The Truth About The Brony Fandom

I have to admit that I agree with a lot of what James said in this video. Don't get me wrong, I still love the parts of this fandom that help produce great fan content, support, and people in general but there's no denying the dark side of our fandom. Granted, this isn't anything new. God knows there's been enough drama in this fandom in the past couple years already to fill up a block on the Soap Network. But, still, what happened to James at this year's BronyCon is just idiotic, to say the least.

I just felt like sharing this video and hearing what other people have to say about it. So..what do the rest of you have to say about this topic? Do you agree with James? Disagree with him? Other thoughts?

Comments

[Wolfie 03]

I'm annoyed at what James had to go through. I value honesty. I may think AJ doesn't do all that much (though I like her as a friend/character) but Honesty is very high on my own priority list. Hearing others backtrack to change what they said or trying to make it worse than what it actually was is really annoying to me.

I do understand that there is a dark side to everything, but seriously? We're the fandom that gets mocked and teased, stared at for liking ponies when it normally wouldn't make sense. (Or at least, that's what I feel like the rest of society is thinking/doing. I get enough of the weird stares and '... just why...?' questions myself, and I work with kids, so you'd think they wouldn't mind as much.) Why are other fans stooping to the level of what the bullies of the world do? Can't we just accept others for who and what they are and not get upset over differing opinions? We're all equals (Ok, not Starlight Glimmer equals, like the CMC Flag Fillies equals). I may never have tried to hide that there is a dark side to the fandom, but I have never been more ashamed of it than at this time........

Maybe other fandoms have similar issues? Is their dark sides also hiding these kinds of easily-wounded, lying fans who are afraid of losing their chance to shout about their feelings without caring about others'? I haven't been in any other fandoms, ever. So I don't know.

[Daring Cammie Do]

Through the entire video, only 2 thoughts went through my mind.

"You're right. Deep down we are just like any other Fandom out there. We try to be special but we're human. No matter what we're just like everyone else."

And

"Heh heh. It looks like Rainbow is trying to ride Twilight."

[MariusIoannesP]

Honestly, I don't quite understand why Bronies are attached to the idea of "Love and Tolerance." From what I understand, the phrase started out as an insult by early anti-Bronies as a mocking summary of what they thought the show was all about. Knowing that, it's not surprising when it's pointed out that Bronies don't really embodied that. Perhaps, it's something we've never really embodied. But then again, throughout history, people having taken on insults as badges of honor. Like in the American Revolution, the term "Yankee" was an insult for the colonists by the British, but it eventually became what we called ourselves as well as the name for the best/worst baseball team in the New York area.

One thing that struck me though was when AnimatedJames lamented that the Brony fandom is just like any other fandom. To that I answered in my mind, "And?" So, what if we're not different from any other fandom. Honestly, we're not that special. The Brony fandom didn't start with the intention of being a better fandom due to some high-minded ideal. It started because a bunch of guys liked MLP. Despite the unorthodox nature of grown men enjoying a cartoon originally intended for young girls, that's basically how every fandom starts out. (I admit, also that the initial backlash it received also makes it unique, but overall, it's not that different.) I think many got the impression of the idealism of the fandom from the idea of "Love and Tolerance."

Honestly, I think "Love and Tolerance" has done more harm than good.

Full disclosure though, I've never been that fond of how the term "tolerance" is bandied about in modern society as the highest of virtues. What is tolerance really? It means, "I don't accept this, but I am willing to allow it to be." Whereas the modern world is like "YOU MUST ACCEPT THIS!" What James suffered was the second form of tolerance when he was expecting the first and true form of tolerance.

[Staying Sic]

this reminds me of a story I have about one of my own friends. Around late 2013, early 14, I introduced one of my friends to the fandom. he got into it pretty quickly. like... REALLY into it. I'm not going to name him, but I will note the things he did. In 8th grade, which was when most of this took place, I was starting to... "discover" Myself. My friend then decided that he was also going to start liking men all of the sudden. along with MLP, and self harm. Yes, two years ago, I was one of those people who would refuse to seek help and lash out on those who gave up trying to help me, and I still regret it because I see now how idiotic it was. Though two of those 3 traits remain with me, all 3 seem to have left my friend completely. He now claims that he is straight, even though I beg to differ, considering I was with him for a short amount of time. He has also left the brony fandom, claiming to never had liked the show in the first place. Either he was doing it for attention at first, or he's saying all this so he can fit in with everyone, who he now acts like. He has changed from an attention seeking psycho, to an acception seeking asshole. This story may not have a point but I just want to give an example how ignorant people can be, bronies or not. I probably left out a lot of details but im tired as fuck.

[Phoenix Nebula]

Finally I'm not the only one who noticed this. I'm still relatively new to the fandom but just recently I'v begun to notice how hypocritical a lot of bronies are. Heck even I'm that way at times but I learn and correct my self. Others tend to make the same mistake over and over again. I agree we were suppose to be the more mature fandom but were not. I think a lot of us needs to take a good long look in the mirror and think about this issue for a while.

[Aoki]

I got into a little spat with a couple of people today due to an author using a "trigger warning." After listening to the video you posted it dawned on me: The fandom is becoming one colossal "trigger warning."

my bad.... that might offend some people....

"content warning"

Oh, but the word "warning" might make some people uncomfortable....

lets go with "Content advisory."

The fandom is becoming one colossal "content advisory."

[Doctor Perseus]

3355804

For one thing, that joke about Applejack being a background pony is stupid.

I completely agree. I like Applejack!

Second, I can take criticism. My preferred type being constructive criticism. As in not just telling me I suck, but why one says so. When soeone leaves a downvote and leaves without a comment, I don't hate the downvote, I hate that they downvoted and didn't even say anything. It's like going up to a performer after a show, flipping them off, and leaving without a word. The least you can do is tell them why. Not commenting when you hit the dislike button also does the author a bit of a disservice since they don't know what they did to deserve the downvote and therefore might not get better. I say might since without a comment, for all the author knows, they got a downvote because of one small part of a chapter.

Bottom line, don't just say a piece of brony art work, story, animation, or whatever sucks, say why it sucks.

Again, couldn't agree more. Constructive criticism is what every artist (whether it be in art, writing, film, music, etc.) wants. That's how we improve. We don't learn anything from someone simply saying "YOU SUCK!" We learn by hearing "I don't like this because..." I can take criticism too. You have to if you're willing to put your work out there. Not every comment on my stories has been positive and that's okay. Some people have put in the time to go into detailed descriptions about why certain elements of my stories didn't work for them. I don't get angry. I thank them for their feedback, learn, and apply what I've learned to my future works.

As far as accepting others, well that's another story. See one can accept others as people, but not some of their values or choices. But people seem to think that unless you agree with everything that a person does, you're being a hater. This goes not just for some in the brony fandom, but also for everyone else. Homosexuality, for example. Unless you agree with everything that a homosexual does, you're considered homophobic. I, myself, don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle choice. I think it's unnatural, but guess what, I'll still respect you as a person. Again, when I say respecting you as a person, I don't mean agreeing with everything you say or do.

I agree with the accepting others part of your argument. I mean, I accept people who don't share my opinions, follow my life choices, or share my beliefs.

However...I really didn't want to get all political but I feel the need to give my thoughts about your example pertaining to homosexuality. No, I'm not about to call you a homophobe or anything like that. A true homophobe, to me, is someone who absolutely despises homosexuals. And you, from what I can tell, are at least respectful to them as people. So I can respect you for that. But as someone who has a few close friends who are homosexual, I do disagree with the statement of homosexuality being a "lifestyle choice".

As far as I'm concerned, no one can choose their sexuality. If they could, why would people choose to have a sexuality that is so commonly looked down upon and hated by a portion of people? Heck, till at least the 1960's, being homosexual could get you lynched in certain parts of America. Even today, there are some countries where, by law, you will be executed for being homosexual. And what about all those poor homosexual teenagers who kill themselves out of fear of not being accepted by their parents? If it were a choice, that'd be like killing yourself because you chose to become a vegetarian (something that is a true lifestyle choice).

Secondly, if it's unnatural, then why are homosexual acts seen in nature? Giraffes, flamingos, penguins, vampire bats, bonobos, and even dolphins (one of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom) have engaged in homosexual acts. In fact, three-quarters of bottlenose dolphins are in same-sex pairings and many of those pairings mate for life.
Example
Example
Example

Sorry for going all political there but I felt that I needed to give my thoughts pertaining to that one example you gave. I'm not attacking you (I apologize if I came off that way) and you're free to disagree with what I've had to say in response. Again, I respect you for at least respecting them as people. As long as you're respectful to homosexuals as people and don't think of yourself as being better than them, then we don't have any problems.

[Doctor Perseus]

3356185

Let me ask you this, why are there Christians in countries where one can, and usually is, killed for being one? Christians in this country are riduculed, so why do they choose to be Christians? I mean, is the only criteria for an action or way of thinking being genetic that the person stands up to adversity? Besides, just because it's natural for some animals to do it, doesn't mean every animal does it. Even then, these are animals. Do you think they have sex because they actually intelligently love each other, no. They do it because they have a huge burst of hormones and need to use their genitals quickly in order to relieve stress. They don't care what gender it is, they only care if they can use their genitals on it. I guarantee if you had two male animals in heat and a female in heat, the males would take turns or fight each other for a chance to have sex with the female every time.

Faith and sexuality are two very different things. Faith, for instance, is based on one's choice to believe in something. You choose to believe what you do based on the personal deductions you make throughout life that shape what you ultimately believe in; whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Atheism, etc. Sexuality is a part of a person like their skin color, natural hair color, natural eye color, the like. You can't change what gender you're attracted to. If you could then you could "be gay" one day and "be straight" another. But that's not how things work. It only really works for bisexual people, who are, obviously, attracted to both genders. When I talk to my homosexual friends, they tell me that, as far back as they can remember, they've been attracted to the same sex and have never been attracted to the opposite sex. I think it's wrong to persecute anyone for their faith or sexuality and I don't condone executions based on either. Moving on to the animals, it actually goes beyond just hormones. For example, homosexual pairings of dolphins that mate for life show great remorse when their partner dies. And homosexual couples of giraffes have been seen staying together in spite of giraffes of the opposite sex being in the vicinity of them.

And if you really want to get technical about what's "natural" and what's "unnatural", let's look at the definition of "natural":

Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.

Well, that rules out cars, computers, airplanes, fast food, candy, governments, houses, etc.

Not every urge is good.

True. Pedophilia is one of them (we'll get to that in a minute). But if homosexuality or bisexuality or any type of sexuality was just an "urge" then why do people develop deep, loving relationships around an "urge"? Why do families (who are just as normal and loving as straight families) form based around an "urge"? Why do couples go through with raising children together based around an "urge"? You can't control who you love.

One other thing. I once heard that some pedophials are trying to get recognized as a sexual preference instead of what it really is, wrong. Should we consider them to be normal and upstanding citizens just because they have urges to do things with the what gets them aroused, aka, little boys and girls? Shoud we spend a crap ton of money trying to prove that pedophilia is genetic and let them argue in courts that they should be allowed to do it with kids as long as the kid is consenting?

Pedophilia is not a sexuality. It's a fetish. Straight people can have fetishes. Homosexual people can have fetishes. Some are fine but there are some that are most definitely wrong. Pedophilia is one of them. It truly is a bad urge. There is no huge movement to legalize child porn because a majority of people recognize it as being morally wrong. That's why we have the concept of "legal age of consent". If someone is below that age, they cannot legally give consent; even if the child is "into it".

Quite recently, on yahoo.com, I saw an article about a dad posting a video with his 4 year old son. The story goes like this. The father explains that his son had accidentally been given two of the same action figures and was allowed to trade it for a different toy. The son chose a Little Mermaid Ariel doll. The father then says that he not only accepts his son for this decision, but any of his life decisions. He said that he will support his son in any life choice the kid makes and even goes as far as to say that he accepts the kid for whatever sexuality he chooses.

Now, what's wrong with that. One, the kid is four. This dad is telling me that he honestly thinks his four year old son is old enough to understand adult concepts like sexuality. Two, THIS KID IS FOUR! Let him have some innocence before you introduce him to the birds and the bees and label him as a sexual preference. Third, WHY THE HELL IS HE LABELING A FOUR YEAR OLD!? I don't think I need to tell you how impressionable kids are. Despite what you think, a kid being called something from such a young age can end up believing that they are what others label them as. The mind, especially at a young age, can be turned to think in any way possible, yes, even homosexuality. And before you say anything about that not being possible because hormones are what make one physically attracted to another, keep in mind that both the mind and body have an effect on each other. A person can feel very depressed for seemingly no reason and later find out that they have extremely low serotonine levels. The mind causes the release of endorphins and other chemicals when certain emotional states are achieved and can have various effects on the body, that includes releasing hormones.

But I digress, the fourth thing wrong about this dad, him accepting any of his son's life choices. He essentailly said that his son is allowed to teach himself his own morals. The dad basically decided not to teach or guide his son at all in moral issues. His son is calling the shots. That is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyy baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!

I saw that video in question and I think you're blowing it a bit out of proportion. Personally, I saw it as a nice sign that we're starting to break down gender stereotypes. Our society seems to be very sexist towards feminine interests. If a woman is seen being athletic, watching football, playing video games, and the like then she's seen as strong, cool, awesome, etc. But if a man is seen knitting, watching MLP, playing with dolls, and the like then he's seen as "girly", weak, strange, etc. That is a huge double standard society has. They're pretty much saying that masculine interests can be universally enjoyed while feminine interests can and should only be enjoyed by women. That is f*cked up. There's nothing wrong with the boy wanting an Ariel doll and I don't think that makes him any less of a boy.

Secondly, as you said, the kid is four. He doesn't understand what the word sexuality even means. He didn't understand what his dad meant by that and thus it's probably not going to leave that much of an effect on him. And the dad wasn't suggesting or enforcing that his son was to become a homosexual. He wasn't labeling his son's sexual preference. The dad was just telling his son that he would support him no matter who he grew up to become in accordance to what is morally right. Obviously, I'm not the dad in question and I can't speak for how he'll raise his children but how the heck did you deduce that he's not going to teach his children any morals or lessons based on him simply stating that he'll let them live their lives and accept them for who they are? He's going to love his son no matter who he's attracted to, he's going to love his son no matter what toys he plays with, etc. He's not encouraging his son to teach himself everything from that age up. As you pointed out, he's four. Of course he's going to need guidance and the dad's not saying that he's not going to help guide his child. He's going to guide his child but he's also going to love him for who he is.

[Doctor Perseus]

3356392
Okay. I think it's clear that neither you nor I are going to change the views of the other so I'm going to end this here. Let's just agree to disagree and let bygones be bygones. I don't want this to continue into some pointless 50-comment back and forth in this comment section.

I apologize for kicking this off through your personal example in the initial comment and for being defensive about this but this is a topic that I am very passionate about. Firstly because, as I said earlier, I am close friends with some wonderful people who happen to be homosexual; and whom I have had many lengthy discussions with pertaining to this topic. And they are quite frankly tired of seeing people label their sexuality as a "fetish", an "urge", or a "lifestyle choice".

Secondly because I tend to be very defensive when people same something questionable pertaining to someone's race, religion, sexuality, nationality, and/or gender.

But you have a right to your political beliefs and I have a right to mine. I may entirely disagree with yours pertaining to this topic and I personally hope for a future where one day homosexual couples will be seen as normally and equally as straight couples but whatever. Believe what you believe. I'll believe what I believe.

Have a nice day and hopefully when we have another discussion it'll be over something less political and divisive. Again, have a nice day.

[Doctor Perseus]

3356744

In the interest of starting a more enjoyable topic, how about I IM you the start of a character vs character debat. How does that sound?

Perfect. Let's just start over and leave this little discussion in the past.

[Evowizard25]

I actually disagreed with the video. While James' experience was bad and there was a general overreaction to it, he seems to forget something important.

It's human nature to be dishonest. While we praise honesty and such, dishonesty is a common trait found in every aspect.

For the most part, it's harmless and lies can be beneficial in some circumstances. It's just that we inadvertently breed the need to lie in ourselves. We're sapient and a lot of us have secrets, or don't want to admit mistakes.

As for this fandom, I don't think that's honestly the case of a big point of contention. I've met more 'aggressive truths' than I have lies. I've been helped in many ways and wouldn't be where I am now if it weren't for the honesty here. Perhaps it's more so a case of Fimfiction having a more 'pleasant' attitude compared to other sites, but still. So I disagree with saying it's a 'brony' problem. It's a human problem.