AU Redesign! · 4:57am Jul 21st, 2014
View on Derpibooru - Original source
So yeah, I was browsing Derpibooru and found this. I love this. I've always liked the classical unicorn design (tall and skinny legs, cloven hooves, feathery fetlocks, lion's tail), but always felt like changing up just the unicorns to look special was a bit of a cop out and showing unfair favoritism. But now I see a way to make it work. Pegasi with feathers instead of fur on ther bodies, but still have mane and tail hair. This creates distinct looks for all three tribes, and helps explain why they were so distrustful of each other in ancient days. Having what was basically an earth pony with a couple of extra body parts doesn't seem that big a deal when compared to something like a Minotaur or a diamond dog or a gryphon or the like. But "well those guys have cloven hooves and a weird tail, and that other ones covered in feathers everywhere" makes them being seperate make more sense.
So yeah I am applying these general design ideas to the Shimmerverse. Although Alicorns look like they do in the canon mane-universe, not like Twilight does in the example. Oh, and also using pudgy Shetland Pinkie because that is just adorable.
I don't believe I made any statements in the story that contradict these new designs, but if I have feel free to point them out! I've always felt that if you are going to do an AU, you might as well stress the A, and using nonstandard designes is one of the ways I intend to distinguish the Shimmerverse.
Actually, in one of her interviews. The original plan was for each of the main characters to have distinct body, but the idea was scraped.
2303504 Yes, but they didn't. Also, they were talking more height and build, not massive tribal wide body distinctions.
I'm confused as to why people would hate on this (as is said on the DA page), personally I like it.
It's well done, and it's just fanart, there's literally no reason for any hate.
But, some of us are just closed minded I suppose. Sad really.
2303593 *looks around* Not seeing any hate right now. Jumping the gun a little?
2303653
Did you read the DA description? About them turning off the comments because of fear of hate?
I mean I like to think that those of us on Fimfiction are open minded, but being a big part of the FoE sub-communiy I know that's not always the case.
I'm not saying this will or even would get any hats whatsoever, but I'm saying the fear of it was enough for the illustrator to disable comments.
2303718 Fear of hate is not the same as receiving hate. If you fear hate for your work, why publish it? Also, if you read a bit closer I found it on Derpibooru, I never went to DA.
Also, there's been no negative reaction on this site to this change so far, yet you're being condemning of others for their negative reactions to the idea, when such reactions haven't even occurred yet.
Also, I wouldn't mind getting some hats. Rather like them. Baseball caps, fedoras, and bowler hats please.
Why did you make Rarity so tall? Oh wait, you didn't make this... Never mind.
Question.
If the tribes are so different, how do traits carry over for inter-tribe breeding? Will traits from one tribe carry over to a child born of another? (Meaning if a Pegasus and an Earth Pony have an Earth Pony child, will they have feathers? Or will an Earth Pony born to an Earth Pony/Unicorn couple have a lion's tail? Thins like that.)
And a big question regarding that...what will Pound and Pumpkin Cake look like?
2511703 What you are talking about is hybrids, and I was planning a blog post about them, but I can give you a rundown of what I've got so far.
First of all, inter tribal breeding usually results in a child of just one tribe. Hybrids are rare, like 1:200 inter tribal births. The most common is called "earth shod", and it makes up 50% of hybrids. This is when earth pony ancestry is highly pronounced in a unicorn or pegasus, resulting in what is basically a mane-verse pony of those tribes. "Feathered" is a term for an earth pony or unicorn that is expressing their pegasus paranetage by having feathers. They make up about 30% of hybrids. 15% of hybrids are "clove", expressing their unicorn side via hooves and tail. The last 5% is a specific type of hybrid technically titled a "Pegasi-Unicorn" (ancient ponies were not clever with names), though they tend to just be called a pegacorn or a pseudo-Alicorn. The image of Twi above gives an example of what they look like, though Twilight herself is not one in this AU.
There's more planned, but that's what I have ironed out so far. I haven't gotten to the twins quite yet.
2511751
Sweet!
So...is there any social stigma regarding hybrids? Not in the sense of "don't make them" but in the sense of "they are targets for discrimination"? I mean, given what you said about inter-tribe distrust being based on how different they looked, I imagine there'd be similar feelings towards the various kinds of hybrids.
Also, are any of the characters we know from the series hybrids?
2511774 And now you've hit a lot of the stuff I'm trying to iron out. Remember this is a post Hearths Warming society by over a thousand years, so inter tribal conflict is very low...at least with the three main tribes, but that's a discussion for another time.
When you consider the fact that inter tribal relationships are about 1:30 (it's rarity is just due to there being more physical appearance hurdles to get over than any social stigma), that would put the hybrid population at roughly 1:6000 ponies. It's entirely possible for ponies to go their whole lives without ever seeing a single hybrid.
To put that in perspective, Manehattan has a population of roughly 1.6 million just like the RL Manhattan, despite supposedly being all of New York. This is because I honestly don't see the ponies as having had as big a population boom as we have had, nor have they come anywhere near our accelerated population curve. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, look up World Population Milestones on Wikipedia.) Anyway, if there was a perfect distribution of 1:6000 in that population of about 1,600,000, we wind up with a grand total 266/267 hybrids, depending on rounding. And that is for a major pony city. To even hit 300 we'd probably have to throw in the surrounding towns and villages, and even then that might be a stretch.
As to your question, the only hybrid I have fully decided upon is Alula as a Pegasi-Unicorn. She was the animation error alicorn from Lesson Zero, and I loved her so much in the Lunaverse that I decided I want to import her. Other than that I have not decided on a single hybrid, not even an OC. Like I said, I am still working everything out on how they are viewed, and that include things like feathered unicorn vs earth shod unicorn, what are the stereotypes? There are consequences to this sort of world building AU decisions, and one of them is a lot of legwork.
2512340
Well, I'll help in any way I can.
And that is by posing questions regarding this altered world that you wouldn't necessarily think of on your own that open a whole can of worms of issues to explore.
For example, mules. Those are donkey/horse hybrids, or in the case of MLP donkey/pony hybrds. However, they're also sterile. How is that effected by this new 'hybrid' situation? If one of a mule's parents is a hybrid, what does that do to the resulting mule?
Also, given the physical differences in tribe - and that apparently mostly being accepted - how does that effect pony interactions with other species?
And if unicorns are generally the tallest of pony species - excepting alicorns - does that mean some arrogant unicorns - or those who learned to behave from the arrogant and don't think about it - treat other pony races as though they were childish, intentionally or unintentionally literally looking down on them? (Then again, with chubby Shetland Pinkie, they actually have a point about childishness...even if she's almost chibi! KAWAII!)
2512621 I hadn't considered mules, thank you for that. As for tribal relations with various species, well...have you ever played The Legend of the Five Rings RPG? It has one of my favorite systems for sorting this stuff out short and sweet.
In L5R there are numerous Clans; 9 great clans and about as many minor clans. With the opinions of 17 others to cover for each Clan, it seems like it would take up a lot of space. Instead, they did something brilliant. While there is in depth looks at how the clans interact, each Clan's views are summed up early in their chapter. On the first two pages of any clans chapter, it lists a one or two sentence summery of that clan's views of the other clans in side margins, and lists Minor Clan's as its own item. The end result is five-seven sentences written in the side margins of pages featuring a pretty picture and a grand, simplified introduction to the broad idea of the Clan. Matching it at 5 Clans per page by treating Minor Clans as one entity also helped out via symmetry.
Anyway, getting off topic, I've found that getting a one or two sentence summery of the relationships really shows you have a grasp of the way they interact and can boil it down to a quick idea. As such I am working on simple charts like that to work out race relations, and have broken ponies up into tribes because there is a difference in perceptions there. Most other species don't think of them as "ponies", but ponies, pegasi, and unicorns. Most other species literally see ponies as multiple species, the differences are too great for them to wrap their heads around.
I am a massive Crab Clan fan, and as an example here are a couple of quotes from them over the years.
Crane: They fight with money and words, not weapons and strength. Who truly has more honor?
Dragon: They sit on their mountain and contemplate the world. Let them stay there.
Lion: The Emperor's right hand, they guard the land from our mortal enemies.
Mantis: They rose to greatness by their own hands. Respect them.
Phoenix: They preach peace and enlightenment, yet many of our darkest problems come from them.
Scorpion: If they say to watch out behind you, guard your front.
Spider: The offspring of our eternal enemy. Do not trust them.
Unicorn: Our brothers in war, fellow outcasts of polite society. And like us, one of the greatest armies in this world.
2512744
I've never played that game, but that method of summarizing sounds like a really clever tool.
So here's my question. If the other races see the ponies as three races living as one, what are their opinions of it? And what are pony opinions of other races? And does each tribe view other races differently? (I presume Pegasi would see griffons and other aerial sentients/sapients very differently from how Unicorns or Earth Ponies would, and vice versa.) Also, given that the alicorns are the pony leaders, how do their behaviors - or in this case, Celestia's behavior - in the court of politics reflect the differing opinions of the three tribes under her banner?
And given how vastly different the pony tribes are, how does that effect their views of the sapient creatures who are domesticated, like cows and sheep? And what about ponies of one tribe who choose to live as another (easy example, Fluttershy, who is a Pegasus but lives in what is unmistakably an Earth Pony style cottage on the ground and more in tune with earth nature and other animals than the currents of the air)?
And given what you've said about hybrids...what about ponies breeding with non-ponies? Is it possible? Is the result mule-types, who are sterile? If it happens, does it cause political or social problems?
2512876 Like I said, legwork.
2512907
Meaning you haven't come up with those answers yet? Or you want to wait and reveal those answers in story?
Huh. I like, actually. It does make the Hearth Warming Tale make a bit more sense, expecially considering how long the conflicts between the tribes would have likely lasted. The cloven hooves on the unicorns are a bit odd though. The original artist says it's the make them closer to goats... does that mean goats have magic as well?
*shrugs*
Bodywise, would pegasi be totally feather covered or a mixing of it? Mostly I asked because I've seen another artist's style that mixes their coat, mostly feathers on the back, forelegs and chest, mostly fur on the underbelly and flanks, if I recall correctly.
In relation to alicorns, would Twilight eventually loose her clooven hooves? Or retain them, showing her origin has an ascended unicorn? I suppose Cadence would keep her feathered coat as well if that was the case...
Pinke... no. Stop being so adorable. Please. It's bad for my health. You too Fluttershy.
Oh! I think the fluttershy thing came from a combination of the fact that she's most often cringing or ducking her head and the fact that she was taller than everypony else in her cutiemark flashback.