Interview: Ether Echoes' Through the Well of Pirene · 7:59pm Oct 19th, 2013

Through the Well of Pirene is HiE done right, and I’m very proud to see it on Equestria Daily. In this interview, Ether Echoes explains what makes it different, and just how he managed to write one that impressed two EqD pre-readers and Seattle’s Angels.

1. What inspired you to write Through the Well of Pirene? How does it differ from the usual HiE story?

I've always had a fascination for the idea of sending a human into Equestria or sending a pony to Earth. Back when I first got into the fandom, though, I ran into a number of HiE fics which really burned me on the idea – it seemed like every fic I came across was bland, ludicrous, derivative, or simply poorly written. There's a forest of self-inserts out there, whole deserts dotted with 'brony in Equestria' garbage, and more 'human turns into a canon character' fics than you can shake a pony tail at.

I'm sure there's good examples out there, but I've never really found one that hit every note I've wanted. Article 2 is probably the only one I didn't instantly dislike, but it was about military character (overdone) who was hyper-violent (chucking ponies around like nothing, somehow) and featured some questionable behavior on the part of the canon characters (too many to list.)
Thus, to a very large extent, I was inspired to write a Human in Equestria fic because I thought I could do one better.

Pirene differs in a few ways I find to be substantial. First of all, I took the effort to not merely develop a cast, but to develop a plot that was intimately tied to the idea of humans and ponies sharing a history together. Moreover, I wanted the plot to be worthy of young adult fiction (or even a semi-decent paperback fantasy novel.) Second is that I make sure everyone has something to learn, that everyone has something at stake. This isn't a human blundering into Equestria and their experience of a static world, this is me going step-by-step in showing how a person should adapt to new circumstances and a serious plot that's been planned out from the beginning to tie the events together.

I love fish-out-of-water stories, so I give that primacy with the ponified Daphne and Amelia, but ultimately that can't be the entire purpose of your HiE story, or you're just retreading old ground.

It's also important to mention my personal positive inspirations for Pirene. Top of the list are: Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, and Narnia. Each of these inspired some critical aspect of the seed that became Pirene, even if it is no longer always clear what belongs where.

2. What were you aiming for with Daphne and Amelia? How did you distinguish them from the run-of-the-mill HiE characters (e.g. self-inserts)?

With Daphne, the 'primary' protagonist if you will, she was always intended to be the bored socialite with a deeper past than even she understood. Her boundless imagination is a source of embarrassment to her in the first chapter, but it quickly becomes clear that it defines her entire existence in ways she's tried very hard to suppress. In that way, Daphne is meant to a bright light that has been blinded – there's a curtain between Daphne and her inner self, and every so often it shines through. There's bitterness to her, but there's also a great deal of warmth and compassion.

Amelia, on the other hand, is a bright light who has never been dimmed, and indeed has never seriously encountered limits. Where Daphne's luster has been dirtied, bruised, and grounded, Amelia knows no limitations. She was meant to be a foil for her sister, even if they spent pretty much the entire story apart. Where Daphne struggles every day with being an alien creature, Amelia revels in it. Where Daphne has to fight her own inhibitions and worry about consequences, Amelia explodes from event to event with atomic force.

It is worth noting that this strength is also Amelia's weakness. While her willfulness may have propelled her out of one form of danger, it lands her in others, and her reaction to circumstances forms a key part of the narrative.

It's worth mentioning at this point that I have a third protagonist, who is only introduced in Chapter 7. Leit Motif, Daphne's long lost friend, is damaged goods like Daphne, only she never had the burning passion within her that allowed Daphne to at least remain functional. Ironically, she is the only one not born human – depressed pones are adorable, though.

The key to making a good HiE character is to make a good character. Tautologies aside, the main reason HiE characters fall short is that they're usually one-dimensional, are poorly established, and rarely capture audience interest.

There's one other thing I did that I think makes a big difference here: make the characters self-aware without it being a self-referential fic. Daphne, Leit Motif, and – to a lesser extent – Amelia are all aware that the world around them is a little strange at times, but they aren't simply reacting. They're planning, thinking, trying to figure things out. I'm not doing that just for the audience's sake – I'm considering how characters would realistically react to their given circumstances.

All three characters – though again, Amelia to a lesser extent, see her characterization as a somewhat wild and impulsive character – are also aware of their own flaws, and are working to overcome them, even if they need a prod in the right direction.

3. If character is who a person is, characterization is how you show us. In the early chapters, what did you do to quickly characterize Daphne and Amelia, and make them immediately interesting and likeable?

In a word? Comedy.

If it weren't for the fact that Daphne and Amelia are occasionally quite silly, they would both be pretty insufferable. Daphne is a reforming social clique girl and Amelia is a little brat, while both of them are too smart for their own good. Even Leit Motif, who is about as cheerful as a bag of knives, has moments where schadenfreude cuts into her serious narrative and leavens the mood.

There's more to it, of course. In Chapter 1, not only do Daphne and Amelia play off their environment and each other in a somewhat comedic fashion, but you get to see insights into who they are and what they're about by how they act and react to events. Sure, Daphne can be a little shallow, but you quickly learn that there's a lot of repressed passion and creativity in her that's bursting at the seams. She laments for a friend she believes never existed, and as the story goes on she gathers allies and finds her own strength again.

Amelia, on the other hand, gets to revel in her own cleverness in a way that Daphne has lost. She demonstrates her latent intellect and passionate nature early on, but that's not really what draws people to her, I think. Amelia is not only clever and quick to grasp events surrounding her, but she's subversive as well, never quite looking at things the same way other people do. The key is not to make a character like this irritating – it's far too easy to make a shallow character with boilerplate 'odd' tendencies, rather than a living breathing character who has an alarmingly different point of view.

Also, I'm going to throw the audience a couple bones:
Some people have noticed that Amelia's vocabulary, and particularly her internal narration, is alarmingly precocious for an eight year-old girl. This is due to two factors:

1) As she points out herself at one point, her reading comprehension level is well above her grade. This isn't really as uncommon as people think – a lot of kids, even in our abysmal educational system, start reading early and well. This helps them develop in ways that others might not. Consider the Cutie Mark Crusaders, who are of her age, and their combination of dim childish idiocy and brilliant precocious talent.

2) The parts of her precociousness that can't be explained by being ahead of herself isn't a mistake on my part. It's foreshadowing. And that's all I'll say on that matter~!

4. I love the dialogue in this story. Not only does each character have their own unique voice, but it changes depending on who they're speaking to. Daphne to Marcus is different from Daphne to Amelia, etc. Do you have any advice for writing dialogue? And how do you make it funny?

It's important to discuss exactly what their voices are, which also aids tremendously in the construction of the the first person narrative as well, which leads to a very specific piece of advice:

Give each character a specific tone.

Daphne has a somewhat sardonic, mid-range voice that's always pointing out problems and seeking solutions. She likes to dig deep and solve problems.

Leit Motif has a husky, deep voice that's very feminine, but in a contemplative, soul-searching way. She analyzes and picks things apart. She does this not for any specific purpose, but because dissection allows her to process events in a way she finds easiest to digest. At the same time, she's sensitive and emotionally vulnerable.

Amelia sparks. She's got a little girl's voice, sure enough, but it's higher than it needs to be, because Amelia's brain is working faster than her mouth does. When they come, they erupt from her in a torrent that often tumbles words one atop the other. As her sentences go on, they acquire a higher pitch because she's trying to cram in yet more information.

The other part of your question, how they interact with others, is a little more complicated. The key is that these individual voices, in combination with their histories, informs me of their personality. From that, I extrapolate what they're thinking about at any given time by putting myself in their shoes.
When you're writing any sort of character, you need to get into their head, simulating their senses, memories, and emotions to get an idea of what they're feeling, and this is doubly appropriate when they're dealing with another character!

When Daphne is interacting with Naomi, she's seeing her past history with her. Naomi and Daphne have been friends since they were little girls, and they say things to one another that they'd never say to anyone else, simply because they trust and understand each other so well.
When Daphne is addressing Marcus, the shards of their recent breakup are cutting at both of them. They're united in a shared purpose, but they're not willing to see the good in one another.

Leit's interactions are always tinged with jealousy and loneliness. She wants to crawl back into her shell, but no one is letting her, and worse, there are these strangers coming to take away all the things that she loves!

Amelia, now, I always have to remember that when she views the world, she's looking for cracks to fit herself into. Daphne tries to pull situations apart to solve them and Leit Motif so she can understand them. but when Em pulls something apart, it's so she can worm through. She's an explorer at heart, far more so than her sister Daphne, whose imagination is great but whose caution limits her.

Daph and Leit may listen to someone to understand and empathize with them, but Amy is listening for information she can use. Sometimes, this is information she can use against them. Look forward to Chapter 10, where some of this will be displayed very clearly.

5. You have some interesting lore in your story: the goblin city, the Morgwyn, the enchanted river, this mythical Golden Bridle. How do you come up with this stuff, and how do you work it into your story effectively? Do you have any worldbuilding advice for people?

This brings us back to my influences, and I would add to the earlier literary/movie influences (Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Narnia) my passionate love for mythology. If you look up the word 'Pirene,' you will see that she is a nymph of a spring (or well) which is a key part of the legend of Bellerophon, whence came Pegasus. The Golden Bridle comes from the same legend, and is a magical gift that allowed Pegasus to be controlled and mounted.

That's really not the end of it, though. I am a historical enthusiast, and particularly the history and practice of magic throughout the ages. Pirene is embedded not only with mythology and literature, but a measure of occult lore as well. Consider, if you will, the imagery that Daphne experiences in Chapter 5: A Whole New World, and wonder for a minute just how accidental all of this actually is. Consider the nature of the Wand King and the stained glass windows in his throne room in Chapter 6: The Stage.

Ah, but that's not all! I'm also very found of faerie stories, particularly the old, authentic ones, or best-try modern recreations thereof. The Goblins derive a lot from changeling myths, and the Morgwyn in particular draws on notions of a shadowy hunter that always delivers what it promises – yet, at what cost? Things being generally 'enchanted' are a central part of this mythos, and I aim to capture that.

There's also another bit I'd like to point out:

Internal history

You can really see the Labyrinth influences in the goblin city, but that's only a portion of it. They're a bit of a fantasy pastiche, admittedly, but what makes the goblin city feel real is the fact that I know what the goblins are, where they come from, what they are doing, and why they are doing it.

That river, the one that, despite its gaping loopholes, bars humans from Equestria? That's derived in part from the river outside Rivendell, which Elrond could command to protect his city from attack. It has its own specific history and purpose. The Bridle and the Veil are an intimate part of the human-pony connection that astute readers should pay attention to!

While I'm in the habit of throwing bones... There are three major villains in this fic, just thought you should know~!

6. Another pre-reader said that TtWoP has some of the best atmosphere he's ever read in the fandom. When Daphne is in the forest, and Amelia is in the goblin city, it feels real. How do you do it?

I'd actually refer you back to the bit on character voices and my inspirations for this story and say that the points addressed there are a good start.

You need to be able to put yourself in a character's head and understand the nature and history of your environment. Like everything else here, though, there is always more to it.

Generating atmosphere is probably one of my favorite things to do as an author (you know, on top of all those other things I love.) This is also probably the hardest one for me to convey in simple terms. Atmosphere is created not merely by the voice you're using, but, for lack of a better term, the music.

When I put myself in mind for a scene, one where the emotion and vibe is meant to be conveyed in a more subtle fashion than description, I have to immerse myself in the environment. At that point, I start putting it to a sound track of sorts. I can't always use external music/songs to help me, either, because it has to be very internal, extremely unique to the scene. It doesn't help that I'm tone deaf, anyway, so my internal soundtrack is usually more helpful anyway~!

I do think of it in terms of orchestral composition, though. When you're building up tension, you need to start sawing at people's nerves. When a scene calls for awe or elevated comprehension, you need a soaring theme. If you want to punctuate events and leave a lasting impression, you need a certain finality.

In one of my other fics, Them, there comes a time when it seems as if the hero, Rainbow Dash, has failed. She's grievously injured, and she's falling from the sky. I used short, pointed sentences separated by paragraphs, bringing what had been a blow-by-blow narrative to quick, crushing ends. I varied my use of language, making it seem as if hope was lost without ever saying so. When she refused to give up, I gave the sentences a dogged note of determination, but tinged with hints of hopelessness.

I use this same idea all the time in Pirene, and if I had the skill I'd put it all to a theme.

That's how I think I get my atmosphere. Maybe some sharp-eyed literary critic will correct me on that. I'd actually point to GrassandClouds2 as an author on FimFic who seems to be using the same technique. I certainly feel it when I read his work.

7. What did you do to make the goblin city seem like a real part of Equestria? Like it's always been there, and has its own people and history every bit as real as the ponies?

Isn't it funny when you ask this question, how in a sense this is the most OC part of the entire fic?

Consider for a minute: not only do I throw a human, or even a cast of humans, into Equestria, but I bring forth an entire species and whole worlds outside either planet! Who the heck does something like that?

Even before the entire plot of Pirene had crystallized in my mind, the goblins were there. When I supposed that Equestria was a world apart from Earth, I knew that it wouldn't be the only world. I knew that these worlds were far apart in spirit, with barriers that are shockingly close when you think about them, but which the inhabitants never approach. Equestria's barriers are within the Everfree Forest, lethally dangerous and hard to navigate. Earth's version of the Everfree is safer, but very few people ever find their way to other worlds, and those who do often don't return – devoured by monsters, the River, or simply lost and unable to come home.

The goblins and their city fit into Equestria because they fit into the wider narrative I have placed Equestria in. They are the outcasts, the Roma of the worlds, who fit into the cracks and hidden places. Goblins are everywhere because they can blend in so well.

More specifically, the goblin city does itself possess more than a little of the whimsy that fuels Equestria. Goblins are a little rough, but they have a good-natured camaraderie about them that fits the aesthetic of Equestria extremely well. Their lives are a little silly, but they're silly creatures in a way, ruled by strange magic and operating under strange rules. In a large sense, they bridge the gap between Equestria and Earth – appropriate for creatures with a toe across the line in either land.

That's a running theme in this interview, you may be noticing – create a deep backstory and let it shine through your work. Don't infodump; let it reveal itself bit-by-bit, and people will reward you.

I'd say look forward to Amelia's upcoming chapters. Not only is she going to explore goblin history, but she's going to be visiting one of their most important cities and crossing grounds, with friends both new and familiar to us.

I just completed a huge amount of work putting together a setting bible for Pirene. It helped to solidify a number of things which had previously been uncertain.

8. Do you have any advice on how to write a good first person narrative?

As for a first person narrative, remember that there is a certain level of... conceit might be the best way to put it, especially with past tense. It demands that the narrator remember events to an alarming degree of detail and yet not hint too much about what is to come. It offers challenges because you can't get out in order to look at someone else's head. There are times where I would have found it extremely useful to show an event neither Daphne nor Amelia could have seen. I have to restrain myself and try to hint in creative ways instead.

At the same time, this is the ideal way to dig into the head of a character. If you don't overdo it, you can really settle readers into the narrative and get them engaged in the characters.

Really, though, if you're going to write first person, make sure your perspective character is someone interesting to live in. They don't need to be nice, brilliant, or even very functional, just a fascinating character of their own accord. We can forgive a lot of weirdness for a character we like.

9. What part of the story has been the hardest to write, so far?

I'd have to say Leit Motif's parts. She was a difficult character to get into.

A lot of this difficulty, actually, was in dealing with the advice of separate prereaders. There was at least one prereader (a personal friend of mine) who thought I was going exactly the wrong direction, but I knew I had to ignore his advice this time. I'm glad I did, because the result was very fulfilling for me personally and for many of the readers. His advice has been very helpful in other places, of course; Leit is just a difficult character.

In a way, this is a reflection of something I find generally hard: starting. Not so much planning and the like, but the first few words of any given piece is always the most difficult. This is because, to a large extent, the events of a chapter may be known to me, all of the characters may be known, but the exact flow and pace of the chapter is lost until I've had a chance to sit on it and really feel it.

Leit Motif was hard because she was a new, very different voice, and also the star of one of two of the most emotionally powerful scenes in the fic. I had to go over them again and again to hit the right notes.

10. Do you have any advice for authors trying to get published, or trying to get onto Equestria Daily?

Yes! So very yes.

A few things, in fact, permit me to itemize them:

1) Have an idea and plot it out before writing it. You don't need to know everything in exquisite detail ahead of time – there are parts of Pirene that only revealed itself to me after I had started. Amelia, for example, was both younger and had a lot less agency, even though her role was very similar. Though the climax was always clear to me, many parts of the ending and the events leading up to it had to be shaken out as I went along. Having a strong idea of a plot and narrative structure is crucial to writing a good story, though.

2) Crack down on yourself and produce, even if something isn't working. Sometimes, finishing something down the line helps you to go back and fix things that were wrong in the first place. This is generic advice, but it's how I've written a chunk of a novel instead of just a few pages.

3) Be willing to revise things. I don't do this nearly as much as a friend of mine, but, then, I tend to know what's right with a story the first time. The trick is refining it to the right standards, which brings me to the single most important piece of advice:

4) Get a good editor and stick with him or her. I found Morning Angles and he has been utterly crucial. I could have finished Pirene without him, because I have a strong and consistent vision, but I work at my best when I have someone who is willing to go the distance with me. Not only does he fix my errors, but he allows me to bounce ideas off him and refine them into something even better. He works with me, not against me, like some editors I've seen. He'll tell me when I'm doing something wrong, but he gets why I make those errors and he'll suggest ways to do things differently. I can't emphasize enough how that's made Pirene thrive. He checks over every sentence, and it's not done until it's done.

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