The Twilight Whipping Scene · 1:32pm Jul 8th, 2013
I just finished a round of self-googling as we fanfic writers with over-inflated egos are wont to do (or maybe it's just me). During this particular session, I've discovered that there appear to be people who have read Breaking Point who believe that Terrato had Twilight publicly whipped simply for disagreeing with him.
I am just flabbergasted. Is this a prevalent opinion? Is that scene, or even that entire chapter, constructed in such a manner that readers are inclined to believe that Terrato had Twilight whipped simply because he didn't like her, or because she disagreed with him? I'm really curious about this. I was iffy with including that scene when I wrote it down. I included it because I thought that it did add some characterization.
Now, I don't over-explaining within the fic and I also don't like explaining outside it. "Word of God" is not a concept I agree with. A writer's intentions and interpretations are no truer than the other interpretations that readers can derive from the text, which is why writers should always be careful with what they write. Still, for this scene, I will share my thoughts. I'm not trying to negate how others read the scene, I just want to throw my hat into the ring. Maybe I do need to reconstruct that scene or even remove it. Right now, however, I am firmly convinced that it stays as it is. I'm placing spoiler tags because there are those readers who do not want the writer's explanations to enter their reading of the fic and I respect the desire to do so.
Now, it is true that Terrato, at this point, was very upset with Twilight. In his mind, this pony just made his dearest sister cry which, to him, was a very heinous crime. Still, readers seem to forget that he was not punishing Twilight. He was punishing Vanguard Clash for revealing information about the Barrier Lands to a chosen. Say what you will about how unjust that whole setup is to begin with, but Terrato laid down a law and he expected that those who violated that law be punished. He even had Vanguard recite that law. Twilight Sparkle was not included in this round of punishments because she already received hers from Celestia. Terrato was simply doing the same for his side of the equation. Twilight Sparkle chose to intercede for Vanguard (as did Luna). Terrato could have simply said "no" and hanged Vanguard anyway, but he didn't. In the end, he allowed Twilight to intercede (yes, he did not allow his sister to be whipped, you may have noticed that he tends to play favorites) which resulted in her being whipped. The public flogging is a compromise as far as he was concerned. Yes, it is also true that Terrato doesn't like Twilight Sparkle and he took the opportunity to have her whipped, the opportunity she herself provided him, but that doesn't negate what he intended to do at the start of the whole thing. It was, at the end of the day, a mercy.
I included this scene to show a few things. One, Terrato's insistence on following through with his laws. Two, his willingness to bend them. Three, his dislike for Twilight. Four, Twilight's willingness to take on a whipping to save somepony's life. Five, Vanguard's willingness to face consequences. I also included it because I didn't want readers to think that Twilight got punished for breaking a law while Vanguard got away scot-free. I could be wrong, but I still think it's an important scene to include.
A whipping for Twilight just for disagreeing with Terrato? I don't remember off hand what I thought when it first happened, but that isn't my long term impression of that scene at all.
My impression when reading that scene was that Terrato was doing that to punish Vanguard Clash, and that whipping Twilight not only worked towards that goal, but also helped him let out some of his frustration with Twilight – something that goes much deeper than she merely disagreeing with him.
It was pretty obvious that its NOT Terrato punishing Twilight, as you said she herself butted in.
And then he even allowed V.Clash to take the rest of "her" punishment along with his if i remember right.
If the goal was just to punish twilight he wouldnt do that i think.
But there will always be people who interpret something differently.
Did people seriously think that?
It was pretty much explicitly stated, if I recall correctly, that Twilight was choosing to take some punishment to save Vanguard.
Definitely keep the scene in for three reasons.
One, because it's actually pretty clear, and there's no need to remove it.
Two, don't be a George Lucas! When you create something, and people read it, you can't just show up later and change it. Well, you can, but you shouldn't. No matter what you change, it will be 'ruining it'. People have already experienced it one way, and that makes it the 'correct' way, so no matter what your change actually is, it will instantly be 'wrong'.
Three, though it kind of ties into two, you can't just bow to the whims of readers. Look, I know you appreciate that people enjoy your work, but I'm gonna have to be brutally honest here. We, all the readers of your story, would be terrible at writing it. Not to say that all your readers are bad writers, but it's your story. No one can write your story but you. When you start incorporating every little change the readers whine for, the story suffers for it.
Anyway, that's just my two cents on the matter.
Besides those reasons, and on a more personal note, I also just really liked the scene. I thought it was a very powerful moment, and a true testament as to not only the brutality of the border lands and Terrato, but also how Twilight was going to go through things she never could have imagined before. Sure, she couldn't exactly handle it at the time, but she was only going to become stronger, and the whipping was far from the worst thing she would go through.
Or at least that's how I interpreted the scene, if I'm remembering right.
Personally, I'm really not sure how people came to that interpretation. What you explained was pretty clear to me from the story itself.
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What this guy said!
I couldn't have said it better myself
Those people who said that are stupid, and need to re-read that chapter. That's not what I read happen at all. How the hell did they come to that conclusion...?
Like I said under my fanart for that very scene, It's one of my favorite and more defining moments of the story. It clearly shows what Twilight is willing to do for her friend and how convince she is that she's right. It was her decision, not Terrato's and like it was said before, I think people who think that it all happened only because Terrato hated her should read that scene again.
and I also google myself
I don't see how people ever got that idea. Perhaps they were just skimming rather than really reading it. I like that scene as it is a very big moment for Twilight sticking up for those she cares about and willing to take part in a punishment just to spare someone else the pain. Terrato notices this as well and part of the reason he gives her the chance is to see just what she is willing to do for others.
This alone shows that Terrato wasn't simply whipping her for disagreeing with him at all. Terrato is most impressed with ponies who stand their ground and don't back down. That includes standing their ground before him. Twilight is later seen to have figured this out when she asks Terrato about the rebellions.
Also let's not forget that Luna attended to both Vanguard and Twilight afterward which, while expected, is not something that's done for every legionaire under the whip I'm sure. In short, I think the scene is very important and does not need to be altered or worse, taken out of the story at all.
I loved that chapter, but yes, it did sort of come off as Terrato punishing Twilight out of spite, despite all the logical evidence to the contrary. Not for disagreeing with him, mind you, but I couldn't help but imagine him being very smug about the fact he gets to hurt her and wiggle out of direct responsibility for it.
It's a side effect of how you write Terrato. For such an "ancient, wise and majestic ruler" archetype, he's being an incredibly petty asshole every time Twilight is concerned. She displayed incredible moral strength from the beginning of the story. Refused to live a lie. Gave up everything she had for nothing but the promise of a violent death in a forgotten wasteland, surrounded by ponies who hate her guts simply for being born into a happier world. Suffered worse than most of the natives.
And what does she get for it? Terrato can't even keep his mouth shut and is demeaning, belittling and ridiculing her at every opportunity. For what? Making his precious big sister cry when she refused to take part in her big, fat lie and let half of the nation suffer so the other half could live in blissful ignorance? I think Terrato is just bitter because even though Twilight loved Celestia more than anyone, she still went and did what he never had the strength to do - defied Celestia when she insisted on staying in the wrong.
See, I haven't read the last three chapters yet, so I'm not up to date with any of Terrato's possible character development, but his attitude towards Twilight was a major issue I had with the story. He did seem to mellow a tiny bit when he admitted to himself he envied Celestia such a faithful student, but overall it felt like his attitude would never change, if anything it seemed to actually get *worse* over time. That gets old fast, and over the course of several hundred thousand words I have to say I'm properly fed up with it.
I don't know how people could have gotten that impression from what was written. I took it just as you intended for it to come across. I personally liked the whipping post scene. I thought it helped define the characters of Terrato and Vangaurd. Don't change anything.
I find it a bit strange that some readers would misinterpret Twilight being whipped as the result of merely disagreeing with Terrato.
I mean if Terrato was truly that petty he would have just had Vanguard hanged. Letting Twilight suffer from the knowledge that her meddling got one of her friends killed, would have been way more punishing than any whipping could hope to be.
Long story short I think the whole whipping scene works. As several readers have already commented it not only stands out as one of the most memorable scenes from the first novel, but it also showcases how far Twilight character has developed up to that point.
Wasn't the whole whipping incident because Twilight was being insubordinate? She's in the Legion now, discipline is a very important thing to have and I thought that Twilight needed to learn that.
"If you can't get them to salute when they should salute and wear the clothes you tell them to wear, how are you going to get them to die for their country?” -Patton
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Really, the details kind of get lost in the fact that Terrato is a dick.
Liked the scene; liked Terrato, thought it made perfect sense and (not to sound creepy) really saw it as a relationship building thing for Vanguard and Twilight and convinced me you were shipping them.