Star Trek · 3:51am Jun 22nd, 2013
I've mentioned it here and there before, but before I was a brony -- before I was anything else, really -- I was a Trekkie. I grew up watching Next Generation, and later discovered the Original Series. Didn't much care for TOS, but I love the Kirk-era films (and the Picard-era ones too, of course).
There was a heart to the old film series that the reboot is really lacking, in my opinion. The original films were character-driven dramas that happened to take place in space; the reboot films are summer action movies that happen to take place in space.
I'm rewatching Wrath of Khan tonight while I do other work, and I'm struck over and over by the realization that the two sides of the Trek series are so different. What audience today would sit through Kirk and McCoy idly bantering about how the old captain's eyes are giving out but he's allergic to the standard treatment, so he'll just have to wear 19th-century antique bifocals instead? And the writing, the characterization! McCoy does more than grimace at the camera and bite off every line he delivers in an angry Southern drawl.
Kirk: "I would not presume to debate you."
Spock: "That is wise."
McCoy: [as they're preparing to beam down to unknown coordinates] "Go? Where are we going?"
Kirk: "Where they went."
McCoy: "Suppose they went nowhere?"
Kirk: "Then this will be your big chance to get away from it all."
And as always, I love the old model work. Something was lost, I think, in the move to all-CGI starships and space shots.
(There's a funny anecdote associated with Wrath of Khan that I can never resist telling, especially to my poor long-suffering Filly, who's heard it all before and couldn't care less. Apologies if you've heard it before. You see, at the end of Wrath of Khan, Spock gives his life to save the ship and its crew, and somehow, decades before the Internet was around to be obsessed with such things, the fact that Spock was going to die in Wrath of Khan was leaked to the public, ruining the gravity and emotional impact of the moment. So they wrote in a scene at the beginning of the film, where all of the major bridge crew except Kirk appear to die in an attack, later revealed to be a simulated mission. So right at the very beginning, audiences sat back and rolled their eyes and said to themselves, "That's what I heard about? Okay, fine, business as usual." There's even a line in the next scene, poking fun: Kirk is waiting for a set of doors to open; when they do, Spock is revealed to be standing there in perfect health waiting for him, and Kirk wryly says, "Aren't you dead?" Spock quirks an eye, the audience laughs and relaxes, and then gets punched in the gut in the final act when he really does die in a heroic suicide.)
Ahem. Now get off my lawn.
That... is pretty cool.
) but the movies do sound quite good.
Never watched much Trek (does anyone call it that? Probably not.
1159922
"Trek" is fine with me! And some of the films are on Netflix streaming, if you have it, though not all of them. Wrath of Khan is, if you felt like taking that dive.
1159934 Ah don't got me no Netflix...
But my friend Michael does!
Maybe we could put it on next time we're all over there.
Explains the "47"
I've long since seen all the old movies, but I had never heard that Wrath of Khan anecdote before. Interesting.
[[Caveat lector: There be spoilers past this point.]]
I've seen the latest Trek movie. It did not feel me with joy. I left the theater, stopped, glanced at the night sky, screwed up my face, and let out a mighty bellow: "LINDELOF!!!"
Structurally it is an action movie that, as you say, takes place in space. And if that was it, then fine. I had long since gotten used to having disappointments like that.
But what got me is how goddamn stupid the movie is. Nothing makes sense. Nothing. I'm not just talking about the inconsistencies with Trek lore[1], fine the writers clearly do not care one whit, and I'm not talking about the abuses of science[2], the writers care about that even less. No, I'm talking about the basic plot of the movie. Nobody's motivation makes a lick of sense. Khan's plan, in particular, if you try to work it out makes no sense whatsoever. He's depending on people blindly obeying certain orders while utterly defying others, and there's no way that he could possibly know unless he has the off-screen capability to enter a Spice Trance[3]. And if he can see the future, how is he so easily fooled?
When the previous Khan wanted people to act against all sense and reason and totally out of character he stuck a Ceti eel into their ear. This one merely has to rely on truly wretched screenwriting.
So... yeah. Nerdrage all the way. I wont even go into how the merciless ripoff of Wrath of Khan in the last twenty minutes was (a) horribly executed (b) so not earned (c) has plot holes you could drive a Borg cube through[4] (d) has approx. one seven-billionth of the emotional impact of the original.
[1] Qo'noS is not that close. Unless time travel magically disappeared about half the galaxy it is in no way close enough for the plot (pause for sour laughter) of the film.
[2] At least there was no Red Matter. *shudder*
[3] Actually that might have redeemed the movie a little bit. LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!
[4] You need his blood. So clearly you have to beam down and have a goddamn fistfight. Nothing else would do. There's all manner of augment-sicles on-board, but no, you need his blood and his alone. And you have to fistfight for it. Just shooting him wouldn't work for some reason. Feh.
The new trek movie was fun. But just like the new MLP movie, we could have gotten much better.
1160079
It took me a little longer to work out why I didn't like Into Darkness -- I left the theater feeling like I'd had a rollicking good time, and also like the other shoe had yet to drop. This writeup really helped crystallize things for me, and it's funny to boot.
For what it's worth, they threw out the traditional limits on transporting in the first rebooted movie, with Scotty's "transwarp beaming". They included references to that in this one, as the explanation for how he was able to reach Qo'noS without a ship.
What's particularly interesting about the original series is it's cultural context (I can't believe that I, a science student, just used those words.) It came out in the middle of the cold war in a time where it was expected that civilisation would only last a few years longer.
It portrayed a message of hope. No, it said, we weren't going to all die to the bombs. In fact, we were going to survive and thrive as a species. Not individual nations, but as one species united. Notices that crew of the Enterprise was a culturally diverse one.
And it spawned a fandom of legendary proportions. Fanfiction, fan art, fan made products. Kirk slash Spock. All this produced during a time with no Internet.
I do wonder if any of this sounds familiar? Particularly the message of hope which comes in the middle of a dark and depressing time. And the resulting massive fandom. And the fan art. And the fanfiction. And the fan made ponies. And the Twieverypony.
1159922
Remember the rule for the original series motives: even numbers suck, odd numbers are good. Although I personally quite liked The Motion Picture but I'm strange like that sometimes (I also liked the first two chapters of Eternal). The film takes its time to build up a mood. There is one particular scene where the ship is flying further and further into a space-thing and it is minute after minute of the crew just starting in wonder at the increasing psychedelic images on the viewscreen . There is no dialogue, the entire scene is about mood.
Wrath of Khan is good though. So good in fact, that movie executives have been trying for decades to make another one. There they sit, scratching their heads trying to work out what made it so good like Jack Skellington trying to figure out Christmas.
1160102
Of all the things they could have preserved, they seriously chose that?
1160079
It's dead Jim. Star Trek that is. It died of old age a while ago. There's something shuffling about making nonsensical summer action movies, but that's about it. There will be new stories, new worlds conjured up, that aren't culturally bankrupt. This species can still produce culture, as it always has, but it will come from unexpected directions wearing unknown names.
1160102
I was rather doing them a favor ignoring all of that, actually. Because if there's a duffel-bag sized thingamajig that can snap you half a galaxy away, why then are there still starships? The original transporter is already as broken a technology as you can have in a science-fiction context[1], but this? Ye gods.
[1] Not because it's scientifically impossible. Of course it's scientifically impossible. No, because it's consequences aren't explored with rigor (which is kinda-sorta the point of gadgets in SF -- exploring their consequences).
1160310
...that's a remarkably good point. A massive dose of anti-cynicism just when its wanted.
I did, in fact, like the first movie. Perhaps not as much as you, but I respected that I tried to be straight-up proper science-fiction. It shot for 2001 and, tragically, didn't quite make it. It was still a bloody good try. You know what they say. Always aim for the Moon, even if you miss you'll burn up in re-entry. No...wait...
Oh, and the space-thing is V'ger. :)
Best simile ever.
The reboot-by-way-of-time-travel is an absolutely hideous idea. If they are going to reboot the idea[2] they should reboot it. Instead it's the worst of both worlds. Ugh.
[2] Which they should have done. I mean if you want to make more Star Trek you need to ditch the moribund mess that it had become and return to the core idea: Space, the final frontier and all that.
Agreed, agreed -- and well said! But they had a chance to bring Star Trek back just when we need a shot of optimistic science fiction. They could have taken the core of it, Roddenberry's dream, and done something amazing with it. But no. Instead we get something that's too bankrupt to even be a brainless action flick.
I think you may do audiences a disservice, RBD. Especially younger ones. I realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but my minions love juicy dialogue and character development, and prefer story over imagery.
For example, the eldest two and I just finished watching "Man from Earth" for about the twentieth time, and "Wrath of Khan" is on rotation with the boy-child. (His sisters prefer pony. Who knew? Heh.)
I think, from a 'profit' standpoint, it's EASIER to get a return on the 'splosions and blood. The first-run, everyone-see-it-once audience is who turns out for that. But the excellent storytelling crew? They provide companies profit on the long haul: Watching the story several times in the theatres, being first to buy the LaserDisc, Betamax, VHS, DVD, or BluRay...
The production companies just don't have that kind of time anymore.
1160310
cdn.meme.li/instances/300x300/30799910.jpg
I love that the Trek fandom is responsible for the term "slashfic".
de Lancie has drawn that parallel in interviews a lot. There's a lot of weight in Spock's "I have been, and always shall be, your friend" that carries over to Equestria as well.
1160326
YUP
1160473
That is definitely heartening.
1165299
1,3,5 are totally even numbers right? 2,4,6 are odd?
Man, I really hope I'm not responsible for people browsing this thread watching all the bad Star Trek films thinking they're the good tones.
1165424
Best troll ever, though!
*watching STV*
*Kirk finds God*
"wat."
1165559
Or the Search for Spock in which... um....
You know, despite the fact that I know that I've watched that film several times in my life, I cannot remember a single thing that happened in it other than, presumably, they find Spock. STV at least had "row row row your boat", a dude in a white robe, that scene where they can't escape the brig, and the whole finding god thing.
----
Edit: Oh yes, they blew up the Enterprise. But that's cheating because I know they were in a bird of prey in the next film.
1165559 It's quite a plausible troll too, because I'm sure lots of people have heard of the odd-even rule, but perhaps don't remember which way round it goes. Let me just tag Jet Cannon 1159922 here, just in case.
1165577
STIII is almost an emotional rollercoaster for me. Most of it is just... boring. (Guys, we killed Spock in the last movie but we gotta have him back!) But the bit where they hijack the Enterprise from Spacedock after sabotaging the Excelsior is always a fun/exciting watch for me (damn it Scotty get that door open (watch his face, he's as unsure as anybody that they'll make it without snapping off their nacelles)). And then the bit later on where Kirk tricks the Klingons into boarding the Enterprise right before it self-destructs...
Well, I did say I liked the old model work, didn't I?
And in the film's defense, the entire thing shows just how much they're willing to do and how far they're willing to go for a friend.
1165597
The last few minutes and I've been racking my brains to remember other details and I finally remembered that. "Oh yeah, Stealing the Enterprise must have been STIII not some other film", and indeed that was fun. But the middle, I'm still drawing blanks, which doesn't really speak well for it.
Overall I think you're right here. STIII is very much a film I like the idea of more than the actual execution. STIV was better for me. I first watched it when I was young and liked it for the wacky time travel antics. When I came back to it when I was older what stood out was Spock reconnecting with Krik and remembering who he is (and the wacky time travel antics as well—I'm glad that as I get older I appear to be able to appreciate things on more levels while not loosing the ability to appreciate things on levels I'd previously mastered.)
1165641
I realized I was bagging on STIII for doing exactly what I was bemoaning is missing these days (telling a character-driven story, not being concerned with action and explosions) so I had to give it some props, but I like your summation: great idea, less than stellar (ha! ha!) execution.
I also have to give them props for telling a continuous story over the course of II, III, and IV. Love that continuity.
STIV is almost like a crossover fanfic. "Let's take the Trek cast and dump them into the 80's and see what happens!" Good times.
1165650
I love how you're implying the eighties is a completely valid thing to crossover other things with. Like, let's do a crossover. What with? Let's see what options are. Harry Potter? Star Wars? Doctor Who? The Eighties?
But indeed, I do love that II, III, and IV form a complete story even though each is individually a very different style. Looked at as a whole, it doesn't really matter if the middle was a bit off.
You know, I want to go get copies of those films at watch them back to back now. Indeed, while everyone else is going to see Into Darkness, I shall sit alone with the classics. Let me go grab the DVDs and some thick rimmed glasses.
1165853
It isn't?! So much for my "Lyra buys a Walkman" fic...
For a while (around the time of the first reboot release, IIRC, trying to cash in), Best Buy was selling II, III, and IV in a box set. I thought that was pretty cool.
1166209
The Eighties may seem like a particularly bizarre fictional world to our refined twenty-thirteen sensibilities, perhaps dreamed up by a fevered mind, but get this, they actually happened! I have met people who claim to have lived through them. Heck, my own mother claims I was born mid way through them. Now my memory is hazy on this point, but I'm not going to doubt the world of my own mother.
I know It seems weird, but as far as I can tell, it's true! So your Lyra buys a Walkman fic is not in fact a crossover but historical fiction! That puts it several rungs up the respectability ladder!
1166272
The 80's were... real? I think you've been taken for a ride, friend. Next thing you'll tell me the 60's actually happened. Ha! Ha!
Also, ran across this just now and had to share:
i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7566546432/hA3BD8AF9/
1160079
Star Treck lore? There's Star Trek lore? The way I hear it, Trek lore is inconsistent with Trek lore.
1160326
Although I recall hearing that there was an episode somewhere where they played with that. I could regurgitate the plot summary I heard, if you want. I'd love to watch it myself, but I don't know enough to track it down.