Aaaaaaand rejected · 11:45am May 18th, 2013
Not surprised, honestly, but yeah, EqD replied during the night and it's been rejected again for another obscene number of reasons, the largest of which being what they call an 'overused crossover mechanism'.
I'm going to paste this, so if you want to tl;dr and not read, you can go ahead.
As my fellow pre-reader pointed out in your last review, your crossover opening follows the formula of:
Crossover hero falls through portal
Crossover hero finds ponies, is surprised
Ponies are hostile to the outsider
Twilight looks up what the creature is in a bookThis is a pretty overused crossover pattern, and it isn’t very effective in establishing Link as a unique character.
What do I know about your Link? He’s overconfident in his skills with a sword, he thinks about torturing small fairies just because he can and because they’re annoying him, and the first thing he does when arriving in Canterlot is to try to buy armor for a horse that he no longer has. Then he fights some guards and ends up in a dungeon, unconscious.
I know Link doesn’t really have a personality in the video games, but in a novel, I expect to see a bit more in terms of characterization. One guideline I use to decide if someone is a good character or not is to ask, “Is this building up a consistent concept of his character? And is his behavior unique to him, or generic enough that anybody would act that way?” The overconfident swordsman is a good start, but the rest of the character traits don’t work together to form a consistent picture.
His thinking about torturing small animals (fairies) is just... weird. Trying to buy armor for a horse he doesn’t have is unusual, but it doesn’t tell us much about his character. And fighting the guards but trying not to kill them and then ending up unconscious in a dungeon is how a surprisingly large number of crossover heroes act the moment they end up in a new world.
One of the issues with your crossover mechanism is that it’s a complete accident. Of course Link isn’t going to go around looking for ways to cross over into another dimension, but at least he could be looking for something, find it, and then have it turn out to be not what he expected. In fiction, important plot events happen for a reason, and the really important ones should happen because a main character formed a goal and made it happen, even if the end result isn’t what they intended.
Also, having the crossover mechanism be Link falling randomly into a hole doesn’t give you, as the author, a lot of ways to develop his character in the first chapter.
If, instead, he was searching a dungeon for an ancient treasure that would allow him to find his lost friend, but the ancient treasure sucks him into another world instead, then it would be more interesting because his actions are directed towards a goal and because they lead directly to his going to a new world. As opposed to what you’ve written, where his finding anything at all is mostly an accident.
Okay, let me just argue there for a sec; how is creating a conveniently placed treasure (which I would likely have no more use for) any more original than an 'accident'? Let's also not forget that everything he points out DID happen: Link was looking for a fairy, found a fairy, it turned out it wasn't his, and he fell into the portal. Is the portal an overused mechanism? Maybe. The whole point of it being there was to establish the parallel with Majora's Mask, and it is CANON that the Lost Woods are riddled with them. What else do you want me to say? I think this way is actually pretty well explained in comparison to whatever he suggested.
And speaking of which, wouldn't he have the right to be, I dunno, minimally bothered about being thrown out of his way? Sure, he thinks about torturing that fairy. For, like, a paragraph.
And fighting the guards but trying not to kill them and then ending up unconscious in a dungeon is how a surprisingly large number of crossover heroes act the moment they end up in a new world.
I'd like to know where that's been done, and if so, how it's wrong. Link's a hero, and those are beings he knows are sentient. I don't think people in their right mind would try to cause more trouble. Also ironic is that in the first strike, the pre-reader said it was wrong of him to try, fight and defeat the guards.
Anyways, sorry for the walls of text. I give up on that place. =P
They seem to be complaining about everything.
As for how he ended up in Equestria, we have a canon example of a similar event with Link's trip to Termina.
Sound like some high-standard nut jobs down their end.
1089110 Exactly, and much of the point of him ending up in Equestria this way was to establish a parallel with Majora's Mask, since this is happening when Majora's Mask should have.
Those guys are just snobs. At least you can put your fic in the "Rejected by EqD" group.
Don't worry. Keep on working hard and think this through! They have a lot to go through too, though... don't worry!
Tuga-Brons will take over >:3
And this is why I refer to EQD as canterlot Snobs. I follow so many people and I hear about them getting rejected all the time. it's really out of hand.
you want some standards? fine if your rejecting every single story because the most common way to cross dimensions is a portal of some kind then your just being bloody stupid.
Look up Stargate EQD three series revolving around a portal to other worlds. not quite the same thing but IT WORKS why fix it. yeah encouraging others to be original is important but stop beating people over the head with it.
On that topic Dimension crossing of any kind requires some interaction between both dimensions that means a portal between them doesn't matter what it's caused by magic science or too many fruits being eaten on a given day.
Fairly sure the lost woods portals don't work like that though Quill. Canonically they don't even really exist it's a way to describe the magic of the woods keeping people trapped the only way link could find his was was because he had the courage Triforce and Saria was a Sage and had the song too.
otherwise I kinda agree with the torture thing. what did it contribute other then a reference to how annoying Navi can be.which by the way is blown out of proportion.
1097364 The thing is that there aren't really many ways to get a character from Universe A to Universe B without a portal or some magical device with no relevance. Stargate is lucky because it has, well, Stargates, which are portals in themselves.
The Lost Woods is a case tHat isn't at all different. It's shown multiple times, and even used in Majora's Mask in almost the exact same way I did, that the portals exist and can have these capabilities. It's all a matter of execution.
Regarding the torture thing, well, it happens once, and it's not referring to Navi in the slightest. Link is angry at Olivia for dragging him to this place, and wants revenge; it's representative of his anger. The torture segment proper is a variation of the expression 'there are many ways to skin a cat'. Saying it doesn't really mean you HAVE skinned cats. xD
1097673 ah should Reread your story then. >.>
Even stargates are "Magical Portals" as I said EQD needs to remove the stick from it's butt and realize why it's over used. because dimension: crossing can only really be done one way beaching the walls between universes creating a portal or something similar.
I know how to get your story on EQD add more Ghirahim. :D
1090389 Just wanted to say, that left this silliest grin plastered all over my face.
forums.watchuseek.com/attachments/f20/712955d1337432645-i-hate-omega-part-two-necro.jpg
Instead of me jumping on the bandwagon, allow me to maybe throw some explanation onto what they are probably thinking on these matters. Why am I doing this? Well, partially because I'm drunk. Partially because I've been featured on the site so know what's going on, but also partially because I'm your friendly neighborhood... Equestria Man? Hmm... regardless, I'll touch on a few of the points.
See, here's the thing. Almost every single amature story starts with with hook. Seriously. Hit that random button (is there a random button? Hmm...) and choose any HiE story (to make sure it is someone "appearing" in their world). I bet you a story request that he or she appears via a portal. Hell, even famous stories ("Hands" anyone?) has started this way. See, the hook itself isn't the problem, or else we could would have to accept "Equestria goes to war" or "pony falls in love" as this as well. The issue is that it literally takes the character and moves it to the world without any regard for what the character might want or do. Kinda going with what the pre-reader said, the dungeon to get the magic item or something to get Navi is there to show that Link was trying to do the quest, instead of forcing us to accept it through exposition. It gives us a better feel of his motives. It also shows us a lot about his personality and dedication and shit toward his quest (crossovers with famous worlds don't really have this issue, but normal stories would). Think of it this way: if it wasn't Link we were talking about or we weren't innately familiar with Link already through the video games, would the portal still work? I'd say no, or at the very least barely.
Nothing wrong with this. I'd be surprised if I saw a talking pony, but that's just me.
Not too too much wrong with this, but almost tropey... if that makes sense. How come EVERYBODY is angry with him and wants to kill him? How comes there aren't those who are simply curious? If an alien suddenly appeared in times square (without explosion or crash landing or something), would everyone run away? I'd say that no they wouldn't. Some would instead get closer and try to see what it was. Hell, the cops wouldn't know what to do at first. The first response wouldn't be to attack. It would "what the fuck!?" Granted humanity is the only sentient race on Earth while ponies share it with other races, but my statement stands
This is something I always hated in stories. Why would they be in books? Why? Did humanity die out? Seems highly unlikely that humanity lived in the world of ponies at any point. You could get away with this in a comedy (reference G1's Megan and Danny being humans), but in a legit story? Doubtful. Plus this takes character interaction away from the story and instead replaces it with boring exposition. It's literally the difference between a Wikipedia article and social interaction. Would Twilight look them up? Probably, but make it so THEY AREN'T IN THE BOOKS, so she has to talk to him about it.
Not Link in the slightest, but you could establish this as his character in your story. The dungeon action (fighting and taunting monsters) and talking to Twilight (bragging about his swordplay) could establish this very well.
I... don't remember the story well enough to give judgement on this. I personally thought it was just that one parasprite/fairy thing he was going against, but that's my memory. Regardless of the intention, the fact that the prereader got the implication of this means that he either A) got the wrong message, or B) got the right message. In the first, you should make it more clear that he is merely annoyed at her, and tone down the attacks. If the second, you should clean up WHY Link is swatting at what's-her-name (thinks it's a mockery of Navi, trying to overreact to dive her away, sees her as a threat, etc.) so that we know for sure why he's doing that. If nothing else, give us a hint other than "she's annoying."
This confused me too a little. He's surrounded by a completely new race that he's never heard about, one that is giving him weird looks, and is trying to buy armor for a horse he doesn't have at the moment? Better yet, he never bought armor for the horse before, why now? Buying the armor isn't the issue, but again his motives are. Does he see this world as very threatening, so sees Eponia as very vulnerable? If so, tell us. Does he miss her so much, he decides that half of the loot money is hers and sees armor as something she'd want? If so, tell us. Was he always saving up for this? If so, TELL US.
then
This is one of the biggest issues (the portal is probably my biggest issue). The reason for this is because it is the biggest arbitrary reason to slow down the story. Putting the main character in jail, it is taking the easy way out to get him to meet Twilight (and somehow, all of her friends (typically)), meet the princesses, along with other important/main-character ponies.
Further, and probably a bigger problem, is why he was going easy on them? Unless I can't remember correctly (or it happens in a game I never played), Link has never gone easy on a threat, unless it is obviously an ally (Hylian). He never goes about using the blunt side of his sword when facing foes (Link is a hit first, ask questions later... the dick), so why should he now? It better be a damn good reason, because fighting back against guards is an all or nothing thing, and he should know this. You either fight and win or immediately surrender. If you go halfway (fight and lose), you die.
I already told you why it's wrong, but as for strories that do this? Here are some from my favorites. (yes, all are HiE). Keep in mind I don't read HiE, I don't read pony stories, and I'm picky regardless. Yes, there are ways to do this, but it is a worse trope than the portal.
Finally, DON'T JUST SAY "I GIVE UP!" That's a really silly thing to do. Assuming it's a place for the best of the best stories, then you are literally saying, "I'd rather be lazy and have a subpar story than put effort to make some changes to make it a damn good one. "If they are indeed uptight snobs, then how can it hurt anyway? Stick it to them! Giving up and not trying is quite literally settling for second best. Are they weird sometimes? Sure! I've had one story accepted within twenty four hours without edits, had one sent back and forth with seven strikes (don't ask), taking half a year to get posted, while I had one where they said, "This isn't for us. Unless it changes fundamentally, don't bother resubmitting." Yes, there are some that will never make it, but this one could if you gave it some thoughts and edits. Seriously.
PS: In case it isn't obvious, I like the story. Don't think I don't.
2170210 Oookay, let's see if I can word my answer correctly to talk about all the points. xD
I can definitely see why the portal would be very overused. It definitely is. However, it's important to consider two things: one, you need to know something about the series' lore. It's the lost woods, a place riddled with portals. Yes, he fell down the hole by "accident" (which isn't entirely an accident 'cause he was lured into the hole by the fairy), but so did he in Majora's Mask. Point two brings me back to this point, as Link was wandering aimlessly even in MM, hoping to somehow find Navi. Perhaps I could have created some sort of mystical item he could have picked up and then gotten sucked in. But what's the point? Where would I fit that in? Why would I create an item I was never gonna use or was not planning on using in the story? I had all points of the story straightened from the word go, and having a random item from a temple in hyrule just didn't fit in with my lore.
I'm unfortunately not sure when I resubmitted the story for approval in EqD, but I'm fairly certain I'd re-written the chapter by then. In the first version of the first chapter (which I really can't remember very well), I know the guards had turned hostile because he had a weapon. In the new version, I used some elements from Equestria itself. I made him bump into Blueblood by accident, he claims he was attacked, and I'm very sure that even though it's him we're talking about, the guard won't turn a blind eye on a completely alien creature wielding a weapon. So the ponies didn't immediately or randomly turn hostile. In fact he was coaxed into a store, which brings me to this next point:
When he arrived to Canterlot, Link was, as you might imagine, going through a mixture of feelings. He had just fallen face first into an entirely new world, filled with talking ponies and probably a lot more new things to discover. And for once, the world wasn't about to end. Perhaps you'll say that the first thing he would have tried to do would be to try to find a way back home. But he's a kid still. He is trying to process everything he's seen so far, and gets called into a shop by a greedy clerk who is hoping to extract some money from him because he's just wandering around looking dumbfounded. When he tries to buy the armor, he's dazed, unsure of what to do.
I'm honestly not sure why he 'thinks of torturing fairies', but I do recall I included a line where I did in fact say he wanted revenge on the fairy. Perhaps because he'd been baited into a completely different world? Because he could have been killed? I think there's enough reasons to plot revenge on someone.
Back on the topic of the fight, I will have to use the excuse 'he's a child' again. He's been to hell and back in Hyrule, having fought Ganon's troops. But Ganon's troops are mindless monsters, hellbent on causing suffering. These are very clearly sentient beings, so I don't think he would try to kill them. One example I can remember are the gerudo in Gerudo Fortress. He doesn't kill them, he knocks them unconscious. Hum, with arrows. MY POINT IS, THEY'RE UNCONSCIOUS.
About Twilight's immediate first thought... well, I guess she could have googled it.
No but seriously, I think everyone agrees that she would have scoured books in search of that. Books, because I don't think they have some other source of information. Even then, she didn't find anything conclusive. She found a reference to an old Equestrian tale, if I remember correctly, and nothing else.
Aaand I think I covered all the points. Did I? D: