Debunking Mykan's Dragonball Factor using the Dragonball Factor · 1:51pm Dec 16th, 2022
Mykan posted a new blog post. Rather than go through the entire thing and debunk each claim directly, I'll just debunk him using his own Dragonball Factor. Because most of his claims rely on the Dragonball Factor, I figured what better way to take down his Dragonball Factor than to use the Dragonball Factor? Granted, it's my own interpretation of the Dragonball Factor.
But first:
Heat Generation: Twilight Sparkle can generate amount heat to melt snow.
Not effective on Celesto: He is well-trained in temperature conditions. It’d be like trying to melt a ceramic (Ceramics don’t melt)
In reality, everything has a melting point, even ceramics. It's over 2000 degrees Centigrade though, so insanely hot. But it's a melting point nonetheless. So ceramics do in fact melt.
That was the only direct quote that I wanted to address.
First things first. Unlike Mykan, I'm honest enough to apply the Dragonball Factor universally rather than picking and choosing like he does. Either everyone can potentially benefit, or nobody can. Secondly, that universal interpretation also applies to what's taken from Dragon Ball. I won't just pick and choose what aspects of Dragon Ball to use. And finally, I'm not going to be petty and use Mykan's significantly weaker version of Twilight. This isn't his fanfic, so what he says won't go so easily with me. After all, the best way to debunk his claims is to point out his own words about intentionally weakening the canon characters to make his OCs seem that much stronger. His rules stay in his stories.
Also, how does having 3 horns make Chelesto x10 stronger than just having 1 horn? The horn is just a magic focus, not the source of magic.
Factor #1: Training
Mykan claims that his OCs are so much stronger than the canon characters because of training like Dragon Ball characters. Well, that also applies to the canon characters. The reason Training works in Dragon Ball the way it does is because most races can actually benefit from that training. And that's assuming they're not genetically built to take advantage of that training. Saiyans are a warrior race from a planet with x10 Earth's gravity. They can also transform into Oozaru and Super Saiyan (and beyond), and are even capable of obtaining God Ki on their own. Half-Saiyans, though not a warrior race, have more potential than even pure-blooded Saiyans. Even Namekians have great potential. And don't get me started on Frieza's race. Even normal humans have the potential to take significant advantage of similar training.
Applying this to MLP, seeing as the Space Ponies originate from Chelesto, and seeing as Chelesto originated from Equestria, Space Ponies shouldn't have any more potential than Equestrian Ponies.
Personally, I would like to see how Mykan would handle training like a Z-Fighter. In reality, it would cause more harm than anything else. Weighted clothing would adversely affect the musculoskeletal system, specifically around the neck and shoulders. I could see weighted pants and other lower body items having a beneficial effect for leg training though. And gravity training can be deadly if long term. And that could be as low as x2 Earth's gravity. The cardiovascular system would have to work that much harder just to make sure you can still live. At x3 gravity, your blood would be so heavy that you'd be lucky if you don't go brain dead from oxygen deprivation. To make a long story short, in reality, humans would die on Planet Vegeta, because x10 gravity would make blood too heavy for the heart to pump it to the brain. The brain would be deprived of oxygen, since that's what the blood does, transfers oxygen to the rest of the body. Assuming you live long enough to go brain dead first, you'd likely die of multiple heart attacks from how much stress it would be under just to try to pump the blood.
I never actually thought of how torturous gravity training would actually be on the body until now. A gravity chamber would be a futuristic version of a medieval torture device.
Factor #2: Powers
Power in Dragon Ball actually has multiple tiers that can be split into two categories. The kind of Power Mykan relies on for the most part is the lowest tier. Brute Force is the lowest tier, and what is often the most represented in Starfleet. The 2nd tier is Ki, which would be the other tier of Power represented in Starfleet, which is ironic considering what the 3rd tier is. Tier 3 is most represented in MLP. That being Magic. That's right, Magic in Dragon Ball is stronger than Ki. Those 1st 3 tiers make up the first category, which I will call the Mortal Category. Most humans fall under the 1st tier. Most fighters in DBZ fall under Tier 2. Fortune Teller Baba and Babidi fall within the 3rd tier. The reason why Magic is significantly stronger than Ki is because Magic doesn't care about power levels. Baba can summon people from Otherworld back from the dead temporarily, and Babidi was able to use magic to take control of one of the Universe's strongest characters. The only reason Babidi's magic failed to keep Vegeta under control was because Vegeta was too stubborn because of his Saiyan pride. That and the fact that his heart had changed, whether he admits it or not. The 2nd Category is what I call the Divine Category, which consists of Tier 4: Magic (the kind that the Kais use), Tier 5: God, and Tier 6: Angel.
There are a few exceptions to the tier rules though. Broly exists in both Brute Force and Ki tiers while being on par with God tier. Then there are the Dragon Balls and Eternal Dragons. They were created with Mortal Magic, and are only as powerful as their creators. But they are on par with Divine Magic, and even on par with or above God Tier in the case of the Super Dragon Balls.
Now that my Deep Dive into my understanding of Powers and their tiers is done, the point I'm making is that Magic wouldn't care how tough Chelesto's skin is, it would still get through regardless of how much Chelesto trains. But here's my alternate take that will still be generous to Chelesto. Magic being unable to get through Chelesto's skin has absolutely nothing to do with how tough it is, for the reasons stated above. But because MLP is a world of magic, it's Chelesto's own innate magic that creates the magic impenetrability.
Factor #3: Technique
Whether Mykan admits it or not, the fact is that he relies solely on physical abilities and statistics as if they are enough to determine the outcome of a battle in Dragon Ball. But this just shows how little Mykan understands the Dragon Ball lore. When Goku and Piccolo fought Raditz, if you went by their power levels alone, it would've been statistically impossible for them to defeat Raditz (Goku: 416, Piccolo 408, Raditz: 1,600). Even if you combined their power levels, it would've still been lower than Raditz' power level. But Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon was enough to kill both Raditz and Goku at the same time. The same with Krillin's Destructo Disk. If Nappa hadn't dodged, it would've taken off his head, despite the difference in power levels (Krillin: 1,770, Nappa: 4,000).
The fact is that there are abilities that don't rely on the target's power levels, don't rely on the user's power level, or, in the case of Magic, don't care about power levels at all. The reason why the Special Beam Cannon could take down Raditz, whose power level was nearly x4 that of Piccolo, was because of the nature of the Special Beam Cannon acting as a drill with its spiral motion. And that's saying something considering that the max power of the Special Beam Cannon at the time was 1,480, which logically still wasn't enough to defeat Raditz with. And the Destructo Disk is perhaps even more powerful. The Destructo Disk could've been enough even to cut Frieza in half (it did slice his tail in half at least). This is because the Destructo Disk really is just a regular Ki ball. But it's spun at such a high velocity that it gets pulled outward into a disk shape, turning it into a saw blade and significantly raising its destructive power. These are abilities that, though restricted by the users' power levels, are not bound by them.
But the perfect example would be Goku's signature Spirit Bomb. That is an ability that is 100% independent of the user's power level. This is evidenced by the fact that Goku can only use the Spirit Bomb in his base form (that is until Super and the Tournament of Power).
And let's not forget about Magic. As I've stated before, In Dragon Ball, Magic doesn't care about power levels. Without Magic, Baba would just be an old coot who would probably break if I breathed on her wrong. Babidi would just be a pathetic little insect man. And Moro would just be an old goat. And yet, Baba was able to summon the dead, Babidi was able to control several minions, including the Demon King Dabura, and even the likes of Buu himself (although that's not exactly a mind control thing), and Moro was able to outsmart Ultra Instinct.
And that's another skill that, though dependent on the user's base power level, enhances the abilities of the user astronomically. Ultra Instinct, despite not having anything to do with power levels per se, is an Angel Tier skill that even G.O.Ds had trouble achieving.
To avoid drawing it out further, if you apply the Dragonball Factor to a story, then you have to take into account that there are abilities that don't care about power levels, or find ways around power levels, making relying on stats alone almost useless. The reason why the show stopped relying on what a character's power level is is because that's just one of many factors that can account for who will win/lose.
The fact is that despite how much stronger Chelesto is than Twilight, I know that Twilight could defeat Chelesto in a One-Hit KO. And I wouldn't have to break any of Mykan's rules to do so. Twilight could simply manifest a flexible bubble shield in Grand Ruler's windpipe, cutting off his air supply. It bypasses Chelesto's magic-proof skin by sending the magic through the mouth/nostrils, allowing an unrestricted path without having to go through skin. Making a flexible bubble shield means that it can contort to the shape of the windpipe. After all, I assume Chelesto still needs to breath. I suppose Chelesto could cast a counterspell or an anti-magic spell. But that would require that he admits that there is a way to defeat him. And even that can be bypassed (though it would take the "One-Hit" part out of the "One-Hit KO"). It takes time and focus to cast a spell. With being oxygen deprived, that would make it harder for him to focus on the magic, ensuring that it takes longer to cast the spell. While he's casting the spell, it could be disrupted by a punch to the gut, perhaps courtesy of Keyblade Master Link (shoutout to Link and Storyteller and their role play session for giving me that idea). And even if Chelesto attempted to attack Twilight to disrupt her spell, the fact is that a bubble shield spell can continue to be maintained without the caster's input. Then it's only a matter of time before Chelesto passes out from oxygen deprivation. Whether Twilight wants to go full assassination attempt is up to her, but a KO still means Twilight won the battle.
And if Mykan sees this, I'm sure that he'd disagree with the outcome. But if he wanted to take the idea and use it for another assassin character to use as their technique of choice, I say let him use the idea. Honestly, I'd be flattered if he used it. Because in doing so, he'd have to admit to himself that he likes my idea for an assassination technique that could actually make his stories better.
P.S. Mykan was asked about if the 4 Princesses were to take on Chelesto. So why did his blog post only focus on Twilight? Is he so petty about hating Twilight that he couldn't see past her to remember that the question included 3 other Princesses, or does Mykan plan on making 3 more blogs of a similar manner addressing Princesses Celestia, Luna, and Cadance? But I suppose the arguments for why nothing Twilight would do would work would also apply to the other Princesses, I suppose.
P.P.S. Fighting in tandum with others will ultimately be different, because they could utilize team attacks that wouldn't be possible individually. So addressing the individuals one at a time won't give the full context.
Facts
Not effective on Celesto: Just as his OUTSIDE is super strong, so are his insides. His magical aura is so strong, and his cells so powerful, Twilight's magic would bleed away to nothing and not hurt him at all.
1: I don't like it-- I don't suffocate beings in my stories. They either get blown up, vaporized, or just plain mutilated... but not suffocated.
2: It will not make my fic better...
A: You are mocker (You consider NOTHING I do as better, and anything you say towards it, even if it's good, is out of Spite/more mocking)
B: I don't like it, and it goes against my preference. ( I will not view it as better, and those who DO deem it better... I'll send them out the door)
5703770
Congratulations. You did exactly what an acquaintance of mine predicted:
If this was your fanfic, you'd have the authority to make that argument. But you're not the author here, and Chelesto isn't facing your artificially weakened facsimile of Twilight. Twilight will just cast a spell that makes the shield spell fueled by Chelesto's own magic. And I'm still not breaking your rules.
I just modified it from "Magic Absorption" to "Magic Redirection".
And I don't see what the strength of his insides or his cells have anything to do with how Twilight's Shield Spell works.
Why not? You've done much worse things, so you can't argue from a moral standpoint. You traumatize and emotionally torture characters, so it can't be because you're opposed to torture techniques. Why are you drawing a line around a specific style of torture (which doesn't even have to be for killing) that you refuse to go into? And I say draw a line around it because as I said, you've done worse, so it's not in a position that's "going too far".
Perhaps you're just too proud to admit that you actually do like it. Perhaps you just don't want to give me credit or hate that you didn't come up with it first. Or maybe you're actually honest and just don't want to use it for no other reason than personal preference. But in any case, you'd better never use that idea. Because if you do, you'll receive one big, fat, juicy, "I told you so" from it.
I think what you mean to say is "I just don't want to use it because I don't prefer it, and I refuse to admit that personal preference is not the same as better.", because you don't dictate what is or is not considered better.
Also, if you don't want to use the idea, just don't use it. There's no reason why you should that you have to announce to the entire universe that you're not going to use one person's suggestion. Doing so just makes your intent suspicious
Toiryama was trying to use the Power Levels concept to preach against it ever since Day 1; he realized his intentions wasn't working later on, eventually introduced Future Trunks, and then basically gave Freeza, King Cold, and all of their troops accompanying them such a massive case of The Worf Effect to the point that the Power Levels as a concept was effectively dropped from the series beginning with that point onward. Only reason we even have any measurements of character Power Levels for the likes of the Androids and Cell was ultimately because of material that wasn't being created by Toriyama himself. Canonically, we simply do not have an actual Power Level assigned to anybody Post-Debut of Future Trunks. Even when Broly was made canon, the Power Level of 10,000 he had was because of a Grandfather Clause the character had going on especially considering much of his past still took place during Freeza's reign when the concept would've still meant something.
5703776
One thing that DBZ Kai did was mention that there are a few races that are capable of suppressing their power. During Frieza's reign, it was uncommon enough that Scouters were still functional. But I could argue that power levels began to become obsolete even back when Vegeta was on Earth, pointing out that they can hide their power levels. That and Kaioken doesn't make any sense. What multiplier is Kaioken? A lot of people claim it's x2. But that doesn't make sense, with Kaioken x2 being the x2 multiplier.
And I know you mentioned the Android Saga throwing things off. But it's also thrown off in Super with the introduction of God Ki, the ultimate middle finger to tracking power levels.
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Kaioken is explicitly stated to have *multiple* multipliers, each giving more strength but also posing more risk the higher you go. Canonically, Goku has only ever used it to go 20x with it, and that was against Freeza if I'm not mistaken. Next time he busted out Kaioken during Super it was initially 10x, but then when facing Jiren, he once again used 20x because Whis had to point this out that Goku was significantly going further out than normal against Jiren which the others couldn't quite easily tell (then again not many of those characters actually saw Goku go into 20x back in the Freeza Saga, either).
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The reason they didn't see it in the anime is that how the anime is different from the manga. In the manga, there was no visual indicator for Kaioken. So when the anime was made, the scenes where he was supposed to be using Kaioken didn't show him using it. So they did a flashback to show Goku using Kaioken in short bursts.
5703803
Ignoring the fact the manga for Super is an adaptation of the anime as opposed to the other way around like it was before (at least until the Post-Multversal Tournament stuff that is). Also keep in mind we had primarily a different artist behind the manga adaptation of Super... from whose past history with the series with his own personal pet project is pretty much why the manga version had the inferior version of Goku Black...
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I was talking about Z, not Super. In DBZ, the animators didn't originally animate Kaioken because in the Manga, there was no visual indication.
5703808
I admit I have not had a chance to read the original manga, nor do I have the funds needed to get a hold of the copies myself. So I kinda have to rely on how the anime has handled things and using various sites official or wikia based to figure out anything that was otherwise only in the manga or something similar.
Facts are Over 9000!!!!!!
It's spelt "Celesto" , without the "h".
5703958
I know how it's spelled. I'm just spelling it how it's pronounced.
I don’t really watch a lot of dragon ball or know a lot about it. So this was interesting.
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The idea of Power Tiers is my own based on my observations of the series.
5705233
Oh ok