School for New Writers 5,012 members · 9,625 stories
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Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

Commissioned by me from Ckat_Myla.

The intent is to provide some references and help for people who don't feel appreciated for their efforts to share their work. Please find the video and transcript bellow. Though for this I do recommend the video as Ckat has a lovely voice.

And by all means. Feel free to share this forum/video if you think it could help others.

Written version
Facing the Lack of Love: 7 Things NOT to Do When Faced With the Wall of Apathy

Let me say that if you write stories of any kind – fan fiction or otherwise – and you post your work onto the internet for all to see, you are a very brave person. Really, you are. Any content maker really (be they stories, articles, videos, music, etc.) who actually does put forth the love and effort into said works – and are brave enough to submit them for our entertainment/subject them to our scrutiny are worthy of praise.

Now, other people have posted some really great articles about how to be a polite content­ maker and accept criticism/rejection gracefully. Some people have written about dealing with hate or trolls, and to tell the difference between a troll comment and actual constructive criticism.

Those things are quite helpful... if you are actually getting attention. But what about those writers of fanfics that aren't, that are suffering from a different thing altogether? A lack of feedback or attention?

There might be some articles or videos about how to get more attention, but this isn't one of them. I might give some tips or something, but what we are really dealing with here today is the sad fact that sometimes you can be doing everything right. Your story can be something interesting and worth reading. You can be a polite, good commenter and an upstanding member of whatever writing site you visit. Sometimes though, even following all the rules and going through everything with a fine-­toothed anti troll comb, your story can be met with a giant wall of silence and apathy.

You may feel like it's your fault, like it's something you've done or not done. 'Is the story not interesting? Is my description/title/cover image not punchy enough?' And you know, those could be factors, but how about when you've fixed all those possible flaws and yet you still aren't getting any love? Since I am a fellow writer/internet content­ provider, I have been where you are now, and I feel confident enough to give you this list of things you should NOT do when faced with this situation.

`­`­`­`­`­`­`­`­`­`­`­­`­`

7. Don't (Completely) blame yourself

Yes, I add that little extra word there. Because to be honest, sometimes there are things that might contribute to a lack of interest in your story. Poor grammar or spelling in the summary, or a summary that's too vague or maybe too complicated. Notice though that these things are easily fixable.

So let's say you've checked the summary and it is perfectly fine, you've had your pre-­reader and a few other people look it over and they weren't confused by it. What might be the problem still?

Well, this is something you might find in most of these list items I'm afraid... people are fickle. Yup. as much as we are taught as children to not judge a book by its cover, that might be exactly what people are doing. You can change the cover too, but sometimes people will like/dislike things for just the weirdest reasons( but we'll get to that). If you accept this fact here at the start, we can move onto the other items with this lovely golden nugget of truth.

There are probably tens of thousands of stories on the site you've posted your stuff, and maybe about a hundred of those might have plots similar to yours (That doesn't make it unoriginal, because NOTHING is original anymore ;P). Of all the potential readers on the site, maybe only a few might actually want to read the type of story, or about those characters.


6. Don't self­-deprecate in your Author's Notes or (especially not) your story

BE CONFIDENT! This is your story, you wrote it. Own up to it and don't apologize for every little aspect of it. Sure, if you're a new writer you can make a comment about that in the A/N, or if you don't have a pre-­reader yet you can explain that as the reason you could have skipped some typos. Don't be a Fluttershy about your work though. If it's something you are proud of, be proud of it. You actually don't have to put an Author's Note at all if you don't want. (If there's something interesting about the chapter or I feel I need to explain something, I usually just put a link to a blog post I made about it.)

In 2011, just after Return of Harmony part 2 aired (literally, the night it aired) I wrote what became the first scene of a fanfic I am proud of and (sorta) happy with. The thing was though, I did not have as much confidence in my writing as I do now (and the amount I have now I probably shouldn't have ;). This particular story had my very first attempt at a kissing scene, so that made me extra nervous about it.

I ended up leaving an A/N that was nearly the same length as the story itself. In it I apologized over and over and tried to explain why I did what I did. It was like I was just laying my writing down at the feet of the mighty leader of the Hoard of Flamers, trying to meekly and weakly cower away before he ripped me apart. The thing is though, nobody cared. The readers didn't actually need my lengthy apology­/explanation. The ones that liked it liked it, and the ones that didn't didn't.

Nobody ripped me apart or even really complained about the kiss. A couple of people said it felt natural.

So when in doubt, just go ahead and leave the A/N box empty. Background stuff like story explanations can go in the blog-posts. Even if you aren't completely confident in your story or writing expertise, guess what? Sometimes a lack of extraneous things like that make you seem more mysterious and – therefore – appear more confident.


5. Don't spam threads/groups with links (or choose your moments carefully)

Sure, self-­promotion is important, but we all should know there is a difference between giving yourself a little signal boost, and making a pest of yourself.

If you just added your Apple/Dash story to the Apple/Dash group, there might be a thread in their forum to give a little bump for it. There are probably other good and appropriate places to advertise. Like your own blogs/sites, or ask a friend to give it a link on his/her blog/site. Maybe you can do a trade where they post about your story if you post about theirs. Share the love and keep the friendship going, right?

What you should not be doing is going to random threads (or barely­ connected threads...or other random and possibly­ connected sites) and just linking to your story with a comment like 'Hey, check out my story it's blahbalabhlbahabhal!' (especially if you add the blahblah part, that just makes you look like you suddenly lost control of your fingers).

Even the more casual 'Hey, you like ____? I like ___? I wrote this story if you wanna check it out', is better, but it still sorta smells a lot like 'The only reason I am here is to post this link to my GLORIOUS story, I care not for what is really being discussed/what this comment is actually attached to'.

Usually I've noticed that mentioning the story is all that's needed. The interested party(ies) will inquire for a link on their own. And again, that's only outside of a link­ posting thread and only where appropriate.


4. Don't assume your story is bad because of lack of comments

Remember the big, important truth I mentioned earlier? 'People are fickle'? Well, it's coming in to play again here. They are also fellow humans, like yourself (or any other sentient being with emotions and thoughts that of a human) and so are also prone to whatever type of thing might keep you from commenting sometimes. Are there stories you just sorta glance at, and maybe like but not enough to leave a comment?

Are there stories you really enjoy, but don't really have a lot to say or can't find a good way to articulate your feelings? Do you sometimes feel like if you've
commented on one chapter you probably don't have to on all of them(especially if it's a long one)?

Sometimes do you just feel shy about leaving a comment for whatever reason? Guess what? Those people reading your stories all have potential to be feeling those feels too. Sometimes it's not 'ew, I hate this, comment for you!', or 'meh, no clop, I'm bored'. Sometimes it could just be one of those things I mentioned above, or something else entirely. Comments don't always equal success or popularity of a story. You might be thinking that the like/dislike buttons are the things that really determine that, and yeah, you might be right...but again, not always.


3. Don't worry so much about the like/dislikes

This is also an area where people can be fickle little boogers. Some people (like me) will hit the like button on every story that I find interesting enough to read at least the first chapter, regardless of if I faved it or not (but I always hit like on a faved story). As far as the dislikes go, some people (again, me) might regard that thumbs down as tantamount toa slap in the face. Some people would have to really, really just hate a story or find it personally offensive in some way to hit the dislike button.

Some people though are a bit more free with their thumbs downs, and hit it because they are genuinely giving it some thought and providing a critique on the story. I had one such occurrence fairly recently, and it was almost like seeing a real live unicorn trot up to me and offer me a time turner. That's because I think this might be something of a rarity on any writing site (especially fanfiction). By that I mean a person willing to give you an honest, well­ thought out review of your story, and an explanation as to why they are giving it a thumbs down. (I feel I handled it alright...although I could have been more confident. I didn't rage flame him though. I sent him an equally well­ thought out reply by PM. Though now I think of it it might have been better to just accept the criticism without saying anything.)

You will have the much, MUCH more frequent 'random dislike' people. The ones who are far to trigger­happy with that red button. 'Oh, this is a romance/sad/slice of life/other genre I don't like? DISLIKE! Oh, it's a shipping fic for [character A] and [character I don't want with character A]? DISLIKE! Oh, it has more likes than my (possibly similar) story? DISLIKE! Oh, I'm just going through the front page randomly hitting the dislike button on every story I see? DISLIKE!

I'm not saying that stuff actually happens all the time or that all of your red bar consists of those.... I'm just saying I've been around the internet enough to think it's a distinct possibility.


2. Don't hold your story hostage

Now, I have never done this. I have seen this done before though. Writers who decide that they absolutely MUST have validation from their readers in order to write. 'Guys, I'm not gonna write any more of this story if I don't get at east ten comments/likes/favs on this chapter!'

Here's where I'm gonna be a little blunt. This is a dumb idea. You may think that you 'deserve' that many likes/favs/comments and this sort of ultimatum gives you the power, but it doesn't. It actually puts the power in the hands of your readers. The same readers you are kind of extorting to get what you want. They may genuinely like your story, but when you demand something like that you just come off sounding like an entitled bratty diva. Every like, comment, and fav you get is a gift. Nobody made those people do those things, they did it because they enjoyed what you had to offer, so revel in that. Even if it's not as many or as much as you'd like or think your story deserves. Not to sound like a mom, but hey... there are other writers who probably don't even have half of the love from readers that you do.

Plus, look at the fellow writers you admire, or even professionals? Do they ever hold their content hostage? What if JK Rowling did that? 'Yeah, sorry fans, I've written the next Harry Potter book but you don't get it until I have a million comments on [whatever social networking site was big in the early 2000's].'

Holding out for more reader love also tells me that you might be writing your story for the wrong reasons, or for the wrong person. Which leads me to my last point...


1. Don't give up on your story

You are not – or at least should not be – writing your story to please other people. You might be writing to try and entertain others with what you already want to write, but the one person you should always aspire to make happy with your work is YOU. So you post the first few chapters and don't get much of a nibble, that's fine. If you are confident in yourself and that you have done the best you can with your story, if you love your story and think it's worth something, then you've already won. Remember that one lesson letter to Celestia, something about 'if you try and please every pony, you end up pleasing no pony'? Wise words indeed. Just like people are fickle, people are different. They might have different tastes than you, and so trying to anticipate and cater to every sort of reader ever is gonna leave you tired, frustrated, and with a cluttered mess of a story that you just don't care about anymore.

Writing your stories for yourself is also the best way to battle that wall of apathy. It's okay that the story isn't getting a lot of love, I'm still proud of it and I am not ashamed of it because I worked hard. Plus, eventually your story might be discovered by some like­ minded individuals later on down the line, and you wouldn't want to disappoint them by not finishing or deprive them of discovering the story at all by deleting it it, would you?

Following through and seeing a story to the end takes perseverance, and even if you don't get a lot of love, that perseverance will probably be noticed by someone. You don't want to be the author who leaves their story unfinished. You might get comments from people like me years later saying, 'OMG where did you gooooo? I wanna know what happens!' Trust me I have been on both sides of that scenario, and neither one makes you feel good.

Now, you aren't gonna always have the drive to continue your story, but you should probably fight that urge. The middle is usually when it starts to get difficult, and if a story problem pops up, don't roll over, work it out. Just... keep swimming, I guess. To use another little cliché. :P

Did you seriously write all that out, damn dude

I burst out into laughing at the "DISLIKE" part. Now I feel a lot less frustrated about my dislikes. :twilightsmile:

2716386
I liked the dislikes part myself. I wish I heard that way earlier.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

2716235

It's a modified version of the script she had for herself.

As long as people realize that they CAN and WILL make shitty stories, and that sometimes they NEED to be able to take constructive criticism and not cry and whine and (my biggest pet peeve) reply back with paragraphs of reasons why their story is actually good when it's not, or doesn't have the obvious problems that it does, they will learn and grow and eventually succeed. If not than they can continue to whine and find excuses and I will not care.

Thanks for the advice :) Good stuff.

2720382
lectures on this topic have been posted before

Oh man, I had that "where did you go" experience when an author took down his cross-over story. It had everything: action, humor, meme, war, love, and a little non-descriptive love-making. So many people like it, and I was going to show my friend it, but the author took it down after finishing it late 2012 because "he wasn't pleased with it." which stinks because he did this to MOST of his stories both in Fimfiction and Pastebin. With no torrent, the story is lost forever.
RIP Good Story, and stories that the wiki told me he wrote but found out they are also gone into the ether. :pinkiesad2::fluttershbad::raritydespair:

2716229
I really needed to read this after what happened today. Thank you for posting this.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

2720382

I posted it in a few places. Trying to see where it helps the most people. I believe i actually posted it here before when I got two groups mixed up. I'm not sure though as it would have been taken down for being inaccurately titled.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

2729176

That's just it. I was trying to figure out which groups allowed posting stuff like this and which responded. I had a few other groups that had responses. Did you want a list?

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

2729223

It is a kind of attention whoring scheme. I won't lie about that. But I want to find out how to attention whore efficiently so I don't bother many people with it.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

2729242


:applecry:
What I get for being honest I guess :ajsleepy:

2723288
ah then I dunno
if you can snag me the link I'll delete this thread

This is so applicable it's scary.

Comment posted by CaveRave deleted Feb 9th, 2014

I have the weird problem of having a featured story that I know is probably going to lose it's spot tomorrow. There are a lot of favorites but barely any comments.

It's diving me nuts — I don't know what anyone is thinking. And it's a story that I uploaded as an attempt at a resurrection or a burial: I wasn't planning on continuing despite initial intends to upload it as a serial.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

3088081

How did that turn out?

3137391 The coincidence is so strong. I actually just came back to this thread after I released an adaption of the V.D.C that had gotten absolutely no attention at all :P.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

This was a really nice read, and it did help me a bit :twilightsmile: my biggest problem is I keep falling into the trap of thinking I suck at writing and it's therefor I don't get views. It's something I need to stop doing :twilightsheepish:

I also have to agree with how dislikes are, some people do seem to dislike just because of silly reasons. I noticed when I had the "human" tag on one story, it instantly got some dislikes just because of that, as all my other stories are written just as well but they don't get quick dislikes (or as many). I doubt all are because of silly things, but I definitely take it as a factor in the equation :derpytongue2:

3311830

Yeah, I used to feel that way too. I used to think that, maybe the reason why I never get comments was because I'm a horrible writer and I'm not worth giving a comment.

But then I realized that most people would rather read the story than comment, because commenting requires them to actually do something. And making your audience do something is extremely difficult because most are fine with just reading and being lurkers.

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

3311830
3312036

Personally I always look at the like to view ratio. It tells me if people really like it and just didn't connect with some people (ala a high like to view ratio), or if it didn't provoke a response at all (low like to view ration and low dislike ration). If there is a moderate amount of likes and a noticeable amount of dislikes it means I failed in some area.

My personal problem is that I work on a story, get it mostly done, then assume no one will like anyway and it stays a bit from being finished simply because its easy to find other things to do. It's a weird I write to write but I post because popular issue mixed with a lack of confidence.

3330161 I even have to take the like/dislike ratio to views with a huge grain of salt. It doesn't really tell you how well you wrote something. It only tells you it appealed to people. I have a story with 1400 views and 231 likes and 6 dislikes. Successful story sure, but I put the least amount of effort, thought, and time into it. It is definitely not my best story. But, because it's really silly, random, and short-digest, it's very appealing for people to read quickly and get a laugh. If it made them laugh or smile, they're definitely going to like it, because they are in a good mood after all. Same goes for stories giving people feels, or stories with mushy romance, and of course stories with sex. Those are the four sides that secures likes, execute them even half-decently and you're assured a ton of likes and/or dislikes.

Not that the likes/dislikes can't say anything, but really, if you add in the four things I said, it changes everything. If you don't have one of the four, the amount of people who will like/dislike are much, much fewer for sure.

This is definitely the case for my first fic, and soon to be finished novel :rainbowlaugh: I knew I was going up stream right off the bat because it focuses on two OC characters and is an adventure story (Much later on I added romance tag to it because it's first later on it's obvious something is there). Neither one is popular and both makes people less likely to want to read it (judging from all the time I've read stories on the site and see which pops up as popular and in the feature). Adventure can make it big, but usually it requires it to have a crossover from another universe people like, characters from MLP which people love, or other heavy focuses (like the four popular ones I mentioned before) straight up adventure with two OC's who are just additions to the MLP universe, with only little bits of humor, tragedy, and romance here and there, and I knew before I even put a word on the page that my story would never really be popular :twilightsmile: It never bothered me though, I still started it, and soon I'll finish it, because I just wanted to tell a story, and a handful of people loves my story, which is all I will ever need :pinkiehappy:

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

3330170

The thing is, there are two ways to look at it. Either you wrote something people like, or you craft a piece of art. Sometimes you do both but either one is rewarding in it's own right.

3330183 That is very beautifully said, and I think it's very true as well :derpytongue2:

This...actually helps :pinkiehappy:

3330183

Either you wrote something people like, or you craft a piece of art.

* cough * clop * cough *

Everybody loves clop .... everybody ... they're good for instant homepage features.

2716229

OMG. I did all these things! (Except #5, though. I'm waaaaay too :fluttershyouch: for it. In fact, I tried to pull all the greatest courage providers just to post this comment)

Thank you for...uh.... saying these. I kinda feel dumb 'cause of my weak....heart. I really like the "Dislike" part because I almost stopped writing when I got a hand of dislikes. :fluttercry: Oh, and the "taking your story a hostage" thingy. I do that. :ajsmug:

Thank you! :rainbowkiss:

P.S. Now I feel awesome. :pinkiecrazy:

Piquo Pie
Group Contributor

4922135

Glad it helped :rainbowdetermined2:

(That doesn't make it unoriginal, because NOTHING is original anymore ;P).

Ecclesiastes proves as much. We were lamenting "nothing new under the sun" millennia before we'd even invented sitcoms, after all. :ajsmug:

That's a good list with many helpful points. Nothing outstanding or revelatory, but a friendly reality check doesn't have to be. I think one of the things that helps is a degree of self-awareness. Myself, I used to worry about the lack of comments, and wondered if that meant people were reading and not liking my story. Then, I caught myself reading stories and doing exactly the same thing, even in cases when I actually kinda liked them. When I started out years ago, I also used to wonder about the high-views-low-upvotes ratio until I noticed even the best stories had it, so I learned it was actually pretty normal.

I think another major part of the problem is simply that, without knowing what's going on, my mind just can't settle on a conclusion and I start speculating randomly. It's also frustrating when I think something's wrong with my work, but I don't have a clue where to look. I start to suspect everything. In those cases, it's probably just wiser to wait until something concrete shows up - or just find a willing reviewer and ask them for an opinion - and not try to second-guess other people's responses. People are simply too diverse.

Looking down the list, I've never done 6 or 5. Self-promotion isn't something that comes naturally to me, and I usually avoid doing it if I can't see how to make it not appear crude or intrusive. I've only tried a mild form of 2 once*, though that was on another site. I've been guilty of violating the others, though. Dislikes in particular make me a little nervous because they can't easily be passed off as neutral the same way, say, an absence of comments can be.

That said, I once had a fic get bombed on arrival by downvotes. At first, I thought I'd made a spectacular blunder, but then another user - of his own free will, I should emphasize - blogged about it, and not only did the upvotes come in quickly, but a lot of the downvotes disappeared. I wonder if it was just a matter of luck who got to the fic first, though I still can't explain where the downvotes disappeared to.

Just goes to show, I guess. This list has given me food for thought, and not a little encouragement. I'll definitely bear these points in mind - at least, as well as my memory allows - when I post my next story. If nothing else, it'll keep things in perspective.


*After a few chapters with no feedback, I posted that I wouldn't continue a fic if no one was going to read it. I was promptly assured by a couple of users that they at least were interested enough, so out of gratitude I kept going. I hasten to add that this was a long, long time ago, and in hindsight I'm actually embarrassed at how "bratty" I must have looked at the time, though I don't think I was actually making an ultimatum so much as toying with a towel I might throw. Unfortunately, the site in question has long since disappeared into the ether, so I can't go back and check.

Piquo Pie, I just wanted to say thank you for mentioning to just leave a blog link in the end. I never thought of that and it's a terrific idea.

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