When I was watching the Ending of the End, and the big magical finale was happening to beat the bad guys, something curious happened.

Grogar's Bewitching Bell, used to power up the baddies and currently holding the magic of Discord and the Two Sisters, begins to briefly crack. At this moment I saw a spark of potential, a chance at some actual decent story that might have been possible. Imagine that with the most powerful concentration of friendship magic in the history of the world, the bell is destroyed and the villains are defeated, however... Celestia and Luna's magic, as well as Discord's, is lost forever with the artifact.

Try to think about what that would be like. By the end of the battle, no one has died, but the princesses of the sun and moon are effectively "lost". Their retirement and Twilight's replacement of them suddenly makes some sense, but it's a sacrifice, a scar of the battle, showing that it had real lasting consequences and stakes. They'll never go back to the way things were, the status quo is gone for good.
More than that, Discord gets some well-deserved consequences for his own awful actions (not just in this finale, but through the whole series). He's not imprisoned or hated, he simply has to live out his days without magic, and I'm sure the ponies would be happy to let him. He'd hate it, but it's not like anyone decided it for him. It was his own fault. And both of these things, while seeming major, obviously don't matter to the story as a whole because the series is basically over.

It's not much in the grand trashfire that was the finale, but I think this one detail I didn't even deliberately come up with actually patches up quite a lot of issues. What do you think?

Not a bad idea. It's certainly better than Discord getting away scot-free and even deciding the Legion of Doom's punishment.

It would save the trio from getting petrified at the very least.

It really makes the retirement stuff worse and the "damage' Discord's plan done to the Royal Sisters even worse.
Luna has it worse due to she didn't get to enjoy dream-guarding/raising the moon/being the princess of the night for much long.
This right here would add so much salt to her wounds right there.
It felt like it makes the sisters look morel like "failures" too due to they lost their magic for good.

It just.. it really makes the send-off for Celestia and (especially) Luna much worse, at least for me..

7268932
I'd certainly considered having Discord lose his powers that way. Not so sure about Celestia and Luna, unless that gizmo they made Twilight is enough to handle the sun and moon permenantly. (Star Swirl will know the old unicorn spells, of course, but the cost of them is too high.)

7268939
Well, unless Silverstream sics her cockatrice on them.

7268932
Brilliant... just brilliant. Still, it wouldn’t solve the horrible plot twist of Discord being Grogar. It would’ve been great to see, but if that detrimental element remains there, it’s still a NO from me.

7268948
Oh boy...

7268951
While I like Discord would face actual consequences/punishment and no longer be able to cause ANY trouble anymore but..
The sisters losing their magic for good would be Discord's plan screwed them over EVEN FURTHER. That's just.. makes everything worse.

7268959
It will at least teach them some darn lesson about sacrifice and victory. I mean... no sacrifice, no victory. Granted, none of that would’ve happened if some idiot didn’t decide to tarnish Grogar’s great legacy and endanger ALL of Equestria by bringing its deadly foes together!

But yeah, I see your point.

7268960
Luna is definitely not going to take it well compared to Celestia there.

7268962
Uh-huh.

That sounds good. I’m not sure Discord will be okay without chaos magic as we have seen what happens if he doesn’t do anything chaotic as he will disappear. There can be debates whether the magic from the gizmo can still work or not to move the sun and moon.

7268968
I think that rule of "he must cause chaos or disappear" is not in affect if his power is nullified(like being turned to stone for a 1000 years) or he lost it.
Like the disappearing part is caused by his powers themselves if he doesn't do chaos.

As for the amulet, I think it will work for a bit until it runs out of "power" there.
Like it needs to be recharged by the sisters pretty much.

7268932
And the worst for Discord: He will Live for eternity without his powers, talk of a terrible punition. Yes, even without his magic, Discord still immortal (age won't kill him, because he is the embodiment of Chaos.)

I also asked myself about what would happen if the Bell broke and what would happen to the magic inside it...I came with the idea that the Bell is just a container for magic. This is my theory, but if the bell happen to break, the magic inside may will still get free, but in another way: Instead of coming back to their owner, the magic get uncontrollable and cause chaos and destruction. example: the Chaos magic or the Alicorn magic, fuse with the Weather, or the magic of the other creatures, putting everyone, the villains included, in danger of a magical apocalypse that could destroy Equestria.

I will say it again, this is my theory. Free to you to keep your idea, but you can also take mine in consideration.( You are not forced, i am just giving you an idea.)

7268951
If he is not, does he really deserve to lose all his magic?

7268932
I love it.
7268941
I get that. And I'd be sorry to see the sister's (or at least Luna) lose their magic too, but by enabling Discord they've already (in a way) brought this on themselves.

7268975
If he actually did something that DIDN'T involve breaking out Equestria’s dangerous villains and boosting their evil egos and thus endanger all of Equestria for the sake of teaching Twilight a lesson, then no, he doesn’t.

7268988
What do you mean by enable?
By setting Discord free or the whole retirement crap?
Celestia might have had the idea of both stuff but not Luna, she apparently can't oppose Celestia in anything in decisions like that(and apparently just suddenly wanting to retire in the retirement case there. Its just so iffy..)

7268991
That's why I said I would regret seeing Luna lose her powers. Unfortunately life's not always fair. Just because Celestia is the one who made the decision to free Discord, doesn't mean she is the only one who's suffered or will suffer because of it.

7268994
Luna really doesn't deserve to suffer that though.
And that's basically it? Luna is just screwed over big time and nothing happens after that for her?

7268998
Luna's screwed by virtue of being Celestia's sister. As you point out she has no say so in her own life and we've seen Celestia ignore or take her for granted on dozens of occasions. Admittedly this scenario isn't perfect but quite frankly nothing in MLP was by this point.

Honestly the happiest ending Luna could hope for, is to get as far away from her sister as possible. At least with her powers gone, there's no longer any cosmic impetus Celestia can use to justify keeping Luna by her side.

7269006
She is definitely not going to take it well that her powers are gone like that.

Its going to get really ugly in the aftermath..

Well, IMO Discord has been WAY OP since day 1. Reducing/eliminating his powers is all to the good. But, if Celestia & Luna lose their powers, who will raise & lower the sun & the moon?

7269014
There's a device we see in Dawn to Dusk and in Summer Sun Setback that was created by Celestia and Luna injecting a bit of their magical power into a custom made dial. We've seen it move the sun in both episodes.

7268932
It also keeps the bell from being a problem again in the future.

7269023
I think the amulet has a finite charge there.
Like it needs the sisters to keep "recharging" it after some time I think.

7268941
Yeah, though, the timeline of the show is...weird. I highly doubt only a year has passed

7268991
I mean, maybe she just wants a break from having to deal with stuffy nobles, doesn't mean she still can't do her dream guard duties

7269070
I never saw anything to that regard in show. I always imagined they had permanently endowed a small portion of their magic inside so it would be available to her during their vacation. Did you notice something that lead you to believe differently?

7268974
Idea, what if the magic escapes....and goes to the wrong beings. Like Celestia and Luna get eachother's magic, or Discord's

7268939
So they can threaten Equestria again?

7269073
Even then, Luna didn't enjoy her "destiny" much compared to Celestia.
Heck, her raising the moon got overshadowed with how Celestia did it for a 1000 years.

7269077
It doesn't make sense on why couldn't they make the amulet in the first place to do the raising the sun/moon thing.
It would make the sisters pointless unless of course the amulet needs to be "recharged" by them
And the fact Jim said apparently the sisters gave up their powers of the sun/moon upon giving their crowns to Twilight.(Which pisses me off since Luna never got to enjoy her "talent" for much long and yet she apparently has to give that up) Like why the heck would they do that if they gave her the amulet.

7269076
Really wished Luna did return to the throne(speaking of that.. she just got her actual throne in the movie/season 8 and yet it doesn't stay for long since she has to give that up too. Its just doesn't seem right..). She didn't get to enjoy being the princess of the night for much long in a way.

7268974
It raises a fearful question on what happens to Luna and Celestia now that their magic is gone for good.

7269084

(Which pisses me off since Luna never got to enjoy her "talent" for much long and yet she apparently has to give that up)

I hear you. There was no where near enough of Luna governing for my taste. A great change to the series would've been if they finished refurbishing the castle of the two Sisters and instead of staying in Canterlot, Luna decided to strike out on her own and live there. It was never going to happen, but it would've been nice to have a excuse to bring her into the show more often.

As for the medallion thing, the fact that such a artifact could easily be abused was proberbly the reason they held off on making it, until a era of relative peace and prosperity came, where it would be safe to have such a thing laying around.

Also being the only person to have the power to move the sun or moon would make the wielder indispensable, which is proberbly why they proberbly they gave up their powers to Twilight (it gives her reign legitimacy).

7269107
Dumping their powers on Twilight is not exactly a good idea either due to she would be more stressed out in her job.
She honestly doesn't need to take whats practically the sisters' freaking destinies to give her legitimacy.
She has legitimacy in the form of being able to invoke the rainbow laser of doom and the whole magic of friendship stuff(and apparently being the tree of harmony's "chosen one" with how things went). And the fact she literally ends up succeeding where the sisters sadly fail when some crisis happens.

7269111

Dumping their powers on Twilight is not exactly a good idea either due to she would be more stressed out in her job.

Dumping their reign on Twilight is not exactly a good idea either. They still did it. I am not defending the final. I've had doubts about the show since Discord was "reformed" and Season 8 confirmed those doubts in the most irritating way possible. I am simply trying to look at it from the characters perspectives in a way that might make sense to them.

She has legitimacy in the form of being able to invoke the rainbow laser of doom and the whole magic of friendship stuff(and apparently being the tree of harmony's "chosen one" with how things went). And the fact she literally ends up succeeding where the sisters sadly fail when some crisis happens.

Sure, but it appears for most modern day ponies your legitimacy is cemented by the magic you can perform and how visible you are, not by the good you can do. And we don't actually know if the elements will even work further on down the road after Twilights friends start dying. Warning spoilers contain sadness.

7269080
So they can get the second chance that Discord and Starlight got.

7269023
I thought that it was sort of "plugged in" to them & ran off their power. Even if it doesn't directly run off their power, it will need to be recharged eventually.

7269132

I thought that it was sort of "plugged in" to them & ran off their power. Even if it doesn't directly run off their power, it will need to be recharged eventually.

I mean we've seen plenty of magical artifacts that have their own power source (Magic Duel, School Raze) and we know that unless magic is deliberately transferred or burned up it tends not to run out (Horse Play). So I don't see why the dial would run out of power to raise the sun and the moon if it was the sister's magic powering it.

7269084
Her dreamwakling isn't nescessarily a "power of the moon".

7269136
No but it wouldn't be a tragedy without some legitimate loss would it?

7268932
Plus it would affect Twilight, I mean she accidentally erase Celestia's, Luna's and Discord's magic. How will it affect her that the Magic of Friendship permanently erase 2 of her friends and one Numbskull's magic? Will she refuse to use it again after what she did?

7269160
Now that's a thought. Some very interesting ideas for a story there (if it's done well anyway).

7269113
Dumping their reign on her is one thing, but giving up whats part of their Cutie Marks onto her makes it pretty worse.

7269136
It might as well be due to its part of her duties has the princess of the night.
Apparently people think Luna dumps her dream-guarding stuff on Twiligh too.

7269171
One of Luna's reactions would probably be sheer bitterness at Celestia(because of the retirement thing and Discord), Discord(for his plans causing this) and even Twilight(for the whole retirement thing and the fact she didn't even include the sisters in the rainbow laser despite they wielded the Elements before too).
She would be so consumed in sadness/grief as one of the things that would happen in the aftermath.

7269176

Dumping their reign on her is one thing, but giving up whats part of their Cutie Marks onto her makes it pretty worse.

Meh Cutie Marks are pretty subjective anyway. We've seen ponies with sun and moon Cutie Marks before and none of them move the sun.

7269180

She would be so consumed in sadness/grief as one of the things that would happen in the aftermath.

Maybe or she could beat the odds and come out stronger for it. She's done it before. Overcoming Nightmare Moon and it's stigma, and later her guilt about the whole thing, only to come back and actual play a semi-involved role in Season 8. Not to mention putting up with Celestia for all that time. If any one could beat the loss of their magic I am fairly confident it's Luna.