(Comes across the following WMG whilst foolishly browsing TvTropes once again)

Sonata Dusk is secretly the evilest of The Dazzlings.
Or rather, she's not as dumb as she seems. Although she portrays herself as the ditz, Sonata is actually just as competent as Adagio Dazzle. There are several key points in the film, as well as the audio commentary, that can support this. Point one: If she doesn't have her usual smile on, Sonata usually mirrors the others' expressions, or has the most devious expression out of the three during their group shots for their songs. Even off-stage, she manages to have a psychotic smirk when The Dazzlings have their nastier moments. In particular, during Welcome to the Show, she has the most Psychotic Smirk when they show The Dazzlings side-by-side after summoning their true forms. Point two: When The Dazzlings manipulated Trixie into trapping the Rainbooms, Sonata cinches in how the Rainbooms wouldn't be able to perform if they held out or couldn't make to their set. Even VP of Development, Mike Vogel, mentions that "she seems like she's being dumb, but she gives exactly the right thing to say." Point three: Back to Welcome to the Show, it cuts to their astral projections several times during the battle. If you pay attention to Sonata's, her true form has a glare that usually almost on par with the others. Cut to the last shot, it is downright death-glaring to match up with the others. Perhaps she was secretly planning a coup d'etat before their gems were shattered?

Me: (starting at 0:22)

IDK why, but it annoys me how, according to THAT SITE anyways, the reason a certain offset of people think a certain villain isn't as bad as she seems is simply related to how "dumb" she is (whether she is actually stupid or not is a matter for another thread in this group but whatever). Almost implying that if an antagonist is dumb, they may not be all that bad, or at least that's how us EEDIOT viewers or readers will think of the character.

First and formost: I AM COMPLETELY AWARE THAT STUPID, LEGITIMATELY EVIL VILLAINS EXIST.
Second: If I believe there's some kind of naivete to Sonata (and I do), I don't attribute it to her less incompetent moments so much as the inconsistancy between her obviously more cruel moments (see above) and, well...


Third: Relating to the last point, I do sometimes debate whether or not this chick has some sort of split personality thing going on...
Fourth: Anyone know how to QUIT Tv Tropes Cold Turkey? All it does is make me upset with its cynicism now...
Fifth: (Actually relevant to this conversation) Note that I said SOME of us. Naturally some people LIKE how she's evil, or at least stands out from the other Dazzlings. I'm keeping up with a comic right now that portrays Sonata as the EPITOME of "Cute and Psycho". Hypocritical of me? A little, but in my defense, the crazy Sonata bits don't start up til the 10th or 12th page. By that point I was hooked on the story.
And finally, Sixth: For those of us who do see her as an innocent of sorts- good, naive, doesn't know any better, what have you- what are your reasonings for this? A particular scene or expression, a gut feeling, overexposure to her fanart, what?

I was thinking this myself.

Of course, it was with considerably less of TV Tropes' amusing puns, and with language more along the lines of a drunken sailor who stubbed his toe, but it's close enough.

HOWEVER. I don't think you can just say that she's the "most evil". It just means that you can't say she's the least.

As for number four, I never found it that hard. It, and the people who quote it so incessantly, are obnoxious. Nothing personal.

I just think she lures you in by being cute and waifish, then, when you least expect it, BAM, you're not leaving until she's had as many snuggles as she wants.

3921597 What can I say? Cute can be very deadly sometimes, also it's not wise to take everything they say to seriously as they are expressing how they want things to be. I personally see something in Sonata that I can quite explain that makes me feel that she can turn things around and follow a better path.

Maybe I am wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last. She just strikes me as having some redeeming qualities, unlike Adago, and Aria.

I'm not really sure... I like her, because of her craziness. Don't really care if it's evil or good. But if I go with her being good, I use the Orange and Purple morality argument. In that she doesn't really think what she does is evil, but just right in her unique mindset. She is right in her mind, because she was taught that way. I know it comes up as flawed, but she does feed on hate. It really wouldn't be too far fetched to say she does it to survive only. As to the evil glare, I've been known to give an equally evil glare when I am about to feast on a crap ton of food. Plus, I don't think the Dazzlings are evil at all. Not many of the villains are, because they do have lengths they will stop at. None, other than Tirek and Chrysalis, would kill or permanently dispose of the ponies. They were misguided(Or simply deluded) souls that wanted to rule, feed, or be adored. Now if they were evil, than the first would indeed be a good thing for them. But the last two, that would be something only ponies who care would have as goals. Even Chrysalis cares for her Changelings, to take on a goddess, to feed her hive. Would an evil being do it for the purpose of feeding the hungry? Not really. Survival is a grey action as well, not inherently evil or good. And becoming power hungry isn't really evil, just a case of too much of a good thing. Tirek is the only evil entity in MLP as he stooped to every depth to try and get the alicorns powers. Even betraying Discord when it behoved him, that is evil.

I don't think she's evil I think that she's just a follower.

3921597 Point 2: I thought that had planned what to say to Trixie, like Adagio had told Sonata to "accidentally" give Trixie an idea to sabotage the Rainbooms.

Anyway, I like the idea how she just doesn't care about anything. Sonata might have been along for the ride, not entirely focused on the goal at hand, as seen by her wanting for lunch and stuff.

I don't agree... I still think she's just adorable, naive, and adorably naive and probably has no idea that what she's doing is wrong.

3921597

Sonata Dusk is secretly the evilest of The Dazzlings.
Or rather, she's not as dumb as she seems. Although she portrays herself as the ditz, Sonata is actually just as competent as Adagio Dazzle.

This... sounds like overcompensation to fan consensus in the other direction. Sonata's been called a ditz in more than one place by now, and frankly I think those people have a better case than those who try to argue the above.

That said, as usual with these sorts of things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If she were really an idiot, she'd be falling all over herself. She's clearly cognizant of who she is, where she is, and what she needs to do. But where Adagio's always playing Thinking Of The Future Mastermind and Aria is the Always In The Present Executer, Sonata's the only one of the three with less of a focus on Pointed Tasks and more on just... everything.

She's on point with the other two, she just doesn't play the same Witty Villainry card as the other two. Which is good because can you imagine if she did? The Dazzlings go from lovable antagonists to psycho tryhards.

That said, I think Sonata could be redeemed, sure. But you're not going to get to her without a whole lot of convincing as to what's in it for her. And no, Friendship(tm) or anything else won't be enough if she doesn't already give a crap about you first. In other words (downvotes imminent!) she will never be your waifu.

3921597
Sonata is kinda stupid, as far as we can see. Either that, or she's really good at playing dumb. However, she'd have to be really, really, really stupid to not realize that what the three do is bad for everyone else after a thousand years of doing it, or she'd have to be totally delusional. I always figured she's just as "evil" as the other two, she's just dumb. All of them show zero concern for any but one another. I could be missing something, though. If anyone has any solid theories about her not being evil, I'd like to hear them.

3921597

Personally, I think she was just in it for the laughs. Just to laugh at how serious Adagio and Aria take everything, and then she got dragged into the end game unfortunately. I bet for most of the time she was like this...

I too can share and maybe repeat some valid points.

First point: If Sonata were to be putting on a facade, why would she when nopony was around besides her group?

Second Point: (more relevant to my Dazzling theory) if the spirits of the Sirens are contained in the necklace (why they didn't attempt immediate takeover) and they are "normal girls" the Sirens themselves have nothing to do with Sonata.

Point Three: SHE'S FREAKIN' ADORABLE!

3923187

If Sonata were to be putting on a facade, why would she when nopony was around besides her group?

No, really, this is a good point. It'd be one thing if ditzy and carefree was her cover when they infiltrated the school, except from what we've seen, it's her default mode.
(Which kind of makes it funnier how the other Sirens during the tour with Sunset were basically like, "Hello, friends. We are perfectly normal human worm-babies. You have nothing, absolutely nothing to fear from us. Just pay no attention to us and we'll get along just fine." )

3924231

Ee-yup!

Sonata is genuinely stupid, but that doesn't make her suspicious! I'm currently working on a Sonata/Dazzlings story myself! It explains my Siren Spirits theory.

3924231

Also, when she says, "We sing,like, all the time! It's how we get people to do what we want!" it's pretty clear that she didn't mean to say that. She basically reveals the entire plan to Sunset, and if you were just playing stupid, you wouldn't say things like that.

3922373

See my above theories.

3921597

Most of these points would fit this pony better:

3921597 This, 3922333, times one million.

3929465

3923187

Nefarious raisins.

3921597

'Cause she's cute and charming. Tends to disarm suspicion, regardless whether or not it's an act. Though I tend to agree that it's not.

3921597 O my on the Fifth point,you were talking about ''A Dazzling Winter'' right?

3934899
That's the one.

3921597
Because it seems like she couldn't care less about what her partners are doing, so long as she benefits or is kept safe. I think that's it. Basically, she's not as hostile to the inhabitants of Earth or Equestria, she apparently feeds off of them only to survive, as far as anybody can tell.

3935390
I'm the artist. Nice to meet you ;)

3936261

... uh, hi! Love your work! Nice to meet you too.

3921597 I don't know about that. Here's the tl;dr version of those paragraphs: "The majority of the time, Sonata is as smart as her compatriots. In addition, she says one intelligent thing." So no, I'm not swayed. The point of those so-called flashes of brilliance is to show that Sonata is aware of the immorality of they're doing, and despite her cute ditziness, is complicit beyond a shadow of doubt.

3921597
"Because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

3943449
So, wait, do you agree with any of that, or... I wasn't quite clear on what you were getting at there.

3943552
I love that movie!

3943806 The WMG is complete bunk; the "evidence" proves that Sonata is competent, but nothing more.

Now, to me I know Sonata is evil, just like the rest. But, even though she was giving off evil smirks and death glares, it is also possible that she was just following along with her sisters/companions. In most of the movie, she has a big smile on her face while making idiotic comments. I don't know why but, this classes me as innocent. And yes, I completely understand how you would think that she has some insane side to her but, she seems like she just doesn't know that she's bad.

I think that Adagio and Aria have been making her think that she is doing the things she does for the better of the world or otherwise to SURVIVE!!!!

That's my thoughts on the matter.