Most of the internet's made it abundantly clear the MLP fandom's place in history is marred by degeneracy, but I'm not sure I can agree it was as bad as they claim. I was around in 2012 when things were really heating up with season 2. At the time, I was only 14, about to turn 15. While I knew there were massive amounts of NSFW content, I honestly didn't see many stories about people in the fandom being outed as predators. It wasn't something I really saw happen. I'm sure it did on occasion like all fandoms, but it really didn't seem any worse than anything else. The same thing happened to Minecraft and Sonic, but people still love and respect those franchises. What was different here? I really don't know.

7939346
Grown men liking horses.

Every fandom has their fucked up side, and it's very easy to focus on the negative aspects. When a fandom becomes so large that it encompasses the internet, running into the occasional degenerate is inevitable. That doesn't mean fans should be generalized, but people will do that anyways because of preconceived biases.

7939359
I figured that might be part of it, but even big name streamers now drag it up as the worst humanity has to offer. It never really seemed that way to me as someone who was actively involved in the fandom for quite a long time.

7939361 Speaking as a degenerate, I don't see how my stories and my presence would negatively affect you. The corner of MLP fandom that you fell in love with still exists as it did before. The existence of NSFW stuff is just an added feature. Nothing to be concerned about.

As for the outsiders, they weren't fond of MLP fandom even before we degenerates joined. You will never get them on board, no mater what.

7939378
The concerning thing is, I was usually pretty aware when predators were exposed in other fandoms. It was big news all over the internet at the time, yet one of the fandoms I was involved in, I was completely oblivious. I literally only saw posts about that kind of thing happening once or twice during the entire run of the series. How didn't I know? And I always advocate for freedom of artists and writers to make what they want. I grew up on metal and horror movies, so the NSFW stuff didn't even faze me, but now I'm left to wonder what unintended consequences came about as a result. I actually just got in touch with someone who was groomed, and up until today I had no idea. Where does the line end between artistic freedom and personal responsibility. That's part of the reason I stopped writing that kind of stuff. I didn't want it used to justify actual harm being done to people.

7939386 The way I see it, art is unconnected with the artist.

I don't care if Shakespeare was a child molester. That doesn't reduce the quality of his work. The same way I could enjoy his work in the past, I could still enjoy them even after learning that he was a shitty human.

There will always be bad people out there. The fandom and art has nothing to do with that fact.

7939390
It's a valid point, but it's also easier to take a death of the artist approach when they're actually dead. The people responsible for using MLP content nefariously are still alive physically, and who knows how many have actually been caught as opposed to the ones still roaming free. I've seen it in the Sonic fandom plenty of times. At the very least, the sheer quantity's unnerving in itself. Beyond reporting suspected abuse, there's nothing much we can really do. That's the real scary part.

7939392 Again, I don't see how that is connected to the fandom in any way. Just like there are vegans in every organization imaginable, so too are there pedophiles and rapists in all the fandoms. A percentage of the population is bad, and you get that percentage in every population.

Sure, some populations have a higher percentage of bad people. For instance, statistics show that if you're a Christian, you're more likely to be a criminal than if you're not. But still, the majority of Christians aren't criminals. Just like the majority of bronies aren't abusers.

I think you're getting too personally involved with this issue. Just let the police handle those people. That's what they're here for. Let them do their job while fulfilling your own personal purpose. If you think your personal calling is to hunt pedophiles, go become a cop. If not, let it go. Do what you enjoy doing, and stop obsessing about things that bring you down. It's that simple.

7939419
The reason it's hard to let go for me is because I've been in similar positions. A couple family friends molested me during my formative years. One of them coaxed me into it by showing me one of my brother's porno mags. Intentionally exposing minors to mature content is one of the ways predators take advantage of them. That's why I have to call everyone's roles into question. Obviously I'm mad at the people who did it, but how much responsibility does my brother bear for having it hidden somewhere easy to find? How much responsibility do the distributors and parents have to make sure it stays out of the hands of kids? A lot of teens used to steal their parents' porn stashes without them knowing or find them discarded in random places. When we choose to put out that type of content, we're taking a risk that someone will try to use it for evil purposes. It's one of the reasons people encourage parents to keep their kids off social media. The fact of the matter is, there's an inherent risk being around other people. It's gotten a lot more dangerous since the internet took over, because we can't physically stop them like we used to be able to. There's a whole lot of emotions and uncertainties that go into situations like this. I'm never really sure what to think.

7939346
I agree that many people are predators on here, I don’t like it

7939438 The availability of NSFW material is not the cause. People are the cause.

You could purge all porn from the Universe, and people will still molest children.

I and everybody around me were exposed to porno magazines and NSFW videos when I was a child, and nobody molested me.

It's the same in your case. It wasn't the material that led to your molestation. People are the cause of your molestation.

Without molesters, there would be no molestation, even if the world was drowning in porn.

The bottom line is, you're not going to change the world. The world will be as it is now. For the sake of your mental health, it's best that you accept the world as it is.

7939496
I know I can't change it. The only thing I can change is myself. That's why my last few stories have severely shifted in style. I can't make reality better, but I can create worlds where it can be.

7939346

My dear, when I discovered ponies and joined this site in 2016, I was 29. People like me were and still are seen by many as sick and/or crazy. I've lost count of how many times I read something like:

"He must be gay/trans/pedo/[put your favorite insult here] because no 'normal' adult dude would ever watch stuff for kids - especially stuff targeting little girls! And some of them are 'clopping' to that! Only a psycho would do that!"

Outsiders had issues with people like me from the start. And since many 'Bronies' were adult males... well, you can see the problem

IMHO, that's the primary reason why this fandom has such a bad rap in many places. The entire, 'MLP fandom is full of fascists!' debacle didn't help matters either...

Reality is something closer to this:

1. EVERY fandom of EVERY show has tons of NSFW stories - including stories with minor characters.

Before MLP, I was part of Sonic fandom... porn was EVERYWHERE, including stuff like TailsXCream (both underage characters). Same with Pokemon, same with everything. MLP is not special in that regard whatsoever. And yet, MLP fandom is the only one often portrayed as full of pedos for some reason...

2. EVERY fandom has a 'predator problem' to a certain extent. It may be more noticeable here because many people on this and other MLP sites are minors, so it's easier for pedos to 'fish.' But unless someone can provide some HARD EVIDENCE, which I haven't seen yet, I'll keep saying that MLP is not unique here.

3. This fandom did a lot of GOOD over the years, including stuff like: charities, educating people how to draw and write, encouraging people to read stuff, etc.). Of course, you'll never hear that part from people who throw wild accusations. Go figure...

The bottom line is that unless someone can provide HARD evidence to the contrary, I'll keep on saying that MLP fandom gets a lot of bad rap over nothing.

As for the artist's responsibility for his stuff... I'm sorry, but this is a topic that irks me. Person A and B made a child C, and suddenly, I, as a writer, am to be responsible for what C can find on the net, and should have my freedom of expression limited? Sorry, but this should be the parent's problem, not everyone else's. There is software - both for phones and PCs - that does filter bad stuff pretty well.

Of course, kids will bypass it once they get older, but that's a different story .

7939597
Part of the reason I posted was because I wanted to have a fair and nuanced conversation about the issue, and you're right parents should monitor their kids better, but that's not always possible. My mom couldn't do anything about what happened to me because she wasn't there. She was at work making sure we had food and a roof over our heads. I was in the care of people we thought we could trust, and they took advantage of that. I know it's not a unique situation, but I worry about the future where predators start luring kids away from home like Jin Bop tried to do. They're exploiting teenage rebellion to destroy people's lives. It's hard to help someone when they don't want your help, ya know?

7939496
It warms my heart to still see you bopping around here, even after my long hiatus, Dragon. It's refreshing to see a face from so long ago.

7939689 Nice to see you too. I kept following you, even after your long absence in hopes that you would return. Fortunately, unlike OP, you don't seem to have any problem with the fandom, given that you return to it every year or so.

7939627

I understand, and I'm sorry if what I said sounded harsh - it wasn't my intention. I'm also sorry what happened to you. But... like Bad Dragon said, and like you noticed - people did this. They might have used Playboy magazines as their aid, but in the end it was evil people doing evil stuff. Would they do that if they didn't have access to porn? We will never know. However...

The argument, 'if only they didn't have access to X, Y couldn't happen,' is old as dirt and probably will continue until the sun goes nova and kills us all. The problem with this kind of thinking is that it's based on a flawed assumption claiming, 'if there is a correlation, there must be causation.' Plus, it is used as a coverup for genuine reasons that are the root cause of the problem but are complicated and/or expensive to fix.

We went through that in the nineties when people calling themselves 'experts' tried to blame video games and movies for US school shootings and tried to ban the 'brutal' ones. Their argument basically came down to, 'If person A played Doom a lot, and later Columbine happened, Doom MUST BE to blame!'

It's a complicated topic, but in short, the studies have proven that while the correlation between games and shooting up schools was there, it was reversed. Games weren't causing it; they were stopping it for a while, acting like a safe valve for teens with shitty life and/or mental issues until that wasn't enough. If parents/school/whatever gave them the support they needed, the shootings most likely would never have occurred. But blaming video games is easier than fixing a broken school system .

When it comes to the argument that 'Porn is used in grooming children, therefore, porn is to blame,' I see similar issues. Illustrated porn is a rather modern invention. Does that mean that before that, there was no child grooming and no child rape? Or maybe it was there, but way lower than today? Well, AFAIK... the historical data is pretty clear on that one. Not only child sex and rape were wildly documented to exist back in ancient times, but back then, they were socially acceptable. Predators back then were probably using the good old method called. 'Let the child ask what's that funny thing between your legs.' They didn't have to make Hugh Hefner rich to do bad stuff .

Granted, we can discuss reasonable precautions for minors accessing various nasty stuff. In the case of video games, that discussion led to the development of the PG rating system. But that also demonstrates the problem because that system will only do you good IF the parent controls what the child is buying/playing. Nothing will help if people are irresponsible/evil.

Also, the question is... what is 'reasonable precaution' in the case of written/illustrated fiction?

1. Should all NSFW stuff require registration and age verification? If so, how would you verify age? What would stop a child from registering? How would you ensure that even if an adult registered the account, an adult - and not a child - is reading at the moment?
2. What about non-NSFW stories that try to tackle 'controversial' social issues? Should those be under the registration wall, too? If so, who would decide what is 'controversial' and what is not?
3. What about predators using non-NSFW, cute, and fluffy stories about 'Fluttershy meeting Rainbow Dash' to lure children in and perform the good old routine, 'Oh, you're ten? So am I! Let's meet after school!'? Should we also put fluffy stories after a registration wall because someone may use them to hurt a child (I bet this scenario already happened on FIMFiction and other pony sites).

This can go to infinity. And even if we decide to complete control because 'think of the children,' how would we enforce that? The only way I see it working is in case everything you upload, download, and read is monitored by a government/big tech for 'inappropriate' content, plus disallow usage of VPNs and make it criminal to use any P2P networks... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to give anyone such power .

Given all the above, I believe focusing on educating parents and children about the dangers of the net is the best approach and the only one that can realistically work in the long run. If parents are not up to the task, then, yeah... it sucks. But such is life.

7939808 You know what works even better than porn magazines? Candy. If we could only ban all candy on the planet, there would be no more abuse. :P

The Sun won't go supernova and kill us all. There's absolutely no chance of that, so that's not something we should worry about. The sun will actually turn into a red giant and kill us all.

7939390
W—what..? I would 100% care if Shakespeare was a child predator, and I think any sane person wouldn’t want to consume anything he ever touched once they realized that. Art is only separated from the artist to an extent, but let’s be honest, most art is a reflection of some inner portion of the person who created it. These things aren’t made in a vacuum.

7939823 Even if child molester Shakespeare's predatory inner mind is reflected in his works, it wouldn't be a turn-off for me. I love reading stories about murderers and villains.

When you hear a song on the radio, do you immediately jump onto Kivy Farm forums to check if the artist is a decent-enough person so that you know whether you're allowed to enjoy the music or not? That would be ridiculous. Music is either good or bad, and neither has anything to do with whom the author brushed her pussy against.

We have police who take care of criminals. We don't need to establish a cancel culture on top of that.

7939828
If I found out that an artist I enjoy is raping children, yes! Yes 100% I would immediately stop enjoying anything they have ever created. How is this even a debate? And then the example you bring up is just strange. Most people aren’t going to do research on every creator they come across, but that’s also not what we’re talking about? How is finding out that Shakespeare is a pedophile (hypothetically), and subsequently deciding to not consume anything he’s ever touched, have anything to do with cancel culture?

Morally, you should be concerned if you find out someone is a murderer, child rapist, etc. etc.. It should taint their work. You should feel sick at the thought of this person having any iota of public praise, having their art consumed by the masses, when behind the scenes they were committing such atrocities.

To reel it back to the initial discussion, the fact that some could be so blasé about the harm that certain creators of this fandom has had on the target demographic kind of speaks volumes. I’m not saying that mature MLP content shouldn’t be created (I make mature MLP content) but said content should only be consumed by a mature audience. But that’s just not the case for a vast majority of this fandom. A lot of predatory pony-related content is just out their in children’s space, some even disguised as innocent family friendly run-of-the-mill stuff, when really it’s a surprise gore fest or softcore pornography. No other fandom does that, not Sonic, not Harry Potter, not any number of popular IPs that have a healthy number of child and adult fans. You won’t find Sonic brutally slaughtering his friends on YouTube Kids, and it definitely wouldn’t be hidden behind a colorful cutesy thumbnail.

Not to mention the countless testimonies from little girls attending ponycons only to be approached by adult male fans asking them about their favorite characters, and if they can recite Fluttershy’s lines, or if they can touch their pretty pony tail—that’s freaking creepy! And it does happen, it has happened, and no, we shouldn’t pretend that it’s just a few bad apples because what? That’s not addressing the issue, if anything it’s trying to cover it up, which is concerning in of itself. I think it’s unfair to the numerous girls who had their space completely invaded—and I’m not talking about kids who wandered into adult fandom spaces, but I mean the adults who literally turned the public image of MLP into a violent, fetish-filled environment, even where children congregate.

7939738
Nah, as Prince Whateverer said, I'll die with the herd. Mlp is a huge part of my identity, and I'm going nowhere, even if I am a massive social recluse.

7939851
I think the problem is that you think by separating the art from the artist, you are endorsing or forwarding a sick agenda.

I do agree this is easier to do when someone is a corpse - even if a story is tainted by a disturbing rhetoric, a corpse can't hurt anyone - however I disagree with the notion that an entire body of work should be ignored because of an action only tangentially connected to that work. Because...

You're wrong about their work automatically forwarding a destructive or deviant narrative - and I mean truly deviant, not the "man, you're weird" usage. An artist can write a story entirely detached from their art or teachings. Would you like a prime example?

All of Ancient Greece and Rome.

No seriously. Relationships with young boys was not just legal, but expected back then. Does this mean the works of Greek philosophers mean nothing, because they engaged in fowl stuff? How about mathmaticians who helped unravel the secrets of the universe? Should we lay aside their teachings because they were icky? To get closer on brand: what about Greek authors and playwrites? Does The Odyssey lose value because Homor was likely into some disgusting things?

Accepting that bad people can accomplish great things is a reality one must accept, just as good people can and have done terrible things. Reality is not so black and white, and those who ignore something based on tangential evidence are doomed to be made worse for that. It is worth noting though, if a story or topic is openly supportive of that narrative, directly or indirectly, then I do agree it should be reconsidered. But not all stories are reflective of their authors ideals. Some are just neat stories.

But this isn't really the place for this discussion anyway. This is supposed to be a place of healing and support, not debating a topic like this.

7939851

Morally, you should be concerned if you find out someone is a murderer, child rapist, etc. etc.. It should taint their work.

I disagree.

Your way of doing things actually creates criminals because you punish them even for doing legal stuff. You deny them an opportunity to be good again. The only choice you leave them with is to be bad.

Should they pay for their crimes? Sure. But that's for the police and judges to handle, not you. And when that punishment is served, they should be given an opportunity for a new better life. But they don't get that opportunity because of people like you. Because of the cancel culture. You're the reason why there are so many bad people around. Instead of reforming the villains, you're turning them into super-villains.

TL;DR: I disagree with everything you said.

7939808
I kind of see your point. I'm writing a crossover fic with my own original novel right now. It tackles all kinds of dark themes like religious abuse, depression, alcoholism, domestic violence, grief, etc. These are things that happen in reality whether we like it or not. Treating them with respect and care makes a world of difference when it comes to making an impactful statement. The younger characters are borderline superhuman, but they're still human, susceptible to the same struggles and pitfalls we are. Life isn't pretty a lot of the time. Making people aware and giving them the tools to protect themselves is the best strategy we really have to offer.

7939875
I cannot tell if you are pulling my leg as a joke or if you seriously believe the things you just typed. Either way, you have a darkness about yourself that absolutely terrifies me. Just this vitriol and/or this need to defend things that are just so, so hideous. I want to believe you are a troll, I want to so badly believe you are trying to bait me into an argument to get a funny reaction out of me while you sit bored at your desk at the office. So to entertain yourself, you say such odd stuff on the forums.

Fine. I can relate. Totally understandable.

But then I am reminded of the countless time your name has come across my screen ,and just the awful things you say and do, most recently you tagged a foalcon fetish fic as E. I can’t seem to understand why anyone would ever do that unless they wanted children to come across it? And doesn’t such a predatory thing feel so relevant to this current discussion—

Anyway, I’ll leave that there. I need to remind myself when it’s a good time to call it quits, so here is where I end any further interaction with you.

7939895
Yeah, to be quite honest bad dragon is a troll. He once called me a cripple as a joke.

And calling someone a cripple, who is actually disabled, is very very wrong, I don’t know why he’s not banned yet, but he should be.

7939926
I’m very sorry he said that to you. Keep your head up and don’t allow such negativity to drag you down.

7939812

You know what works even better than porn magazines? Candy. If we could only ban all candy on the planet, there would be no more abuse. :P

Dude, stop giving them ideas! If anyone tries to ban candy, I swear to God, I'll gonna turn into a 'Candyman' and go after those who enacted that law !

Seriously, people, stay away from my caramel candy... and vodka .

The Sun won't go supernova and kill us all. There's absolutely no chance of that, so that's not something we should worry about. The sun will actually turn into a red giant and kill us all.

Gee, thanks. Knowing that I gonna sleep better tonight

7939884

These are things that happen in reality whether we like it or not. Treating them with respect and care makes a world of difference when it comes to making an impactful statement.

This is a bit off-topic, but I agree with that. If you want to make a statement and get somebody's attention, you can make it subtle or a sledgehammer. Being subtle works a lot better 9 out of 10 times because it doesn't alienate people.

Unfortunately, people prefer to use sledgehammers more and more these days, which is... pretty sad, really

7939851

I’m not saying that mature MLP content shouldn’t be created (I make mature MLP content) but said content should only be consumed by a mature audience. But that’s just not the case for a vast majority of this fandom. A lot of predatory pony-related content is just out their in children’s space, some even disguised as innocent family friendly run-of-the-mill stuff, when really it’s a surprise gore fest or softcore pornography. No other fandom does that, not Sonic, not Harry Potter, not any number of popular IPs that have a healthy number of child and adult fans. You won’t find Sonic brutally slaughtering his friends on YouTube Kids, and it definitely wouldn’t be hidden behind a colorful cutesy thumbnail.

I didn't want to get involved in this, but... as someone who was part of the Sonic fandom between 2006-2012, reading A LOT of Sonic-related fan comics and playing fan-made games, I had to say... your statement contradicts what I remember from those days.

One - yes, there was gory content back then, mostly Flash games, usually with Shadow as the psycho murdering others. Granted, I don't remember a single instance with Sonic turning 'cupcakes,' but Shadow... oh boy. Another character that usually went on a murderous spree was Metal Sonic.

Two - I don't know your criteria, so I can't say whether it's 'disguised as innocent family friendly run-of-the-mill stuff,' but when it comes to NSFW stuff, Sonic fandom could easily compete with MLPs. Even back then, there were TONS of porn comics (many including underage characters), as well as such innocent-sounding games like 'Babysitting Cream.' Not exactly child-friendly stuff

And three - the problem of hiding NSFW stuff from children online was always there and always included EVERY kid's show in existence. It sure as heck was true back then when it came to Sonic fandom, and frankly, it was much worse in the past. For example, I first stumbled on Sonic porn by pure accident when I was looking for some SFW comics on Google Images, and suddenly, I saw Sonic and Amy... doing stuff. Right now, it's much harder to stumble upon something NSFW accidentally, but back then, search engine filters were crappy.

So, unless something drastically changed over the years - which I doubt given what I've seen - everything I know about Sonic fandom tells me it's pretty similar to the MLP fandom when it comes to NSFW stuff.

And, it's not that people don't want to fix the problem of accessibility of porn to children; It's that no real solution available to artists or website administrators that is not based on self-censorship would be effective. Take regular porn as an example - all major search engines have been struggling to find a solution for YEARS. And even with all the AI and billions of dollars they have, you can still stumble upon porn during an ordinary Google search. That should tell people that it's not some trivial matter to fix.

Hello, while I don't feel I can add much to this, but I don't think you feel bad about stuff like this, for the most part. every fandom is going to have less savory sides, and less savory people who engage and love the same thing you enjoy. the funny thing about media, of any kind, is that it often attracts people of all kinds. I think its something that happens to every fandom, really. Especially if it gains any popularity. But as others have said, its kind of up to you how much you want to connect the art made to the artist that created it. H.P Lovecraft, Robert E Howard, and Ray Bradbury, are among some of my favorite authors. all of them either held views i don't agree with or found abhorrent. But i still collect their works and proudly display them on my bookshelf. I guess, what I'm trying to say, is its always something to be aware of, but you should not let hinder how you enjoy something.