If they're not gay married they'll be fornicating and then they'll go to double Hell.

7121800
It is impossible for them to get married in God's eyes. They can exchange all the vows they want and maybe they'll be married in the government's eyes, but not in God's.
Fornication is the sin when an unmarried man and woman engaged in sexual relations.
When two people of the same sex engage in sexual activity, it is a different sin that is far worse than fornication, it is called sodomy. It is one of the four sins that cry out to heaven.
Murder of the innocent, the sin of Sodom, defrauding a laborer his wages, and oppression of the poor.
These are the four sins that cry out to God for vengeance.

7121800

Marriage is nothing more than a contract between a couple and the government so I don't see anything wrong with it. The most it will do is cause them to file their taxes as a couple instead of two single individuals.

7121810
That's how we fallen humans have come to view it, but God tells us its something greater. It's a sacred covenant between husband and wife that is exclusive and permanent. Trying to change its definition is to defy God's will, and that never ends well.

7121800
As Destiny Chaser pointed out, a grave sin does not cease to be a sin just because the people engaging in it have a piece of paper saying they are "married" (and even then, same-sex marriage is an impossibility).

7121800
I say it's good for gay people to marry because gay people should be allowed to marry. It's been theorized that "man shall not lie with man" was a mistranslation of "man shall not lie with boy," AKA no pedophilia. And even if that was how it was originally, I believe that it would have been God's way of making sure that there would be enough children born to make up for all the people who wanted to kill the Israelites. And also, as it says in Galatians 5: 22-23; "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law." If two people love each other and just happen to be the same gender, their love should not be outlawed. That's just my take.

7121891

Permanent? Try telling that to someone who is being abused by their spouse. You really think they'd want it to be permanent? That makes it sound more like a prison than anything else.

7121982
In the eyes of some. In the eyes of others, it is nothing more than a contract with the government that is harder than hell to get out of.

7121807
The other three sins have an identifiable victim. Who's the victim if two people of the same gender choose to engage in sexual relations?

7122037
Whenever we sin, we do great harm to ourselves.
While murder destroys the body, these sins bring death to the very soul and defile nature itself.
God is the party who is always most offended by sin and these acts are most abomidable in His sight because it so defiles a man's nature who is made in God's own Image.

7122002
You can twist scripture all you want, but it will never mean as you wish it to.
Love does not mean merely feeling good about another, but to will the good of the other, and homosexual actions hardly do good to the other. Sorry, but an abuse of the digestive system with the reproductive system is not a part of healthy nature. If you don't believe me then why does 2% of the population make up more than 80% of HIV cases? When nature's laws are broken, it reacts violently.
It's pretty obvious how God designed the complementary nature of the opposite sexes.
Love does no harm to the other because it desires the good of the other.
If you truly love someone, you want what's best for them and that is God himself. These ungodly acts separate a person from him and lead to only sorrow and damnation. This is not love.

7122009
Tell that to Jesus who MADE it permanent. Divorce and remarriage is as bad as anything

7122037
The idea of a "victimless crime" does not exist in Divine law. God is offended by all sin.

7122063
Then God is unjust. For a crime to exist, a victim must exist. How would you define a crime otherwise? (This is why drug addiction and prostitution are not crimes by definition!)

7122061
Well, anal sex is quite unhealthy regardless of gender, but (unless I'm wrong) I don't think ye can get an illness from say mutual masturbation or frottage. (Go on, look it up....if you dare.)

7122068
All sin is an offense against God, no matter what excuse people make up to justify said sin. There is nothing unjust in this despite what modernist theologians like to say. God is justice itself. Applying false standards of justice to God is blasphemy

7122068
The individual themselves is the victim. They are destroying their own nature. Drug addiction and prostitution are crimes because they harm the individual. Society is made up of individuals. In harming oneself, you harm society and the greater good. Just look how destructive private heroin addictions are to families, communities, and our country as a whole! There is no such thing as a victimless crime. Someone is always hurt. We do not have a right to harm ourselves for we do not belong to ourselves, we belong to God
7122069
I'll take your word for it (don't even know what that latter one is). Any sexual activity of any kind between two members of the same sex is gravely sinful in the eyes of God.

7122073
Well, there has to be a reason it's wrong otherwise God's law would be arbitrary.

7122082
Why homosexual acts are sinful has already been explained.

7122081
The Greeks considered anal sex unmanly so they rubbed their penises against their partner's thighs. (And drug addiction is an illness not a crime-you might as well put someone in jail for having the flu.)

So, in your opinion what should a homosexual person do exactly? Deny themselves the deepest expression of love and intimacy that can be known? Deceive a member of the opposite sex into thinking they're attracted to them to go with social mores? That inevitably leads to betrayal and heartbreak . My father is a closeted homosexual and it would have been so much better had he simply been honest and not deceived my mother. Lying is also a sin.

(It occurs to me that I am bisexual. If my father is homosexual and I am bisexual I am living proof that homosexuality is genetic. In fact if homosexuals were not pressured into reproducing, they would likely have died out long ago leaving us bisexuals to conquer the world.)

(All is proceeding according to keikaku.)

(Keikaku means plan.)

7122083
Eh, fair.

7122085

drug addiction is an illness not a crime-you might as well put someone in jail for having the flu

Getting sick with the flu is not a choice, getting addicted to drugs is. Yes, addiction is an illness, but it was acquired because you chose to do it.

A person who has same-sex attractions must not act on them. You won't die without sex. Not all feelings are just. It's not a sin to have those feelings, for feelings are beyond our control. But it would be a sin to act on them. I have a blog on this on my page that goes into more details of what same-sex attracted persons must do if you're interested.

7122088
Jaysus, that sounds cruel. To deny oneself intimacy and love, a life of empty loneliness. The thought makes me shudder with horror. What sort of life would that be? Why would God create someone just to suffer?

7122088
Then again, I consider celibacy an abomination so maybe I'm biased. (Asexuality doesn't count. They can't help it.) Actually, going further, I consider it my duty to have children as I do have attractions to the opposite sex. I would actually consider homosexuality sinful if it were volitional, but it is not. My views are on the extreme pro-natal side. (Note-Of course not everyone is emotionally able to have children and I understand that.)

I....have no words. In short. I think this part of Christianity is stupid. Love is love. That's all I got to say, really

7122089
Flying from sin is not cruelty. Cruelty is telling someone that their sin is not a sin and allowing them to be damned for it.

7122094
So, gay people should be alone forever? Wonderful.

7122089
Don't confuse sex as the only way to have intimacy and love, it is more than possible to have these without sex. Ever read about the lives of consecrated religious who takes a vows of virginity for God? Ever meet one? Far from being miserable, they are the most joyful, loving, and passionate of people. They are filled with God's own love and they share that love with the world, elevating everyone around them. The spiritual intimacy and joy they have with God himself, who chooses them for His own to be models of His Love in the world, far outstrips anything that can be had in natural marriage. This is why consecrated life is superior to marriage because while marriage is natural, to be called by God to live only for Him is supernatural. It is above our nature to live in such a way.
This is actually where I must compliment you on your profound sense of man's natural purpose. There is nothing greater a man or woman can do naturally then to get married and bring new life into the world, life is the most precious gift.
But that gift is raise to a supernatural excellence when one lives not simply for nature, but for a reason that is above all that is natural, God himself.
Of course, this only makes sense if you believe in God in the first place.

7122095
Are you alone if you have friends and family? Are you alone when you have God?

You say that they should be alone and lack intimacy forever if they can't have sex, but you are under the mistaken assumption that intimacy is only achieved through sex, while it truly is a great thing that God has created between married couples, it's not the be-all-end-all of intimacy.

It is not something to be obsessed over just because a person cannot do it with whomever they choose. You find something else to focus on, something greater than anything a man can experience on this earth that is not just physical self-indulgence.

7122118
Sex shouldn't just be physical self-indulgence it should be a physical expression of love...otherwise it is a sin indeed.

But of course I agree that there's more to love and life than sex.

Actually, you seem to have missed my entire point. I'm not talking about sex at all, I'm talking about two men or two women falling in love. Have you ever heard of Lesbian bed death? Just as in heterosexual couples, not all gay couples have sex.

7122125
Lord help us if it was the only way to physically express love, the world would be an odd place indeed if that were the case.

...Falling in love and not having sex? Sure, considering having sex with another man/woman is a sin, I could see the merit in that.

7122095
No one said that but you.

7122128
Indeed it would be! We agree on this point.

7122062

So basically Jesus is saying that spousal abuse is ok and that the abused one is stuck in what is a terrible marriage? It is things like that which make marriage look so undesirable.

7122144
No one said that but you. You forgot the part where I said it was divorce and REMARRIAGE that was condemned.

7122150

So abuse within a marriage isn't condemned but escaping a marriage involving that is? That seems very messed up in my opinion. It is things like that where avoiding marriage entirely looks more appealing. If you're in an abusive relationship that isn't sanctioned by the government, you can just end the relationship.

7122157
You're reading something into my comments I never even implied.

7122158

I'm simply stating things that seem very obvious, well in my opinion.

7121800
To RoyalBardofCanterlot
Gays shouldn't be married in a Christian Church as it is against the teachings about marriage which God consider as sacred. God only accepts marriage between a man and a woman. Gays may love who they want, but the physical sex between same sexes is what God still view as a perversion. This is alongside other sexual perversions that God still condemns in the Moral Law.

7122091
To StormLuna
I would like to bring a case here then, if Love is Love. Would you consider it love, between two adults, if an adult seeks it from underage children? From animals?

There are good reasons why divorce is not right. This diminish the sancity and importance of marriage. Hence getting into marriage is an important decision. Vows are made before God.

While I understand about abusive relationships in a marriage, but that's why there should be intervention - primarily by other family members, and by the professionals. Get the aggressor to cease his/her abuses against the spouse, and help fix the marriage. The marriage should be fixed not encouraged to split in general.

But the problem is that marriage is merely treated as a mere contract in the modern age by most people. It's value and sanctity is meaningless, and seen as a social event.

To All:
No sin is unforgivable for Jesus has already paid for the penalties of sin. Our path as Christian is to follow Jesus along the narrow road He has shown. The weight of the cross that each of us bear as we live through our life symbolizes all the challenges we face.

The original name of the Christian faith was "The Way". (No NOT THAT meme) For Jesus is the Way to the Father in Heaven.

Feeling good doesn't necessarily mean it is right. Doing narcotic drugs feels good but it is not right. Indulging in prostitutes feels good but it is not right.

Jesus came to divide the world, between those who accepts and follows Him and those who rejects Him.

We are to be IN the world but NOT WITH the world. We are to live in the Way of the Exiles as we follow Jesus. We WILL fail the Commandments and the Laws along the way. But through the admission and repentance of our sins and acceptance of Jesus, we are forgiven. Repentance and Acceptance. Not only Acceptance.

Remember that this mortal life is finite, our souls are eternal. So we make it right with Jesus, so that we can enjoy the gift of resurrection and eternal life.

7122297
Why does the Torah allow divorce?

Secondly, I think it comes down to one's view of human nature. If you believe things like sexual orientation, personality, skill are merely acquired habit, naturally you think these things can be changed. I tend to think these things are innate, inborn the "gifts of our ancestors" which they handed down to us by surviving in a severe environment. Even racial traits are innate (no Asian country will have a particularly high crime rate-they're not that violent. Africans are more passionate, but this is not a bad thing! Europeans are slightly better at social organization, but this is not always a good thing. It would have been better if the British Empire or Nazi Germany had been less skilled in that art. People of all races are born good as goodness helped us survive be it upon the Savannah of Africa or the frozen wilderness of Ice Age Europe.) These things can not be changed. You are what you are. You simply have to live with it-not just live with it embrace it!

(Also, racial differences are not confined to race. Personality and talents are also linked to family bloodline.)

Also neither children nor animals can consent to a sexual relationship with an adult human.

7122303
well said

7121800
There are gay Christians, like me, out there who do still want to serve God. Some might want to marry, some might not. But marriage is really when two people vow to stay one for the rest of their lives together.

StormLuna makes a very valid point as well;

a contract between a couple and the government

That's the legal side of marriage. It really depends on your perspective, though. Part of marriage is that two become one, as previously mentioned.

7122303
History has proven that humans are violent creatures, beyond any culture or race, humans have proven this.

There are many reasons that Asian countries have lower crime rates, societal constructs, namely the honor or good name of your family, fear of repercussions from the government, fear OF the government reacting with MORE violence. Let us also not forget the grotesque things they do during wartime...

Europeans, Africans, Mexicans and Egyptians, all races are just as violent, there is no racial difference, only cultural and societal.

7122303

True it is allowed in the Torah but this does not change that God Himself made a statement that He hates it. (Malachi 2:16)
Jesus also made a statement that divorce is allowed only because hardness of the heart of sinful humans who enter in marriage. (Matthew 19:8)

https://www.gotquestions.org/I-hate-divorce.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/grounds-for-divorce.html

One has to remember that Marriage is also a reflection of God's own vows to humanity as a whole through the Covenant. Jesus also made a vow to bring all those who believed in Him and followed Him to be freed from the death of sin and be given the gift of eternal life.

7122547
Way offtopic, but how do you know culture isn't a result of racial traits? There are genetic differences. https://www.tremr.com/Duck-Rabbit/racial-differences-in-testosterone-black-men-have-highest

7122673
I agree that physiology wise, all the races are different, but as a whole? I don't think I can agree that it makes a huge difference, culture and social climate has the most impact I think. I'm no expert in psychology though.

7123175
Well, yes, there are multiple factors. Climate influences culture and biology. Bit of a chicken and the egg situation to be honest. Assyrians and Egyptians, for example, were racially the same, but Egyptians were more peaceful as they lived in an area with more resources.