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Impossible Numbers


"Gather ye rosebuds while ye may, Old Time is still a-flying, And this same flower that smiles today, Tomorrow will be dying."

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Jul
21st
2020

"Frenemies", or: Three Villains in a Boat · 8:08pm Jul 21st, 2020

Blog Number 84: Better Way To Be Bad Edition

Gladly coming back to nicer subjects now... Recently took a glance at Season Nine (my enthusiasm for it hasn't been high). I've taken some recommendations and picked a few eps of interest. One of them was, of course, "Frenemies".

I like this one. A lot.


Speaking more broadly for a moment, my enthusiasm for catching up on Season Nine has never been high and still isn't high enough to watch more than a smattering of episodes. Even then, some I'm only watching clips of, same as back when I was looking ahead to Seasons Six, Seven, and Eight. I'm also guided by episode reviews and from what I've heard through the electronic grapevine (I already know the Grogar twist, for instance, which I feel was a waste of a good villain). So it's only fair to state in advance that, though I'm trying to approach this positively, that's in spite of my overall reservations and reluctance for this season.

Now on to "Frenemies", one of a handful I was actually looking forward to (the other is "Sparkle's Seven", but I haven't got around to that one yet).


POV

What's fascinating from the get-go is that this is a unique set-up for the show: a tale specifically from the POV of the villainous side. In fact, I'd like to ramble about that for a moment, because it touches upon something I try to do with my writing projects, and with what fanfic writers often try to do generally: alternative POVs.

My Little Pony in another reality.

Of course, having an ensemble cast, switching POVs is right up the show's alley already, but I kind of wish the show switched up POVs more often. How about a "day in the life of Diamond Tiara" episode, or a Pie family episode where we just follow Igneous, Cloudy, Limestone, Marble, and maybe Maud and Pinkie in a single week?

Because, with its vast cast and well-established community, there's plenty of scope for such exploration.

Now, the show has featured one-off or recurring characters who are a major focus every so often - Daring Do, the Flim Flam brothers, and the Wonderbolts are obvious examples - but these are usually mediated by the presence of the Main Six, who are usually the ones most tightly tied into the POV and the moral. They're rarely about the starring character in and of themselves.

This is understandable, but especially later in the show when the main cast started completing certain arcs and expanding into new territories, it might have been a better opportunity to flesh out what else was already there.


To show my cards on the table, I do say this as someone who takes a personal interest in side characters when I'm writing. I'm blatantly projecting my own interests onto the show here.

"Rainbow, don't you think fanfic writers have diff'rent priorities to the show staff?" "Hey, it's just common sense: 'My Little Rainbow: Dashing is Magic' could've run to twenty seasons."

Self-deprecating caption notwithstanding, I'll still (tentatively) say it could have been at least a more interesting move, with such a large established cast. You could argue it in favour of the newer cast additions who didn't get as much chance to shine as they probably ought to have had (cough-The-Pillars-cough), though I think part of the advantage with an established cast is that they don't clutter up the show too much and don't need seasons-long arcs to be interesting. If they weren't basically swindled out of even that.

"You'll hear from our lawyers once we've dug up their bones."

There's also the fact that emphasizing casual cast members would have been a strong way of showing the theme of friendship across a broad sweep of society, instead of implying that only the main characters' friendships matter (OK, I'll admit that's a really personal bug of mine too, and not one the show is obliged to follow. I view it more as a missed opportunity).


See, what's actually rare in the show is episodes where the world feels independent of the Main Six (for the purposes of simplification, assume the "Main Six" includes Spike too).

When someone like Coloratura or Sky Stinger and Vapor Trail comes along, they accompany a major cast member like Applejack and Rainbow Dash, but could just as easily vanish right after, giving the sense that there isn't so much a community as a wheel that revolves around the main characters every waking second.

For instance, Coloratura's life story, attitude, and career problems aren't the point the same way, say, Rarity's were in "Sweet and Elite"; they're context for Applejack to do the work and lead to a one-off "be yourself" moral. Any actual dive into her as a protagonist in her own right is entirely left up to the fans.

For this visual analogy to work, assume Applejack is lasers.

Even someone like Cheerilee, who was interwoven with some episodes early on, never really got any development despite being a long-runner. They're either background or catalyst, never the chemical reaction itself.

In short, though they factor in greatly, they don't have their own independent drive and agency. The Main Six will usually be the ones supplying both, with the side effect that they go from just some among many to seemingly the only ones who matter. After a while, it feels disproportionate.

And I think it takes away a bit from some of the show's strengths, because it's potentially sitting on a goldmine for resonance. I'm not even saying "exclude the Main Six every time": as already mentioned, you could have a Pie-centric episode with Pinkie as a co-star. I'm saying capitalize on the ensemble aspect, because one of the show's strengths is celebrating diversity and showing how friendship works in social circles.

It could even have mitigated some of the problems with obsessing over a core cast. Imagine trading in one of Fluttershy's "face your fears" episodes in favour of her cameoing in someone else's quest to overcome their own fear. Or imagine Princess Twilight coming in at the end of an episode in which someone else in town envies, admires, or distrusts her new status. (I personally felt it would've given a fresh new look at the whole ascension issue that no amount of Twilight-exclusive stories could have fully tackled).

"I was a princess before it was cool!"


To be fair, there are main exceptions: Big Mac (debatable, given the CMC influence), Starlight, Discord, and the Student Six. Notably, these are either mostly late-show cast additions rather than early established ones (Discord's a bit of an odd case, in that respect, because his redemption arc over multiple seasons spreads him-as-a-reformed-protagonist out a bit), or characters whose development in the main cast was nearly always interwoven with someone else (Big Mac as a focal character almost always shows up with one of his sisters supplying the main POV).

I think it's particularly relevant because, at the other end of the scale, we have characters who not only are featured prominently but are almost omnipresent.

Compare it with the heavy Twilight emphasis early on. Not one episode in Season One lacks her presence, as compared with Pinkie (absent as early as the sixth episode), Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy (eighth episode), Rarity (twelfth), and Applejack (seventeenth), and unlike them, she'll usually tie into the plot in some way.

Until a certain Sweetie Belle episode. Sweetie Belle and Rarity ended up getting the first taste of Twilight-free coverage in the show.

Hasbro hastily regretted letting Sweetie Belle design the new logo.

The first time Twilight was utterly start-to-finish absent was "Sisterhooves Social", the fifth episode of the second season. Possibly not coincidentally, it's also a great Sweetie Belle and Rarity outing, able to focus on their relationship and to more naturally define the rest of the story elements around that (e.g. Applejack and Apple Bloom's relationship, and the very nature of the Sister-hooves Social). I personally found this a promising precedent, because by now the rest of the world had been fleshed out, and it proved the show could finally stand on other shoulders and still work incredibly well (in fact, "Sisterhooves Social" is one of my favourite episodes).

Or even better: one of the more awkward issues with Twilight being constantly present was that some episodes had to shoehorn a reason to include her ("Stare Master", for instance, could have used literally anyone else in her role, barring the "Dear Princess Celestia" format at the end).

To be fair, this is understandable. A good comparison here is with The Simpsons.

"Mmmm... fusion fic crossover..."

Although The Simpsons revolves around five members of a particular family, and (to the best of my knowledge) they never disappear entirely from any one episode, the show also had a large, established community. It could comfortably switch focus to each one in order to draw out more and more diverse storylines.

The most extreme examples are "22 Short Films About Springfield" and "The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase", which actively toyed with the idea of jumping across to other characters entirely (sadly, the former was a potential spin-off showcase that never got off the ground).

But of course, the clue is in the name: the stories still feature the viewpoint of the Simpsons as characters doing what they do, as perspectives on social trends, as subjects of family drama, or as focal points for political/media commentary.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic isn't pitched so broadly (it's not a show for satirizing everything and anything, for a start), so it's perfectly understandable why it didn't go this route. Yet I don't think there was any particular reason it couldn't have pushed more in that direction.

For one thing, the toyetic nature could have worked to its advantage if the newly introduced elements had been worked in more thoroughly. The Crystal Empire, for instance, ended up mostly being a vehicle for other characters rather than a fully fleshed-out entity in its own right.


All this, however, still all focuses on good or at least redeemed characters. They've got little on "Frenemies", though.

"Er... my agent said I'm doing what now?"

This episode pushes it a lot further, and I honestly wish it could've happened more often. Firstly, because exploring the POVs of others can, not necessarily excuse, but at least provide insight into the evil others do. Batman: The Animated Series is a great example of a series where recurring villains could be allowed a chance to shine, and no one need to delve so deeply into the dark in order to make the principle work elsewhere.

For instance, imagine something like that for "The Cutie Map", with another episode showing the whole thing from evil Starlight's point of view (maybe as part-backstory, maybe as a look into how the other villagers got swept up in it). What a wonderfully nuanced episode that could have been, showing how carelessly good intentions could develop into evil if one doesn't resist certain temptations.

Secondly, because it can be entertaining. Heck, since we're going for the evil angle, we could've had an episode about Discord literally revisiting his early evil persona, not just to better show how far he's come, but to get a glimpse into what it would have been like to live a life spent tormenting others for fun without having any good influences like friendship, or without realizing what one was doing. The dramatic irony alone would've been amazing. But more obviously, we'd have had an excuse to enjoy evil Discord again.

"Frenemies" shows off both benefits to tremendous effect.


Characters

Choice of characters is where this POV really gets interesting.

First of all, though, I'm going to say up-front that I don't like Cozy Glow, or her inclusion in the villain line-up. Sombra's absence is kind of a shame too, though at least his doing a Pete Best in the premiere made him somewhat interesting in that respect.

He said, "I know what it's like to be dead.
I know what it is to be bad."

And I think the "villain team-up" concept would have been more exciting if a lot of classic villains hadn't been reformed by now (imagine a team-up with old-school Discord, or Nightmare Moon being given an opportunity for a comeback). So being left with Tirek and Chrysalis sans army is a bit of a limitation.

Still, Lord Tirek and Queen Chrysalis were among the best villains for a reason, and it doesn't take long for their charismatic evil and me-first attitude to be fun to watch. Even Cozy Glow works in the context of this episode as the mediator no one likes. If she didn't have the baggage of Season Eight killing the attempt to sell her as a credible and worthy villain, I'd at least be happier with her presence.

But let's focus on the characters we have rather than the characters we might have had.


What I particularly like is the way the villains are treated as spectacular evil being forced into a mundane routine: Tirek's lust for power translates into a workout regimen, which is weirdly funny when contrasted with his more supernatural attempts to gain power. Heck, even the latter works its way into the comedy, with his prior attempt to drain Chrysalis treated as some annoying compulsive habit.

Chrysalis' haughty insistence on the royal treatment at least makes good use of her reduced circumstances: she might be a social pariah, but she's Queen Social Pariah, damn it! She might complain at her pet log, but she complains regally!

And of course, that translates into petty jerk behaviour. Personal favourite is the "trust" exercise during the song. Chrysalis outright kicking Tirek down the stairs is just bold-faced hilarity!

Pictured: two cows.


But the advantage of character focus is that it's a chance to show off their versatility too. The challenge puts the character's skills to good effect.

Although I'm personally not a fan of the changelings being retconned into omnipotent shapeshifters rather than specifically pony-centric ones, Chrysalis' exploitation of the skill reminds me of the spirit shapeshifters in a little-known fantasy series I quite like, The Bartimaeus Trilogy, and how the spirits would change their bodies to work around various obstacles.

(The limitation there was power level: a spirit's essence is only so malleable before it tires them out, and in any case they're not creatures adapted to a physical realm when they more usually inhabit a chaotic otherworld: they only appear in reality in the first place because of summoning rituals conducted by knowledgeable humans.)

I'm not as sure what it is that limits changeling shape-shifting skills now: I'd like to say they can only turn into living things, but Thorax turned into a rock in his debut. I'd like to say it's a matter of whether the thing they turn into is something they have to copy from reality beforehand, but Pharynx and Ocellus have turned into bug-monsters, and it's not confirmed whether those things exist already. So I guess it's just a matter of changeling imagination and possibly power level?

In any case, Chrysalis shows some practical flexibility when advancing up Mount Everhoof, which was a nice reminder that she's an agent and not shy about working in the field herself.

"The name's Bond. Tasty Delicious Bond."


Cozy, of course, tries cutesy manipulation, and gets increasingly enraged when it fails on Rusty Bucket (whose casual attitude to the whole thing pretty much makes the comedy). It doesn't make her villain stock any more impressive, and I really wish the show hadn't played her as a straight-up child. That can work in a loopy comedy, like Cats Don't Dance, but MLP tends to be at least grounded when it comes to child characters.

If only she'd been something like Mary Dahl "Baby-Doll" in Batman: The Animated Series - an adult trapped in a child's body - or a more credible malevolent being, like a demon in the form of a child, or even a tragic figure, like a normal child warped by Tirek's dark influence, a mind-possessed Exorcist kind of deal.

"I also scam widows, eat puppies, and sell the stolen kidneys of orphans to fund my six-chocs-a-day habit."

(Fair's fair, that might be argued as too dark for the show, but given the "mind rape as comedy" angle of some episodes, I'd honestly be more receptive towards its inclusion; it'd at least be a comprehensible explanation).

In any of those cases, I'd be less put-off by her inclusion alongside the likes of demon-like entities such as Chrysalis and Tirek. In any case, the fact that she provides someone for the other two to play off mitigates her presence, to a point. She does at least allow the comedy an outlet, usually when Tirek argues with her.


Tirek's approach of letting the others do the grunt work was a nice surprise. I don't find his persuasion of Discord convincing in "Twilight's Kingdom" ("freedom" works well as a reason for Discord to go off the rails, less so as a reason to treat Tirek as a loyal ally), and his role in the already plothole-ridden "School Raze" didn't work for various reasons (most obviously, the fact that he knows a ritual for secretly draining all magic in one go doesn't sit well with the actual, and far slower and riskier, approach he took in his debut), but here his Machiavellian angle works well.

"Laziness: the lesser-known synonym for intelligence."

Especially when he's usually more brute-like in his hunger for strength, it's good to see him exercise some smarts and manipulative tendencies again.

I also like the implication that he knew what Chrysalis was up to already with the ophiotaurus, hence his lack of concern before her disguise is revealed. Potentially shows some quick deductive skills, or at least an ability to sense the difference between the two ophiotauruses (I'll go for this obvious plural before I feel confident using ophiotauri or something similar).


And apart from being a comedy and villain competency showcase, there's even a little - for want of a better word - humanizing going on.

Come on, you mocked Twilight too! Every human being does it!

The three have a chat over a fire (over how much they hate Twilight, of course), and even share a joke with Chrysalis' brilliantly satirical improv night. :trollestia: (Chrysalis' voicing skills aside, I'd bet Celestia would pay to see that routine; it's more on-point than Discord's!).

The cooperative endgame is a treat too, fully exploiting the villainous nature of the protagonists by having them come perilously close to - and (from their POV) reasonably subverting - the traditional friendship epiphany. At least in-show, it really does seem to be catching like a disease, and at least I'll take the thrown bone of an in-universe villain rejecting it.

What's particularly surprising is how plausible it is in context. Chrysalis, being a former hive member, at least appreciates the pragmatic value of cooperation among her own kind, but demonstrating it with the other two in a successful high-trust exercise is going to feel more unusual. Her ultimate rejection of friendship as the corruptive influence makes total sense for her too.

I find Tirek's the most interesting reaction, though. One could argue that, with Grogar's pro-cooperation attitude, there was an invisible knife over Tirek's head anyway, but Grogar's been surprisingly tolerant of their pettinesses up to this point, (relatively speaking: throwing your underlings around is a pretty good sign you have a limit). In any case, it's equally possible the terrible trio had betrayal at the back of their minds already. It's likely Tirek personally might have viewed the other two as more pawns.

It's generally considered an unwise chess strategy to stick a pawn in your mouth.

That said, unlike Chrysalis and (debatably) Cozy, he hasn't explicitly had friendship offered to him by the heroes (unless Scorpan counts), and his interactions with Discord were more obviously manipulative and self-serving, but the ever-present difficulty with maintaining a mask is that, if it goes on too long, it can become a real face (this is actually a major risk in real life spy work, because humans are such a social species they can take cues not just from their environment and from others, but from their own behaviour: strange, but a pretty intriguing finding in psychology).

In any case, his concessions here are a good tease to suggest he, along with the others, felt the tug whilst they were trusting each other. Keep in mind, he's also been cooped up with these two for a while. Annoyances or not, Tirek might just have adapted to having the other two around, and his enjoyment of their company in the campfire scene suggests this isn't just pragmatic convenience. In real life, situationally forced cooperation can pave the way for a more sympathetic appreciation of others (can, mind), and of course the nice thing about villain team-ups is that the evil masterminds have someone around who's in the same boat they are.

Alternative heartwarming.

Finishing with a twisted take on their cooperation was a good compromise: they've grown to acknowledge the benefits of teamwork, but it's ultimately in service to their evil. They're playing the long game and leaving it open whether or not these three can, if not actually be friends, then at least show off a more nuanced, mutually appreciative side than just "AWESOME EVIL".

And while I bemoan the reduced cast of villains, it does at least allow the episode enough pacing to give each one plenty of moments to shine, instead of feeling crammed together awkwardly.


Overall, I'm delighted and impressed with how this episode handled the balancing act, and in isolation I consider it a very satisfying and entertaining showcase for the franchise's POV potential.


Miscellaneous Thoughts

  • Grogar's "tired parent" attitude to their bickering is a great way to set the comedic stage for the rest of the episode. Grogar tries to maintain his shrewdness and dignity, but it's nice to see him used as the straight man to the other three's antics.
  • Also, cool how different parts of him glow when he uses his magic. If it wasn't for the real twist in the finale, I'd love to know more about how that works. Maybe he's so surrounded by magical artefacts that he can switch back and forth at will. Sounds like Grogar went to great pains for his powers back in the day.
  • Not forgetting his superior power level reminds us that, for all the fun poking at his patience, this guy's one nasty dude if you get on his wrong side. I really wish there'd been a better reveal for him, because he's a great villain design with a fascinating set-up.
  • Tirek admiring his buffed-up picture is kind of pathetic, in a way. I won't say the established motivation makes him sympathetic - given he's basically pony Lucifer with his god complex - but it's a moment that makes his frustrated powerlessness easy to understand.
  • Apparently, the log Chrysalis talks to is the one used to create Mean Twilight back in "The Mean Six". I'm not going back to check - contrary to some, I actively dislike that episode's trivialization of Chrysalis - but that raises some odd implications, not least of which is that Chrysalis is potentially complaining to a corpse. Crazy town has a new queen...
  • Cozy's prominence notwithstanding, I love the song "Better Way to Be Bad", especially once Chrysalis gets a chance to show off her singing chops (in fact, Kathleen Barr's performance as her and as Trixie overall counts as one of my favourite examples of vocal skill in the show; Chrysalis just oozes haughty evil even when she's merely being catty in a duet). I think that's a tango-like influence of music, isn't it? And it's got that dark villain delight of revelling about how much better at EVIL they'd be whilst singing a peppy little song about friendship. God bless this episode.
  • I don't have any strong feelings about Grogar's story of the bell. It's just there as dull explanation. At this point, an ancient tyrant being defeated by a hero feels a bit old-hat. Discord, Sombra, Tirek, and Nightmare Moon already bought the shirts. Besides, Equestria's history already feels like a chronology-devoid dumpbucket for backstory. I'd be kind of more impressed if Grogar was more like Chrysalis: a new threat absolutely no one knew about until it was too late. It'd fit his patient evil approach.
  • Mount Everhoof wasn't brand new for this episode: it was on the old official Equestria map, many years ago, and the map placed it north of the Crystal Empire (and east of Yakyakistan in later editions). But there, it was right at the northern pole, past the vast Frozen North, which is essentially this world's Arctic Sea. It didn't seem to have forests near it.
  • Chrysalis' forms call back to various previously seen species: the cragadile (is that what it's still called, by the way? I thought there was a copyright issue or something) from "Princess Twilight Sparkle", the goats in both of Iron Will's episodes, the roc from "Molt Down". I don't think the monkey corresponds to anything in particular, though I haven't checked yet (I'd guess one might have shown up in a Fluttershy episode?). Either way, nice to see some obscure monster callbacks. And yes, monkeys are monsters.
  • Not sure how I feel about the Friendship Journal - quite apart from the fact that I preferred the more idiosyncratic "Dear Celestia" approach of the earlier seasons than the more blatant "slap friendship on anything" approach of the later ones, I don't need reminders of "Fame and Misfortune". But it actually made for a funny callback gag when Cozy's manipulation is utterly defused by it. I think it helps that Rusty Bucket seems like exactly the kind of isolated kook who'd need this book.
  • Rusty Bucket has no problem watching a little foal get hit by an avalanche. As if this episode's crueller choice of protagonists wasn't funny enough, even the one-off character has an oddly apathetic black comedy charm to him.
  • Tirek's sleep-talking to gramgram. What's the story behind that? Is it a sly comics reference, or a more straightforward "even Tirek loves his granny!?" joke. I'm giggling at it either way.
  • An ophiotaurus is a bit of an odd choice for a snowy region, given its origins in Greek mythology. That said, here's a potentially clever parallel (or at least a neat coincidence): in the original myth, the creature was said to grant godlike power to any who knew how to find it, in this case by burning its entrails. Now what does Grogar's bell grant if one knows how to unlock it?
  • I love the fact that Chrysalis cocoons her lunches for later. It's a very hive-creature thing to do (reminded me of honeypot ants: some members of their hives bloat their abdomens to monstrous sizes just to store honey as a living larder for lean times). As if that wasn't weirdly amusing enough, the episode as presented leaves the dark possibility that she might well have just left the poor beast in that state. We never see the thing again.
  • Tirek's power being limited to living things... I can't say it's wrong, as it doesn't contradict anything I remember from his prior appearances, but it does seem a bit unnecessary when it's already established Tirek has to work his way up the power levels to handle something stronger. It also seems a bit convenient for the moment at hand. Nowhere near as egregious as that mane tripe from "It Isn't The Mane Thing About You", and it sounds plausible enough. In which case, I wonder where the difference lies between living and non-living magic that imposes that limit on him? Does magic itself have its own distinction between being alive and being inanimate, the same way there's living tissue and dead matter? Ultimately, I'll give it a pass: it seems plausible enough for a magic parasite.
  • I kind of wish we actually got to see inside the cave holding Grogar's bell. The background artists could have gone to town with its design. Make it a magnificent temple, maybe, or a place so corrupted by the presence of the bell that it's twisted into something hellish and forsaken. Think of the possibilities!
  • Audience tip-off or not, I don't buy Grogar missing the bell. Something that powerful shouldn't be hard to detect, especially when he has scrying powers and a vested interest in the success of the mission. It's the sort of bizarre villain short-sightedness that made Sombra look like an idiot in the premiere. I'd find it more convincing if Grogar clearly knew the bell was there, but being the mastermind manipulator that he is (or the fact that, you know, they basically delivered it for him in the first place), he lets them think they've outsmarted him in favour of taking the long view. It'd be his style.

Well, that's it for now. If I get around to seeing more Season Nine episodes, I might post an entry about them similar to "The Oddity of Season Six" and "The Oddity of Season Eight". Having said that, I might also do a retrospective on Season Seven at some point. I think, to make it interesting, I'll call it... "The Oddity of Season Seven."

Until next time! Impossible Numbers, out.

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Comments ( 11 )

They definitely could've done a better job of mixing up the characters and their chemistry. Even certain main characters with great dynamics were dropped for one usually inexplicable reason or another.

5317994

Yeah, one I quite liked was how Fluttershy gained the respect of the Cutie Mark Crusaders back in "Stare Master". Then, apart from telling her cutie mark story later on, she barely interacts with them. A shame, especially since there could have been some way to, say, have Sweetie Belle's singing factor into Fluttershy's, or have Scootaloo take an interest in Fluttershy via Rainbow Dash. Stuff like that.

One of the weirder misses for me was Diamond Tiara's reformation. Going from constant archnemesis bully to new friend practically begs for a follow-up, if only to see her learn how better to drop old habits and adopt new ones, but she never got anything of the sort.

5318001
Yeah seeing how Diamond adjusts to handling her mother would've been intresting. And after Fillie Vanillie I wanted to see more of Rarity playing pseudo big sister to Fluttershy.

Edit: Actually I would've enjoyed more of the Pony Tones too.

PresentPerfect
Author Interviewer

I agree that the change of format is part of what makes this episode really great. In a season that had a few good ones, it's my third or fourth top pick.

I still hate the song, though. :C

The Bartimaeus Trilogy! I see you are a pony of culture as well.

Damn homie, this analytical essay longer than most my stories!

I can't instantly recall exactly what was said about the bell in this episode (which backs up its being a dull explanation), but I do remember being irritated at the time that it wasn't in accordance with G1 continuity. One thing I do recall is that the pony said by Grogar here to have defeated him (Gusty, I think) isn't the one who actually did for him in G1. I'd have to rewatch both G1 and G4 episodes again to remember more than that, though.

5318069

Curious to know what the other contenders were, though I think I can guess a couple based on that list of recommendations you gave me way back ("Student Counsel" is obviously one of them, since you described it as your "favorite of the season").

Also, I read your review of "Frenemies" in your presentpperfect.wordpress.com Season Nine recap. (I do apologize if your stance has changed since: please feel free to correct me). It seems like a weirdly backhanded complaint: music-wise, good, but content was way too silly. Though I can't deny it either: I took the silliness as cheerfully comedic.

5318200

Wow, I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who even knew the series existed. All I usually get for my troubles is blank looks.

It's a shame too, because they're such good British teen political conspiracy thrillers with alternate history fantasy elements (how often do you get to say that?). The mechanics of how spirit summoning and magic generally works is well-thought-out, and I love the fact that the series takes the sympathetic POVs of three characters from three very different factions without demonizing any particular one (well, the magicians' side gets hit hardest there).

Amusing anecdote: it was thanks to that series that I ever learned who William Gladstone was.

5318466

A side effect of enthusiasm, which itself is probably a backlash against my very steep reservations going in to Season Nine at all.

And a side effect of personal interests: most of the first half is purely about POV switching in the series generally.

5319244

Grogar ruled before Gusty stole his bell and put it in Mount Everhoof. That's basically the story.

To be fair, (and according to this G1 wikia) the one who actually rung the bell that stopped him in "The Return to Tambelon" was Megan Williams, a.k.a. exactly the human who couldn't do it in this continuity. Don't know if there was any particular pony aiding her in the act, though (closest I can find is a mention of Paradise here, finally remembering what the bell's significance was in Part Four).

Personally, I don't mind if G4 switches details around. After all, Tirac/Tirek, the Smooze, Somnambula, and the Dragon Gang played out very differently in their G4 incarnations, and that's just the villains (or in Somnambula's case, former villain).

PresentPerfect
Author Interviewer

5319473
The full list is at the bottom of that post! And actually, Frenemies came in at #5. Still solidly in the "episodes I liked" portion of the season, though.

The reason I hate the song is I remember a single scene from a single episode of an old 80's/90's cartoon. I think it was C.O.P.S. One of the villains is napping in the villain lounge and someone wakes him up. He expresses his displeasure by complaining that he was "having a nightmare", in a tone that makes it sound like he was really enjoying it.

It's a purely ridiculous conceit to suggest that villains, being marked as evil, enjoy things that other people would find unpleasurable. It does track somewhat -- a sadist enjoys torturing living beings, which others find distasteful -- but when it comes to things like enjoy nightmares (how can you classify a dream as a nightmare if it's enjoyable?), or how the witches of the G1 MLP movie wanted everything to be dark and gloomy, it just doesn't make sense. And that was fine for the 80's, when characterization was not a hallmark of television shows; seeing it used nowadays is just regressive, not to mention stupid. And that's what that song is to me.

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Oh, that's what the list at the end was! I was wondering why there was a random list of episode names. God, I can't connect dots worth a damn. :rainbowderp:

I will say I still find the song enjoyable, both at face value (it's a nice sound) and just for the black comedy of having a cheerful-sounding number about being eeeviiil.

But... that is a really good point. I like Chrysalis and Tirek just for being fun to watch (Cozy can be put out with the rest of the trash), but they are not psychologically convincing in their villainy*, and that song puts it front and centre. They're evil because they're evil because they're evil, regardless of the nuances this episode touches upon elsewhere.

* I mean, it's one of the reasons I am strongly not a fan of Starlight's redemption back in Season Five - she was the first villain with an actual point to her villainy, at least in her debut. Then they up and squander her as a boringly straightforward revenge villain. Then they goddamn redeem even that, because anything less than black-as-night evil apparently MUST be redeemed. God damn Season Five's finale.

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand: I think it helps the song's entertainment value a lot that Chrysalis and Tirek are completely unimpressed-bordering-on-hostile for most of it. Sometimes it's refreshing to have someone in-show kick back at its sappier tendencies, and this episode is all about that.

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And yeah, "Bad is Good and Good is Bad" is a form of villain characterization that definitely skews far too immature and nonsensical, for this show and others. We had a well-intentioned equalist cult way back, and at least being evil because other people's pain amuses you (cough-old-Discord-cough) made its own twisted sense, even if it falls foul of the whole "evil because evil because evil" thing.

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