Changing my stance · 3:38pm Jul 20th, 2020
Okay, a few days ago, I said I didn't care about a certain debacle. I've since changed my mind after a frankly riveting blog post by GrandMoff that I think you should all read.
The reason people like pedophiles and nazi supporters have been allowed to fester? We've said it's okay for them to fester, instead of tearing them out at the root. We've sat on our lawn chairs and kicked our feet up with a glass of lemonade.
That is not okay, it should never be okay. But wait, you say, it's a slippery slope to becoming the same monsters we want to fight or maybe worse!
Please, let's give ourselves some credit. Yes, it's possible for that to happen, not gonna lie. But let's face it, we as a race have done some great things. We've built the Pyramid, the Great Wall, outlawed slavery, and went to the moon for fuck's sake. I think we can do this.
Now, I'm going to paraphrase GrandMoff here for a minute. There are reasons to write about Nazis, like say Schindler's List. Twilight Zone did a masterful episode or two that exposed the evils of Nazism. Hell, there was a Justice League episode that had our heroes fighting in WW2 across Europe. Portraying Nazis as the bad guys? That's just fine. But what's not fine is a little pony with a Nazi Swastika on her rump cute or not. That stands for one thing and one thing ONLY. Aryanne has to go.
Also, on another thing. Minors are minors. Now, adult material is fine, I've done a bit of it myself, but minors are minors no matter where you go. We need to get rid of that shit as well, say 'no this is not okay', and put our feet down. I won't lie, this will cause some debates, but let me leave you with this. Think about how we got here. Change isn't easy, and you will sometimes have to fight for it, but it is necessary.
Hear hear
Glad to know not everyone is forgetting that
“All evil needs to prevail is for good men to do nothing”
Go away and rot nazi scum
t(._.t)
First they came for the national socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a national socialist.
Then they came for the Nationalists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Nationalists.
Then they came for the Christians, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Christian.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
and yes this isn't the original quote but I changed it to match the mood
just because they aren't coming for you doesn't mean they won't
give the Cancel Culture an Inch and they will take a Mile
My question is this, what happens when the term Nazi gets over used? Unfortunately I see one group using it and they can just as well be called it themselves.
I do agree that Aryanne needs to go. Unless she is a villain that gets completely wrecked like Team Rocket I don’t want to see that OC anymore.
5316583
This is correct. Giving the mob anything is appeasement at best.
5316765
Dude, I'm taking a stand against injustice.
If that's an evil, let me be a villain. Go and stick your head in the sand.
5316583
....either you're a troll or you fail to miss the point of this blog post entirely. I think some of the fandom's preaching of love and tolerance is what got us this far. We tolerated pedophiles and nazi supporters. That can not stand. To quote She-Ra's theme, we must be strong.
5316771
Maybe this is the case, but silencing people only give the impression that you fear what they have to say. Far better would be to publicly prove them wrong and ridicule their ideas.
Well said.
There is a world of difference between tolerating others because it's being a good person, and then bending over to let bigotry and other twistedness in. And, sadly, somewhere along the way, we forgot that distinction here.
A stand has to be made at some point.
5316784
Oh, I didn't silence Mugen. He deleted his own comment, I know that you have no right to believe me but I'm just as stunned as you.
I should also point out, or rather a friend of mine pointed out that Germany? Been doing this for decades, and they're still quite free as a country.
5316785
Simply put we got lazy, or we just stopped caring. Not sure which is worse.
Nazis are bad. National Socialism is bad. Hitler was bad. Aryanne has little redeeming qualities. But let's keep things in perspective. Derpibooru's "oc:aryanne" tag has ~3000 images. Given Derpi has ~2.15 million images total, that's 0.0014%. This has set the fandom ablaze.
I set my filters as strong as they would go and then searched "foalcon," just to get the number of images for the tag. (For those not aware, "foalcon" is to pedophilia what clop is to porn.) The number of foalcon images? Just over 17,000. Almost 6x more than Aryanne. The fandom's reaction? Silence. God, I hope it won't take some heinous real-world act going mainstream to get bronies to call out foalcon like they have Aryanne. But the numbers don't lie; it shouldn't be long before that inevitably happens. If the fandom is "festering" with Nazis (all 0.0014% of them), then hoo boy are we rampant with foalcon cloppers: approximately 0.008% (give or take 0.0005).
Both need to go, don't get me wrong, but if I see another blog post about how the fandom is rampant with radicalized, ideologically-driven zealots... I just don't want to see our fandom torn in two by a bunch of phantom Nazis.
5316991
I.... actually have nothing to respond to this but... well, except this.
thumbs.gfycat.com/InsignificantMediumCattle-max-1mb.gif
Edit: Actually, I do have a response. Are there some speaking out about this? Yes, there are, but it's yet to really grab ahold of the fandom as it should have. Of course, on the other hand, once the Nazi thing is done with, for all I know the fandom will move onto this.
I hope they do.
My family on my father's side comes from Jewish and Romani origins.
So when we say 'Bugger the Nazis', we mean it!
Trying to be the better person was the main issue here. It wasn't solely down to laziness or naivety. We wanted to prove we weren't like them and we wouldn't attack the opinions we disagree with.
Over time, however, this odd resurgence in Neo-Nazi philosophies and the like has allowed them to, rather counter-intuitively, declare themselves an oppressed minority (Somehow forgetting what the Nazis were fond of doing to those sorts of people).
Idealogies, we shouldn't try to silence. It only makes them louder from another end.
But if they are trying to coerce a group or community and find a base of authority to carry out their policies, yeah, it's time for them to shove off.
We allowed the Nazis to grow powerful once.
Never again.
👏 👏 👏
5316784
Look, I'm all for a civilized discussion and debate of ideologies, but this is about something that's been long since proven wrong. Look at all the Holocaust museums. Look at the war it helped spark. Look where the ideology lead.
There's your proof. There's your ridicule.
I think it's safe to say we're long past the point of discussion it comes to Nazi ideology. We already know what it entails, what it demands, and what the final culmination of it looks like. We've seen it before, and it cost the lives of untold millions.
5317417
And that's fine. I'm not defending Nazis. I hate them. What I am defending is the idea that not everyone someone disagrees with is automatically a Nazi. Further, it isn't enough to merely point to history and go "there's your proof, right there!" If that were the case, we wouldn't have people openly defending and advocating for Communism despite the reality of the Holodomor, the Gulag Archipelago, and the reality of Venezuala. Bad ideas must be disproven constantly, and must be defeated using the language of the time instead of relying on the past.
So i do have a question, do you know exactly how many actual Nazis there are or is it "anyone draws a Swastikas' is a Nazi" cause if thats the case youve already lost since teenagers draw it to be edgy.
Honestly though im going to refer to something i read a while ago regarding censorship.
do you honestly think people are so feeble minded that they are going to suddenly start goose stepping just because they saw an OC? that people are so easily swayed?
Honestly the tool of silencing people is used when you are unable to disprove what they say wrong, its admitting your own stance and argument are weaker, that they are right and thus must be silenced to be stopped.
the public opinion is that Nazis are scum, this hasnt changed as its the most reviled ideology in the world. Its to the point that anyone who says Nazi crap is seen as a dumb teenager being edgy.
Nazis are not gaining any ground in the fandom and never were, what you have are a handful of artist drawing something aesthetic they like, not that they agree with the ideology. Liking the aesthetic of something is not agreement.
This is the same argument Extra Credit used to say playing a WWII german soldier in a video game makes you a nazi or wanting to play on the terrorist side in Counter Strike means you support terrorists.
and what i like about this is the fact filtering it did fine right up till there was a spot light (there is a reason this is being seen as virtue signaling) and now people want to do exactly what the filters already did....block it from you having to see something you dont want to see. Its the exact same system just being forced on everyone rather then a choice, its rather authoritarian to remove choices from people.
And also banning something or some one doesn't mean it goes away, it just drives it to the shadows where you dont see it, once more, what the filters already did and now you have no idea who is who.
5317446
What i find interesting in agreement with you is that its because of those museums and that past that is why actual Nazism has no foothold and is on the fringes of society and the only one mainly quoting it the most are edgy teens. Like is aid above its the single most reviled ideology there ever was despite Comunismn killing far far far more people in history.
Everyone knows Nazis are bad, there is no debate there. I support free speech even for those i hate because you dont defeat things through silencing it like i said above.
just realized im going to repeat what is aid above.
The fact is the number of actual nazis in the fandom id wager are insanely low because they cant actually gain a foothold anywhere because no one will listen or agree with them.
People seem to have forgotten that liking the aesthetic of something doesnt mean you support what spawned it. if that was the case i'd be a hardcore religious person whose part of multiple religions because i like the art religions has produced over the years and it can very easily be argued religion has killed more people since it was the cause of nearly all wars before more recent history as well as multiple atrocities and still is rather intolerant of LGBT. So since i like the art of religions i must support them and agree with them and cant support LGBT rights.
5317719
Oh, I totally agree on this front, BUT we also shouldn't allow those who actually subscribe to these ideologies to gain any foothold, anywhere. Never again. In the end, tolerance allows the resurgence of these ideals. The moment you put on a Swastika, that shows where you stand. We allowed the Nazis to gain power, never again.
5317725
Tolerance allows us to challenge and change other out of radical ideas, the moment anyone starts attacking, and censoring others because they believe in Nazism or the such, we end of creating hardened radicals who will go to any length to support there ideology.
We live in age where ideas are constantly being shared, we do not and should not try to shutdown any possible conversation, especially the ones that can change a person. These internet witch hunts do not anything but harden individuals in their beliefs, and further create mire radicals.
Argue your case, not shut it down no matter the topic wether be it nazism, loli/foalcon.
5317892
There is a line, I admit. I've given this a fair amount of thought. Admittedly, tolerance can help in some regards. Not always, but sometimes.
There's this black preacher, I don't remember the name at the top of my head right now that actually managed to befriend the KKK and change some of them around. However, on the other hand, FIMfic is not Discord. It's a fanfiction site first and foremost. A very ahead of the curb fanfiction site, but still a fanfiction site.
It has forums and such, but it's not really a social media site. However, I do agree. There is a line. You do want to be known as the bar who doesn't accept Nazis, but what you don't want to be known as is the bar that starts internet witch hunts. The issue here, admittedly, is about the controversial stories -and they should be controversial- not the discourse itself surrounding the controversy.
There is a possible line to be crossed here, where we become like Mccarthy all over again. Impossible to tell who's using Ayranne as a joke, if not a bad one, and those who legitimately believe her and what she stands for to them. And I agree, as outlined above in the main post, that we should not cross it. I do have faith in the community, we're part of the same species which built the Great Wall and went to space. If we come together properly, we can do anything.
Well said.
Just got linked this. Fantastic blog!
And oh my fucking god, you really got a "first they came for the Nazis" comment.