Is Celestia a tyrant? No. Incompetent? Yes. · 2:21pm Jul 5th, 2017
In honor of the United States of America’s independence, I present you with this blog piece. A critical analysis of government and politics as seen in MLP.
One of the most common fan fiction "alternative" portrayals of Princess Celestia is that she’s a tyrant. She’ll banish you to the moon in a heartbeat, where you may or may not find bananas. She has secret dungeons under her castle where she keeps political prisoners.
However, that characterization only works in comedy, or in an alternate universe. In the show, Celestia is not a tyrant, for several reasons:
1. Would a tyrant really allow Discord to walk free and pose a risk to her power? No way.
2. Celestia allows her subjects to live their lives in relative economic freedom, with the ability to follow their chosen career paths, open a business, and purchase goods and services from shops.
3. A free press with competing newspapers exists. Including those which publish unflattering news about the princess herself. “Celestia is a cake addict, like Marie Antoinette!”
4. Legally-sanctioned slavery and forced labor do not exist in Equestria. Slavery is harshly criticized and fought by ponies where it does appear. See: the Crystal Empire.
5. Potentially dangerous spells are mostly unregulated. In real life, most tyrants like gun control, because an armed populace might get fed up and revolt against their tyranny. Hitler disarmed the Jews, for instance. But you can go to any library in Equestria and find magic books.
6. The only exception appears to be dark magic like King Sombra uses because that magic is “evil.” Also time travel spells seen under Celestia's guard in "It's About Time" for obvious reasons, but that's probably for the best.
So Celestia isn’t a tyrant. However, that still leaves the question of whether she’s a good, moral leader. Or whether she’s a poor leader, incompetent even, and warrants a revolution against her. Which is what this blog answers. Yes, she is incompetent and should be replaced. By force, if necessary.
First off, she’s a princess, and isn’t elected by the people. She has no term limits and has ruled for thousands of years. Thus, she isn’t forced to be directly responsive to the people’s will. So unless she is literally perfect in every way, she will inevitably be worse than a system in which other politicians can run against her in an election. They could propose better ideas on running things. Equestria is a peaceful and tolerant society, but Equestria under Celestia’s rule is far from perfect. From earliest to latest by when the problem first appears in the show:
- Healthcare is expensive enough to where a hard-working pony like Applejack doesn't already have enough savings to pay for her granny's hip replacement. Nor does Granny Smith have health insurance to pay for it herself, despite being very elderly.
- Cutie marks would inevitably mean widespread discrimination against non-pony races, as explained in a prior blog. We don’t see any cows, donkeys, or others in positions of any real authority or consequence. They just kinda sit there in the farm and do nothing.
- There is no national game and wildlife division, or animal control department, to stop things like parasprites, smoke-snoring dragons, or other threats from wildlife that we see in Equestria. Instead the Mane Six have to solve it, but Equestria is huge. What if there were a snoring dragon near Manehattan?
- Bullying is a consistent problem in schools for the CMC, but there appears to be no nationwide anti-bullying campaign like we see in real life.
- Twilight Sparkle never had to apologize to the entire town, or make restitution for her want-it, need-it mind control spell. The experience of being under mind control (“mind rape”) might cause some people severe psychological trauma, which would require counseling. Instead, Twilight was offered a princess position a short time later.
- Scam-artists like Flim and Flam aren’t in jail, or forced to pay back the ponies they ripped off, at least not on screen.
- Equestria’s royal guard failed to stop the changeling attack on Canterlot, even though they might have been able to do so if Celestia had recruited more soldiers or given them better weapons/ training.
- Trixie never has to pay for the property damage or emotional trauma that she caused when she used the alicorn amulet.
- Rarity never has to pay for the property damage that she did when she transfigured the town, at least not on screen, despite having the money to do so and being the element of Generosity. She doesn't even help clean up the mess, instead leaving it to Cadance and Twilight. Ouch.
- By season four, the earlier mentioned problems would begin to compound on each other. Vigilante justice a la Mare Do Well would start to become a real problem in Equestria due to its near-total lack of law enforcement. Ponies with a legitimate grudge against the mane six, Trixie, Flim and Flam, etc. would attempt to steal money from them or get revenge for their past wrongs against them. Ponies annoyed by polluting dragons might not be as nice as the elements of harmony/friendship, and could cause a diplomatic incident.
- Starlight Glimmer. If being under mind control once isn’t enough to make you need counseling, what about being brainwashed for years and having your talent stripped from you? Who’s paying for all the therapy bills of her old town? Not Starlight Glimmer, that’s for sure… she’s unemployed so far as we can tell.
- Equestria’s intelligence agency (which Bon Bon is part of) failed to protect Equestria from the Changelings. They didn’t stop any of the kidnap attempts. They didn’t infiltrate the changeling hive in disguise and perhaps figure out what their plan was.
I didn't even include the events of Royal Trouble, because that was a personal matter between Celestia and Luna. I still submit it as further evidence that she is not infallible so does not deserve an unlimited rule. Celestia is far from a perfect ruler, since the bullet point problems above happened on her watch. In some cases she has had thousands of years to take action and solve these problems but she hasn't. So she is flawed as a leader, if not downright incompetent. Since she is flawed, we need checks and balances on her, and she cannot be allowed absolute power.
But we see absolutely zero checks and balances in the show. There is no parliament or congress which could propose new laws or repeal old ones. We see no court system which could potentially rule against any of Celestia’s actions or edicts. Celestia faces little or no risk of a military coup, either. The military of Equestria is incredibly small and appears to only consist of the Royal Guard and the Wonderbolts. This is despite the many threats that Equestria faces throughout the show from opposing armies such as Changelings or the Crystal Empire, which absolutely justify and necessitate a larger military. Either Celestia is an incompetent Commander in Chief and should be replaced, or keeping the military weak is a conscious decision on her part to avoid a coup.
Celestia has absolute legislative power, unless there’s some sort of hidden congress that passes laws which she has no veto power over. But we never see a single Senator, representative, member of parliament, etc. even though we see about a dozen princes, princesses, dukes, etc. throughout the show’s run. If the writers had intended for Celestia to have a check on her power, we’d have seen it by now in seven seasons. Same deal if Equestria were a direct democracy with referendums. In that case, we’d have seen polling booths or a vote or something… like we saw them vote for class president in that one CMC episode. The only elections that are referenced or seen are local, for Mayor of Ponyville. No national votes, though.
“What about the other royals and nobles? Aren’t they a check on Celestia’s power?” No. All the royals and nobles that we’ve seen in the show, except when Luna became Nightmare Moon, seem to like Celestia. She yuks it up with them in Grand Galloping Galas every year. True, she doesn’t like going to galas and does it more out of formality, but that’s hardly a “check on her power.” It’s a royal duty. Rich, aloof nobles like Blueblood or Fancy Pants aren’t accountable to the people of Equestria.
Regular, everyday ponies are powerless in Equestria. Say that Berry Punch is unhappy with taxes placed on grapes, or regulations, or some other law that she doesn’t like. Or maybe Berry Punch wants Equestria to get a larger military so that there isn’t so much risk of them being invaded again. What is her political recourse to change things? So far as I can see it, she has none. She can write a letter, and hope that Celestia both sees it and agrees with it. But if Celestia doesn’t agree, or doesn’t see it among the thousands of letters that she gets? Then Berry Punch has absolutely no recourse at all. Despite paying taxes to the government, she gets nothing in return. No vote, no referendums, no say in where the money goes. You know what that’s called? Taxation without representation, like what drove the American colonists to rebel in 1776.
There would have to be taxes in Equestria. We see grand, fully-staffed palaces, regal balls, state-run education like Celestia’s School, and a military (albeit small). Somebody would need to pay for all that. Since there isn’t hyperinflation and ponies aren’t hauling around wheelbarrows full of golden bits, I’m going to assume that Celestia isn’t just minting new coins every time that she wants to throw a party or pay her guards’ salaries. The only other way to raise that kind of money is through taxes. Which we know do exist in at least some degree. In “The Ticket Master,” one of the background ponies shouts “I’ll do your taxes!” to try to get Twilight’s ticket.
“But that’s just one throwaway line in an early episode before things were established!” you might object. Well, if it were me, I'd put your word 'established' in air quotes because the post-Faust writers are terrible at worldbuilding. It's from an early episode, true. Even still, I submit it as evidence that taxes are the normal way of raising revenue in Equestria. I doubt the line would’ve made it into the final script if it had been, “I’ll wax your car!” The fact that this line made it in indicates that, in the minds of the writers, taxes existed in Equestria. And Faust, assuming she approved the line.
So what’s our conclusion here?
Equestria, while not a dystopia, is flawed. It has some significant internal problems and faces huge external threats that are not properly planned for. However, these problems would not be impossible to solve. A different leader with a different approach might be able to do better. That, or a congress which could pass laws without Celestia able to veto them. However, there is simply no way to challenge Celestia’s incompetence through legal means. No voting exists, no congress, no courts, no judges. Illegal means like a military coup are not feasible due to the military's weakness.
Thus, the only solution to Equestria’s problems is a revolution by the people. Arming the revolution would be rather simple, because Celestia again does not restrict magic like teleportation or invisibility which would be useful in a revolution… she’s incompetent, but not a tyrant. Fighting the revolution would also be easy, due to Equestria’s small military to fight against. Some of the military might even side with the rebels.
Celestia might be an alicorn, but alicorns aren’t gods. Chrysalis defeated Celestia during the wedding, then kidnapped her later. Starlight held Twilight to a draw and she’s just a single unicorn. But if a thousand aggrieved cows, donkeys, buffalo, earth ponies, pegasi, and unicorns armed with the best spells they could muster decided to revolt against Celestia, she wouldn’t stand a chance. That’s just one possibility, though. There are dozens of other ways a revolution could play out. An assassination could also occur.
A revolution needs to happen. I’ve been considering possibilities for one or more stories around this idea. The Trouble With Unicorns addressed it, but that is an alternate universe story. Looking back, my characterization of Celestia was more on the “tyrannical” side in TTWU, not really reflecting what we see in the show. I want to do something that’s more faithful to the source material. Namely that she's hugely incompetent at running her country and that ponies would eventually get fed up and demand change.
Additionally, Starlight Glimmer should really pay her town’s therapy bills as part of her redemption process. Forgiveness is not the same as atonement. You can forgive somebody and harbor no anger towards them in your heart, but still expect them to compensate you for what they did. And if they were truly reformed, they would have no objection to doing so because they’d want to help you in your emotional healing process. Help you put the past behind you. Help them put the past behind them.
If you don’t mind spoilers for my upcoming works, here is a very minor one.
My new Starlight Glimmer story will incorporate one or more of the many thoughts I’ve presented in this blog.
It would be a lot easier for me to list, from that massive list of bullet points, all of the things that Equestria actually cares about in the whole big-picture grand scheme of things. So imma do that.
And I'm done.
MLP is "terrible at worldbuilding" because that is not its job as a show. MLP is a character-focused situational comedy about interpersonal relationships. The magical land of Equestria with a monarchy and defined territories is a fantastic bonus. And while, yes, the society is flawed, it tends to get along just fine, and over the course of these seven seasons, it's shocking just how many of those things in your list were solved (or at least rendered not worth caring much about anymore) by the powers of friendship and or love holy crap it's 100%.
(Seriously, mah dood, you and Cryo and I just talked about how retribution isn't a priority in Equestria. So you'll forgive me if this post, quite frankly, mystifies me.)
This is a series where there were only three onscreen wars--one being an AU apocalypse, one that was called due to a hate-powered blizzard that caused its participants to think better of it, and one that was fought with pies. Any "worldbuilding", any new territory we get or piece of legislation, is icing and is invariably introduced as either a joke or a vehicle to teach that episode's moral, and then summarily forgotten. Rainbow blew up a city cause her turtle was going to
diehibernate. Spike completely hosed a delegates' dinner. The M6 were brainwashed by Discord years before Starlight ever entered the scene. The CMC engaged in potentially life-threatening feats in because they wanted cutie marks. Nopony ever cared outside of the immediate moment.Like, I almost pasted that picture of Pinkie Pie doing her taxes here, but I can't be sure that the text is real as the (official) flash game used to make it isn't working anymore, at least for me. But that picture encapsulates the priority that MLP places versus what this post, and quite frankly, bronydom as a whole, places on such things.
These are all things that Earth cares about. For Equestria, they're side thoughts at best, because Equestria holds friendship as literally the thing that holds society (and if Twilight is to be believe in the S5 finale) the physical world together. And as we've seen after seven seasons, this stuff tends to solve itself eventually.
Like, maybe this'll help:
Eddie is the fandom. Roger is Equestria.
I realize that this drives fans, especially scholarly ones, crazy. Sometimes it still gets me even these days. Because yeah, by all of our established critical metrics, it's completely haphazard storytelling. But it's also telling the story of a better world, where most of Equestria's inhabitants, Twilight Sparkle included, would just look at that list and shrug.
Friendship always wins eventually. Even over taxes.
And that's the better world.
Celestia isn't doing any worse than anypony else would. She's hardly a ruler. Really, she's... just their mom. (And Luna's the crazy but well-meaning and useful aunt. :D)
4592906
Worldbuilding is never really the first job of any show or any story. The first job of a story is to be a good story. If worldbuilding helps, then great, it's a secondary task to complete your primary job to its fullest. Worldbuiliding would help MLP immensely. MLP would be a much better show if they sticked to Faust's original bible, assuming they still have it. She had quite a lot of things all thought out for how Equestria was supposed to work exactly. How many of those ideas have been completely disregarded or never built further on since she left the show? Several of them that I can think of. Faust was never infallible, and even some S1 and S2 episodes were stinkers. But she did a lot better of a job than the current crop of writers.
Everything that you just said is right, except for the comedy aspect. There are plenty of funny moments in MLP. Even funny episodes or crazy episodes like Cheese Sandwich. That being said, just because the show has some funny moments, doesn't make it "A comedy." The show has some dark moments too, and even entire dark episodes. Way darker than anything that I ever watched as a kid. Does that make it a "thriller" or a "horror show?" No.
MLP is a character-focused, continuity based show about interpersonal relationships. The one area where Faust didn't hold true to her ideals, that later writers actually did manage to improve on, was the continuity aspect. In that Faust wanted a serial, the network wanted standalone episodes that you could watch in basically any order. S1 and S2 mostly held true to the network's demands. But after Faust left, the show began getting more continuity. Now it has an evolving plotline to such an extent to where even "slice of life" episodes now require extensive knowledge and backstory to truly watch. Or to truly get the jokes. Which, if it were a comedy, you wouldn't really want that. "Continuity porn" is like cancer to comedy. Believe me, I've written plenty of comedy. You can have continuity in a comedy, but it has to be limited so that new viewers aren't lost and miss the jokes.... as they would in MLP.
Think of one of my favorite recent episodes. The one where Starlight meets Maud. You would have to know all about Starlight's past, which is explained over four episodes. You'd also have to have at least basic knowledge of who Maud is beyond just what they tell you in that episode. Otherwise her personality would just seem bizarre without having that episode where OTHER ponies find it bizarre, too, over the course of the whole episode. You need context of the Maud introduction episode, I think, to get the jokes, especially if you're a little kid with not-as-developed social skills and brains as we older fans have. So that's five episodes you'd have to watch, now.
A situational comedy like Seinfeld, South Park, or The Simpsons... or ones for younger kids like Fairly OddParents or SpongeBob, never usually assumes that you've seen more than two, at most three, episodes. The jokes and plotlines mostly stand on their own. Except for those rare few episodes where they have, like, cast reunions and it's a big deal because it's a 100th episode special or something to please longtime fans. But the Maud/Starlight episode wasn't that. It was just a random SOL episode. I could make the same argument with A Royal Problem. You'd have to watch at least seven episodes to truly get the jokes and stuff in that episode--Let alone the story itself. Episodes 1 and 2 where we see nightmare moon. Nightmare night where we see her again for the first time and she is re-introduced to society. All four of Starlight Glimmers' episodes. If you're a relatively new viewer, what are the chances you've seen all seven of those episodes? Slim to none.
Let's see here. I will address only three of my 12 points in that list, because some are the same sorts of issues, and some are addressed elsewhere in my reply.
1. Healthcare being made affordable for lower-class and middle-class ponies? Nope. Applejack eventually did get the money for her granny's operation, but that doesn't solve why it was so expensive in the first place. It also doesn't solve any other ponies' problems in her similar situation. What if somepony doesn't have any friends, but an operation is so expensive that they can't get it and they'll die without it?
There are a couple of ways you could propose to fix this. One is a single-payer system, or a universal system, where everybody is covered by the government (what Democrats would advocate). Another is a public-private mix (what Republicans would advocate). Another is deregulation of the health care industry to allow for prices to come down to a more affordable level (What libertarians, and myself would advocate), then the magic of private charity and friendship could cover those ponies too poor even for the now-cheaper procedures. But my point is that there should be a debate. There is no debate. Just Celestia who in 1,000 years has not yet fixed her broken healthcare system. One where a HERO OF EQUESTRIA who presumably saves a lot of money can't even pay for her granny to have such a basic quality-of-life operation as a hip replacement so that she doesn't have to have a walker all the time.
2. We still don't see any donkeys, cattle, mules, buffalo etc. as mayors, policemen, or even small shopkeepers. In fact we barely even see them walking around town at all even though there are dozens of them who live in Applejack's barn alone. They are to a large extend confined to farms. I'm sure that it's not a law that they have to be there. But perhaps because they don't have cutie marks and are unable to get them in a certain skill, there is an unconscious discrimination bias towards them for nonfarm jobs. Perhaps because of how low those jobs pay (due to high supply of labor) they then have little money to spend and go shopping. This is one of the same sorts of problems that blacks faced in America during Jim Crow. Judged solely for their skin. In our case, judged solely for the lack of a mark on their skin.
Maybe Celestia could hire a really qualified donkey onto her security squad. Or *several* of them, plus cows and buffalo or whatever. Then when the aloof, perhaps prejudiced ponies come there, they say, "how is he a good guard, he has no cutie mark?" And she says, "Well, you don't need a cutie mark to be a good guard. Non-ponies are very valuable because they're blank slates. They can become good at anything with enough determination. They're just as valuable as employees as you and I would be, even with a cutie mark." Then private companies see this example, see the guard's excellent performance at his duties, and they start hiring from a vast, as-yet untapped pool of potential employees. Which gives those more forward-thinking companies an advantage over their competitors, but also allows them to provide better goods and services to their customers at a lower price, improving the general economy.
3. Reformed villains having to actually pay reparations for their crimes? Nope, not fixed. Don't mistake hate-filled retribution for needed reparations paid by former criminals to their victims. Again, my views on forgiveness have not changed. The show gets that right mostly. However, don't confuse forgiveness with making amends. They're two different processes (that could happen in any order, actually, but we'll assume that forgiveness happens first in this example.) If somebody deliberately hurts me, then they tell me that they now realize they were wrong (and I believe them), and if they promise not to do it again, and if they promise to fix the problem with their mind that caused them to hurt me in the first place, then I will forgive them. As in, I won't harbor any ill will towards them in my heart. I won't deliberately speak in anger against their current self. And I will offer them the chance to prove themselves genuine over time. That is the forgiveness component.
However, if somebody has harmed me, my merely forgiving them does not undo that harm. I still have lost property, or have psychological damage, or I've lost money. If that person is truly reformed and truly does want to make everything right again, then they would have no compunction about trying their very best to make me whole again. Especially if we're now friends. My friend would gladly do that, because of friendship. Friends help each other out. I still need help... that I only need because of something they were responsible for and admit they shouldn't have done. So why shouldn't they help me out? That is the component of making amends.
We'll count two of them as real wars, then. But that's still two pretty major wars that happened (or could have happened if things only went slightly differently due to random chance). The Equestria that we see when the changelings invaded was wholly-unprepared for war. Say that Spike had missed when he threw that crystal heart. Sombra would've continued to live, perhaps he would have formed an army and invaded (As happened in the AU.) You can't just rely on "luck" as your national security strategy. You can't just pray that you never get attacked. That makes you simply incompetent as a military leader.
Were they really "solved," Though? Can severe emotional trauma and distress really be "solved" by just having friends? Starlight takes many episodes to go through her trauma and grief and process it, even though she had made new friends by that point who were constantly telling her that she was an okay person. One of the reasons that I like Starlight as a character so much is that they gave her a realistic response to grief (Though admittedly sometimes stupid). To Where And Back Again got it spot on though. There is no way she could've wanted to put up so much as a single decoration in that town after what she'd been through.
She's doing worse than America's leaders, as flawed as they are. Because we're a republic, and they're a monarchy. A republic allows for reasoned discussion. A monarchy does not.
We've solved Jim Crow. Blacks can get any job a white can. One was even our president. Ben Carson was an accomplished neurosurgeon. When was the last time you saw a non-pony doctor on the show? We see doctors in several episodes, don't recall seeing anyone but a pony in that job (if I'm wrong please correct me). Don't recall anyone but ponies serving on Celestia's guard staff, even though a strong donkey could probably knock the teeth out of any threat to her.
Our healthcare might be expensive, but it's not that expensive to where a middle-class person can't even afford a hip replacement. Or even a lower-middle-class person; you won't convince me that Applejack is poor though but even if she was poor she might still afford it better than she did in the show. Even if she couldn't afford it, there's no way that a national hero's family member would be left without it for more than two seconds. The V.A. would step in, as slow as they are. Or there would be a private charity drive, which would probably reach its goal in three days, not over a season.
Our court system would generally allow for a victim to sue the person who wronged them and collect a monetary settlement. Which has nothing to do with retribution, it has to do with making people whole again like they were before. So that they can heal and they aren't fucked over with psychiatrist bills, or damaged property and a damaged livelihood, or a wrecked savings account.
Eh, I get a lot of the points but I'd argue the slavery one. I still think of Spike as some sort of endentured servant or something, one who doesn't even know he's a slave to Twilight.
As for Celestia's incompetence, I'd almost say she doesn't care. She has her sister back, Twilight's made it... actually it could also be that Celestia's gotten so used to the peace of the last 1k years she's become a pacifist herself.
One thing that gets me though. The Mane six go on all of these, sometimes life threatening, missions for the crown and receive nothing for their trouble. AJ is a hero of the country and still works herself into a stupor.
4592990 I dunno. If your parents make you do your chores, are you their slave? I've always kinda seen Twilight as a combination of Spike's mother, and his much older sister who takes care of him. It takes a certain amount of work to run a household, and it's entirely possible that Spike's payment is his being taught those things, and responsibility in general. Which are skills which will serve him well when (if? if he can?) he grows up and has his own household. Or moves in with the dragons and has his own cave, whatever, even they probably have chores to clean and maintain what they have. Spike also seems to have quite a lot of gems to eat, snacks, etc. Maybe he gets paid in junk food. Or he gets an allowance. Who knows.
>> that Celestia's gotten so used to the peace of the last 1k years she's become a pacifist herself.
We don't know if the last 1k years have been entirely peaceful or not. A couple of the villains mentioned besides Luna come from that time (like Sombra) so it's not like it was just a millenium where nothing happened.
Judging by the show, though, we've seen like half a dozen major and half a dozen minor villains in seven seasons, which we will assume are years. Assuming that this is average for Equestria, and not just an abnormally exciting time to be alive, that's about two villains per year. Some major like Sombra or Tirek, some minor like Trixie or Flim and Flam, whatever. That's about 2,000 villains that Equestria has had in the past 1,000 years. Gosh, who even fought them without the mane six around? Maybe Equestria had, you know, a larger military, and a more competent intelligence service.
My theory is that Celestia hasn't always been this incompetent. At one point she was probably a very good leader. 1,000 years of raising both the sun and the moon really tired her out, though. Or maybe she's just getting old and her mental faculties are diminishing. I won't say Alzhimers necessarily, but I think it's certainly a possibility. Alicorns are not immortal so far as we know. They just live a really long time.
Equestria has all of the classic signs of a society in decay. Which is rampant cronyism in the form of the nobles, increasing lawlessness, increasing costs of living, and leaders who are so old and out-of-touch with their people's problems that Celestia might as well say "let them eat cake."
She does not have to be perfect, just better than anyone who might run against her. In contrast, a system by which elected individuals do "compete" with each other gives us a reality where Trump is our president, and if it hadn't been him it would have been Hilary Clinton. Your point is simply wrong.
The only time Celestia being a princess and not elected is bad is if someone actually does come forth who is better than her. At which point we don't know she would defend her throne or step down. She, unlike real world monarchy, did not get her throne by virtue of lucky birth but by merit. She and Luna defeated Discord, freeing Equestria from his chaotic and miserable rule. Prior to that, we don't know if they were the leaders beforehand or if Princess Platinum's line was the rulers. But whatever Equestria's system of government, Celestia and Luna were definitely given their throne by the will of the people.
Emphasis mine.
And we're done. This is a show that doesn't go into the nitty gritty details of justice. It's a show about friendship. The complaints you have don't form good friendship stories. So they happen off-screen.
A bit off topic, but what political positions do you think the main characters would hold? Here's my take:
Twilight: aristocrat, maybe Independent
Applejack: Republican conservative
Rarity: likely aristocrat
Rainbow Dash: Democrat liberal
Fluttershy: supporter of the Green Party?
Pinkie Pie: maybe liberal
Celestia: monarchy of course
4593002
As bad as you may or may not think that Donald Trump is, he at least wants to bring down the cost of healthcare. He at least wants to build a bigger military, and defend our borders from invading armies or groups of people, whatever the case. He at least wants to fix the ghettos and liberate African Americans from the crime and poverty of inner cities. He never states that we should just put them in a farm and pretend they don't exist for anything other than one job like pumping milk. He at least cares about the victims of crime, like Kate Steinle, and making them or their families whole again. (Forgiveness for truly repentant people is important, yes. But we shouldn't forget the victims of their crimes either. If these criminals are truly reformed, they'd have no problem paying a lawsuit settlement to the victims/families for what they did. Because, as reformed people, the ex-criminals would also want the victims to be made just as whole as they were before the crime.)
Now maybe you could argue that 1. Mr. Trump isn't genuine when he says he wants to do these things, or 2. He wants to go about doing those things in the wrong way, or that 3. those things shouldn't even be done at all, even if feasible. Arguments could be made for all three. However, if you argue those points with me, you know what you've just had? A discussion. Whether he's right or wrong on this issue or that, doesn't matter so much as the fact that people are talking about it. With reason. Humans and ponies live by reason. We're not like fish where our instincts tell us how to swim upstream or eat insects. We have to think to build shelter. We have to think to make clothes.
Celestia is wrong every now and then, as A Royal Problem shows. A political system with active debate would allow for her bad ideas (even if they were few) to be more readily challenged. Political systems with voting allow for the voters to think, to reason, and to hopefully come up with something better. It's how we in real life got stuff like women's rights, end of slavery, legalized homosexuality, etc. People talked and told others that it was wrong to oppress these people, because they were thinking, rational people with human rights just like everyone else. Equestria's current system is anti-reason. It is thus anti-life. It is thus, immoral. You cannot dispute this, no matter how popular Celestia might be, nor how lucky she might have been in maintaining her power for 1,000 years. You could flip a coin 1,000 times and it could come up heads every time. It's really unlikely but it could happen.
The only time that we have ever seen Celestia change her mind on something with important implications to Equestria's future, she had to be forced to do so. By Starlight forcibly switching her cutie marks with her sister. Because otherwise she would not see reason, and her and Luna's bickering would risk re-igniting the Nightmare Moon Crisis. Or risk having their country left with a divided leadership should a different villain-of-the-month have shown up. Starlight did exactly what she should have, given what was at stake and how the princesses were acting (out of character, but still). The Cutie Map was correct that only Glimmer could have done that mission because she is the only malcontent, politically-minded, rebel character in the show. Even if it never picked a non-mane-six character before, none of them could've or would've stood up to the princesses, so it decided on Glimmer. True, Celestia and Luna were not in character for the first half of that episode. But some people argue that Royal Problem makes Starlight into a Mary Sue by giving her a contrived problem to solve that only she could solve. Exactly the opposite. It is actually the show trying to address a fundamental problem with its monarchy that has existed since the beginning. Because it's a problem with all absolute monarchies. Monarchy is an anti-reason, anti-life, immoral system.
That wasn't "off screen." That was one of the most compelling friendship lessons that we've ever gotten in the entire show. In the same way, focusing on Starlight's redemption as a villain was powerful, and her forgiveness was powerful. But what if she tried to actually do something to make her former victims whole? Go to group therapy with them... because being in a cult for years and having your talent stripped must be just as traumatic as it was for Glimmer to lose Sunburst as a friend. There could be some interesting, maybe even funny, but definitely powerful scenes from that group therapy thing. I honestly think that it should've been it's own episode where she returns to the town. Not tacked on to the Changeling hive infiltration.
In the same way. Say that Celestia isn't as bad as I think she is. Okay, then she should change her country for the better. She could hire a bunch of highly-qualified donkeys or cows for her royal guard. I'm sure they're plenty capable and could kick your teeth in if you threatened the princess. Then, the nobles and everybody else sees them and scratches their heads, because the only place that we ever see cows is in a farm doing nothing. They hardly ever leave to go around town and go shopping in Ponyville, probably because they're poor as dirt. They're poor as dirt because they can't find good jobs other than making milk, which is a low-paying job due to the high number of cows all doing one similar job. They can't get better jobs, because ponies assume that because they don't have cutie marks, they won't be good for anything other than milk production or whatever. But the nobles ask Celestia why she hired a bunch of cows. She tells them that cows are just as capable as ponies even if they don't have cutie marks to show it. Then, once the cows demonstrate themselves against a threat, then some of the nobles or businessmen start to hire cows in their own company. Over the course of the rest of the season, maybe two seasons, we start to see more and more of them around. Until they're just *there.* They're 10% of the population that nobody even bats an eye at. 10% of every background shot. 10% of all the jobs that we see, that they're able to do obviously (probably no cow wonderbolts in our future, lol).
THAT would be a powerful fucking episode. A powerful arc. A powerful season. It would teach a great lesson to kids about accepting the most qualified person to do a job, and not prejudging somebody.
Why haven't we seen it yet? I thought of it in ten minutes, and it still needs fleshing out, and even STILL it's better than half the crap we actually see in the show past season 3 or so. There's a few gems like Starlight. They're unfortunately rare.
4593107
And that discussion is important in real life. Sure.
It isn't important to have in Equestria. You assume ponies don't have that conversation. You cited a few things that support that claim. But you're also demonstrating clear biases. You state, without support, that monarchy is immoral. That only a system where the leader changes periodically can work.
I am not interested in having that discussion though. I simply don't care. I am not some political science major, and I'm not interested in poking around for the "at least" good bits you've found.
You claim Celestia is bad due to a) some mistakes and b) your blind bias against the possibility that her rule is just, benevolant, and the best possible rule for Equestria. You miss how in A Royal Problem, Luna (while doing some of Celestia's duties) helps arbitrate between two government officials on some topic that took three hours, but ended in a cordial conclusion that was obviously mutually agreeable. You gloss over the fact that not only is Mayor Mare elected official of Ponyville, every town has one as seen in Princess Spike (interestingly, Fancy Pants is mayor of Canterlot).
There is evidence that her system of government does indeed take into account the voices of the populace, and has mechanisms for other ideas to get heard in as efficient a system as is possible for a government of a large nation to allow.
You are inserting your own bias into this. You are asserting points as fact that the show does not and should not bother being explicit on in order to prove you right or prove you wrong. You are missing the point. This show and the land of Equestria serves as a place to demonstrate how friendship is magic. It is important. That is it. Surrounding that by realism isn't important. Surrounding it by a system that addresses our concerns wouldn't make it better, it would make it invariably cynical and tedious and boring. There are far too many non-friendship things in the world to address fairly, realistically, and satisfactorally, and we'd never get to friendship if we did so.
So, it's a magic land where horses control the weather, migrations, play at having jobs and an economy, sell food when eating rocks will perfectly sustain them, wear clothes when they can make it naked-weather every day if they so chose, and things like government and taxes are for fun, not necessity. Hell, you can pay your tab in bits, gems, or probably smiles if you felt like it. We saw Rarity paying for things in Rarity Takes Manehatten with the very same gems that are in abuncance underneath both Ponyville and Canterlot, the same ones Spike snacks on, and Maud pointed out in Rock Solid Friendship as common.
If you want to take it seriously, then just look at it that way. Ponies play at things that we have to do and endure by necessity. It's a game. Everyone does what they want, nopony really holds grudges unless it would be fun to do so. Sometimes some of them seem to forget it is all a game, but the show generally reminds them at some point. Sometimes with rainbow laser beams to the face.
A lengthy and interesting blogpost, that I agree and disagree with on certain points. I'm mostly going to be adding details to your points.
Before I dive in, I want to say that you should really be following Oliver, who has written a ton of fantastic blogs over the last two years analyzing in detail various elements of the setting and world of Equestria. If you have time, read through his points of canon blogs. They are fantastic.
I question the legal status of cows and sheep. They're not getting any kind of formal education, they just spend generation after generation living on a farm, trading their milk/wool for a roof over their head. That seems pretty close to forced labor.
Jeebus, mind control magic everywhere! As long as the enslavement spell in question doesn't cause smoke to leak from your eyes, you're good.
Some background here from Journal of the Two Sisters. It's only a book, but it's the only official source we have, and it's backed up by the comics, so: Post-Hearth's Warming Eve, the three tribes were united under some kind of shared rule, with Starswirl the Bearded acting as final arbiter. Then they find these two teenage alicorns wandering the wilderness, and Starswirl makes them Princesses. The idea is that as living symbols of tribal unity, Celestia and Luna will permanently prevent a race war. At first the Princesses are treated as equals with the tribal rulers and they mostly go around fighting monsters to protect Equestria (basically what Luna does now every day).
From the show we know that after the Nightmare Moon incident, Celestia reorganized the military into the EUP, which to me implies a slow-motion coup of gradually snatching up all the government power as everyone else around her dies off without naming a successor.
To me it seems heavily implied that Fluttershy is part of such an organization, that's what's paying her bills. She certainly acts like this is her full-time job.
Ehhh. "Snide remarks" from the Adorabullies are not the same as teenagers being stuffed into lockers or harassed until they commit suicide. I know things are worse in Manehatten, but this seems a little small to make the case for regime change.
We've only seen them actually con ponies once, with the health juice scheme, and if Dr. Oz isn't in jail I doubt they should be too.
The entire agency (named SMILE) was disbanded and Celestia pretended it never existed, after that bugbear escaped. That's probably a worse indictment of Celestia than your original point.
Well, sort of. There is the Grand Pony Summit, which meets yearly, and includes representatives of the largest cities. But they don't appear to have any legal power, they just seem to report to Celestia on how their cities are doing, make requests for royal favors, and do a big team-building exercise at the end. Interestingly enough, this is quite similar to the "Great Councils" English rulers would have before the Magna Carta.
In Season 4 we learn that Twilight Sparkle, by virtue of being an alicorn princess, is effectively 3rd in line for the throne.
Yup. They all seem to have no political power anymore, except for Fancy Pants, and he was probably elected mayor of Canterlot, rather than inheriting it. The single greatest historical parallel with Celestia is probably Louis XIV, who ruled for like 80 years, stripped his nobles of all their power, and distracted them by getting them to all move to the capital, where they spent all their time and money trying to impress him at fancy balls. Louis XIV was also known as the Sun King.
Well, violence may not be needed. Celestia may be incompetent, but she doesn't seem willing to start personally blasting ponies with her own magic if they start marching in the streets (which is what a counter-revolution would require, given the state of the military). Democratic traditions at the local level seem well established, citizens voting in mayors who promise to participate in a national referendum on forming a new government seem like they could deliver change without bloodshed.
.....unless Celestia says she won't raise the sun unless she gets to remain absolute ruler, but then we are firmly in tyrant territory.
4592990
4592995 Spike's situation is unique, because dragon biology is tricky. Spike comes off as someone with an adult brain, a child's emotions, and an infant's body. That said, I do think his situation is unfair. Spike is controlled by Twilight like a child, yet he works more than most adults do. While the CMC are "finding themselves" and have plenty of free time (even though Apple Bloom is a farm girl and probably has lots of chores), Spike is single-handedly taking care of Twilight's every need, and tending to a giant castle.
It seems like Twilight (possibly unintentionally) uses the ambiguity in Spike's physical/mental/emotional maturity levels to selectively interpret his status as an adult/minor in ways that are most beneficial to her.
4593268
You know, the comparison of free time is an interesting point. We almost never see the CMC doing chores. Spike does chores all the time, probably as much as those three combined. Why would one be shown but not the other? Who's doing the housework around Sweet Apple Acres? Applejack and Big Mac, probably. Who's doing it at Twilight's? Not Twilight, other than her book reogranizing. But I'm sure that if Spike could read her mind and knew exactly where she wanted each book, she'd probably have him do that too.
IT's worth noting that Twilight could probably use her magic to get the chores done faster than a little dragon like Spike.
Whereas Applejack and Apple Bloom would be roughly equivalent in their chore-completing abilities.
Rarity would have the edge over Sweetie Belle in earlier seasons due to telekinesis, but SB does learn that later.
So yeah. Now that I think about it more, we're getting closer to borderline slavery here than what I originally thought. Or maybe more like a Cinderella/stepmother part, except that Twilight isn't an evil stepmother. But I would argue that it's all subconscious and mostly unintentional. If Spike ever put up any serious resistance against his chores, I would certainly hope that the princess of friendship would understand his concerns are somewhat valid compared to his peers like the CMC.
4593261
From the bottom of my heart, after responding to snide comments directed at me by the American Bronies thread all day, thank you so much for your in-depth, well-researched reply. Thank you for your level-headed, non-emotional reply that doesn't treat me like an idiot, but rather a smart person who needs to be educated and given new points of view I hadn't considered. You are the best blog reader a person could ask for.
I will read Oliver's blogs. I admit that my knowledge of the canon has more holes in it than Chrysalis' body. What I'm good at is 10,000 foot view of society, backed up by political philosophy, I take specific, general examples to use to support an abstract premise. I haven't seen about 1/4 of the episodes, or about 9/10ths of the comics, but I can easily fill in the gaps with what we do know about the show... if it's at all self-consistent. If you disagree with me, that's fine. I welcome intellectual challenge. I did this as a learning exercise for myself, more than anything. If I'm wrong, I'm more than willing to change my views.
Almost every one of my readers both here and in the American Bronies thread I made on a similar premise sides with Celestia over me. Yeah, I got a group of Americans to almost unanimously say that they support an absolute monarchy with few or no checks and balances, vs. a democratic republic like the USA is. My OP got downvoted to hell and back, and it was actually tamer than this blog... shorter, too. As Queen Amidala says, "So this is how Democracy dies. With thunderous applause."
Only like two people in that thread actually conceded that maybe Equestria might need a parliament or a supreme court to represent them because the people pay taxes. You know, the same thing that we revolted against. Are Celestia's crimes as bad as King George? No, but that doesn't make what Celestia does (or negligently fails to do) correct or morally right. Her actions must stand and fall on their own merit. That is a point that so many American bronies seem to miss entirely. I used a funny example of a ficticious galactic overlord with crimes about 100x worse than King George's in terms of body count and 10x as bad in terms of sheer cruelty. I then sarcastically asked if we should go back to being a British colony. No response yet.
I'm willing to side with the show on this one, mainly because I think it makes sense given that we've seen cows and donkeys go around and interact in the free market and spend money. They buy houses (Cranky) and buying food in one instance (Mooriella). If there's examples from later seasons I am unaware of them, but those are the only two that come to mind. Help me out a bit here. In later seasons, do we see more equality between cows/donkeys and ponies? Do we see more of them in background shots, as if these sentient lifeforms are just as much a part of Equestria as the ponies are? Appleloosa pulled this one off pretty well actually. Later in the show's run we see Buffalo and Ponies co-mingling in the town, at parties, etc. Just like they're equals. That's in the spirit of friendship established in the pie fight episode of S1.
That's an example of societal development in a show which, according to some, "isn't supposed to be about worldbuilding" or "Isn't called My Little Livestock: Friendship is Magic so you wouldn't expect to see the focus on too many non-pony characters." No. It's called My Little Pony: FRIENDSHIP is magic. I would expect to see more friendships between ponies and every other race imaginable. We see Gilda and RD are friends. We see Cranky and Pinkie are friends, though I'd argue that Cranky is an exception to his species, sort of a token. Does anypony have a cow friend? Or a sheep friend? Despite all of them being apparently sentient and some of them presumably worthy of friendship? No we do not. (Unless it's in the comics).
LOL! Allow me one paragraph to show that my own views can change. Especially in light of how unrestricted Starlight is in her own use of magic; she's free to learn almost any spell imaginable as long as she doesn't use it to violate anypony else's rights, in which case she has to learn a lesson/moral. Starlight, who is basically as close to a canon version of BAS-Pumpkin as the show is ever going to get. Starlight in retrospect kind of makes the magic-based motivations of Pumpkin Cake in my own story seem rather silly. Yes, her favorite two spells (want-it-need-it and intangiblity) were banned. Banned, even though both spells when used in certain, introspective ways particular to her character, arguably helped her emotionally heal from past trauma and become a stronger young mare. But she never actually faced legal consequences for use of WINI or intangibility, because Equestria's magic control regime was actually nonexistent for most other spells besides restricted ones. Let alone ones that you could literally learn without even reading a book. How could you possibly police that? The law was in essence toothless. She really shouldn't have been mad about the magic laws, and just ignored them like all those ravers did. Or ignore them like Starlight does in the show and get away with it. But because of Pumpkin's PTSD-driven need for control, the mere notion of anypony telling her what she could or could not do was offensive to the very fiber of her being. It was based on principle, rather than practicality and just moving on with her life. She needed lots of therapy.
Wow. That's actually a realistic display of a governmental system for the MLP world. Vs. the show that has almost none of that. Starswirl's sytem wouldn't be perfect by any means, but far more preferable to a system with no checks and balances on the alicorn(s) at all.
You know, you're right. Equestria definitely has something like that, otherwise how is Flutters getting paid. At worst you could say that they are sometimes ineffective. But the troubles with wildlife mostly ended after season one and two. Maybe having more confidence and less shyness due to her friends, allowed Flutters to stand up more to certain rambunctious wildlife and be more effective at her job. Wait, there's no maybe about it. Dragonshy shows us that's exactly what happened. And Celestia directly drove that change by sending Twilight to Canterlot and having her make friends, one of whom her ideal was Fluttershy (as seen in a Flashback, Celestia is aware of Fluttershy's existence before Twilight is.) This is actually one example of where Celestia saw a problem in Equestria and made it better. Maybe unconciously, or maybe in a grandmaster chess move of genius. Either way, Celestia deserves a point for that.
I was bullied really bad in school... but it took place over the course of K-12 years. In seven seasons (however long that is) we already see the Mane Six get bullied almost every other time they are at school. None of my bullies bothered me every day, usually it would go on for a week or two until a teacher would intervene before it got to the point of constant harrassment every day for months or years. Then they'd start up again in a couple months, or another bully would take their place. Not the same bully for years who is never expelled. Or some years I was hardly bullied at all. From my own personal experience, I would still say that Equestria's school system has some room for improvement. Hardly a justification for revolt... by itself. I still leave it on the list. No one grievance was enough to indict King George, either. But for a princess whose rule is based on "Friendship," Princess Celestia sure doesn't seem to care about bullies enough in public schools to launch a federal task force against it. Maybe train the teachers on how to intervene, like my teachers did. Maybe establish strict expulsion guidelines tied to federal funding. Freaking SOMETHING. She raises funds for a school so we do know that Celestia has direct involvement with local schools when there is a problem.
I think they both should be in jail... at the very least, Flim and Flam should give back the money for a faulty product. I also think that the tonics we see are a bit more of a scam than juice which at least has some nutritional value, even if it's not as much as advertised. But I'm unfamiliar with the extent of Dr. Oz's scams.
Damn. Well, Celestia just loses the point that she gained for indirectly helping Fluttershy be better at her job. Now is SMILE disbanded in the comics, books, or show? If it's not disbanded in the show, I might be able to include them in my Starlight Glimmer story without hassle from my readers, most of whom I don't assume would've read that comic. Otherwise I would have to replace them with some other, new agency.
I just don't understand how a show with trains and other 1800's and even 1900's level of tech would be stuck in a ninth century mindset. Is this Equestria, or Saudi Arabia? And this is worse than Starswirl's group that actually had legal power alongside the alicorns and existed 1,000 years earlier. It's like Equestria went backwards.
That's not really a check on Celestia's power. That's Celestia's personally-trained student who rarely if ever stands up to Celestia. At least not like Starlight Glimmer did when she swapped hers and Luna's cutie marks. Which I would argue was entirely justified and necessary for Starlight to do, just like the show says. I don't always agree with the show's morals. Trixie in S1 was not a "boaster." That's part of her job. She told a few fibs about her accomplishments in other towns, but that's all part of the act as much as pretending to saw a pony in half would be.
I honestly wonder if Celestia wasn't based on him.
Yeah, that seems like the first, best choice. They should hold peaceful protests in Canterlot, and vote for mayors who agree with them on a need for a change in Celestia's rule. Then they can take their local change to the national level.
That seems so out of character for her. She's not a tyrant by any definitions. She's an absolute ruler, sure. But by no means brutal towards her people like Kim Jong Un. I think she'd cave in that situation. I think that in that situation, they'd still keep her around as a "ceremonial" monarch who does stuff like raise the sun (assuming she doesn't abuse it) and holds galas or whatever. Maybe she can even still help solve disputes like she did in Royal Problem. Maybe she could have a, very limited, veto over legislation due to her wisdom and many, many years of past service to Equestria in which at the very least she preserved it as a unified nation from Starswirl to the present.
But her days of being absolute, unchecked ruler would have to be over. I think we can agree on that point?
Thanks!
Part of why I was saying check out Oliver's blogs are the comments, they're on a whole 'nother level from most people. they focus on the setting.
If you're not willing to watch all the episodes, his Points of Canon summaries of Seasons 5-7 are the next best thing. It includes a list of every possible thing we can learn or infer about the setting of Equestria (history, culture, laws of magic) based on each episode.
'Questria, love it or leave it! Are you siding with the Griffons Carts? They hate us because of our Friendships. orig03.deviantart.net/6f1a/f/2014/184/f/e/happy_4th_of_july_by_bakki-d7p1eol.jpg
I did notice this, and it bugged me. Not because they want to live under a tyrannical horse with incipient dementia, that's fine, but that they used Doylist answers instead of Watsonian. A real defense of the system should be set within the show, not "don't complain about the government because it's meant to be a show for little girls."
These days......
We see plenty of examples of donkeys being treated as equals. Slice of Life has all 4 Princesses attend a donkey wedding. What we haven't seen more of since season 2 really, is cows and sheep. They've basically disappeared, except the S5 finale where we see sheep being sheared to support Equestria's total war against Sombra (you should probably watch the S5 finale, lots of fodder for this discussion). So I agree donkeys and other non-ponies have equal rights, but specifically cows and sheep seem second-class citizens at best.
Gilda and Rainbow Dash are friends again, and Pinkie becomes the official ambassador to the Yaks. But no cow or sheep friends.
I wonder if its like the laws against mind control and other things are on the books, but Celestia commutes/pardons like 99% of sentences as long as you show remorse? Every time a villain is forgiven, they first have to act sorry. (Except Discord, but turns out if he doesn't cause lots of chaos he will die, so he kind of gets a pass).
I could totally see Pumpkin practicing dark magic like basically every other unicorn on the show ever, and when its time for her pardon she refuses to say she was sorry, so she gets sent to jail.
Well, the books were basically a big canon dump, so I think they were meant for an older audience. I conjecture that Starswirl thought the 3 tribes would continue running their respective tribes and the alicorns would take Starswirl's place as tie-breaking leaders and defenders against major threats. But after Nightmare Moon, Celestia (who is incredibly popular) convinced the tribes not to empower new tribal leaders and just leave everything to her.
Fluttershy is shown gradually becoming more assertive, until we have a S7 episode that is actually terrible because Fluttershy is assertive and right from the beginning, so there is zero real conflict (she builds an outdoor animal shelter).
Actually, I think you'll get a kick out of it. Fluttershy sends every mildly ill wild animal to the vet, who apparently treats them for free (animals have socialized medicine, but not farmers in Equestria). The vet takes really good care of them, so the animals never leave, even when they are perfectly well. When the vet complains about this to Fluttershy, she reveals that she has wanted to build a fancy animal shelter for years, and now she finally has the perfect reason, due to a situation she created! The rest of the episode is about her getting others to help build it. Based on that description, doesn't Fluttershy sound like a government bureaucrat to you?
I was also bullied in school, especially middle school, to the point that I ended up eating lunch in the library most of the time. Maybe its that girls bullying is different and snide remarks are more cutting to them, but compared to the stuff Babs Seed gets up to, Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon are nothing.
But they actually show the ingredients for the tonic, it's just ground-up beets and apples. Isn't that fairly healthy juice? Heck, they don't even put any sugar in it like real juice.
Show. Here's the show quote:
"Sweetie Drops: My name isn't Bon Bon. It's "Special Agent Sweetie Drops". I work for a super-secret anti-monster agency in Canterlot, or at least I did until the bugbear went missing from Tartarus a few years back.
Lyra Heartstrings: What are you talking about?
Sweetie Drops: When it escaped, we had to shutter the whole agency. Every last shred of evidence of the organization's existence was destroyed. Celestia demanded complete deniability. "
I don't think democracy is obvious unless you have a whole series of rulers that are tyrannical, one after the other. When you have this fairly beloved if ineffective ruler, then you petition her for stuff, but I think for most ponies, overthrowing Celestia would be like disowning your mother.
Agreed.
They've given Trixie so much good characterization over the last two seasons!
It does. but now I'm worried about Luna being offended on Celestia's behalf and doing something rash.
This is a well thought criticism of things the series need to address, even though people seem to describe equestria as either an idillic paradise where magic prevails and others thing equestria is a miserable wretched hive that is only sugary on the outside your arguments seem to indicate that while equestria isnt exactly a crapsaccharine world there's still so much to do
4593313
I think it is unintentional. Even though Twilight is basically Spike's mother, she's been raising him alone since she was like 11. I think he picked up the habit of feeding and taking care of her so Twilight wouldn't starve, and volunteered to help her with her research so Spike could spend more time with Twilight.
The one time Spike seriously complained and tried to run away, it was because Twilight had lessened his workload and given it to an owl, after all.
4593268
4592988
I got my own theory of how the government of Equestria works. While the Kingdom of Equestria is clearly is monarchy, it doesn't mean that its cities are. To me, I think the cities act independent of each other while the actual government has limited power over those cities and towns to the point that theses cities and towns have their own mini government, policies, healthcare, laws, culture, ect. Similar to the Articles of Confederation, though granted if you know what were the Articles or watched these videos (especially the bottom).
The Articles of Confederation was a failure. But maybe it could work in MLP.
.
I think that somewhere between the events of Luna's banishment and her return, something similar to the Articles was implemented. By my guess, the original order of government in Equestria was just a regular monarchy except with a immortal as their leader, though of course over the centuries the idea of one leader ruling all began to decline, so I think that instead of following the old ways of ruling, Celestia instead ratifies a new constitution that would satisfy the citizens of Equestria by having their own cities and towns govern themselves as long as they still see the Kingdom of Equestria as the legitimate government and that they are required to pay taxes to the kingdom. With this system, problems like racial discrimination against farm animals would no longer be Celestia's problem, but the cities and towns instead.
Now in the real world, this way of collecting taxes failed in the Articles was because states did not view the congress as their government since it was pretty new at the time, but in MLP Celestia was already the ruler of Equestria before and well respected because of her motherly nature, and so the cities and towns decided to follow these requirements. With this, cities and towns now could elect their own officials in offices and decide on their own health care and social aid, how much taxes are, what political view points the city/town should be, and other things. So I think this also explains why Equestria has a great economy. If you look at the show, you'll realize that there haven't been any poverty which must mean that Equestria has a great or at least a stable economy. The most likely reason is the Tax system, since the cities and towns do send the tax money they collect from their city and to the Kingdom of Equestria. The tax money is separated into two groups, the treasuring money, and the finance money. The Kingdom use the finance money by disputing it to other cities and towns for they could support their own policies. Like let say, that Manehatten got a lot of tax money back from the kingdom, and if Manehatten was Democratic it could finance a universal healthcare, or if its Republican it would have a public-private healthcare and use the money for its other policies like supporting schools or other things. The only policy that the Kingdom would be responsible would be the public train system which they themselves pay for with the tax money for an affordable ride from city to city. So the issue with Granny's operation probably isn't because that Celestia has a one faulty healthcare system, but more like Mayor Mare is just a republicancf.chucklesnetwork.com/items/5/2/9/8/9/original/oh-so-youre-a-republican-tell-me-more-about-how-people-who-cant.jpg
As for the treasure money, its used for emergency purposes like a natural disaster hits a city or town and so money from the treasury is sent to the city or town to rebuild it self. Evidence of this is the episode of Swarm of the Century that the parasprites destroyed most of the town, though by the next few episodes Ponyville was brand new. I think when something happens that causes sever damage, the city or town has a choice to send a request for a some amount of money to rebuild. My guess that in The Last Roundup, when Mayor Mare got news of Applejack's loss, she must of at that point had no choice but to send a request for money to rebuild town hall, which was also rebuild by next episode. With the treasury, the Kingdom would also not have to worry about diverting finance money from other cities in order to help one. Think of the Kingdom of Equestria as a bank, people send money to the bank and the bank sends sends it to other people while those other people send money to the bank back to pay others, the cycle goes on. Basically the kingdom's main duty is to collect and transfer money to slightly independent cities and towns, and foreign affairs. And in case that a city decides to be completely independent, the Kingdom would allow it but would say that because that it is now its own country, it would not get any financial support any more and so discourage the notion of complete self independent. Now the military, Equestria just doesn't care about its military. Think about, as far as we know, the thousands of years since Luna's banishment, their has never been a major war, maybe a few swift conflicts (Over the Barrel) that the cities or towns could take on their own, other than that, otter peace. So ask, why have a military if you are at peace? My theory is that because of this millennia of peace, ponies see that having a strong military is just a waste of money that could be used for better needs. Its like buying a gun, why would you want to buy a .44 magnum handgun for home protection while you can just by a .22 handgun? So while Equestria does have a military, it doesn't have a large military since most of that money is being paid for more important matters of the nation. So citizens of Equestria mind set is that a big military would cause more harm than good for their nation and so just keeps it small.
As for Celestia, her job would be what we see her in the show, talking to representatives from cities, towns, and other nations and if a crisis comes up, she deals with it like again in Swarm of the Century where she help the infestation in Fillydelphia.
Now of course, this system isn't perfect, if something major would happen to this system it could potentially fall apart. And that's probably one of its big defense from a revolution. Like let's say an army of ponies did got fed up with Celestia and the monarchy government and so managed to overthrow both, great! Well no, because like in most rebellions, they never think of the out come. If something happens to the Kingdom, then the money that is circulates in it, would stop and thous cities and towns wouldn't get any money and thous cause caos around Equestria since their main income for their policies just disappeared. Even if this new government tries to keep the money system flowing, they couldn't really try to get these cities to pay up their taxes since some cities wouldn't see this new gov. as the new and this might even cause cities to do drastic measures of making themselves being independent with the risk of this new gov. trying to take away their privileges. This could cause a civil war with the new gov. and the cities and towns that just loss their main income.
Though the main reason why a revolution would most likely never happen is that because of this system, the citizens of Equestria are content or just fine how things are in the country and so have no real reason to rebel against their motherly ruler.
So that's me theory of what is the current state of Equestria. What do you think?
4608852
The Articles is an interesting theory, but I think that it would have to have been implemented before NMM's return. Ponyville clearly has a mayor before then, and she clearly has at least some power.
No poverty? Did you see Hollow Shades? The place is a dump. Same with Appleloosa, really.
As for healthcare it could also be that hip replacement is simply not covered under an otherwise "universal" system. Hip replacements are not considered to be life-saving surgery. People in the UK often wait for years for non-essential, quality of life surgeries under the NHS. Republicans aren't uncaring assholes who want folks to die. We just see where other countries have failed, and we want to succeed with a healthcare system that is affordable to everyone AND covers things quickly.
No military because no war falls flat as a theory. The mane six have been friends for seven seasons now. Assume that each season is a year, and there have been about five instances where a large Equestrian military would've come in handy. Are we to also assume, though, that there were no similar threats before the Mane Six got together? Wow. Talk about a run of good luck. Sorry but you can't have luck or reliance on seven or eight powerful ponies be your national security strategy. It works in the show... BARELY. We see them almost lose in almost every encounter. Really if Spike had missed the Crystal Heart, then Equestria would've had to face off against Sombra's army. It wasn't called the Crystal Empire for no reason. Sombra probably conquered stuff all the time.
4609503
That what I said in the comment that some where in those 1,000 years that this article would be implemented.
Just because we never seen Hollow Shades and only using the map as reference doesn't mean its poverty. As for Appleloosa, it gets a fair bit of money from its rodeos and other attractions, just because its a western themed town doesn't mean its poor, if you see, the citizens there are quite happy and content with living in the small town. The only town I do consider is at the boarder line of poverty would be Starlight's Town since it wasn't part of the financial system before being discovered. While there is probably a few places with poverty, we haven't seen any so far in the show, and so in conclusion, a low poverty rate.
I don't know if you took that seriously or not, but in case you did. The republican meme picture, it was a joke, hence why I put a trolestia emoji at the end.
You know, this made me think about this a bit, and maybe that the reason the military is small because it is only used during actual war time. Like I still think that citizens mind set is that having a big military in peace time is a waste, but this changes when an actual war starts. Like think of it like giving someone a glass of water, if a child wants some water you give them a little glass of water, but when a grown person comes, you give them a big glass of water. Like in the American revolutions, Continental Congress created the Continental Army for the eventual British invasion and after the war the CA was dispanded. Evidence of this is actually in the episode Cutie Re-mark where Equestria had to fight Sombra's Empire. So let's go back to your scenario where if Spike misses the Crystal Heart, I think it would go the same route like the AU in Cutie Re-mark. Spike misses, and the mains six and others come back to bring news of their failure, in response, Celestia has no choice but to announce to the citizens of each city and town that Equestria is now at war with Sombra who is currently building up his army with the mind controlled crystal ponies. Hearing this and the potential consequences of Equestria being invaded by a legitimate enemy, citizens now begin to support for a large military to fight Sombra's growing army and so the cities and towns agree to have a large amount of financial money to the military and build it up to fight. After a few years, Equestria someone eventually wins and after the war the financial money is then diverted back to normal circulation and keep the military small again, or at least a bit bigger than before since cities and towns now go back to now having the financial money to pay for their own policies. Now let's go back to the current canon of the show, yes Equestria had five instances in where a enemy(s) tried to takeover, but they were defeated. Now you said a large military would be useful, maybe, but to me it wouldn't of changed anything, mostly because these instance were resolved in less than a day or two and some were a complete surprise to almost everyone. Other than Celestia herself, no knew that Nightmare Moon would be there, Discord would just turn any soldier into a plastic army soldier, the Changelings manage to sneak their way through Equestria and all the way to the capital till the last second when it was time to strike, Tirek also played it cool and only really started gathering magic when Discord allied with him, and the Changlings again managed to infiltrate Equestria again by replacing everyone. In these instances, even a large military wouldn't have time to mobilize, especially when the Changelings infiltrated Equestria twice. The most common thing about these instances would be that they only lasted a day or two and were defeated by a few ponies, in fact these instances probably even support the notion of a large military would be a waste in peace time. Like imagine a couple of ponies talking to each other and one brings up if they should build up their military because of one of these instance, but the others disagree since that despite how powerful these enemies were, they were defeated quickly and only be a few ponies, and so why have a large military to fight these enemies if it would take a small group of ponies to defeat them in less than a day, and so because of this view point their mind set stays. Small military during peace time, big military when war starts.
So what do you think?
4609833
There was some sort of town that they went to deliver applesauce or something to. I forget the name of the town but there were like, some cajun ponies there? Dunno, that town seemed like a dump to me. Appleloosa you have a point on, so I guess that isn't a legit example. You are correct that poverty is very rare in Equestria just like it is rare in First World countries in real life. Just using it as an example though.
I understand that you were joking about healthcare. I had to respond just to be on the record about healthcare, sorry
I stand by my original comments. Yes, a few ponies defeated all those enemies. But that is not a legitimate strategy. True, Celestia could recruit an army from volunteers or from a draft. That does not negate the need for a standing army which is bigger than what we see. It doesn't have to be big, but just bigger than the laughable joke that we see... only the pegasus guards? What about unicorn mages? Powerful Rocktorates like Maud Pie who can crush anything, cause earthquakes with their hooves? We don't see any.
4609905
Will you incorporate my theory in your next story or future story? You did say it was plausible. In fact, maybe in the story as a side plot, some ponies are advocating for a permanent standing military while most of the cities and towns oppose any standing military since they would be afraid that a standing military might decease there financial money going to them.
4691025
My next story will have elements of military conflict in it, so yes I will incorporate your idea that they don't currently have a standing army because there is no need for one that the public or the princesses see.
4691170
Even the articles theory? I really wish you will also use that as Equestria's government works in the story.
4691215
The articles idea I like, but I am not sure if I will be able to incorporate it into the story or not. I will sure try, though!