Vague Worldbuildy Things · 4:43pm Jul 18th, 2016
On Hunting Season, Scourge of Lightning asked a couple of questions about burliness that have branched off into some worldbuildy aspects, and more importantly, is getting really long. I'm also copying the conversation about Bigness just to make it easier to reference at the bottom. If you're really interested in the silly world in my head, there's some aspects here, though the post gets long for archival reasons. I'll have a second one up if you have questions about worldbuilding in just a sec.
Be warned, extremely minor spoilers and way too much thought into a pornverse ahead. And severe abuse of parens and other poor, mistreated punctuation.
Scourge asked:
>> Troublesome Beast So would Celestia when flexed be about as bulky as the Venom picture I posted earlier?
Oooh, many thanks for the specific feats of strength and classification on how everyone stands, I love that kind of thing. Four things I wanna ask, you bring up Twilight breaking kaiju in half. What kind of kaiju are we talking here, just a standard giant dragon or the kind of kaiju that swings other kaiju over the horizon?
The second, in an earlier chapter, Twilight mentioned breaking an island with a punch. Did that mean splitting the island into chunks with a single punch, sinking the island), or just shattering the whole thing?
The third, you mentioned how Chrysalis, Discord, and Nightmare Moon did, how did Sombra do? Was he just the Sauron type to never actually fight himself and only manipulated things through fear and dark magic? For that matter, did Starlight Glimmer just get her ass handed to her when she fought Twilight here or what?
In reverse order:
1) Sombra was an immensely powerful being of spiritual corruption and corrosion. Even before being defeated and banished the first time, Sombra was a sufficient threat that it required both Astrals to intervene safely, and Luna wasn't very happy about leaving it up to Twilight, even as just a test. I have some temptations and ambivalencies in the matter of Sombra so I'm not going to go into much detail there, save that the broad strokes of the episode went down pretty much the same. Think Lord of the Rings version vs. the Hobbit, but alas, without so much as a percent of JRR Tolkien's intricacies and subtlety. ... or a percent of a percent of a percent of a percent of the quality.
I digress, though. This world's version of Starlight Glimmer is a 7'8" tall hyper futa unicorn and without the two ascensions in play, would have stood in the same category as Twilight Sparkle and Sunset Shimmer when you count raw magical heft (or about as powerful as Hopper is likely to be for a few centuries. My mental categorization for how they approached magic, and honestly I think this matches the show, are computer scientist (Twilight), computer engineer (Sunset), and cracker (Starlight, whose current husband is a much better theoretician even if he doesn't have hir heft).
They've all had to change; Twilight's had to become more spontaneous and build practical applications; Sunset is busily trying to figure out the difference between universal laws of thaumaturgy and local reality constraints-- think the spectrum flowing from Galileo's Pisa experiment (Rainbow Rocks level, basically), our later understanding of gravity and mass, then Einstein, then modern physics where we're still not 100% sure of what gravitational force/gravity really is and then apply that to a vast field-- while dealing with cyberpunk-era megacorporations.
As another aside, the EqG universe is basically Pony Shadowrun.
Anyway, Starlight had been a strategist and a tactician (and a logistics expert on a minor level, running even a small town is... educational there), and she was much more skilled at spontaneity in the first place. Shi was also pretty crazy at the time. Shi kept Twilight on her toes, again, pretty much like the ep.
These days, Starlight is Twilight's archmage, the archmage of all things magic, as opposed to Derpy and Necromancy or Trixie and Illusions. I guess a nonspoilery one there is Shining Armor is the archmage of Abjuration. Yes, I did steal the major schools from D20 and Pathfinder, rather than my beloved GURPS, for simplicity. And because Twilight's Everything (not generalist, more like specialist in each schools) plus Sisters plus Cadance plus the other Mane Cast perfectly matched the number of schools. :)
Shi's also happily married to Sunburst (also a hyper), despite the fact that their jobs are in two different parts of the world. When you're better at Conjuration than Pinkie's archmage (Cheese Sandwich), literally summoning your husband or (more often, since he's still Flurry Heart's Crystaller) teleporting to him at night is trivial.
2) Twilight completely shattered the invasive island in question in a single punch, again, using whatever it is that makes super-strength work to lift big things as well as just output power. And then she promptly hit something like a kiloSmarty Pants level of panic trying to deal with the tsunamis she'd set off and the potential marine environmental disaster. Thankfully, Celestia woke up Luna and came to help herself, mainly with finding and transmuting/purifying bits of corrupted island.
After all, when it comes to influencing the ocean, Luna wins all the tidal matches.
I have no regrets.
3) See answer #2 for the questions of what Twilight can do to kaiju at the blotting out the sky stage.
4) No, because again, he looks like he's got super-cancer rather than super muscles. :) Maybe on bulk, I guess, but she still looks like she has muscles and not boils. :)
Speaking of bulk, here's the conversation that led up to that:
Out of sheer curiosity, do you have any visual that would demonstrate the proportions in question here? I can never tell if they have the built of this guy
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/asuraswrath/images/e/e3/4c8dae91cd441b4ba83103f9e11bd0b8.png/revision/latest?cb=20120525173920
Or anything ranging up to this level
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43563/1272703-gargan2.jpg
Doesn't have to be a pony, just any kind of reference for how they are shaped would be cool.
>> ScourgeofLightning Sadly, no. Not having the spare money for a commission unless someone has an amazon wishlist I can buy things off of, but... I'll see if I can find a good ref. Not the venom one, but bigger (even proportionally) than mister tats there. Hopper's body is shaped to fit-- so it's not tiny head and hands and feet with uber limbs and torso. He is _big_ though; with huge expansion potential; his peak on the bicep would be nearly twice that of the world record if he was 6' tall; Twilight's, for reference, would be about 1.5 times the world record, a little under. The expansion side of things means that it doesn't pop up as much as you might expect, and it is for obvious reasons extremely dense tissue. I'll look around for something I think would roughly fit though.
>> Troublesome Beast
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/36/Goku_vs._Broly_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20111214191113
What about these proportions, do they fit? Or these?
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/7/7b/DBZ_Bojack_ultimate_attack.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20150928045955
Also, thanks for replying
>> ScourgeofLightning #1 there isn't too far off. Just, like WBH below, not cuddly enough, and a bit undefined (art style, honestly).
So, going to be honest, most of my picture-trawling time is spent looking at extreme FMG/Herm MG stuff and then imagining a bigger, buffer male coming in. Hopper has a long lineage in my fantasies, though he's much nicer than the ones from the darker parts of my psyche. As a result, I mostly know artists who do female muscles. One of my friends with an interest in the male muscle form, Harmor, did me a solid and found some stuff for me. Unfortunately, most of it was cough not appropriate, but found a few things! I'm leaving some of these as just paste links to be careful, but the best is one I should have gotten from the beginning, of course.
World Breaker/Green Scar Hulk.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111273739/5025224-3842342-3504729-1033299066-hulk1.jpg
But much more cuddly, and yet with better muscle definition. These guys are close, but a little skinny in the shoulders/below the waist:
http://d.facdn.net/art/kyuuhari/1261477305/1261477305.kyuuhari_santa_panja.jpg
http://d.facdn.net/art/cursedmarked/1363715820/1363715820.cursedmarked_foxmuscl6e.jpg
As a side note, that activity is usually followed up by feeling guilty since I'm about 95% sure that's the opposite of the artists' intentions, but. *sighs*
>> Troublesome Beast The links ya posted in the comments didn't work, but I get the picture, I think going off of WB Hulk. So, that's the proportions down, but what about raw size? Is he closer to this(guy on the left arm being a kid and the one on the right being an adult)
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110609024509/dragonball/images/a/ae/Broly_Vs_Trunks_and_Gohan.jpg
Or this?(Guy getting hugged being an adult)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112549/3063644-7632686440-20090.jpg
(same character, but the scale varies between shots. I would use WBH for this, but I'm not sure he has any good scale shots. Also, I know that guilty feeling as well, lol)
>> ScourgeofLightning At the moment, Hopper's entering his second puberty as a hyper/alicorn. He's 9' tall and around WB hulk-shoulder width, so a bit taller than... Broly there, I think the name is? When he flexes, he gets an 80" circumference bicep. Other muscles similarly tend to expand to about the same, but they're lighter at rest than that would seem to imply. Not by much, though.
>> Troublesome Beast Okay, cool. Any references for Twilight or Celestia in bulk?
>> ScourgeofLightning To put it another way, Twilight is _definitely_ your better class of, say, Gideon, Jaeh, or DocWolph mega-amazon. She calls him her wall of coltfriend in... a later chapter, I believe-- for a reason.
Edit: Actually, some of Jaeh's stuff pretty much hits the sweet spot along the continuum.
Which is to say, from Twilight all the way up to Celestia, especially considering Jaeh's Das Butt and other curves that he puts onto his megamuscled ladies. :)
>> ScourgeofLightning Heh, just saw this. For Twilight, 8' tall, 60" biceps, as I said in the last post-- your better class of hyperzon, not looking like her muscles will make her snap in half from axial strain but definitely ripped.
Celestia is bigger than Hopper. Still not in the "Why do we have an akira clone stuffed in a onesie" territory, of course, but if she was the same height as Hopper, she'd have 16% larger biceps, and her legs especially are more like 20-30% larger and more muscular. As it is, she's 10'8" and has 110" peaks; when she flexes, you could fit a normal sized stallion in there, if, you know, it wasn't for all that muscle. She is the single strongest entity on Epona or in any of the near parasite dimensions. For now. Twilight's killed Kaiju with her thighs; if she can get an angle, the same thing that lets a super-strong meta lift, say, a building... or a mountain... without just ripping through part of it lets her snap them in half.
Celestia can toy with Twilight like she was a little doll. Luna used to be in her weight class, but then a thousand years of hauling double duty... She can be beaten, especially under ideal conditions for an opponent and when there are too many of her precious little ponies around to cut loose (Chrysalis is a demon lord in this verse; she was supercharged during the wedding as per the episode). Similarly, the Nightmare Entity really buffed Luna, and Discord just went for a side run that bypassed the entire concept of power versus power.
Now, there's two caveats to that. First, Twi and Celestia have a _lot_ of curvy, perky padding on that. Twi is a U-cup; Celestia is far past double-Z; I don't recall whether I called it ZZZZ or left it up for grabs mentally). She also has some very, very nice balance between perk and natural sag there that has a lot of jiggle. They similarly have a _huge_ amount of hip (and that's just bone structure) and junk in the trunk. Oh, lord, the junk in those trunks. Twi has a lot of curve on her thighs; Celestia has a lot of curve everywhere. If you looked at her and were somehow immune to the divine will of a goddess of perfection doing her best to emphasize the sweet motherly part of her nature (which, to be fair, is the majority anyway), you might recognize she was well-muscled, but the real definition (unlike Hopper and Luna, who are hardbodies) only shows up when she flexes. Twi is much more well-defined, especially on the non-boob parts of her torso, arms, back, shoulders, that sort of thing, and her calves. And it doesn't take much to show those off.
This also doesn't tell you how flat out dangerous they are; strength alone is not enough, as they say. Luna is the Warmistress for a good reason. If she and Celestia really fought, to the death, rather than the conquest, with full access to their powers, they'd probably both die, and even if Celly could give the High Princess job to someone else (the others would yell NO), Luna would still be the better war leader. The Nightmare couldn't handle Luna's skills and more than a few of her talents; it just pumped up what it could and threw magic at the rest. Luna is also unafraid of her divinity, unlike Celestia, who avoids it other than to protect her ponies from spiritual threats and give them a comfortable afterlife.
Even after Hopper is vastly stronger than even Celestia, Luna will still be much more dangerous. Twilight, similarly, will be more dangerous than Hopper that point, as will Celestia, because of their magic and other preternatural abilities than "being very strong and tough." Hopper's unlight is a potential wildcard, but for an enemy who understands it or at least the counters, it won't help as much.
There's reasons that even millennia later, his job on the battlefield will be "do what Luna tells you; failing Luna, what Twilight tells you, failing Twilight, what AJ tells you..." Round about Fluttershy it turns to "protect her and let her work," but. He's a champion, a bodyguard, a thug; other than that, he will be a very happy stay at home husband and raise the kids.
Two things:
My only question is, if the alicorns embody the two forms and three tribes, why not both genders as well?
Goodness gracious me! If you keep pushing my buttons like this, I'll have to change my name to Keyboard!
4099552 Because this is me writing the porn (and adventure) I want to read that doesn't really exist out there, and futa are peripheral to that, if included, basically. Don't worry; futa will definitely be involved. Twi and Luna are spending a lot of time getting Hopper up to their bare minimum standards before they start letting him screw or top their subs (or former subs, barring the Elements, in Twi's case; she had a two year trip and didn't want to leave ponies lonely). He will definitely end up doing all sorts of lovely things to futa as well, though at the moment, the only non-alicorn sub I've written him with is a normal/full mare Coco:
Though Rarity once she puts on her magical strapon to do one of her femboi subs in an effort to
entice Hopper to fuck her until she has more cum than pony in herdemonstrate to Hopper how to be a more sensuous dom might count, after all:(I have several hundred thousand unedited words of this garbage, but you seem to like previews, so)
Oh, and re: the house-husbanding? That's all he basically wants. He's not a very ambitious pony in anything other than whom he wishes to top and love and snuggle and make very, very stuffed. He will be entirely content to thug for the mares when they need him, boink them silly when they have a moment, and chase after their foals (though none of the Alicorns are precisely unparental, either. Barb will probably mostly grouch at even her children until they're teenagerish, I suspect, though.
He will let their foals crawl all over him, and yet keep them in line and learning. He's an extremely physically affectionate stallion, not merely in the sexual sense. Luna didn't have to do too much to convince him that cuddling was its own kind of magic for good reasons. He's smart enough to keep up in conversation with Twilight and the others, though not to really debate with or equal; he asks the right questions and understands the answers enough to make a good conversationalist. It means he'll be a good supplementary tutor for the foals, too.
4099600
Actually, I'm mostly just pleasantly surprised that one of my top kinks showed up at all! Didn't think you were going that way, what with Flash Sentry/Flare Warden.
I can see myself in Hopper's shoes on this subject.
4099629 Flare's a different case. Gender dysphoria still occurs, and unfortunately, there are some very ugly subcurrents that Celly and her personal servants are still trying to deal with. Futa are even rarer than hypers, about 10% of the population, and genetics is not an advanced science here, yet alone genetic thaumatology. They're also a completely separate third sex, not a midpoint between male and female (and lord, does that make biology of sex complicated). Presumably if the option to become futa was available, Flare would probably have taken it; honestly, if futa spells didn't result in infertile spunk, she'd just go full female now.
In a few years, possibly a decade or two, depending on how things go with communication with Sunset Shimmer, artificial insemination may be a possibility, and at that point, Flare will transition fully, and happily.