On Mormons and Missionaries and Ponies · 8:05am Jan 29th, 2012
In my most recent chapter of The Conversion Bureau: The 800 Year Promise, I included a reference to a wonderful ongoing story called The Book Of Friendship by BillyColt. You can read it here on FimFiction, and I do recommend it. The basic premise of the story is a pair of ambiguously gay Equestrian missionaries - teaching the lessons of the magic of friendship as recorded by Twilight Sparkle - and the endless series of horrors they endure. It's partly based on a stage play called 'The Book Of Mormon' (also a movie), and you can see the point here; the two missionaries are really the Equestrian equivalent of Mormon missionaries.
This was a fun tip of the hat for me to do, because my characters stop briefly in 'Ponytello'. Ponytello is my take on a real town, Pocatello Idaho, and in the comments, I referred to the experience I had there. This caused some ire, and I wanted to address this more clearly, so that I do not cause trouble or hurt anyone who reads my stories.
So, first up, I do not hate Mormons. Nor do I hate Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims or Jains. I don't hate any group; frankly hate is too much work, and it only causes me pain to do it - and hate never solves anything. Hate is private, internal, and self-destructive.
But, my -and my family's - experiences in Pocatello were real, and I want to explain them more clearly. Understanding bridges all gaps, after all.
My family moved to Pocatello Idaho some twenty-five years ago. We went there because one of my spouses, Sandi, is a radio engineer, and she had the chance to work at a station there. We were sick of the Bay Area traffic, and she thought we could live in a big house and eat well, and have a garden and all sorts of things out in such a small city. We were young and ignorant of the world, what could possibly be wrong with moving anywhere in the United States?
Says the four-person polyamory of bisexual/lesbians, transsexuals and pagans. And a programmer. Oops.
Long story short, we found ourselves in the Idaho equivalent of a Small Southern Town As Depicted In A Scary Tale Of Racism. Only for real.
Pocatello had an almost entirely Mormon population, and they were hardcore. Here's the deal, and I need to digress a bit on Mormon mythology, and how it differs from other forms of Christian mythology.
Mormons believe that the United States was once the home of an advanced white -as in white supremacist white- skinned civilization, that came from the Garden Of Eden, located in the American South (Don't ask). Now this superior White people was wiped out in an act of betrayal by a savage brown-skinned people, brown because they bore the 'Mark Of Cain'. Being brown meant they ALL were treacherous. By birth, you see.
Now those brown skinned types are to Mormons the ancestors of all native Americans - all Indian tribes. So, within their theology, dark skin means spiritual badness, and American Indians are The Greatest Betrayers Of All.
One of my spouses, Eldenath, is Navajo. I think you can guess what happened to her.
Pocatello is situated right next to two Indian reservations, the Shoshone and Bannock. These were the original inhabitants, and they were HATED by the townspeople. Walk into any store, any business, and you could have them tell you, to your face, that they would never hire one of those degraded 'red niggers'. Any business. 98% Mormon town, remember?
Eldenath tried for months to get a job; she was vastly overqualified, she'd get called in with an immediate offer of employment, and as soon as they saw her beautiful, cinnamon-colored face - it was LEAVE. NOW. Sometimes they would just tell her the job was filled... five minutes after the phone call... other times they would politely explain how a betrayer of Nephi - the 'Nephites' were the super-white super-race - would never work in any business in any part of Pocatello.
In all of my life, I had never encountered such religious racism. Now I am white as flour and twice as bland, so I admit to being clueless and overprivileged. Elde had told me about kids teasing her, calling her 'squaw' when she was a child, but... it hadn't hit me as being as serious as she made out. I mean, she grew up in San Francisco, how bad could the teasing be? Hey - I already admitted my cluelessness, OK?
Pocatello woke me up, fast.
Eldenath was nearly broken by the experience; she would come home crying and grew more depressed every day. She is a fighter though, and kept applying for jobs, week after week, with always the same result as I have described it.
We also saw two businesses - one my second-favorite restaurant there - run out of town because the owner failed to convert to Mormonism within a reasonable time. He was informed that nobody would eat at his restaurant until he did; and that meant that soon, we were his only customers. At all. Apparently the elders convened a meeting to put the pressure on. Wow.
After month five, we just told Eldenath to stop looking for work altogether. She quietly withered in her room, but it was better than the constant abuse about her race being the destroyer of the Nephites. Fuck.
After eight months we had to get out. We had been trying for some time, only then did Sandi find work in Los Angeles at KFWB News Radio. That made it possible to leave.
But it was sad - we had such a splendid big house, and Eldenath had worked so hard making a vast garden there. She has never had the heart to garden since; she has told me that Pocatello, losing that garden, just broke something in her. The whole experience broke something in her.
So, the question is, do I hate Mormons? No, of course not, that would be stupid. Hate just hurts me, it certainly doesn't change anything.
Besides, Mormons aren't the only religion that opposes everything I like, love or value; Catholicism, Islam, Fundamentalist ANYTHING all fight constantly to destroy what I value and what I think is fair and right: true equality and acceptance (not merely toleration) for all genders and forms of gender expression, all relationships straight or gay or lesbian, science above mythology, reason above belief, freedom of choice in marriage, reproduction, biology, physiology and self-determination.
All religion believes ridiculous things; and most have some form of hate woven in as part of their arbitrary laws and rules; what can I say?
I like any person who will love first, and worry about scripture later, and with a big willingness to chose love over scripture. I don't care what religion you are, as long as, when it tells you to hate, or reject, or despise, or torment, or punish, you choose to say - hey, that's crap.
But, honestly, if you are the sort that thinks we can't be friends because your religion tells you that I am evil because of some bizarre thing written before Man even knew about quantum mechanics or electricity, then... you are absolutely correct. We can't be friends, because you chose old world stupid over seeing with your own eyes in the here-now.
I don't hate a person who does that. But they have made themselves the enemy of kindness, and compassion, and love, and if I have any religion, it is purely those three things, with no other text or ritual added.
If you can be a good person, and be kind to other people, I don't care whether you believe in Cosmic Space Jesus and His Amazing Gold Tablets (collect them all and win a free godhood and your own planet!), or Regular Ground Jesus and his Wooden Carrying Rack (would this be spicy versus plain, here?), or if you believe in Mama Goddess, or 'Ol Imageless Allah, or even Mungu Bungu, God of The Jungle. I just don't care.
All mythologies are the same in my eyes; Santa Claus for adults, and hey, who doesn't like presents, right?
But if Sky Santa really is watching, please, please, please, remember to be Good.
Good, before Right.
That's all I ask.
I approve of this post entirely Chat, not much I could really add that you haven't already said
Rarely does one word fulfil the extent of how much I agree with above than "THIS".
I had a whole spiel I just tried to write, but rather than cause a textual shit-flinging match I deleted it. Suffice to say, claiming it doesn't happen because of the tenets of a belief system is living life within a bubble of ignorance wherein the believer (and I am personally glad of this part) is literally saying "I don't think that's right" - even if they express it through "my religion wouldn't condone that", which is often sadly not the case.
Yes, that just about sums it up for me as well. Really, so much could be solved with one simple statement; 'and it harm none, do what thou wilt' - the problem being, of course, that there is no universal perception of 'harm'. (sigh)
Anyways, thank you for continuing to write about the complex issues, the 'hot button' topics... the things that challenge the assumptions of the reader.
I look at the comments on your stories Chatoyance; the page long dissertations of the human condition, the impassioned posts about how 'souls' are conceptualized, the way readers become attached to characters and boldly defend them to the bloody literary death - and it makes me utter, once again, 'this is fanfic?'
Other stories here get thousands of 'cool story bro' (somehow improperly spelled, of course)... While your comment sections could probably power a thesis on the power of myth. And I really want to thank you for that.
And while we're over here on the sidelines for a moment, sharing a conceptual 'cuppa' before wading back into the fray, thank you as well Midnight.
I certainly meant no affront to you - you were merely the latest post in the chain and therefore got your button pushed, per se. I spent the evening truly worried that I would overly offend someone, as theology is won't to do, but you rolled right along and counterpointed the ridiculous beautifully.
Theology is another of my hobbies, and I find my rather 'in the audience' viewpoint to cause quite a stir on the subject so I rarely let that genie out of the proverbial bottle. But I also thought that perhaps, given the deep-think nature of the commentators on Chatoyance's work, that we could collectively halt the rising tide of "Brand-X Religion Sucks!" by demonstrating that the entire concept - independent of the flavoring used - is silly and therefore moot.
Religious poo-flinging doth occur with frightening ease, but I think we might have applied enough theological squeaky-nose to the problem to demonstrate, evenly, that taking a stand with this group is tantamount to proclaiming Superman could kick Batman's ass.
It's stuff like this that makes me afraid to share my religion - even though one of the most important commandments of it is 'Love your neighbor as yourself', and I take this to heart.
The one thing I support from religion as an atheist is the Golden Rule: don't be a dick to people if you don't want them to be dicks to you. My stance on spirituality and religion is for it to be a personal issue, not something you go around flaunting or forcing on other people. This is why I actually hate both fundamentalist christians/jews/muslims/mormons/etc just as much as militant atheists.
And Chatoyance, I'm sorry about what you and your spouse had to go through with those intolerant assholes. But the one thing I will say about mormons is that the architecture on their temples and churches is pretty neat. But thats about it.
My theology is at the bottom of a whiskey bottle because of shit like this.
This is why I am not religious. When you go down deep into the core beliefs of any religion, there is a hateful message somewhere. Luckily, most people aren't so extreme in their belief.
The day when religion no longer cause problems on this planet is the one when everyone has died and giant cockroach people have taken over the earth.
7903
Funny story chap, I happen to be a practicioner of the Asatru religion. Though the religion is steeped in glorifying war, there is no hate in the eddas based off race religion or gender. Unless your an Ice Giant of course. It values warriors, good fights and morals, not skin color and male genitailia.
I understand most of todays modern religions have that stuff though. Hell, I'm ex-mormon myself. I'm neigh disowned from my still christian father for being gay. Just try and remember, there are countless religions, and not all of them are built on hate.
To quote Ghandi: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ.
7903
Funny story chap, I happen to be a practicioner of the Asatru religion. Though the religion is steeped in glorifying war, there is no hate in the eddas based off race religion or gender. Unless your an Ice Giant of course. It values warriors, good fights and morals, not skin color and male genitailia.
I understand most of todays modern religions have that stuff though. Hell, I'm ex-mormon myself. I'm neigh disowned from my still christian father for being gay. Just try and remember, there are countless religions, and not all of them are built on hate.
To quote Ghandi: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ.
religion is complex, and cant be discussed in all trueness without damning yourself every sentence.
this is why ive chosen to belive and put my faith in only one thing, God him(it, her?)self. until you mathamatically explain creation im sticking to that. and the internet is largely effecting what my moral code is, the internet is a great place, and sites on reddit have taught me alot.
i swear, if i were you i would call the police or something, got a news station to RECORD ALL OF THIS its the point of the media. and i dont have a problem hating something so corrupt and evil, no problem at all.
Well said
i.imgur.com/QCCXQ.gif
I can't agree more about this.
8002
I know you exist now. Can we be friends?
I have fundys (not as bad as these) in my extended family so I know where your coming from.
P.S. I was inspired to write a CB story by your works, so I whould love it if you told me what you think of it. http://www.fimfiction.net/story/8314/Conversion-Bureau%3A-Operation-Ares-Kingdom
never really cared about religion in general myself (atheist). basically, i respect peoples choice to believe so long as they respect my choice not to, simple as that.
Mungu Bungu, God of The Jungle? that might be a new one for me o.O