Getting really tired of....

...power escalation in science fiction.

Comments

[Emeral Bookwise]

I'd ask what particular escalation is setting off this gripe, but I see a Star Wars tag on this blog so I'll just assume it's something to do with the newest movie (which I 've not seen yet) and be on my way.

[GreyGuardPony]

3629419

While it was something in the new movie that triggered this fresh round of eye rolling, Star Wars has been doing the power escalation thing for a long time. Just as a random example that I plucked out of my mind, Starkiller from the Force Unleashed games. The height we got of force powers in the original trilogy was Yoda lifting an X-Wing fighter. That asshole yanked a Star Destroyer out of orbit. Or, from the same game, the one Jedi he tried to kill early on who knocked a space station out of orbit.

It's hardly the only offender in this regard but it's one that sticks in my mind because of how...discordant it can make the whole universe feel sometimes.

[Emeral Bookwise]

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I should really be cautious about clicking responses in this blog, as I'm still in no position to discus The Force Awakens... but seeing as I did I sort of felt obliged to both agree and disagree in regard to The Force Unleashed.

Comparing that particular video game to the movies is just plain unfair to both. The entire premise of the video game was that all of the force powers were exaggerated and over the top. It wasn't really ever trying to replicate what we saw in any of the movies, but was rather just going for sheer spectacle of living out a power fantasy as a Jedi wrecking ball. Similar examples can be found elsewhere, such as the Clone Wars animated micro series -- with scenes like Mace Windu fighting an entire droid army bare handed, which can be somewhat hand-waved as being more so the "fish" story version that the young boy who watched him might have told later in life.

Point being, not everything we see across the various secondary media sources should be taken as literal canon... that said, the new movies are ostensibly going to be the primary canon moving forward. As I mentioned previously, however, I'm in no position to discuss that yet.

[Fresnor]

Is it over... DBZ scaling yet? What? You thought I was going to pull the lame obvious joke?

[GreyGuardPony]

3629585

I don't think it's unfair, considering that they tried to tied it directly into canon before everything got wiped out. Starkiller was supposed to be responsible for inspiring the iconography of the Rebellion from his house crest or something.

But, putting that aside for a moment, even side projects in a larger bit of media help build the look and feel of a universe. I mean....this discussion has kind of cropped up with the Lunaverse before, how fic A or B really fits the feel of the setting or what have you. Hell, arguably I've made the mistake of power escalation in a fic I wrote for it. What with The Watcher and his sight beyond sight thing.

Except that it's even worse with Star Wars. The Watcher's gaze- while annoying to deal with from a storytelling perspective- doesn't feel stronger in terms of raw power than say...Discord's reality warping, or Corona/Celestia's ability to drop a tactical solar flare nuke on someone's head. But things like Starkiller's capital ship tossing around, Darth Nihilus' ability to drain all life from a planet, Palpatine's fleet destroying force storm or the Sith Emperor's plan to drain all life from the whole galaxy in SWoTOR (probably the nadir of the force power inflation) are so far beyond what we saw in Star Wars before them, that they beat the internal logic of the setting into the ground with two by fours. Even with the higher benchmark set by the Death Star on the tech side, they've gone a bit overboard sometimes. The Sun Crusher anybody?

I just think that the constant upping of power levels in a setting can sometimes be a disservice to the overall setting and stories in it. And Star Wars? As much as I dearly, dearly love it, it can be really bad on that front sometimes.

[GreyGuardPony]

3629710

Dragon Ball Z just threw up its arms, said "Fuck it!" and went to ludicrous speed on the power creep.

[Emeral Bookwise]

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Yes and no.

For example, yes the basic story and events of Unleashed are canon to the Star Wars expanded universe, however, only in a broad strokes sort of way. The exact details, however, most specifically the game mechanics, were not. Notably, while in the game Starkiller literally rips a Star Destroyer from the sky, that same event was significantly downplayed in the novelization. As I recal the explanation was that since it was in dry dock at the repair facility Starkiller it's engines weren't online and so it was falling out of orbit all in its own. What Starkiller "canonically" did was use the force to guide it into more of a controlled landing, or something to that effect.

Although as you point out there are plenty of other over the top uses of the force in other expanded sources, and likewise I'd also agree that more than a few authors took Yoda's line about, "Size matters not," to some rather irrational extremes. Of course by contrast, it is somewhat worth keeping in mind that many of the limitation in the movies, especially the original trilogy, might arguably be the result of the limited special effects technology available.

It might not always makes sense, but with any media franchise as large as Star Wars a fan just has to learn to shrug it off and except that different iterations will operate with different contexts even while they otherwise ostensibly share the same continuity. Also, Star wars has always had multiple tears, and even sub tears, of canonicity to help try and smooth over relatively minor discrepancies in presentation.

Even with the higher benchmark set by the Death Star on the tech side, they've gone a bit overboard sometimes. The Sun Crusher anybody?

Actually , the crazy thing there is that the Sun Crusher was actually more plausible than the Death Star. True, it could destroy entire star systems, but the way it did it was by setting off a chain reaction in the system's sun to cause a super nova. While still requiring some rather outlandish hypothetical super science, at least it doesn't require the ludicrously insane power out the Death Star to instantly pulverize a solid planet -- although even that has been given various attempted rationalizations as to how it could actually work.

...

One more thing, and to bring this back around to your original post. It should also be kept in mind that Star Wars has never really been a sci-fi setting in the first place. It's never really concerned itself with how it's technology works nor the social consequences of such technology exiting -- it's all just loosely defined "space magic". In that respect, Star Wars has always been more like a fantasy setting (and a fairly simplistic one at that), that just so happens to bear a superficial resemblance to sci-fi.

...

Now, having said all that, it doesn't mean there shouldn't at least be a semblance of internal constancy, especially when it comes to a media's primary outlets -- which in regards to Star Wars would be the numbered films. Maybe episode-7 crosses a line, maybe it went to far, but I'll have to get back to you on that after I've had a chance to see and judge it for myself.

[GreyGuardPony]

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I will be the first to admit that this might be something that's just bugging me and only me. There is kind of look and feel for Star Wars in my mind largely defined by the original trilogy. I like the used feel of the universe and the idea that force users aren't the be all, end all of everything.

I historically have found myself to be in the minority on the force users thing. People seem to really like the over the top and powerful nature of the Jedi and Sith and the sheer amount of planet shattering weapons in the setting.

[Emeral Bookwise]

3630167
Maybe you're in the minority, but you're hardly alone. I actually mostly agree with you, if to a lesser extent.

I wouldn't say my definition of what a force user can do is strictly defined by the original trilogy. I mean, not only was there the practical limitations imposed by real world special effects technology of the time those movies were filmed, but even in universe the only practitioners we ever saw were either old/crippled or young/inexperienced. To me the prequels are a better example in so far as it was were we first got to see fully trained Jedi/Sith in their prime.

Even at that, however, force powers were fairly subtle -- physical augmentation, sensory awareness/premonitions, short range telekinesis, and suggestive mental persuasion. As long as sticks mostly to those parameters I'm usually not all that hung up about the scale of application. Whereas in certain expanded universe stories the Force tends to get exaggerated to pretty much be "magic" capable of doing anything the author can imagine, and I'll fully agree that can get pretty annoying, although can also sometime be entertain when purely within it's own tertiary context. Either way, something I can mostly ignore, being only pseudo-canon... again, whatever potential nonsense the new trilogy and beyond ends up bringing to the table notwithstanding.

Anyway, I've managed to confer with my family that we'll be going to see Ep7 tomorrow, after which I'll have a better personal gauge by which to properly evaluate my opinion in the matter.

[Emeral Bookwise]

All-righty then; just got back from the movie, and well... time for me to simultaneously agree and disagree with you some more.

Starting with Force powers. For the most part this move was pretty spot on for me, two outstanding bits. 1st was Rey pulling a Jedi mind trick out of her ass with no former training we're ever made aware of. Still, the ability itself is in keeping with canon, and it really only bothers me that she seemingly gets the idea out of nowhere. With a bit more setup, like maybe a second vision, I'd have been willing to give it a pass. More egregious though would be from near the beginning of the film when Kylo Ren freezes a blaster bolt in mid air. That to me was definitely over the top, completely unseosary, and only made all the more glaring by how long he seemingly holds it there without any obvious attention or effort. Still, as he could have just deflected it with his lightsaber, I'll just substitute him doing so for my own headcanon.

That said, there is one thing in this movie which I found to be an entirely needless and inexcusable escalation in the form of the Starkiller --aka Death Star mk3, only bigger and even more ridiculously destructive with its laser that can destroy multiple planets at a time from halfway across the galaxy.

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Over all though I really enjoyed the movie. It leaned a bit to heavily on nostalgia pandering and contrived coincidences; Notably in how the new heroes randomly stumble across both the Millennium Falcon and Anakin's Lightsaber. However, the movie almost completely makes up for any faults I could continue harping on about with the characters themselves (baring the singular exception Phasma who was a complete waste of screen time). This movie had had more emotion and depth in the initial introductory scenes then the entire prequel trilogy combined.

Much as I will always and forever be grateful to Lucas for creating Star Wars in the first place, this movie along side Empire Strikes Back are shining testaments to the fact he should have stayed out of the director's chair.

[GreyGuardPony]

3632367

That bit with the blaster bolt actually slipped past my critical radar. In retrospect, it was defiantly a bit of a stretch of force powers but I can almost squeeze it in under that "catch the blaster bolts" trick Vader pulled off in Empire Strikes Back.

It was Starkiller Base that really made me make the original blog post. It's one of those bits of power escalation that just leads to so many other questions if you think about the larger context in the universe. Like...completely draining a star every time you have to fire the damn thing seems insanely impractical. I kind of have this desire to send a note to everyone writing Star Wars that reads "Your Death Star rip off will never be as cool as the original. Stop it."

All in all, I also did enjoy the movie. It wasn't as good as the original trilogy (or the part of the original trilogy it was obviously mimicking) but it was enjoyable. They just did something with it that really hit a personal pet peeve when it comes to Star Wars media.