Emotion equivelency. [Pointless blog about Ineffable, feel free to skip over this. It's not important to like, updates or anything.] · 11:12am Jul 25th, 2014
So, I've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with my family this month. Get to have dinner with them this weekend. I don't like them, and they don't like me. However, they 'love' me on merit of being family. I play along and pretend to feel the same, but it's a silly concept. Humans mostly all are related to each other, the concept of only recognizing certain relatives based off of convenience and culture seems weird.
As such, it's got me thinking about my general issue with social interaction.
I've often pointed out I'm not really emotional. I feel anger, and a couple other things. Pride, lust, pain, hunger, ambition, annoyance, hatred. But love? Sadness, depression, emotional attachment, jealousy, and the like? Nah. I kinda-sorta feel happiness briefly for a few moments, rarely. But it's not hooked up right in my head or something. Happiness always hurts my head, and goes away after a few seconds.
People often mistake that for assuming I don't give a crap. I mean, emotionally I don't. But I don't care about those. To be content, is my equivalent of happiness. I can want, but I can't feel enjoyment from getting it. Though just the lack of wanting things is enough for me.
To get to the point: My condition makes me unable to see an objective or consistent reality, or be very emotional--and when I am, it doesn't last long. I'm a creature of principles, analysis, logic, and mental instability. For me, a friendship isn't about emotional attachment. Because I don't really have emotional attachment. It's just a concept to me. For example: I have a best friend. I don't like him. I don't enjoy his company. In fact, I usually hate him. I don't miss him when he's gone, and I wouldn't be sad if he died. However, we have common interests. He has my best interests in mind, and will do things to my benefit without seeking things in return. He has some characteristics I prefer to deal with, we know each other well enough to be casual to each other, and our relationship isn't heavily focused on personal benefit. We help each other without seeking compensation for it. As such, by concept, we are friends. It gives some stability to my attempts at comprehending an effective reality, and in the grand scheme of things, that's just how I work.
I mean sure. I'll emulate emotions. I'll act happy when I see someone I'm friends with online. But that's almost exclusively for their benefit--I do get ever so angry when people insist on asking if something is wrong if I don't act "happy"--to make the friendship feel closer to what they are used to: Heavily emotionally focused and sentimental.
Which leads to my issue. I'm not comfortable with lying or misleading people. I'm good at manipulation, really, really, really good at it--I convinced a girl she was a masochist at one point out of boredom--but it's because I recognize that humans are effectively machines, and study how they work. But to constantly manipulate, even if it's just for their sake, just makes everything seem like pointless calculations. I mean, I know it is regardless--yay for being an agnostic anarchist nihilist--but it makes things more interesting to not have to constantly dwell on that, as it makes everything far too simple. However, at the same time, if I'm honest, people have issues comprehending the idea of not relying on emotion for relationships, or they just don't consider it legitimate, even though I'm using the exact same checklists and concepts, just without emotional bias.
So, what I'm saying is, this is going to be an awkward dinner with grandparents, aunts, uncle, step-father and a mother that I neither like, or want to be around on principle. Ah well.
Highly calculating individuals seem to indeed have issues forming a connection towards others and with valuing them. It's kind of a pity, because you may be liable to constant and intense boredom
On that note, you could potentially have fun manipulating people in Town of Salem
I suppose that explains a thing or two that I was wondering about.
So life for you is sort of like a big game of The Sims but with less control and even worse AI?
2314649
!
That would make an awesome game! You could wreak such wonderful havoc, planting and tampering with evidence and making accusations until all that remains is a ghost town.
It seems that we have a stark contrast, in that I am a very emotionally invested person. I can't help it, and sometimes I wished I didn't feel so much for people.
I am curious though, for what purpose is this blog if you say it's pointless?
2314656 No, I have a lot of control. The issue is that controlling is boring.
Free will is an abstract concept, its a thought that exists so that people can sleep better at night. It's not an actual thing.
Most of the thought process occurs before conscious awareness, and conscious awareness is guided by the schema, which can be externally trained.
Alternatively, look at it this way: What is manipulation? It is an intentional attempt at influencing someones behavior to suit your own desires, with dishonest intentions.
What do humans do by nature? They observe the environment, learn, adapt, and change accordingly.
The only difference between natural reaction and controlled manipulation is if someone is intentionally trying to engineer an artificial environment to mislead your thought process. To acknowledge reality is to be open to manipulation. To cut yourself off from your environment is to be unaware of your own situation, making you vulnerable to manipulation done in a different manner.
Humans are evolved in such a way that resisting manipulation is effectively impossible. The only issue is that doing it leads to an ultimately unfulfilled life, due to excessive boredom as nothing is new, surprising, or unexpected.
2314649
I can't really not be highly calculating. If I stop, then I start becoming manic, become highly mentally and emotionally unstable, then start gaining symptoms of psychosis. My condition, if untreated or more specifically if allowed to escalate, ultimately leads to death from progressive brain damage after a few years if control is loss.
It's why I'm fairly uncompromising when it comes to my principles of what I'm willing to put up with. I need to calculate, I need to remain in control. Or else everything becomes really shitty.
... I'm basically a Sproink.
i.imgur.com/0XoWxqT.png
If you aren't familiar with Sproink, it's a Pokemon that constantly bounces in order to keep their hearts beating, if they stop bouncing, their hearts will fail, causing them to die.
2314664
It's pointless in the sense that it's not useful in the conventional sense. It's not a game giveaway, not an update about my work--of which, my next Fomalhaut update will be done this week--, or important news, nor is it here for humor.
It's just here so I can remember my thoughts, and because some of my followers like me to post blogs about myself from time to time.
Edit: I feel the need to point out that half of my issue is that I'm not much different from emotion focused people. I have a different, equivalent system that fulfills the same role in life. It's just a bit hard to understand, or specifically disliked, in general.
2314676
I'm going to try to gather my thoughts and speak them out. Also, sorry in advance if I get talky, I'm a conversationalist at heart and I'm interested in this particular conversation.
2314690
Feel free, I'm not opposed to opinions if they are valid.
2314661
Hopefully, Ineffable will meet more crafty players on both sides
2314669
I'm aware of that tragic Pokémon, yes
I understand curbing your very own nature is rather detrimental. I was simply stating my concern and attempted consolation, because ignoring the post would be awfully cruel.
2314669
I meant more that you don't have the power to magically box people into doorless rooms with nothing but an espresso maker for company and make them piss themselves to death. You make some very interesting points, though. I suppose to potentially possess true free will one would have to lack of any sort of instinct and exist within a void without any sort of stimulation, which sounds worse than any concept of Hell espoused by any religion that I've heard of. I suppose it's preferable for life to be more of an extremely complex choose-your-own-adventure book.
2314697
Turns out Satan really was working in that town. As an intern.
2314706
Even then, doesn't really work.
A lack of stimulation isn't hell, or any equivalent. It may seem like it, but like I said before, humans need to interact with their environment. To not do so is to disassociate from reality. To disassociate from effective reality, if there's no one around to interfere, benevolently or otherwise, is effectively lethal. You wouldn't remain rational long enough to really realize your own situation.
Look at it this way.
A person does not choose to be born. Once you are born, a process is started, this process is known as psychosocial development theory. It's natural development of the mind and body, as decided by your genetics. Your conscious thought has no part in this.
To begin with, your brain starts to develop, one function at a time, in a linear order. It also tests each phase against the environment. So, say, you're... two years old, and you just developed the capability to trust. Until you develop into the next stage of development, any interaction you have at that point will have a drastically more pronounced effect on you then it otherwise would. This state of adaption and development of personal characteristics is all internal genetics and external environment. You can not go "No, I don't want this", it is not an option, for the brain doesn't develop like that. At a stage hit roughly at the age of thirteen--stages are cleared at a rate primarily dependent on a healthy environment and genetics, so it can vary by a few months to a couple years from person to person--you get your 'puberty'. Where kids suddenly start changing a lot, or very little. There's a reason for that, and it's not sudden development of the importance of free-will from the now more tangible intelligence. At that point, the brain scales back. It takes what was learned in the previous stages, and tears apart any weak connections, then reinforces the rest. This removes a persons ability to pick up skills as easily as they used to, but makes them very good at a pre-set group of skills based off of how they developed during the early stages of the process.
Once they hit their early twenties, the brain finishes developing.
Nowhere, in any of that process is 'cognitive thought' crucial, or even vaguely important or relevant. Nor does it have any real effect.
For context, there's a variety of mental illnesses where people just quite simply realize that they have a schema. Where they have an automatic thought, realize its not a conscious thought, and can't actually do anything about it, even as they realize it's forcing them to think a certain way.
'Instinct' is exactly why people don't have free will. It's preset genetics, and environmentally trained responses, and really, any desire to change how they work is only really going to come up because of those same things. People have the illusion of free will for the same reason they have emotions. It makes them faster to respond to potential threats and more likely to pass on their genes.
Surprisingly, I'm actually a highly romantic individual, despite my inability to feel love.
2314706
Apparently so.
2314727
I want to reply with a comparably articulate response but the best I can come up with is "damn". With a mind like yours behind Path of Fomalhaut it's little wonder that it's so good. Glad to hear that the next chapter is so close at hand, by the way.
A romantic or no, you've certainly proven yourself lustful.
2314737
Yay for compliments.
Though to be honest, I'm not that happy with this chapter, it's all over the place.
Though, all chapters after this one will be much more productive, and interesting. In my point of view, anyway.
Well, you know how I said I couldn't be satisfied? Yeah, kind of applies for sex too. I can get horny, and I can orgasm, but I can't like, feel any pleasure from finishing. My lust just sits there, being constantly unsated until I start getting so sexually frustrated that I become increasingly physically violent.
2314740
I'm sure it'll be fine. You're setting up a mystery on a chapter-by-chapter basis so it's understandable that there'll be places here and there where you have to roll up your sleeves and somewhat roughly establish a few plot elements. As long as you don't venture into Cultural Artifacts territory with your story I think it'll be fine.
Have you considered chaining a pleasure slave beneath the table? Maybe a few hours of "lip service" will help grind the edge down a little even if it can't really make it go away. Plus you can just slap them around when the frustration peaks. How do you currently handle it, if you don't mind my asking? And why are we still talking in spoilers?
2314753
My issue with Fomalhaut is that there's too much plot. Like. It's five different full length fics.
Because I'm Demisexual. I don't really get off unless I have some sort of emotional connection. Or rather, since it's me, I just need to consider them a friend. Otherwise, I can't develop any attraction. Just a 'slave' or random person won't arouse me, regardless of what they do. It needs to be a friend, and none of my friends are especially interested in doing that sort of thing with me on a regular basis. Or if they are, they are annoying and so horrible in bed that I can't stomach dealing with them killing the mood every time they do anything.
2314760
I did notice that it's called "Act I". About how many chapters long do you see each act being?
2314761
It kind of depends on the Act. Like, they have different scales of what they cover. The first two acts will probably be the shortest, but I'm not really planning chapter total. I just know what each fic needs to cover, but I keep things somewhat vague so I can improvise and improve as appropriate.
Funfact: The title is actually foreshadowing something, but no ones been able to figure out what it is yet.
This is starting to sound a bit like The Fox and the Grapes...
On a more serious note, it's at least a good sign that you decided to talk about this here. The real question is this: why don't you share these thoughts with all those people that force you to pretend having emotions that you don't have (or at least claim not to)? Don't expect anything to change if you don't. And if you don't want anything to change, then that means you are content, therefore, based on what you said here, you are "happy."
2314770
I think it'll be fine as long as you pace yourself, giving various plot threads time to take roots in the minds of your readers. None of that "a new thread and a dozen twists every chapter" style some people go for.
Are you talking about when one of the star's planets passes through the system's debris field?
EDIT:
Hmm... I suppose you could try to befriend a male escort.
2314777
Tried with my mother, she ended up threatening me, then forgetting about the incident. She always forgets, and unlike me, she's not really concerned with her mental health.
My grandparents specifically, are not really people that get negotiated with. For reference: They disowned my mother when she married someone they didn't like. I don't just mean like, "Hey, we're not gonna talk to you", I mean, they cut all contact and support, burned what they had of her, and literally left her to die in shitty slums where she frequently dealt with burglars and the fact her husband turned out to be a criminal.
Like, they made it clear they don't really tolerate anything outside of their religion. They consider gay rights to be the downfall of society and evidence that everyone needs to burn to death for allowing it to happen, in a very, very literal and serious sense. They're not rational people, nor are they understanding. To be quite frank, I'm only dealing with family once a month, and I only do it at all because as shitty as they are, they at least gave me a place to live for--most--of my childhood life, as long as I perfectly behaved myself.
2314782
It was at 10k words and was only halfway done, and all of it was plot... with one brief scene about eating oatmeal.
That's why I had issues with this chapter.
I've mostly been tweaking it, and doing my best to set things up so I can slow down the pacing for future chapters, and instead of raising a crapload of questions and trippy symbolism, tone things down with some answers, and a couple more fleshed out mysteries.
Though, as much of a messy clusterfuck as this chapter is, it does give enough context for Fomalhaut as a whole to make a bit more sense without making things stop feeling mysterious.
Well. Now I know how to behave in the Skype chat.
Before, I wasn't quite smart enough to realize it myself. xP
So, I grant permission, if I'm ever a screw-up, for you to virtually slap me across the face.
Though, as always, it's interesting to learn more about you, and about this kind of behavior. I do not believe I've encountered an individual like yourself in the two places I've lived at, which is to say, not very far from one another (600 miles).
Sorry if I'm slightly incoherent, but my mind is currently halfway between Mars and Neptune.
2314793
Fair enough. But there comes a point when one must consider whether their own position is truly as "tolerable" as they believe it to be. Since I'm not in your position, I can't be the one who decides on that. I'm just sharing my thoughts in response to your own.
I can only bring up what I've seen in my own family as examples: too many of them are suffering because their situation sucks, but it's "tolerable," so they live with it. Then, years later, almost all of them admit that they could have been better off if they would have burned all the bridges back then and started over.
It may not suck enough right now, but it's only going to eat away at you more and more. That, or, like I said, it's not really that big of a deal after all if you find a different perspective.
Your call...
2314867
I will point out that I'm cutting ties to my family and moving to another country once I make the agreed upon payment for their services, i.e, allowing me to live with them.
It's nothing that will eat at me or have any long-term consequence.
2314983
Uh, no, not in the slightest.
I'm barely even considered sociopathic, and really, my attitude invalidates me for either condition.
I can't quite understand it, and I'm sure most people won't.
However, I will still accept you.
2315025
... Do you know what clinical psychopathy is?
2315138
Huzzah for true friends.
2315185
2314879 Why another country? whats wrong with canada D:
Not like you'd notice me but whatever, dood. Apparently your story fell out of my favorites and saw this so I'm super late to this party anyways.
I cant saw I know your feelings towards your family, dood. I love my family even though I feel like a stranger to them (Both sides for that matter). And to some of my friends I feel like I just don't belong, dood.
I won't lie and say I know your feels, dood. Because we've chatted over Skype before and you now that it's impossible for me to know what you're going through. So all I really have to add to this is... do what you can? While I do hope you can reconcile with your family and try to meet on even ground, I don't think that's a possibility anyways at this point, so... do what you can for now, until one day you get that freedom you were talking about.
As for your condition... I've been told about it many times and I'm still unsure about how to approach it and you seem to be fine with it, dood. It's weird that you hate your best friend and only stick with 'em because you have similar interests, not bad... but strange... to me at least. I'm a prinny so I don't have many friends so I wouldn't know if there are other ways to keep friends around.
Feel free to delete this if it sounds like I'm talking out of my ass, dood. Something I tend to do often for some reason.