Canon interpretation: Advanced Equestria · 8:50pm Jul 17th, 2013
I don't care much about headcannon. Headcannon is monolithic, something to argue over, upgrade, whatever. Far too barren. The setting as we see it is largely undefined; there are a multitude of interpretations that are (mostly) consistent with the sliver of setting we do see. That's what I prefer: a variety of interpretations of canon to be valued for how interesting they are and how fertile they are for stories.
In this coming series (if I can be bothered to continue it) I'm going to offer up some interpretations that appeal to me.
With that preamble out of the way here's the first interpretation: Equestria is considerably more technologically advanced than present day Earth, but this is not obvious because the ponies have a rather different social structure.
Support
1. Hearth's Warming Eve: The societies seen just prior to the founding of Equestria seem to have Middle Ages or Renaissance level of technology. We know that this had to be at least a thousand years prior to the events of FIM, because it was before Celestia and Luna were involved in Equestria. (Unless Luna's banishment occurred before Celestia and Equestria crossed paths, and the myth dates from another civilisation). Supposing Equestria were to keep up with West's level of advancement, and supposing the events of HWE took place around 1500-equivalent, that would put the technology level of FIM-era equestria at 2500-equivalent.
2. The ponies clearly have access to 19th and 20th century technologies. Steam engines, dirigibles, X-rays, Twilight's science gear.
3. Use of advanced artefacts, though rare, is evidently trivial. In Just for Sidekicks, three fillies were able to obtain a piece of industrial machinery on short notice for a tiny gemstone. This suggests a pretty powerful industrial base.
4. Some Pony technology seems beyond what we could achieve. Tank's propeller and the architecture of Canterlot, for example.
Social considerations
So, if the ponies have such advanced technology, why are they living in villages of thatched houses? They have a fundamentally different type of society to ours. In particular, they aren't that interested in industrial development or progress to the degree we are. Pony society is eudaimonic rather than growth-orientated. Perhaps the ponies never had an industrial revolution and instead developed the necessary technologies over a long period of time. Perhaps they had a society like ours until comparatively recently.
This could be due to an accident of history, innate pony psychology, or Celestia's influence. (The last one has a lot of story potential, I think -- exactly how much influence on pony civilisation has Celestia had? And what are her motivations for doing so?)
The best examples I can think of here are the societies of Ursula K. Le Guin; the Kesh in Always Coming Home have a mix of technological levels.
(Also, note that I'm putting aside normative questions of whether Equestria or Earth is better. I'm not gonna open that can of worms, not here.)
Implications
Well, there's the question mentioned above of Celestia's long term influence.
Further: What other sort of gadgets does Equestria have hidden away?
Is it possible the ponies managed to subjugate an initially wild and dangerous natural world, but have had one for so long that they can no longer remember how to deal with it?
One of the things I think is worth mentioning, is that ponies very likely only develop technology based on what they need. Steam Engines allow the movement of large amounts of goods and passengers long distances very efficiently, so it's not a surprise they have trains, but they never really NEEDED to advance past a steam powered engine (especially if some ponies are capable of moving the engine themselves.) Automobiles however, are fairly unnecessary, because they are little horseys. Medical technology has developed fairly far, because you can never have enough of that, but they still like oil lamps and candles.
As for certain things that are more advanced than what we have, magic certainly plays it's part. I think Tank's propeller device has a magic glow on it actually.
Another thing worth mentioning is we have only ever seen one large city with a major manufacturing center, the weather factory in Cloudsdale. I suspect that large cities like Manehattan and Baltimare, are the primary manufacturers of consumer goods, and their coastal locations allow them to be trade hubs as well. Canterlot is the capital, and a highly cultural city, but has almost no manufacturing capability, at least for raw goods. Smaller villages like Ponyville are largely agrarian. (I also suspect the frontier towns are probably close to mining locations. Deserts are often rich in mineral wealth.)
1217102 You're making me want to go back to playing Civ V.
But to return to the topic, I suspect that the growth of technology is necessarily stunted, or at least diverted, by the existence of magic in Equestria. So I don't think I personally buy them being five hundred years ahead of us, but I do think there's some definite evidence to put them on par with us or somewhat ahead, at least in certain areas.
I think it makes for a fertile ground for steampunk storytelling, honestly, since culture and technology seem to be operating on different levels. But steampunk is a bit pat. Really, the setting opens up all sorts of possibilities about looking at interactions between technology and society, if one wants to go that route. Skywriter's Contraptionology! has always been one of my favorite stories, and I think one of the reasons it's so good is because it plays around with these ideas to develop a really interesting central conceit.
Something I myself missed on writing "Contraptionology" is that Tank's propeller-beanie appears to be enchanted, not mechanical. There's a telekinetic glow around the base of the prop.
1217124
Never enuff steampunk. Or gaslight fantasy if you prefer.
Also, yes, play more Civ. Everyone I know needs to start playing it, then we will all gather together in a massive glorious orgy of world conquest. It will be nothing short of magnificent. The comp-stomp alone will be the stuff of legend and song.
The impression I constantly get from Equestria is one of "recent", rapid colonial settlement. We keep seeing vast expanses of empty land with the occasional almost entirely isolated town, with a lot of advanced infrastructure inside it, but almost nothing beyond. You can almost imagine a scenario where a prior, fairly advanced civilisation collapsed and almost completely disappeared, leaving behind a lot of technology that was subsequently reused by a new civilisation that rose in its place. It would explain all the anachronisms: they're operating with huge gaps in their knowledge, information that has been lost.
And of course magic takes the place of much we would require technology to achieve.
1217126
...which the previous commenter just mentioned. I really should read these things completely before opening my mouth.
How much of the other "technology" we see is just a mocked up shell with magic running inside? And if so, why is it built in this shape? Are ponies just faerie-like weather-driving creatures who one day decided to "play" industrialized society without a 100% clear grasp of it? And where are they getting their information of what an industrialized society should look like?
And what's with that rubber tire buried several strata underground in "Hearts and Hooves Day"?
Two key points I feel the need to address:
This assumes scientific advancement is a constant, or at least an unchanging function of the year. This is plainly not the case. Different societies with different resources made different discoveries at different times. If you were only to look at, say, western North America before the Louisiana Purchase, you'd be hard pressed to say what century it was, much less the year.
Second, you neglect to consider magic. Again, different resources. Equestria's technology is rife with what seem to be anachronisms because they have access to an entire fundamental force that we do not. Any comparison between the two worlds that ignores magic is doomed, because it is such an integral part of pony society. (Yes, even in ostensibly nonmagical events like Ponyville's Winter Wrap-Up. Spells aren't being cast, but innate magics are still at work.)
That being said, signs do point to Equestria having a post-scarcity economy, but because of technology that isn't superior, but so incredibly different that it cannot be compared to our own.
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I don't think there's any opposition between magic and technology. For the ponies magic is a part of the natural world. Leaning how to use it and engineer it towards their own ends is simply an element of their technology. Especially when you consider things like Tank's prop can operate independently of unicorn input.
Of course, it's quite possible that their thaumic prowess has lead to a lack of research in electromagnetism or nuclear physics or the like. And that pony tech level may be incommensurable with ours; much better at some things, much worse at others.
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Ooh, now these are some thoughts I particularly like. I've been trying to come up with a couple new story ideas recently (most of the ones I have banked involve Rarity and/or the CMC, and my last actual story had both, so I'd like to go somewhere a little different). The idea that pony society either doesn't have a total understanding of their technology or that they're "playing" industrialized society without really knowing what that entails both offer some interesting possibilities. For example, what if things suddenly stopped working? Particularly weather control and the seasonal changes, maybe all the way up to the day-night cycle. What if Equestria suddenly started behaving like the Everfree Forest, and nopony had any idea why? Seems like there are a number of fun ways one could take that.
Also, this reminds me that I really need to get around to reading Contraptionology soon.
1217137
Seems like Word of God stated that magic more or less replaces electricity for Equestria, though the hydroelectric dam would indicate that they use electricity in some capacity anyway.
In any case, it is nearly certain that their technology is blended with their magic quite well.
Also consider the relative peacefullness of the pony population, composed of herding herbivores. War tends to drive technological progress, and although the presence of the Royal Guard indicates a certain degree of conflict capable citizens, the vast majority seem to take a leisurely approach to life, assisted by a reduced demand for physical goods like clothes.
1217137 That rubber tire might prove the civilisational collapse idea.
Shape. I think, isn't such an important consideration. Even if you replace your motive energy source with something magic, a jackhammer is still going to be a big cylinder with a pointy bit on it and a camera is still going to require lenses to focus light even if you've replaced photo-film with a magic CCD.
1217138 Certainy true. A lot of technological advancement has been simple luck that the right mind found the right precursors and stuck them together in the right way. The ancient greeks had primitive steam engines and clockwork gearing. If they'd combined the two the world would have been a very different place. They used them as the Achaean equivalent of executive toys.
1217138
Quite correct. We haven't much evidence that pony society develops at a rate anything like ours. This is the weakest of my arguments.
Still, it's not too much of a stretch to suppose they got a fair bit done during that millennium or more.
1217136
"The last of them left its name written in the stars, but nopony who came later could read it. More imporantly, perhaps, it build enduringly despite its failing strength -- leaving certain technologies that, for good or ill, retained their properties of operation for over a thousand years. And more important still, it was the last of the Afternoon Cultures, and was followed by the Evening, and Equestria."
1217177
This may well be true. Of course, ponies could know violent conflict without having any idea of large scale war. I don't want to idealise ponies, but it seems reasonable (given what little I know of horses) that they would lack the drives that lead people to create political or commercial empires.
1217129
If this ends up happening, contact me. I want in.
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I'd like to expand on the observation of towns being a central unit, and there being vast quantities of "empty space" between them.
Ponies have cutie marks. Ponies are good, indeed driven, at what they have their mark for. Ponies only ever get one cutie mark. From these observations I pose that ponies have developed a highly specialized society, one which breeds interdependence and community. This "empty space" is accounted for because the ponies naturally group together in rather large numbers so they can account for their individual weaknesses. I'd also pose that it would be strange to find a town smaller than Ponyville, as it would lack the population necessary to support their deeply specialized state of affairs.
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And to touch base with the idea of Magic and Technology, I think a good place to look at to highlight a disparity would be the Zebras or the Griffons. Both of them are entirely mundane (to my understanding, one could argue differently I suppose), yet exist in a world where magic is the norm. Throw a pony into their world, instant culture shock. Could play it a number of different ways. I'm actually writing something on the side that uses some of these concepts, there's a lot of fertile ground, as it were.
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I think that was brought up in the OP, and I also think there have been some stories on it. Contraptionology and Earth and Sky come to mind, though I'm only just now reading the first, and the last is sitting on my (shamefully large) read later list. Are there any others that you people know of? It's an interesting question.
"Necessity is the mother of invention"
Something occurs to me.
Rainbow named her tortoise tank, and odds are she wasn't referring to a water tank, particularly given how she arrived at the name. So Equestria is at least aware of armoured cavalry. Aside from the obvious I mean.
Although, the concept of the tank has existed since the Renaissance era, courtesy of Leonardo DaVinci...
1217124>>1217271>>1217186 One important consideration is: there is no real infrastructure necessary to use magic as a power source. Steam (well, coal) and electricity don't just show up at your door without a hell of a lot of work being done first. For unicorns, anyway, getting magic was never a problem that had to be solved. So no power grid.
This dramatically changes what "industrialization" means. No real need for factories, as labor-saving devices can be handmade and installed without running wires to the house. As long as the resources exist to pay all the craftsponies, there's no demand for reduced labor costs (and I can see Celestia maintaining this status quo actively)
You know why the greeks didn't build steam engines? Slave labor was cheap. So why spend the money? You know why Americans put so much effort into developing cars and tractors? Horse feed costs money. But what possible use does a pony have for a horseless carriage?
Since books seem to be readily available and literacy near universal, designs would be easy enough to spread, thus allowing innovation without industrialization. Because magic.
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You bring up an interesting point. If we look at the Flim Flam brothers, such magic comes from unicorns. This brings up a few troubling thoughts...
1217428
Things like this... ugh. Most times you know things like this are just artifacts of the fact this is a cartoon created by humans, they draw off of our expectations. This leads to an indirect as well as often direct anthropomorphization of the show. Then obsessed fans, like us for example, become hellbent on creating an overarching rationalization for these silly little things put in to make the show flow. I might be alone in disliking this, I dunno. (
though Blue_Paladin42 might just be having some fun, I might be blowing this out of proportion
)
Nice pun, though
1217842
I like puns.
I was being serious though. And it doesn't strike me as odd that Equestrian citizen's would know what a tank is, even if Equestria does not and has not ever used them themselves. We don't know how other cultures developed after all. As for overthinking things, I am totally guilty as charged. I ended up writing a lengthy speculative blog post about why the buffalo stampede, speculating that it allowed them to manipulate the environment in a similar manner to earth ponies, but it requires more effort (ie. yearly rounds.)
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I am all for overthinking things. To return to a point brought up initially by Scramblers in the OP, what I find annoying is when some particular interpretation gets elevated above the others, to the point where alternative views or ideas get swept aside.
I guess that's why these nit picky details bug me. I feel that trying to accommodate these small periphery elements limits the breadth and freedom the MLP setting gives us. I don't want to slap an [Alternate Universe] tag on my fic just because I don't pay attention to these little things
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1217842 just one more thing to consider when deciding how much tribalism you want in your story.