Limit Break · 8:50pm Mar 31st, 2013
In the Exalted game series, from White Wolf, one of the mechanics that the characters must contend with is "Limit Break" (or equivalents, depending on character). Essentially, having a magical superweapon grafted to one's soul is kind of destabilizing, and so occasionally a character will crack, and go into Limit Break. From TV Tropes:
When an Exalt acts against their character or marshals their willpower against unnatural mental influence, they accrue Limit. When they reach a breaking point, they undergo a Limit Break and act either towards or against their guiding virtue in a fashion that makes "extreme" look mild. It's not necessarily unstoppable rage either. Sometimes it's Unstoppable tears, Unstoppable Protectiveness, or almost any other trait turned up to eleven.
...I'll skip the rest of the setup and just say, sounds familiar? I think it entirely possible that this is the downside of the Elements of Harmony, and what drove Luna nuts, and also to a lesser extent what is going on for EVERY pony with regard to their cutie mark as the "guiding virtue".
On the other hand, as far as I know, Limit Break occurs only because of the Great Curse. So, essentially, having said magical superweapon cursed and its defensive mechanism against unnatural mental influence corrupted by the Primordials that were betrayed and killed by it is what leads to instability. An Exalt freed from the Great Curse no longer suffers Limit Break.
So, if we continue using this analogy, the "downside" of the Elements and cutie marks might be the result of malevolent outside influence. Could be an interesting idea for a fanfic.
964324
Most of them do that, but the Rakshasha and so on also suffer a Limit Break-equivalent. And even redeemed Abyssals (who have turned back into Solars) have a - much harder to trigger - Limit Break, despite not having the Great Curse any more.
Perhaps Discord's method of attack in S2E1-2 was a variant of the Great Curse in concept - making Limit Break much easier to go off.
965262
Well, I honestly don't know enough about exalted to either agree or argue. Most of my knowledge comes from spacebattles and wiki. Although about redeemed Abyssals:
Source: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Great_Curse
And if we are comparing Discord's attack to the Great Curse... Well, two possibilities exist:
1) The Elements were already 'cursed' more than 1k+ years ago, which resulted in Nightmare Moon and in Celestia not using them anymore. In this scenario Discord doesn't need to be the one to corrupt the Elements themselves, merely the one to use already existing vulnerabilities in order to 'induce Limit Break' on their wielders. Luna may serve as a test subject of this method(Discord got the idea and poorly implemented it - results were delayed and absolutely uncontrollable - I seriously doubt that total genocide and/or eternal anything in any way shape or form was on Discords' agenda), Mane 6 - as examples of a perfected method(while imprisoned, Discord perfected the technique - results were almost immediate and stable - no megalomania, simply great enmity between wielders). This premise would imply possible eventual resurgence of the originator of the pseudo-'Great Curse', who most likely is actively malevolent. S3E10 in this continuity may or may not happen - it doesn't have immediate major impact other than the possibility of redeemed Discord cueing in the wielders and the Princesses on the fact that specific vulnerability exists and that somebody else(not Discord) created it.
2) The Elements were cursed by Discord specifically, most likely in his fight with Princesses that lead to his first imprisonment. In this scenario Discord is a Power on the whole other scale - it is one thing when he can locally warp reality in limited ways and use magic on par with an alicorn; it is a very, very different thing when he can freely curse and/or corrupt what can be summed up as the focal points of Harmony, of his antipode - the Elements themselves. S3E10 if it happens in this continuity has major impact on the world - possible results may be on par with the aftermath of the Primordial War.
Well that's a long comment...) Tl;dr This idea could lead to several different possible implementations, all quite interesting depending on the deatils.
965666
Yay discussion!
Interesting stuff. I'd lean towards there not being Discord directly involved with the curse itself, if there is one.
I suppose I wasn't originally saying that a curse was directly present, so much as that a limit break like mechanism occurs naturally (either for Element bearers, or for ponies generally). It certainly seems to fit in that sense.
Oh, any idea why my name has gone golden?
966010
April Fools. Everyone sees their own name as golden. Exception/bug - if users' ID ends in 0, then everyone sees their name as golden.
Well, yes, originally the discussion was based on pseudo-'Limit Break'. But then I thought - if such method of influence works, there must be some inherent vulnerability in the scheme "Wielders + Elements = Rainbow beam of BEFRIENDING(Nanoha-style) and/or Megadeath". And if there is a vulnerability, how and why does it exist? Since no benevolent or ambivalent reason for it to exist is readily apparent, one logical conclusion to draw was that the source might be similar to the source of Limit Break. Therefore I assumed hypothesis that it was pseudo-'Great Curse'-effect that was the reason and source of the vulnerability. And there we get abovementioned two possibilities.
Direct exploitation of the connection between Elements and their wielders by Discord without already existing vulnerabilities(1st scenario) or creating a vulnerability(2nd scenario) is unlikely, in my opinion. Although still possible, especially if the vulnerability is associated not with the Elements, but with their wielders... Yes, it nicely fits in all of the theories where most of the Elder Gods/Great Old Ones/other Incomprehensible Abominations and their magic are madness-inducing to a mortal being. This enables a theory that cutie marks and/or inherent magic of ponies in general works as a sort of a constant defense with short-lived mental breakdowns if the mechanism is temporarily overloaded/overworked.
Bonus points if cutie marks were evolved as a defense mechanism for mortal ponies in order to deal with Immortal Princesses...)) Nicely explains Twilight's predisposition to psychotic episodes in general and why she was the last to be affected by Discord)
966243
Sure? I saw someone else's name as - oh, the second part. Right.
And yeah. What originally struck me is "hey, this description of how they build up and then go nuts fits quite well with most of the main cast".
And the reason I leave it a little open ended is that, while I can't be sure, I think it is possible others (non main cast members) have had vaguely similar breakdowns at some point.
Problem is, we tend not to look at others for long enough to actually see one way or the other.
(Idea: this mechanism is the thing that Poison Joke affects, blocking that pathway and hence causing a character-appropriate mess up.)
966306
If you are further interested in what else people have done for April 1st here, you can visit the following:
http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/147994/dear-fimfiction by knighty - declaration of independence from fimfiction.net by admin
http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/148201/greetings-from-your-new-site-owner by Poultron - declaration of war on any new HiE fics and any and all new fics involving humans by new admin.
The pages contain enormous amounts of butthurt, trolling and cautios waiting for April 2nd in order to find out whether it is true or not.
About Poison Joke - Well, either your version is close to truth or this plant is omniscient non-equinoid abomination from beyond time and space) I'd like to limit their number in my headcanon)
EDIT: Well, I've gone to make... Let's call it breakfast - haven't eaten today yet. Since all I have in the fridge are eggs, bread and apples and I don't currently have a frying pan, the eggs will be most likely 'fried' in microwave. Will be back, maybe with some ideas, soon-ish if they don't explode there. Not so soon-ish if they do...)
EDIT2: they almost didn't.
966306
Hm... I wonder... It is generally agreed that Cutie Mark Crusaders are one of the greatest(if not the greatest) constant sources of chaos in the series. It's self-explanatory that they don't have cutie marks yet. If this hypothetical 'defense mechanism' consists from both cutie mark and inherent magic of a pony - then their behaviour not only isn't extraordinary, but is expected - they have only half of the 'equation' protecting their selves from outside influence. If we assume that ponies and this mechanism are inherently connected to harmony(at least to some degree), then this imbalance in CMC will result in their inherently chaotic and disorganized behaviour. While adult ponies express their chaotic tendencies that stuck with them from childhood in (mostly) controlled creative manner, in CMC we see uncontrollable creativity.
So, one possible line of reasoning leads to the fact that CMC and foals without cutie mark in general are physically(or metaphysically) unable to not bring about chaos and act responsibly. That it is not a matter of maturity and thinking things through, but a matter of recognizing and separating their selves from the world. It is often told that cutie mark is obtained when a pony understands their special talent but sometimes people add or imply "and their place in the world/equestria". The second part fits this theory almost ideally - cutie mark is obtained in revelation of the foal's sense of self.
Well, now. I have proof that insanity is self-propagating - I almost made ponies into some kind of pseudo-Raksha, mostly unshaped as foals and shaped as adult ponies.
Any alternative ideas? Mine is somewhat unsettling. Although it almost explains Pinkie. )
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I wasn't thinking nearly that much into the setting, I have to say... my fics tend to be based around things like crossovers or fusion fics, with one changeling-centric. It certainly seems to make sense, but it's as important to remember that the cast is fundamentally relate-able (even if we never actually DO the out-there things the CMC do at times, normal human kids can come up with some fairly crazy antics on their own. I seem to remember accidentally cartwheeling down a hill, myself... don't necessarily ascribe to magic what can be mundane, as it were.)
966879
Meh, I was bored, decided to think. This was the result. Considering, for example, the fact that when I'm drunk I have an urge to discuss nuclear physics in-depth... What we got here isn't very surprising and still paints an interesting picture.) Shame it most likely won't be written as a fanfic - but I don't trust myself to write fanfiction even in my native language and am afraid to imagine what insanity me writing a fanfic in english will end in.
Yes, their behaviour can be attributed to mundane reasons. But introducing magical or unusual reasons, while easy to overdo, can lead to amusing results and situations. And, when done in a certain way, it would really unnerve the reader when seemingly-human in their behaviour characters have absolutely inhuman reasons for behaving that way. On the other hand when overdone it usually leads to conspiracy theories, which few desire to discuss.
Vulpine and Ashes of the Past aren't based around crossovers or fusion and are very interesting to read. ) Well, they aren't primarily based on crossovers. On the other hand, considering the number of the minor crossover elements... Nevermind) But, while I mentioned it, Ashes of the Past is one of the few Pokemon fics that are awesome)
967621
I should rephrase. Every pony fic I write is like that. Everything else tends to be crackfic of some sort. Even the serious fics tend to have some insane crackfic concept taken seriously...
967772
Well, can't argue with the author)
By the way, noticed your first blog entry here. Impressive work.
And since there is nothing more I can say to stay on topic here, I wish you good luck in your life and in your writing.)