2441762 Terry Pratchett has always been my favourite author. I learned English just to read more of his books as only a few had been translated. I have every single one of them, and whenever I need to cheer up, I pick one of them up. He's a genious of balancing even the darkest, most violent themes with witty comedy and social commentary. If I ever become a real writer, I hope to be even a fraction of how awesome he is.
Shiny was based on Vimes in the beginning, and now that I think of it, too much. After I've gotten more comfortable with the way I see him as a character, I've moved away from that typecast with giving him a lot more naive outlook on the world and the way he thinks about things without being able to help it. I've added loads of flaws to him to bring him alive... and hope he's still at least remotely relatable after all that.
What I'm a bit ashamed of is that I wrote myself, or at least my idealised version of myself into the story as an OC... I can always defend it as a good way to advance the story.
2438606 To be honest, one of the sparks for this story was how you took the events of the Royal Wedding and how they would have affected Twilight and the rest of the mane cast realistically in Post Nuptials, especially because the whole story could have been completely canon, as it didn't bring anything new to the canon, but worked so well with the existing characters and situations. It's easy to add OC's and go wild, but keeping it in check is a big skill, which I'm trying to learn in this story. Unfortunately I could not have told this story without adding the few supporting cast I have because I didn't want it to be another Twilight/Celestia comes and fixes everything with magic -fics either.
2442238 If it advances the story then it's not a problem.
Incidentally these two maids... I admit I was rather unkindly disposed toward them. They seemed to be very callous and almost determined to grab the wrong end of the stick as firmly as possible whenever the opportunity presented itself. Great characters even so. Of course it was pretty obvious by the time of the big blow out that they simply couldn't know what they were saying was causing so much pain.
To anyone who thinks the maid turnaround was an out-of-left-field BLAM: that would be my fault. As Isseus says, the turnaround was planned fairly early into their conception, and their over-the-top and frequently assholish behaviour was mostly me. And also, huge thanks to Isseus for letting me grope around the maids scenes in this chapter, even after I spent two weeks being flakier than a Cadbury's factory.
2442278 Hasn't a large part of FIM aesops been about not judging a book by its cover, not jumping to conclusions, giving people another chance and trying to understand them even when they seem to be bullies?
Boy do I feel happy to see these two have a heart to heart. I was apprehensive about the mess that they were getting themselves further and further into, but now it seems the made a real decisive step towards repairing what has been damaged!
and the maids really just pulled out all the stops. Going from really easy-to-hate characters to characters I could actual see have further relevance later on in the story (But if they don't, that's alright, but I feel like it would be a missed opprotunity considering how close they are to Cady)
But I have a question, does this mean that things are winding down in this story? Like, is the next chapter going to be the conclusion? That would make some sense, because as it stands, everything seems to be resolved now. (or at least, brought to a point where the reader can be fairly sure they'll be okay.) So I wonder if that's it then.
All in all, really happy to see this chapter! But wouldn't mind if there were any other surprise turns ahead. Good job!
2442345 Winding down? Hay no. just saying sorry doesn't mean they've fixed everything up. I could see at least 4 chapters more, and depending on one subplot, might be even more.
2442238 He is. Personally, for some reason, I've never liked Vimes, even though I should. Do you know that feeling? Knowing that this is the character you are supposed to root for, and you just want for somebody to shove a sock in their mouth?
Ah well- enough of that! I've throughly enjoyed your story so far. A crying shame I found it just now, really. It's head and shoulders above many attempt I've seen to make the setting more "realistic" (read:grimdark). Your world feels alive- things don't happen in a vaccum! Actions create ripples creating reactions, and they all fit together. Things make sense. and despite how ridiculous that sounds, that's not an easy feat.
2442383 Just between you and me, sometimes I feel like a combination of a fractal chaos mathematician and a medium when trying to get the world to work.
2442238 Well, this is one step in the right direction on the road, that's for sure. And that's a major understatement. This is a very good story.
Still, I like happy ends. I'm guessing 'end of story', soon? I personally hope Luna goes out to party, or something.
On an unrelated note, every time I upload a chapter to one of my stories, one of the stories I read updates. This time, it was literally ten minutes after I uploaded..... Perhaps I should write more.
P.s. The maids annoyed me oh so much before, but Chuck wrote their lines brilliantly-- it really felt like a forced 'nothing is wrong' charade. Paranoia is magic.
2442404 Well, I'm kinda sorta moonlighting as a gamemaster for a Dungeons&Dragons group running a self-written campaign, with every adventure tying into the greater narrative. We've been gaming since 2011, so... yeah.
Also, a heads up:
Her mane is frazzled, and hanging in matted clumps stuck to his face. She still clutches the blanket like an armour and shies away from his gaze.
I guess that's Cadance's face, so maybe it should be "her".
2442475 DMing is one of the best ways to learn how to create a narrative and build a living world. Also helps when you have to quickly assume vastly different roles when playing the NPC's. I've been playing and DMing since... 1999.
The maid turnaround is a little unexpected, and feels just a little bit contrived, given their earlier behaviour, but it's not so far out as to break realism completely, and the explanation makes sense. The fact that their insult about Shiny's impotence was a shot in the dark was something I expected from the moment I read it - if it had been planned they would've put a lot more weight into it and introduced it earlier. Alas, I never actually posted my prediction so I can't say "I told you so"...
That said, they are still bitches in my mind. They were acting on the wrong information, sure, but the way they were acting speaks to a core personality that is absolutely sickening. Even if everything they believed had been true, their actions were still inexcusable and worthy of their termination.
Also:
"Cady... I did not lie to you about the two of them. I did not lie about my impotence either. I really can't get it up, and I'm trying to fix it with the therapist. But... when I'm alone... and I get these weird thoughts... I do get it up." He blushes, in part because the two maids are still standing mere feet away from him. "There's something really wrong with my head, and I don't understand what's going on in there."
He walks next to the bed and sits down next to it. "But I did lie to you about going to work when I went drinking with my friends. And I'm... sorry. I'm so sorry, Cady. I felt like I had to get out, away from my own problems, just for one night. I didn't do it to hurt you. It was stupid of me, and it only made things worse."
He falls silent, and eventually has the courage to look up Cadance. She look back at him, her lower lip trembling.
There is one major thing missing from this part. It's so important for him to say that it honestly feels like a hole because it's not there. Cadance's main fear at this point is that Shining cheated on her. Adn while every other detail is being addressed, this one isn't. One of them needs to bring it up, right here, right in this part. Cadance cannot be placated without it being said; I just don't believe it.
While looking straight into her eyes: "I never cheated on you, Cady, I swear."
2442564 Whatever. Your bias about the maids is well known, and you'll whine about everything they do and say to prove that they are evil, even though it's been shown they aren't.
“It wasn't an earth-shattering revelation, sir, you understand,” Feather Duster pipes in, “Broom Sweep and myself were still incensed at the damage, and the only difference was tjat we wanted to find our Cady and give her a proper boll— telling off for her part in it. And you'd just gone and told us about your, ahem, troubles in the bedroom, and we—”
you missed typed "that"
don't worry i do it all the time.
after review: i quite liked it, i wish the Maids were better turned over. not to totally do it, but maybe flushed out more, and showing more guilt, like, boarderline crying once Shining puts the pressure on, and he suddonly goes "oh...maybe i should lighten up on them"
i'm also abit disappointed that there was no fevered, Submissive Cadence/Domanint Shining ear biting, hair pulling, spanking, make up sex
I'm sorry but this does feel like a cop-out to me. All that shit she put him through and HE begs her to forgive him when he did absolutely nothing wrong?
I'm sorry, it wasn't meant as an offense to you as the author. It's just my view. And I didn't harp on about those two nearly as much as some people did (I think?). Those two certainly contributed (dare I say "positively"?) to the plot, and I'm not by any means saying they shouldn't be in this story. Now that that particular Chekhov's gun has been fired, I can see why you had them there from the beginning. I still don't like them as people... that's a personal judgement.
I really don't mean to "whine". And I don't think I'm "biased"; I'm judging them on the totality of their behaviour as presented in this story. This is how I would judge real people who did things like this.
I won't mention this topic again if you don't want me to.
Sad Fluttershy to show that, like Shining, I don't want to fight:
I've known about the maids from the beginning. Honestly, was it really necessary to say it was a wild guess? I'd have to reread the specific chapter but I'm sure he explicitly said that he was impotent to the maids before the maids ever called him impotent.
2442672 Yeah, sorry. I was being nasty. It's just that sometimes I think that you only post comments on the things you find wrong in the story. Started irking me off, even if you didn't really mean it like that. So let's be friends.
2442763 Depends a lot about what kind of a therapist we're talking about. If I'd chosen a straight cognitive therapist, or a (ughh...) psychoanalyst, then the sessions would have been quite different.
Here's to hoping she doesn't try art therapy on him.
2442766 Errr... what? Are we talking about the same story here? The one where he blew a fuse and tried to get them fired because of them calling him impotent? And what do you mean "known about them from the beginning"? That doesn't even mean anything!
Yeah, I guess I'm not focussing on the positives much? I banged out that first post on this chapter in a bit of a hurry, and looking back on it, it is overly critical. So here's some positive:
I really, really liked this chapter. After so long seeing Shiny and Cady's marriage degrade, it's such a relief to finally see them moving in the right direction together. It's positively cathartic, and I'd say it's about time, too. Those two will need a lot more time to heal, of course, and you saying that there are four or more chapters left to go is great news! I look forward to reading them.
(Really, yours is one of those stories that I will drop everything else to read as soon an update comes out. Despite my criticism, I continue to be impressed.)
Also, I thought this bit was simple, yet brilliant:
"...assault a royal personage, attempt to grievously harm the said personage, poison him, kidnap him or something like that, just lock him up and throw away the key."
Just imagining Luna saying this made me burst out laughing.
Okay, now that I've actually finished reading this chapter, I can get into actually talking about it.
I have to say that even being aware ahead of time that the maids were likely just trying to cheer Cadance up and weren't intending to aggravate Shining (like I kept harping on; he never freaking SAYS when something is bothering him) I was still impressed with how well the maids managed to 180 their sense of hostility.
I still find the resolution with Cadance here almost too easy. The end of that argument had him breaking down on the floor screaming in fear as she approached him, which prompted her to run away, or at least leave. I was expecting Shining's attempt to convince her of his faithfulness to be much more difficult, since he would need to both convince her of his honesty, and also convince her that she wasn't a monster that he hated (an idea that would in turn make her more likely to believe that he would WANT to cheat on her)
Admittedly much of the peaceful resolution here could be attributed to the maids acting as a trusted party vouching for him. I'm still left feeling like there is so much, perhaps even too much, hanging over their heads for them to just cuddle up and go to sleep together, but sometimes that's just how things have to be handled in a relationship: You haven't fixed things, but neither of you are in condition to work through those issues, so you just have to go to sleep, and let the closeness be the silent pact that you're both sticking together to work through the rest of those issues in the morning.
however, there is still that last issue hanging in the air. If the maids were only taking a shot in the dark on the impotence issue, then what was Cadance referring to when she said "they promised not to tell..." Promised not to tell what? That phrase was a critical breakdown in Cadance and Shining's argument last chapter that provoked him to mouth off about only being impotent to her, and now it just seems to be swept aside. Is that getting retconned or something?
Holy crap, unless you actually went back and reworked the dialog here, then you did one hell of a job in terms of perspective coloring interpretation. I could have SWORN that Cadance was referring to the the maids promising not to tell about the impotence issue specifically, and that was even while I was consciously making a point to account for the slant that Shining's perspective would be putting on everything ever since I realized that Isseus was managing to create a proper "flawed narrator" around chapter 2 or 3.
Actually, I just want to touch on this flawed narrator concept, because it is one of my absolute biggest pet peeves in fan writing, rather the lack of it is, and I see writers screwing it up ALL the time,(like even some published authors) but for as much as I hate it, I still realize that it is one hell of a difficult writing element to nail properly. (in fact I think I need to go back and double check some of my own writing to make sure I covered for this) So often I see stories where the character whose perspective the readers are supposed to be following notice things or assume things that the character has no business knowing. "that's when I noticed the crystal on the wizard's mantel that contained all of his power, so i attacked and broke it (Even though there were absolutely no signs mentioned in my presence that the crystal had any significance)" Managing to write a character that is observant enough to convey to the reader what is going on, while still having an internal interpretation that completely alters how those observed events are perceived is just damn impressive to me.
That all said, it's nice to have the two of them back together already, with that established everything else is pretty much certain to fall into place. Not easily of course, but I haven't found any issue that can't be worked through as long as the couple works through it together. Actually it's for that reason that I would have actually liked to see it take another chapter or two for Cadance and Shining to get completely back together. The main tension in this story, that kept me on the edge of my seat, was wondering how the couple would survive the ever mounting problems with the lack of communication screwing them both up. Now that the lines of communication are back open they should be able to discuss the problems and deal with them so drawing that out for more than another chapter or two seems like it would be a challenge. Now what I COULD see causing problems is if the talk doesn't go both ways. We know about all of Shining armor's issues, and addressing most of them is pretty simple; Cadance backs off on having servants do everything for them and works to balance his "princely duties" with still getting time to focus on his military role, the maids are already resigning (or at least have offered to do so) so that is all taken care of. With having a little more control, Shining will almost certainly show some distinct improvement, but there's still Cadance's side of things to consider, she was kidnapped, replaced, and no one, not even the people she loved and who "supposedly" loved her seemed to even notice. Cadance cannot be in a good spot after all that, but with Shining's problems being the most obvious due to the physical symptoms, it would be easy for them both to gloss over Cadance's issues, which would mean that their relationship still isn't in the clear.
I suppose as much as I am left wondering how they're going to finish working things out, I'm wondering what issues could actually come up to cause enough problems for things to keep going.
2442564 While looking straight into her eyes: "I never cheated on you, Cady, I swear."
And Cadance finally believes him.
He can't say that, because he doesn't believe that. He slept with Chrysalis, forced, seduced or otherwise.
I meant that it was fairly obvious that they weren't the malignant harpies the other commentors believe. As for the impotence thing:
“Honestly, you act like the brooding, sulking and lashing out would hide your obvious impotence rather than—”
“How the fuck do you know about that? Tell me who fucking told you! I DEMAND to know!” screams Shining Armor, inches away from Broom Sweep’s chubby countenance.
The way I read that the insult was more of a generic mean spirited ad hominem that Shining over reacted to and accidentally revealed his secret because of it.
I was pretty worried that people would think this was it and there'd be some sort of epilogue that glossed over everything that's still messed up. Think of this as a breather and actually beginning the healing process, and not as a solution to anything. One of them had to take the initiative, and even with all his faults, it ended up being Shiny. Now let's see where this goes, and maybe, just maybe, if I can put the Comedy tag back to good use.
2442841 One thing that I may not have made clear enough in the story itself was physical exhaustion. Cadance had been awake at least last night, and it's heavily hinted that she only slept a few hours the night before. She took almost anything positive to feel better and safer, and all she really wanted from Shiny was for him to come save her and hold her.
Shiny wasn't in much of a better state. One half-night in a drunken stupor, the next on the cold floor of a cell. I tried to remind the reader that he was running on fumes alone, only thinking about Cady, Cady, must apologise to Cady, must fix things with Cady.
"I never told them something like that! And they'd never tell a soul of what happens here! They promised!"
Haven't touched any of the dialogue there. And yes, this is quite an ambiguous line.
I can't comment more on the events, but I promise you I'll be getting back to them in a lot more detail. You know I don't like loose ends.
He can't say that, because he doesn't believe that. He slept with Chrysalis, forced, seduced or otherwise.
I absolutely love the direction this story has gone. I still dislike those maids, though. After all of the damage they've caused, I just can not bring myself to sympathize with them.
I still think the maids were well out of order. Not because of some idea of "respecting" people in authority (because screw master-slave relationships like that), but just as decent people/ponies. You just don't talk to people like that, regardless of who they are. For goodness sake, learn basic human/pony respect you two.
This chapter was definitely a high note to end my evening on. Much appreciated Isseus, and it's nice to see the maids weren't all that villainous in the end. It was a pretty good twist I wasn't expecting. But it all kinda felt... too easy? Something like that at least. It's hard to accurately describe my thoughts on that.
He hasn't turned in the papers yet, but he should do something. They have not paid the consequences for their poor choices. Helping to repair a relationship they had a part in tearing up doesn't make up for the fact that they did the damage with malicious intent.
I don't think firing them would be the proper course though. I would have them charged with conspiring against royalty and require them to do some wageless community service. After that they would be put back into the castle's maid training program, and afterwards reinstated as maids for Cadence with a contract that has no special edicts of protection.
Firing them would piss off Cadence in the long run, even if she knew they quit on their own volition, and letting them off only with a scolding will make Shining look like a pushover and vulnerable to manipulation by his competitors/enemies. The best compromise is a punishment just short of firing them with a healthy shot of humiliation.
Good chapter, but I didn't see the maids switching sides like that due to not seeing much of their side of the argument. All I saw was Shining's constant humiliation by their aggressive conversations. I assumed Cadence talked to them about her troubles because they are her caretaker. The fact that she didn't was the curveball for me.
"Cadance... I have never betrayed you, and would never—"
He already said it.
My only point was that it really needed to be said again, right at the point where Cadance turns, just before she starts to apologise. The thought of Shining cheating is still on her mind, since she dismissed his earlier denial as a simple lie. And although logically Cadance should know that he didn't lie about this (just as he didn't lie about the maids), by virtue of its emotional weight it'll continue to sit in Cadance's thoughts until it's explicitly addressed. I don't think she'd be able to say "I'm sorry." until it was.
But the maids wouldn't bother with that. They're already resigning on principle/in shame. The whole point of turning in your resignation like that is so that you can leave, without going through a messy, protracted firing, or a situation where your colleagues make things so unpleasant for you that you quit anyway. They know they've fucked up, and know that leaving is the right thing to do. Why stick around?
I feel like a fool for not seeing through them at first... Great chapter.
2441713 90% of the maid scenes and what they say are Chuck. I mostly edited some stuff in them for continuity.
2441762 Terry Pratchett has always been my favourite author. I learned English just to read more of his books as only a few had been translated. I have every single one of them, and whenever I need to cheer up, I pick one of them up. He's a genious of balancing even the darkest, most violent themes with witty comedy and social commentary. If I ever become a real writer, I hope to be even a fraction of how awesome he is.
Shiny was based on Vimes in the beginning, and now that I think of it, too much. After I've gotten more comfortable with the way I see him as a character, I've moved away from that typecast with giving him a lot more naive outlook on the world and the way he thinks about things without being able to help it. I've added loads of flaws to him to bring him alive... and hope he's still at least remotely relatable after all that.
What I'm a bit ashamed of is that I wrote myself, or at least my idealised version of myself into the story as an OC... I can always defend it as a good way to advance the story.
Damn I wanted a divorce
2438606 To be honest, one of the sparks for this story was how you took the events of the Royal Wedding and how they would have affected Twilight and the rest of the mane cast realistically in Post Nuptials, especially because the whole story could have been completely canon, as it didn't bring anything new to the canon, but worked so well with the existing characters and situations. It's easy to add OC's and go wild, but keeping it in check is a big skill, which I'm trying to learn in this story. Unfortunately I could not have told this story without adding the few supporting cast I have because I didn't want it to be another Twilight/Celestia comes and fixes everything with magic -fics either.
2442238 If it advances the story then it's not a problem.
Incidentally these two maids... I admit I was rather unkindly disposed toward them. They seemed to be very callous and almost determined to grab the wrong end of the stick as firmly as possible whenever the opportunity presented itself. Great characters even so. Of course it was pretty obvious by the time of the big blow out that they simply couldn't know what they were saying was causing so much pain.
So really I feel sorry for everyone now.
Also Pterry for the win!
To anyone who thinks the maid turnaround was an out-of-left-field BLAM: that would be my fault. As Isseus says, the turnaround was planned fairly early into their conception, and their over-the-top and frequently assholish behaviour was mostly me. And also, huge thanks to Isseus for letting me grope around the maids scenes in this chapter, even after I spent two weeks being flakier than a Cadbury's factory.
2442240
Calm down there, Satan.
2442278 Hasn't a large part of FIM aesops been about not judging a book by its cover, not jumping to conclusions, giving people another chance and trying to understand them even when they seem to be bullies?
WOOHOOOOO
Boy do I feel happy to see these two have a heart to heart. I was apprehensive about the mess that they were getting themselves further and further into, but now it seems the made a real decisive step towards repairing what has been damaged!
and the maids really just pulled out all the stops. Going from really easy-to-hate characters to characters I could actual see have further relevance later on in the story (But if they don't, that's alright, but I feel like it would be a missed opprotunity considering how close they are to Cady)
But I have a question, does this mean that things are winding down in this story? Like, is the next chapter going to be the conclusion? That would make some sense, because as it stands, everything seems to be resolved now. (or at least, brought to a point where the reader can be fairly sure they'll be okay.) So I wonder if that's it then.
All in all, really happy to see this chapter! But wouldn't mind if there were any other surprise turns ahead. Good job!
Good to see another chapter at last and things seem to be wrapping up at last. So is the next chapter the final one or is there a few more left?
2442345 Winding down? Hay no. just saying sorry doesn't mean they've fixed everything up. I could see at least 4 chapters more, and depending on one subplot, might be even more.
Is this the remnants of something that was supposed to be removed or something that got removed in error?
2442238
He is. Personally, for some reason, I've never liked Vimes, even though I should. Do you know that feeling? Knowing that this is the character you are supposed to root for, and you just want for somebody to shove a sock in their mouth?
Ah well- enough of that! I've throughly enjoyed your story so far. A crying shame I found it just now, really. It's head and shoulders above many attempt I've seen to make the setting more "realistic" (read:grimdark). Your world feels alive- things don't happen in a vaccum! Actions create ripples creating reactions, and they all fit together. Things make sense. and despite how ridiculous that sounds, that's not an easy feat.
2442383 Just between you and me, sometimes I feel like a combination of a fractal chaos mathematician and a medium when trying to get the world to work.
2442238
Well, this is one step in the right direction on the road, that's for sure. And that's a major understatement. This is a very good story.
Still, I like happy ends. I'm guessing 'end of story', soon? I personally hope Luna goes out to party, or something.
On an unrelated note, every time I upload a chapter to one of my stories, one of the stories I read updates. This time, it was literally ten minutes after I uploaded..... Perhaps I should write more.
P.s. The maids annoyed me oh so much before, but Chuck wrote their lines brilliantly-- it really felt like a forced 'nothing is wrong' charade.
Paranoia is magic.
2442404
Well, I'm kinda sorta moonlighting as a gamemaster for a Dungeons&Dragons group running a self-written campaign, with every adventure tying into the greater narrative. We've been gaming since 2011, so... yeah.
Also, a heads up:
I guess that's Cadance's face, so maybe it should be "her".
2442475 DMing is one of the best ways to learn how to create a narrative and build a living world. Also helps when you have to quickly assume vastly different roles when playing the NPC's. I've been playing and DMing since... 1999.
And thanks for catching that one. Fixed it.
Yes, Love Rulez!
Now Shiny must help his "little friend"
The maid turnaround is a little unexpected, and feels just a little bit contrived, given their earlier behaviour, but it's not so far out as to break realism completely, and the explanation makes sense. The fact that their insult about Shiny's impotence was a shot in the dark was something I expected from the moment I read it - if it had been planned they would've put a lot more weight into it and introduced it earlier. Alas, I never actually posted my prediction so I can't say "I told you so"...
That said, they are still bitches in my mind. They were acting on the wrong information, sure, but the way they were acting speaks to a core personality that is absolutely sickening. Even if everything they believed had been true, their actions were still inexcusable and worthy of their termination.
Also:
There is one major thing missing from this part. It's so important for him to say that it honestly feels like a hole because it's not there. Cadance's main fear at this point is that Shining cheated on her. Adn while every other detail is being addressed, this one isn't. One of them needs to bring it up, right here, right in this part. Cadance cannot be placated without it being said; I just don't believe it.
While looking straight into her eyes: "I never cheated on you, Cady, I swear."
And Cadance finally believes him.
2442564 Whatever. Your bias about the maids is well known, and you'll whine about everything they do and say to prove that they are evil, even though it's been shown they aren't.
“It wasn't an earth-shattering revelation, sir, you understand,” Feather Duster pipes in, “Broom Sweep and myself were still incensed at the damage, and the only difference was tjat we wanted to find our Cady and give her a proper boll— telling off for her part in it. And you'd just gone and told us about your, ahem, troubles in the bedroom, and we—”
you missed typed "that"
don't worry i do it all the time.
after review: i quite liked it, i wish the Maids were better turned over. not to totally do it, but maybe flushed out more, and showing more guilt, like, boarderline crying once Shining puts the pressure on, and he suddonly goes "oh...maybe i should lighten up on them"
i'm also abit disappointed that there was no fevered, Submissive Cadence/Domanint Shining ear biting, hair pulling, spanking, make up sex
I'm sorry but this does feel like a cop-out to me. All that shit she put him through and HE begs her to forgive him when he did absolutely nothing wrong?
2442635 Um... OK.
I'm sorry, it wasn't meant as an offense to you as the author. It's just my view. And I didn't harp on about those two nearly as much as some people did (I think?). Those two certainly contributed (dare I say "positively"?) to the plot, and I'm not by any means saying they shouldn't be in this story. Now that that particular Chekhov's gun has been fired, I can see why you had them there from the beginning. I still don't like them as people... that's a personal judgement.
I really don't mean to "whine". And I don't think I'm "biased"; I'm judging them on the totality of their behaviour as presented in this story. This is how I would judge real people who did things like this.
I won't mention this topic again if you don't want me to.
Sad Fluttershy to show that, like Shining, I don't want to fight:
...ok, they maids are ok in my book now, but they still need to do something cool for the wedded couple.
...and I really hope this is the first step to Shining and Cady actually having sex. They need it.
Yeah, I'm gonna go against the flow and say it: frankly, I still despise those two maids.
2442654 Remember what Luna said? It's not about who's right or wrong, but about one side giving up and starting to fix things up.
2442705 To each their own I guess. At least there's more to them now than just being asshats.
I've known about the maids from the beginning. Honestly, was it really necessary to say it was a wild guess? I'd have to reread the specific chapter but I'm sure he explicitly said that he was impotent to the maids before the maids ever called him impotent.
2442672 Yeah, sorry. I was being nasty. It's just that sometimes I think that you only post comments on the things you find wrong in the story. Started irking me off, even if you didn't really mean it like that. So let's be friends.
2442763 Depends a lot about what kind of a therapist we're talking about. If I'd chosen a straight cognitive therapist, or a (ughh...) psychoanalyst, then the sessions would have been quite different.
Here's to hoping she doesn't try art therapy on him.
2442766 Errr... what? Are we talking about the same story here? The one where he blew a fuse and tried to get them fired because of them calling him impotent? And what do you mean "known about them from the beginning"? That doesn't even mean anything!
2442773
Yeah, I guess I'm not focussing on the positives much? I banged out that first post on this chapter in a bit of a hurry, and looking back on it, it is overly critical. So here's some positive:
I really, really liked this chapter. After so long seeing Shiny and Cady's marriage degrade, it's such a relief to finally see them moving in the right direction together. It's positively cathartic, and I'd say it's about time, too. Those two will need a lot more time to heal, of course, and you saying that there are four or more chapters left to go is great news! I look forward to reading them.
(Really, yours is one of those stories that I will drop everything else to read as soon an update comes out. Despite my criticism, I continue to be impressed.)
Also, I thought this bit was simple, yet brilliant:
Just imagining Luna saying this made me burst out laughing.
Okay, now that I've actually finished reading this chapter, I can get into actually talking about it.
I have to say that even being aware ahead of time that the maids were likely just trying to cheer Cadance up and weren't intending to aggravate Shining (like I kept harping on; he never freaking SAYS when something is bothering him) I was still impressed with how well the maids managed to 180 their sense of hostility.
I still find the resolution with Cadance here almost too easy. The end of that argument had him breaking down on the floor screaming in fear as she approached him, which prompted her to run away, or at least leave. I was expecting Shining's attempt to convince her of his faithfulness to be much more difficult, since he would need to both convince her of his honesty, and also convince her that she wasn't a monster that he hated (an idea that would in turn make her more likely to believe that he would WANT to cheat on her)
Admittedly much of the peaceful resolution here could be attributed to the maids acting as a trusted party vouching for him. I'm still left feeling like there is so much, perhaps even too much, hanging over their heads for them to just cuddle up and go to sleep together, but sometimes that's just how things have to be handled in a relationship: You haven't fixed things, but neither of you are in condition to work through those issues, so you just have to go to sleep, and let the closeness be the silent pact that you're both sticking together to work through the rest of those issues in the morning.
however, there is still that last issue hanging in the air. If the maids were only taking a shot in the dark on the impotence issue, then what was Cadance referring to when she said "they promised not to tell..." Promised not to tell what? That phrase was a critical breakdown in Cadance and Shining's argument last chapter that provoked him to mouth off about only being impotent to her, and now it just seems to be swept aside. Is that getting retconned or something?Holy crap, unless you actually went back and reworked the dialog here, then you did one hell of a job in terms of perspective coloring interpretation. I could have SWORN that Cadance was referring to the the maids promising not to tell about the impotence issue specifically, and that was even while I was consciously making a point to account for the slant that Shining's perspective would be putting on everything ever since I realized that Isseus was managing to create a proper "flawed narrator" around chapter 2 or 3.
Actually, I just want to touch on this flawed narrator concept, because it is one of my absolute biggest pet peeves in fan writing, rather the lack of it is, and I see writers screwing it up ALL the time,(like even some published authors) but for as much as I hate it, I still realize that it is one hell of a difficult writing element to nail properly. (in fact I think I need to go back and double check some of my own writing to make sure I covered for this)
So often I see stories where the character whose perspective the readers are supposed to be following notice things or assume things that the character has no business knowing. "that's when I noticed the crystal on the wizard's mantel that contained all of his power, so i attacked and broke it (Even though there were absolutely no signs mentioned in my presence that the crystal had any significance)"
Managing to write a character that is observant enough to convey to the reader what is going on, while still having an internal interpretation that completely alters how those observed events are perceived is just damn impressive to me.
That all said, it's nice to have the two of them back together already, with that established everything else is pretty much certain to fall into place. Not easily of course, but I haven't found any issue that can't be worked through as long as the couple works through it together. Actually it's for that reason that I would have actually liked to see it take another chapter or two for Cadance and Shining to get completely back together. The main tension in this story, that kept me on the edge of my seat, was wondering how the couple would survive the ever mounting problems with the lack of communication screwing them both up. Now that the lines of communication are back open they should be able to discuss the problems and deal with them so drawing that out for more than another chapter or two seems like it would be a challenge.
Now what I COULD see causing problems is if the talk doesn't go both ways. We know about all of Shining armor's issues, and addressing most of them is pretty simple; Cadance backs off on having servants do everything for them and works to balance his "princely duties" with still getting time to focus on his military role, the maids are already resigning (or at least have offered to do so) so that is all taken care of. With having a little more control, Shining will almost certainly show some distinct improvement, but there's still Cadance's side of things to consider, she was kidnapped, replaced, and no one, not even the people she loved and who "supposedly" loved her seemed to even notice. Cadance cannot be in a good spot after all that, but with Shining's problems being the most obvious due to the physical symptoms, it would be easy for them both to gloss over Cadance's issues, which would mean that their relationship still isn't in the clear.
I suppose as much as I am left wondering how they're going to finish working things out, I'm wondering what issues could actually come up to cause enough problems for things to keep going.
He can't say that, because he doesn't believe that. He slept with Chrysalis, forced, seduced or otherwise.
2442800
I meant that it was fairly obvious that they weren't the malignant harpies the other commentors believe. As for the impotence thing:
“Honestly, you act like the brooding, sulking and lashing out would hide your obvious impotence rather than—”
“How the fuck do you know about that? Tell me who fucking told you! I DEMAND to know!” screams Shining Armor, inches away from Broom Sweep’s chubby countenance.
The way I read that the insult was more of a generic mean spirited ad hominem that Shining over reacted to and accidentally revealed his secret because of it.
2442830 And now you're just sucking up.
Not that I mind. Do continue.
I was pretty worried that people would think this was it and there'd be some sort of epilogue that glossed over everything that's still messed up. Think of this as a breather and actually beginning the healing process, and not as a solution to anything. One of them had to take the initiative, and even with all his faults, it ended up being Shiny. Now let's see where this goes, and maybe, just maybe, if I can put the Comedy tag back to good use.
...And they still get fired. I'm satisfied with this turn of events.
2442844 Well that was what happened. But remember where Shiny was (mentally) at the time.
2442841
One thing that I may not have made clear enough in the story itself was physical exhaustion. Cadance had been awake at least last night, and it's heavily hinted that she only slept a few hours the night before. She took almost anything positive to feel better and safer, and all she really wanted from Shiny was for him to come save her and hold her.
Shiny wasn't in much of a better state. One half-night in a drunken stupor, the next on the cold floor of a cell. I tried to remind the reader that he was running on fumes alone, only thinking about Cady, Cady, must apologise to Cady, must fix things with Cady.
Haven't touched any of the dialogue there. And yes, this is quite an ambiguous line.
I can't comment more on the events, but I promise you I'll be getting back to them in a lot more detail. You know I don't like loose ends.
ARGHARGHARGH shut up.
2442841 WTF?!
Being raped is not cheating.
Despite what a certain horrible movie would have you believe.
I absolutely love the direction this story has gone.
I still dislike those maids, though. After all of the damage they've caused, I just can not bring myself to sympathize with them.
2442764 Exactly! Now they're unemployed asshats! (jk)
2442845 will we be seeing some make up sex? That mature tags is sitting there waiting
Anywho amazing chapter, screw the haters and keep up the great work
Obligatory mustaches
I still think the maids were well out of order. Not because of some idea of "respecting" people in authority (because screw master-slave relationships like that), but just as decent people/ponies. You just don't talk to people like that, regardless of who they are. For goodness sake, learn basic human/pony respect you two.
Shining should let the maids stay to make Cadence more happy. My opinion. Great story.
This chapter was definitely a high note to end my evening on.
Much appreciated Isseus, and it's nice to see the maids weren't all that villainous in the end. It was a pretty good twist I wasn't expecting. But it all kinda felt... too easy? Something like that at least. It's hard to accurately describe my thoughts on that.
2442938
Read what I said again, a little more carefully. Even if Shining armor was raped, it doesn't-
2442905
oh, well, I guess I shouldn't really say anything more then, sorry
2442848
He hasn't turned in the papers yet, but he should do something. They have not paid the consequences for their poor choices. Helping to repair a relationship they had a part in tearing up doesn't make up for the fact that they did the damage with malicious intent.
I don't think firing them would be the proper course though. I would have them charged with conspiring against royalty and require them to do some wageless community service. After that they would be put back into the castle's maid training program, and afterwards reinstated as maids for Cadence with a contract that has no special edicts of protection.
Firing them would piss off Cadence in the long run, even if she knew they quit on their own volition, and letting them off only with a scolding will make Shining look like a pushover and vulnerable to manipulation by his competitors/enemies. The best compromise is a punishment just short of firing them with a healthy shot of humiliation.
Good chapter, but I didn't see the maids switching sides like that due to not seeing much of their side of the argument. All I saw was Shining's constant humiliation by their aggressive conversations. I assumed Cadence talked to them about her troubles because they are her caretaker. The fact that she didn't was the curveball for me.
2443195 Shining most certainly does believe it.
He already said it.
My only point was that it really needed to be said again, right at the point where Cadance turns, just before she starts to apologise. The thought of Shining cheating is still on her mind, since she dismissed his earlier denial as a simple lie. And although logically Cadance should know that he didn't lie about this (just as he didn't lie about the maids), by virtue of its emotional weight it'll continue to sit in Cadance's thoughts until it's explicitly addressed. I don't think she'd be able to say "I'm sorry." until it was.
2443199
But the maids wouldn't bother with that. They're already resigning on principle/in shame. The whole point of turning in your resignation like that is so that you can leave, without going through a messy, protracted firing, or a situation where your colleagues make things so unpleasant for you that you quit anyway. They know they've fucked up, and know that leaving is the right thing to do. Why stick around?