Chapter Twenty-Three
They had all gathered back in the main conference room with any levity muted as they took their seats at a large table, Celestia flanked by Fancy Pants and Claret Holder while a score of nobles and political officials joined them, facing opposite of Luna and her Directors. Cadance took the seat at the head, setting herself apart and neutral in the upcoming talks.
Both sisters were staring hard at each other, waiting for the other to blink or speak first. Finally, Fancy Pants coughed and looked at the Directors and asked them, "Not much has been said about the Lunar's Republic's actual intentions with Equestria. As you were once of us, please, can you tell us in simple terms what you and your people want from us? Reunification, trade partners, or..." He paused for a moment, then continued. "Well, whatever it is, please tell us."
"Do not insult us about talks about reunif-" Luna began, only for Director Honey Spice to cough loudly and Director Raven Inkwell to speak up.
"What we mean to say is that we have no desire to even discuss reunification," the mare said. "We have had our independence for a thousand years, and our two societies have each developed in such different ways that quite frankly, based on what we have observed here, any attempt at merging our two nations would result in utter chaos in all directions."
"Not to mention," Director Quick Light said. "There would be dissatisfaction from everypony involved with us living above you and massive distrust that we do not come down, the fact we currently lack the means to readily do so notwithstanding."
"To be completely honest with you Equestrians," Director Honey Spice said, looking more stern now than she had in most of their earlier talks. "Most of the Republic would like to see and experience Equestria as it was our ancestral home but none of us want to go through another experience like the Night of Departure again."
"And that is a matter we need to address," Cadance said, causing all to look at her. "I am aware that the Republic has been isolated for a thousand years and as such you have not learned of the Solar and Lunar Accord yet. It was put in place following your departure from Equestria by the rest of the world when Head Director Luna held the moon in the sky for three days straight."
Luna suddenly looked very serious. "And what, might I ask, is this Accord?" she asked.
"Essentially, the rest of the world has threatened a unified assault against us if the sun and moon do not stay on schedule without proper notice to any change to either's orbit," Claret said with Celestia looking away from her sister. "We do not have exact details to their plans for obvious reasons but sufficient to say, it has been an ugly roadblock to furthering peace on Equuis with this threat leveled against us."
Luna opened her mouth as if she was about to say something but instead closed her mouth, a blush appearing on her cheeks. After a moment of mulling it over, she finally said, "After we finish our business here and begin to introduce ourselves with the rest of Equuis, we will need to properly address this Accord. Equestria does not deserve to have such a thing hanging over its head for the actions I took those nights; I stilled our moon to act like a beacon for my followers of the past so they could join the rest of us while I focused almost all of my power to keep up a sustainable environment until we could create and seal our first shelter from the vacuum of space." She frowned. "Not to mention that while Celestia and I still have our differences, punishing her for my actions is not something I would accept."
"That will be appreciated," Claret Holder said, looking at Celestia who simply nodded her head. "The Accord has been an unfortunate thorn in making any proper progress on the world stage since its ratification, and it is just as unfortunate to have it placed upon you with your introductions to the wider world."
"It is a burden we will be willing to share; you are our cousins and you shouldn't be blamed for what was our doing," Director Onyx Plate said before Luna could speak up, eyeing her before he continued. "And that is something we will need to address right now. The Night of Departure or the Longest Night. What exactly happened during that time to give rise to these Avengers?"
Celestia let out a sigh, causing everypony to stare at her. "They were the participants of that night, Luna," she said with her sister narrowing her eyes and the room getting noticeably chillier.
"Of those you allowed to go unpunished, correct Princess?" Luna fired back with Cadance's eyes widening at the sudden downturn in the mood.
"I took care of it with the proper legal steps, and not hanging them like somepony wished for," Celestia said hotly before looking at Cadance's frown. Then she steeled herself and looked at Luna again. "I believe it is time we had our talk, Luna. Privately."
"Out of the question," Director Honey Spice said. "The matters of Equestria and the Republic involve every-"
"This will have very little to do with any lasting stances between the two," Luna said, cutting her off. "This is a long time coming; we have personal issues to discuss and matters to bring to rest. Please, leave us be."
Everypony turned to Cadance who was staring intently at the two sisters. "I am not certain if that would be a good idea-"
"As Luna said, we have personal issues to address that we are ready to deal with now," Celestia said stiffly.
"I do not know when we will be ready to do so again, so we should not waste this chance," Luna added with everypony reluctantly standing up and leaving the room. Cadance was the last to go, looking worried as she went, and Luna's heart went out to the younger mare. But she could not say anything just yet, no matter how much she wanted to.
The doors closed with a heavy thud, echoing in the near empty negotiation chamber with only the whispers of wind blowing through as Luna's eye bore into Celestia, who refused to blink. Despite her sister's dress of finery, she was under no illusion that it did not contain concealed weaponry and protection if the meetings between their two ponies were to deteriorate to the point of open conflict once more.
Luna might have gained some more magical might in the last thousand years but she knew her younger sister was no match to her own prowess and Luna was anything but a fool. She would see her own weakness and work to counter it.
"Let us get to the crux of the matter, Luna," Celestia said sternly, staring at her sister. "You have little hope or desire to bring our ponies under one umbrella of Harmony. You are only entertaining this notion for your own personal goals. That whole stunt at the Summer Sun Celebration was just your way of flaunting before a large crowd."
Luna glared at Celestia, her green eyes burning into the older mare before she gave a near imperceivable nod. "The odds were always against any form of reunification. Beyond the simply massive gap between our two nations in almost every aspect in culture and technology, the fact remains that we are on opposite ends of our species' growth. Your ponies are still just beginning to understand the power of electricity and basic machinery while mine are ready to leave the world behind and begin to colonize the stars. We worked hard to reach this point, with many sacrifices and harsh lessons to teach us how to respect and honour what we have. Would you give yours the means to produce plasma-based firearms and hope they understand the dangers that comes with them and trust that they do not let this newfound power go to their heads?"
It was Celestia's turn to wince, knowing Luna spoke the truth. The gaps were rather massive and there would be resentment from both sides if their ponies were to be brought together. But before she could speak, Luna continued on.
"Furthermore, I do not wish to put my citizens under your rule. Frankly dear sister, by your own words, you have proven you do not respect my Republic or my people's work. You have constantly referred to them as our ponies, already seeing them under Equestria's umbrella. You do not see the Lunar Republic as its own nation, not truly. Your own bias would see my people's identity submerged under Equestria's and all the prejudice that forced our departure a thousand years ago would return, only far worse this time. That has always been your deepest flaw; you take the longer view and you act like the matter is already resolved when it is still unfolding before you."
Celestia glared hard at her sister, snorting in anger. "You are avoiding the question, Luna," she stated, eyeing her carefully. "You are trying to guilt me into accepting whatever you wish to truly accomplish here. So speak plainly."
"Uncomfortable with your own medicine, I see," Luna shot back with a smirk on her face, no doubt enjoying seeing her mask slip. "Very well then." she said, sitting back in her chair. "As I said, my ponies are ready to leave the Equuis system and I do intend to join them, at least in part to oversee our first steps on new worlds. And," she said hotly, "I cannot do that while still being the Lady of Night."
Celestia's eyes widened as she began to understand the true depth of her sister's plans, while Luna continued speaking. "I have a few candidates for my replacement but the main issue comes down to you. Making one of my ponies the new Lady of Night would mean they would need me to teach them, which I am capable of doing. What I am not willing to do, however, is leave them with someone like you to be their Opposite. I will not leave some pony to be taken under your wing and place the Republic's homeworld under the influences of Equestria and have our way of life become corrupted by the people who forced our departure a thousand years ago. To be plain, as per your own request, I will not let the Night or the Lunar Republic become servants to the Day or Equestria."
"And what would you have me do, Luna," Celestia shot back, glaring at her sister with her coat bristling in anger.
"Same as me," Luna fired back. "Step down. You claim to be a teacher and a fair and just leader; surely you would have molded ponies suitable to taking your place and not just let matters stay as they were, never growing or changing. After all, if you are the great leader you claim you are, there must be countless ponies suitable to become the new Lady or Lord of Day and ruler of Equestria. I mean," Luna glared with a vicious grin on her face. "The notion that you would not have taken anything that has happened in the last thousand years as a means for personal growth and just hoped that I would come back and let things go back to as they once were would make you the greatest fool of the ages."
Celestia heard a sudden thunderclap and saw her sister jump backwards, with the doors to the chambers slamming open. Both her guards in their traditional armour and Luna's in their highly sophisticated plating fanned out to their princesses, weapons drawn as they glared at their opposites.
"I will take this as a recess to our discussion, Celestia," Luna said with an angry tone, though she had a hurt look briefly visible in her eyes. She was quickly ushered away by her personal guards, leaving through a side door. Celestia stared at her sister departing while ignoring her own ponies' questions before she looked down at her hooves and did a double take.
It was not thunder she had heard before but her hooves breaking the table in a flash of anger and rage. She had scared her sister once again and the notion rocked her to the core. She needed to rethink her approach and how to handle this properly.
It was time to stop thinking of Luna as her sister and treat her accordingly. This was somepony that she needed to properly evaluate and plan accordingly for.
Luna sighed heavily as the negotiation room doors closed behind her. This was not going to be easy to deal with.
Then she noticed she and her guards weren't alone in the hall. While most of their representatives had moved on, one pony had clearly been waiting for her. "Cadance?"
"Yes, Aunt Luna?" The younger alicorn's voice indicated she was clearly rather stressed at the moment, and Luna winced. This was not going to be easy.
"Are you all right?" she asked.
Cadance sighed. "I'm worried about the both of you," she said.
Luna nodded. "I can understand that," she said. "But you also have to understand that Celestia's and my differences go back a lot farther than just the events leading up to the night my ponies and I left Equestria." Then she tilted her head. "How much has your other Aunt taught you about our kind?" she asked, as delicately as she could. It would be a welcome distraction from that private discussion with her sister. She had not intended it to go so poorly, but Celestia had the tendency to bring out the worst in her... As she did to her sister. "Alicorns, that is. And our history."
Cadance frowned. "Not very much," she said. "All she ever said, the one time I asked, was that our tribe used to be as numerous as each of the Three Tribes, then... something ugly happened to most of us. She also said that I was the first new alicorn she knew of to come into existence since before Equestria's founding."
Luna nodded. "She's right about that," she said. "Come with me, if you don't mind. I don't think we should be talking about this out in the open."
Cadance nodded. "My rooms would be best," she said.
They walked in silence until Cadance had shown her in, and sealed the door behind her. While she did so, Luna looked around, noting her niece's choice in style, and also the guest she had. "This is Ray, I take it?" she asked, peering at the lizard in the terrarium, who calmly looked back out at her. "He's cute."
Cadance nodded, and smiled. "He stays in my rooms whenever I'm gecko-sitting for Sunset," she said.
Luna smiled back at her. "It must be nice, having a companion like him," she said.
Then she turned more serious. "But going back to what I was saying before," she said. "What my sister most likely didn't tell you was that long ago, when our world was young, there was a great and terrible war with the alicorns on one side and the draconequui on the other. Celestia and I both fought alongside our kin in it in the twilight of that horrid conflict, and it left terrible scars on both of us... and on the plane of that battlefield." She sighed. "That war changed the two of us and the world in ways you cannot begin to imagine, Cadance. We lost both our parents, and nearly every friend we'd ever known."
Cadance's ears flattened. "I'm sorry for your loss," she said quietly.
Luna nodded. "We know we will see them again someday," she said. "When the time is right. But it was during the leadup to that war that Celestia and I learned that there was a greater order to existence, and that she and I were a part of it. As is Discord, along with many, many others. Those who were a part of this order are... special. We each have our own Roles and Duties."
"And... how many of these 'Roles' are there?" Cadance asked.
"Over forty that I personally know of," Luna said. "But less than fifty. The majority come in pairs, save for one in particular who balances themself without requiring an Opposite. But of those Opposites, some can work well together, and some don't. I... currently hold two of those Roles, and have two Opposites, one for each."
Cadance nodded. "I see. I think."
Luna smiled. "One of my Opposites is a stallion with whom I have a neutral relationship. I met him a long time ago, and we were able to make an arrangement, which I still hold true to. But the other Role I hold... it is what allows me to guide the moon and bring on the night, while the pony whose Role is its Opposite has the Duty of guiding the sun and bringing forth the day."
Cadance started. "Aunt Celestia?"
"Exactly," Luna said. "Some of the other Roles are less... dramatic, shall we say. Those who hold them merely have to act as they normally would to fulfill their Duties, whether they know of them or not. I have met some of the others like us, both those who know their Roles and those who do not, and for the most part we have a positive relationship."
Cadance frowned for a moment, and then suddenly her eyes widened. "You think I'm one of these beings, don't you?" she said.
"I know you are one," Luna said. "I could tell from the moment I first laid eyes on you. And from all I have seen and heard, you carry out your Duties well. I am not trying to flatter you, dear niece, merely speaking the truth." She sighed. "Even though I no longer bear Honesty, a direct result of my falling-out with my sister, my years of holding it left their mark on me."
She gazed at Cadance. "I cannot tell you much more on the subject, and my sister is similarly limited; no doubt she would have told you when she felt you were ready, and when she wasn't so worried about my return. But given that the matter of Discord and his future escape has come up recently, I felt you should know at least some of this sooner rather than later."
Cadance nodded understandingly. "May I presume that telling somepony their exact Role before they have grown into it is against the rules?" she asked.
Luna nodded back. "Precisely," she said, pleased at Cadance's logic. "Doing so with a pony or other being too soon could compromise their growth into their Role, and that is something neither I or my sister will risk. But, I feel that if you continue acting as you have been, staying true to yourself, then eventually deeper truths related to your Role will be revealed to you. Once that happens, we can talk about it in more detail."
Cadance nodded and smiled at her. "I just have two more things to ask then," she said. "Aunt Celestia recently told me of the Elements of Harmony and their part in confining Discord, and the ponies whom she believes are the next to hold them. Are their bearers the holders of some of these special Roles too?"
"They are," Luna said. "I once held three, and my sister the other three, until they left us both a thousand years ago. Soon, they will reawaken in their new Bearers."
"And... does that mean that Sunset and Twilight are meant to one day have their own Roles too?" Cadance asked.
Luna smiled. "Yes," she said. "I can feel it in these old bones that both of them will be coming into their own soon, when the time is right. One will join her five friends, the other will have a different but no less important Role. And when it does... Celestia is going to be in for quite a happy surprise when she sees which of them is which."
Then she looked serious. "I am telling you now, Cadance, that for the most part, only those of us who are of this greater order are allowed to know of it. You are free to tell my sister all that I have shared, for instance. Trusted friends and family can be filled in later, if the need is great enough - Shining Armor will one day learn of yours, I have no doubt. But otherwise, we must keep the full truth hidden from the populace at large. There are undoubtedly those who would attempt to claim our powers for themselves by force if they knew of them, and there would be horrific consequences if they did so."
Cadance nodded. "I understand," she said.
"Good." Luna smiled. "Thank you for listening to me, Cadance."
Cadance smiled. "Thank you for telling me about this, Aunt Luna," she said. Then she sighed. "I've asked Aunt Celestia what I was meant to do, one day; I never had any intention of taking your place. Even without knowing what I do now, I don't think I could have taken your place in Equestria if I had wanted to. But she's always just said I'd find out when my time came."
Luna nodded. "My sister has that unfortunate habit," she said. "In my experience, she prefers to let others find their own path rather than just telling them... ironic, given she and I were each given the chance to see what could have been our futures, and have in part been letting what we saw influence us since then. It was that incident that inspired me to meet with Trojan and have a talk with him about what could have been, to avoid the fate I saw for myself." She shook her head. "Though it only helped to some extent; I still wound up spending a thousand years on the moon, albeit under very different circumstances from what I initially saw."
Cadance looked at her, her expression suddenly very serious. "And did you see... me?" she asked quietly.
Luna nodded. "I saw glimpses of you," she admitted. "Or at least of an alicorn matching your description. But those initial views were so far off that I could not be certain of when and how she would come to be."
And that was the truth; it had taken her several more looks at this new, younger alicorn before she was certain of what she was seeing.
"Based on what I saw, you have many potential paths ahead of you," she said. "Though I am certain of one thing."
"What's that?" Cadance asked.
"That you have a bright future," Luna said. "Some parts won't be easy, and you will face challenges, made to test you just as my sister and I were. But I have faith that you will make the right choices when the time comes." She smiled, and would have said more, except there was suddenly a knock on the door.
Sighing, Luna looked at her niece. "That will probably be a messenger from Celestia, saying she is ready to respond to my terms," she said. "We'll talk more later, I hope."
Cadance nodded, and together the two left the room.
A short while later, Luna entered the negotiation room alone again. Cadance had promised to wait for her outside, which Luna had appreciated.
As the doors sealed behind her though, Luna nearly froze as she saw the look on Celestia's face. It was not the same, uncertain look she'd seen beforehand. There was confidence once more and an air of shrewdness around her.
"I thank you for giving me the time to review your proposals, Director Luna," Celestia said in a perfectly neutral tone, using her title for the first time. "Though I do wish you had given me the actual ones as none of what you had previously said can be done."
Luna opened her mouth to snap back but Celestia simply continued on. "You are asking me to step down as a ruler and yet you remain in your position of leadership, leaving Equestria in the hands of ponies that unfortunately care more for themselves than others. That is already a nonnegotiable term in any future dealings between you and I. Secondly, Director, if you wish to integrate your followers with Equuis, you will need to first explain to me something as I will more than likely be your most receptive audience in the international stage."
"And what, pray tell, do I need to explain to you," Luna shot back, trying to keep control over her anger at being forced into a corner like this once again, with her sister bullying her into a place she did not like.
"Explain to me what does an isolated group of ponies need such powerful weaponry for?" Celestia's tone dug straight into Luna, with her wings twitching that her sister no doubt saw.
"We have the right to see to our own defenses, Princess," Luna said hotly, though she felt she was already losing control of the meeting. This was not how it was supposed to go.
"You are isolated from the rest of the world, Director. There are no enemies for you to fight, so explain to me, why do you need plasma-based weapons," Celestia shot at Luna, staring hard at her. "The only foes that could pose a risk to your followers would come from the Gateway on the moon and we sealed it a long time ago."
"I do not need to explain myself to you," Luna snorted in anger, too furious to voice her full suspicions at the moment.
"There are only two logical reasons that you would develop such an armament; either you are truly lawless up there," Luna could not help the crack of thunder that came from that accusation but it was all that Celestia needed for her next point to land even harder. "Or you were planning to use it against your foes."
"You dare claim that we would wage war against Equuis?" Luna slammed her hooves into the table, outraged at her sister's words.
"Not directly, but you were without a doubt preparing for the possible outcome, and undoubtedly taking no measures to downplay your prowess in front of my ponies who are already suspicious, scared and untrusting of new things, to say nothing of those who have been painted as monsters for years on end," Celestia fired back. "I know you would never fire the first shot as it would rob you of the high ground that you and your followers cherish so dearly; that of being the victims from a thousand years ago so you can claim you are nobler and greater than everypony else. But if you could provoke others, then you can claim your vindication through conquest and show of pure military force against your perceived ancient foes."
"Why would we want to conquer anything of your primitive nation," Luna growled, glaring daggers at her opponent. "There is nothing you have to offer to us we do not already have or that we do far better than your nation does."
"Ponies," Celestia said, cutting the air out of Luna's anger and addressing her greatest worry. "You are of a closed and diminishing genetic pool. You cannot have much more generations before all of your followers will be connected to one another and then genetic faults will begin to appear. You will need fresh blood to ensure that does not happen and you will need it far sooner than later. That and resources. You don't have the endless access we do here and your means to getting them is limited. You must have made massive progress with what you have done already, but like your genetic pool, it must be dwindling and you cannot afford to pass the chance to gather more to further your space program."
Luna glared hateful eyes at her, finding herself on the backend of a deal with Celestia once again. "What are your proposed terms, then."
"An end to your weapons production, opening your moon to the world and the sharing of information with the rest of us as starters," Celestia said. "I understand you cannot give us all your secrets; I am not that blind to the dangers of giving a pony like Blueblood the means of producing one of your rifles. But perhaps supervised demonstrations and management of your basic means of production, agriculture and energy as starters."
Luna's eyes blazed with outrage at these demands. "You mean to tie us to Equuis and Equestria, force my nation to become subservient to yours when we are already about to leave," she said, glaring at Celestia before shaking her head. "This proposal is as insulting as it is dangerous for my citizens. You would demand that we give up the means to defend ourselves, and do not dare deny that is not the end goal of your absurd request that we stop producing our weapons, and yet place my ponies among those whom you already claim to be untrusting and conniving and expect them not to be attacked one more? No I do not think that will work, and especially not as long as you refuse to accept my nation as a nation. Do not think I have not noticed you have avoided all attempts to address my ponies as my citizens, my nation by its name and our destiny as our own. You view the Lunar Republic as an offshoot of Equestria, a colony that you can order around, me as a sister you can simply tell what to do." Luna glared at her, shaking her head in anger and disgust. "I had hoped that a thousand years would be enough to change you but I was wrong."
"And I had hoped you would have changed as well; grow up and stop playing the martyr," Celestia fired back. "Even when you had your own followers, you still felt and acted as if you were unloved and unwanted, putting yourself on a damn high pedestal of being the helpless victim and yet at the same time being vicious enough to demand the heads of innocents-"
"Do NOT call them innocent; they attacked my followers and me!" Luna shouted, ignoring the doors being slammed open and the ponies rushing in. "Your own sister and you took their side!"
"For the Creators' sake Luna," Celestia grumbled loudly in anger, her hoof to her face. "We have laws and duty to uphold the order. Do you think I could have honestly allowed you to kill them without due justice?"
"The fact you see that you had to allow me to do my job as co-ruler of this damnable nation meant I was never your equal," Luna growled. "That night was the final straw; you proved I had no true authority here. That Equestria was your nation, with you pretending I had any place in it. You never had faith in me then and I don't believe you have any now."
"So what was I supposed to let you do, let you kill all those who disagreed with you and become known as a bloodthirsty tyrant?" Celestia shouted, with the room a mixture of burning heat and freezing cold as the two sisters glared at each other before a beeping sound was heard in the room, with all of the Lunar ponies looking at their wrists.
In an instant, the mood changed and Celestia saw her sister pale as she read the message with her other leaders staring in shock and horror as they read their screens.
"Luna, what's wrong?" she asked softly, moving closer to her, with her outrage forgotten in a second.
"There was a terrorist attack; one of the domes is seriously damaged and I am stuck here-" her sister began to rant before Celestia dashed over, laying her horn over Luna's to transfer the magical energies she would need to teleport the long distance from the planet to the moon. Luna blinked up in surprise; clearly moved beyond words. "Sister..." she said in a hushed tone.
"Your people need you now, go to them," Celestia said with all the warmth in her heart for her. "If you need any help, it shall be given."
Luna smiled at her, truly smiled at her and pulled her into a hug she had not experienced in a very long time. "Thank you, sister dear," she whispered to her before pulling back and turning to her Directors. "Director Plate, please arrange for one of your officers to take charge of our guard representatives here for until we return. Director Spice, Director Inkwell and Director Light, we go back as soon as Director Plate is finished."
The stallion nodded his head and quickly spoke to a guard who gave a salute to her superior before the married unicorn walked to Luna's side. With a concentrated face, Luna flashed Celestia a smile before she teleported back to the moon, taking her four fellow Directors with her.
When the five Lunarians had vanished, there was an immediate flurry of noise as the ponies still present began to clamor with questions, until Celestia's nostrils flared and she bellowed, "Quiet!"
Her use of the Royal Canterlot Voice startled them into silence, and she immediately began looking around, choosing her next words carefully.
"I do not know who was responsible for the act that required my sister's sudden return," she said. "But whomever it was, her ponies' lives are in danger. And no matter the differences between Luna and I, I do not wish to see the Lunarians come to any harm." She sighed, suddenly feeling very tired.
"Is there anything else we can do to help?" Cadance asked, sounding worried.
"Not at the moment," Celestia said. "None of us can travel to the moon at this time. All we can do is wait, and pray that my sister and her ponies are successful in repairing the damage that these terrorists caused in time. But if Luna calls for our aid, we shall give it as best we can."
Turning to the pegasus mare whom Director Plate had left in charge, she asked, "Your name, officer?"
"Sergeant Nightingale, your highness," the mare replied, sounding a bit suspicious.
Celestia nodded, then turned to her own commander. "Captain Sentry, I trust you to liaise with the Sergeant and her troops," she said. "Give them whatever aid you feel necessary as they request it. And keep me informed if my sister or her people contact us again, for any reason. My niece and I are going to my office for now."
Captain Sentry saluted. "Yes, your highness!"
Leaving him to handle things, Celestia beckoned Cadance to follow her, and the two headed for Celestia's office. Once Celestia had sealed the door behind them, she sat down with a sigh.
"What do you think happened?" Cadance asked softly.
Celestia looked down. "I don't know for sure," she said. "Whomever was though, I can only hope they were a homegrown threat who can be dealt with quickly and easily, and not one of the worst-case scenarios I am currently imagining."
"Meaning?" Cadance asked a bit sharply now. She sounded annoyed, and Celestia couldn't blame her. "Is this related to the 'greater order to existence' Aunt Luna told me about, that you didn't?"
Celestia looked at her. "It is... possible," she admitted. "How much did she tell you?"
Cadance explained everything about the general situation Luna had told her of, and Celestia nodded when she was done. "Luna was right, for the most part," she said. "She also left a few things out, and justifiably so. But given the circumstances, there is one I should tell you now."
Cadance looked at her intently, and Celestia continued. "In the time before the War, there was a Gateway on Equuis's moon, similar to but different from the one you already know of - the one Sunset fled through, which could only be opened on a time cycle. The one on the moon, however, leads somewhere else, somewhere... very different. It was open full-time until Luna and I sealed it after the War, long before Equestria's founding." She sighed. "One of the scenarios I fear is that someone has managed to unlock it again. If that happened, both our worlds could be in grave danger, depending on who else has access to the world it leads to; this would essentially give them a back door into our world, and if they are hostile..." She trailed off, then sighed. "Mind, not all whom I know to have had access to it in the past were enemies, but the chances of that being the case are still too high for my comfort."
"And the other scenario?" Cadance asked.
Celestia bowed her head. "The other is that... one of our number is somehow responsible; we have been largely divided into two groups since the Creation, with others following a third path that is largely neutral, but can align with either of the first two groups if they so choose."
Cadance nodded again, so Celestia kept going. "The Laws governing us forbid those of one group from acting directly against those of the other, but using proxies is permitted," she said. And if that is what has happened, then the result could be just as catastrophic as a reopening of the Gateway. Which is why I am hoping neither of these is the case. A disgruntled mortal is the best-case scenario, one that can be dealt with quickly and easily without risking the type of damage that either of the other two would cause."
Cadance nodded, then looked worried again. "I hope Sunset's safe up there," she said. "And everypony else."
Celestia's heart tightened. "So do I, Cadance," she said quietly. "So do I."
Well I like this chapter.
10845956
Thanks
"why do your ponies have plasma weapons Luna?"
Luna:
i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/eb/0c/adeb0c4689f6cdfb1ba811422efc3bf2.jpg
"For the aliens you freaking moron, billions upon trillions of stars and you think WE are the only ones out there, let alone the only ones to achieve space travel!? "
"Have you forgotten the gate as well, yes its closed now! What if it opens sister, and some foul terror from beyond this universe slips through. Are my ponies not allowed to defend them selves! No to you, it would be better if we were but cattle for slaughter!"
"Let them devour us while you scramble to form some limp hoofed defense!?"
"Pull your horn from thy plot Sister, not everything is about you!" *bitch slap*
Wow, that was a real twisty turny discussion with pretty severe reversals! Just like true siblings!! Although, I have to admit to being a bit surprised at how quickly Celestia donated magic to Luna when the call came.
Gah, the suspense of what's happening up there is just killing me!! And only me, hopefully. Although, now that I think about it, if the Lunar Republic was suddenly forced to abandon the moon and return to Equestria enmasse....? That would DEFINITELY complicate the negotiations!
I love this Luna, a proper leader of her own accord. Celestia can go and kiss her arse.
10846006
(Seriously, that phrasing... )
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
Shush, this needs to happen
No it won't, but you two are finally starting to take some steps forward
A bit too much in my opinion
Wow, a terrorist attack did more for peace then the quote unquote peace talks have until now
It's easy to see both Celestia and Luna’s side in their argument if you just stop and give what they say som thought.
However I also feel like the biggest problem is that they both refuse to give an inch, convinced that they are right and the other is wrong, and both refusing to try to find a middle ground.
Now then, let's see the dark side of the moon
Oh, so Luna gets to mock and insult Celestia and demand that the ruler of a sovereign nation step down purely to appease Luna's prejudices and desires (after complaining that Celestia doesn't treat the NRL as its own nation, too boot), but when Celestia shows anger at this treatment, then Celestia is in the wrong?
Celestia has a valid point there ... and even if the "Gate" or possible aliens made developing plasma weapons a self-defense concern, there was absolutely no reason to bring them to Equestria were Luna knows the most advanced weapon is a crude black-powder cannon and most soldiers are equipped with spears.
A "homegrown" threat willing to make terrorist attack so bad it requires the Head Director's presence to deal with it? From the NRL with its so superior and "harmonious" culture? Unlikely.
10846183
Yes, there's some inspiration from the basic concept of Luna forming her own kingdom on the moon (I know of at least one other discontinued series besides ours to have done something with the concept), but as has been stated multiple times in these reviews, it's just the base concept that was an inspiration; we have plans that will take this in a very different direction. (And while I haven't read the story that people keep saying this must have been inspired by and don't know Blueblood's role there, I can say he's just a minor player, comparatively speaking, in this story - already out of the way and not an issue anymore as far as I'm aware.)
As for "knowing spoilers and future events", that's part of the greater cosmology of the multiverse this story is set in, and she doesn't know everything; a large part of her actions are driven by knowing the generalities of what's coming for her world, based on patterns that tend to repeat across multiple worlds (plus specific variants from a few that stuck with her). And at this point, there's no way for her to look again, and never was any way for her to see her own specific future, so she's still relying on old information. Luna's actions have already derailed at least part of that plot, so there's no Nightmare Moon, and there are still some other things that may or may not happen.
10846217
It was more the extreme physical reaction that was the issue here. Anger can be expected, but Celestia reaching the point of physical violence is why Luna decided to cut things short and give her time to calm down.
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
Huh guess all it took for both sisters to see eye-to-eye (for the moment) was a terrorist attack!
While I can understand both of their points, they still have huge egos that need to be beaten down if they wanna move forward!
Luna basically just declared war. She told a foreign head of state that she is dead set on deposing them.
I'm honestly surprised things went as well as they did. This version of Celestia is neither rational nor kind, and both of them have so very recently proven that they'd be willing to start a war over far more minor matters.
The fact is, if their guards had been any less disciplined, they'd already be at war because the events of Chapter 20 could easily have sent them spiraling into open conflict before Cadence had a chance to shout at them. The weapons were already out and set to be used well before Cadence stepped in, it would only have taken one twitchy pony to send everything straight to Hell.
I do note, still, that non-Cadence alicorns seem dead set on viewing other ponies as tools. The way Luna talks about crafting a successor is how one describes a blacksmith turning raw materials into finished objects, not how one talks about a teacher helping a student grow, and for all that Celestia got pissed off, I don't have the impression that was the part she objected to.
I have to step away before reading the rest of the chapter, I'm gonna post this and hope that nothing after that break invalidates what I've said.
10848170
It's also been said (in chapter 14) that she's tried to leave her own post as a head of state in the past, but couldn't because nopony else would take the job and it couldn't be left vacant. This is, in many ways, an extension of that. And chapter 20 gives away what she hopes for Celestia to be doing after all of this; she just hasn't told Celestia about that part yet.
Can't say much more for spoiler reasons. But what comes next should be... interesting.
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
Well shit thats a good point damn, I mean keeping basically superweapons for seemingly no strategic reason seems like a complete waste of resources that the Lunar Republic says it needs. Kinda stupid unless they were planning to use said weapons. Also, if someone replies to this saying "Oh well they needed it to keep up the law". One, it was stated plethora of times that the moon had shockingly low crime rates, and using these weapons for police is like a Police officer taking gattling guns and tanks to a crime scene. Kinda overkill and not worth it.
10845994
What aliens? There were no mention of alien invasions and the like, if that were the case weaposn productions would probably start later on.
10848170
Yeah. the alicorn sisters are asshats in this story, basically just Europeans pre-world war 2, basically pick a time with war and strife and yeah basically them. Even if someone makes the point that yeah, Luna's nation is incredibly advanced, magic was said to grow in the same rate as the tech on Lunas nation. So, it is reasonable to assume if a war were to break out Equestria would easily be able to defend, and since Luna cant really invade without teleporting herself down, which would most definitely risk herself for fatal injuries, she would only be able to send small amounts of ponies down. Same goes for Equestria.
10849109
Not in those specific words. But Onyx Plate himself says in chapter 21:
So yeah. They're armed for hostile extraterrestrials, just as a matter of precaution.
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
10849109
cant remember who but some one did hint that that is the reason they have plasma based weapons for when they venture into the void they may encounter something not so friendly
EDIT: AnonrMouseJr highlight the part
10849180
thanky you
Celestia was right (feels weird to say that.). You make weapons to defend yourself sure, but the only reason you make bigger far more powerful weapons than anyone else is because you fear the other side and want to be ready to strike first. Terrible, vicious cycle. You can look to all of history for this.
That being said I am intrigued by a possible lunar aggressor since we know so little about their society other than what the leaders have said.
10849466
True, since the Lunarians are detached from the rest of the world, they do not need to develop such weaponry. Luna did mention the Republic's ambition of interstellar travel, which would require a ton of resources that I doubt the moon alone can provide. Interstellar travel also doesn't guarantee the travellers that they would find what they want, in this case, resources.
Well, let's see how this pans out. Whether it develops for the ill or the better, I'm looking forward to it.
...Eh, still side with the Lunarians. Mostly cuz I've always believed Luna shouldn't have returned as diarch in the actual show after her reformation.
10849466
Luna is still, a thousand years after the fact, openly pissed off that there were trials instead of summary executions. Anyone who left Equestria with her to found the lunar society shared that grievance. An entire culture built on a cornerstone of favoring swift and bloody vengeance over due process.
I can imagine so many different ways that could lead to violent terrorist attacks, and the suspense over which one it will turn out to actually be is . . . well, I'm figuratively on the edge of my seat.
I have noticed a divide between Luna and the rest of the people in charge, though. I get the impression she's the only one of the leaders who is still actively holding grudges vis a vis Equestria, we even saw them reigning in her hostility earlier, and that could apply to other aspects of society as well. We know that Luna still thinks summary execution was the right call, but (unless I'm forgetting something) we haven't seen any of the others weigh in on issues related to policing one's population.
If I'm right that Luna's underlings are more moderate than she is on matters of life, death, and diplomacy, this could be a reflection of progress on the part of the lunar culture. Luna is the only one of the original founders still around, everyone else in leadership roles was born to a culture separated from that foundation by centuries.
10849180
If that were the case, they wouldn't be carrying the weapons around with them.
When you make weapons you don't intend to use, you don't hand them out to your police force, and you certainly don't give them the delegations you send to foreign countries. Them using their weapons as they do if said weapons are only intended for use against hostile extraterrestrials would be like the Cold War US and USSR equipping every police car with a suitcase nuke just in case.
This is not to say that they couldn't have been created with hostile extraterrestrials in mind, because they absolutely could have, but - regardless of what they were originally intended for - that's very visibly not what the armament is for in the now.
Moreover, if they're seriously giving guards weapons they originally intended only for use in open war against a hostile power, they're treating their own people as the enemy, which is a sure sign that their policing forces have lost sight of the fact their duty is to protect instead of control.*
The picture painted is more negative, not less, if the weapons really were intended for aliens when they were developed. It'd be a point in favor of certain sociological theories, which argue that weapons - once made - will end up being used even if their intended purpose never actually materializes, but a major point against the lunar society.
10848671
True, but that does nothing to reduce the hostility of the declaration, it just makes it more petty. She's going to work to depose a foreign leader because if she doesn't want to lead, why should her sister be allowed to lead? It is, so very much, not a point in her favor.
Which, I suppose, was the whole point of this chapter. Celestia and Luna have both been pretty terrible, but Celestia was arguably edging Luna out in the race to be the most terrible alicorn of all before this, and this chapter is the one where Luna makes up for lost ground. They're back to being in a dead heat.
* There is an alternative here, which is that they don't use them at home. I looked back at what Onxy said about their policing practices.
The picture he painted is unlikely to be accurate, given that it would have left the Lunar ponies with no concept of real life terrorism, and Luna said, "There was a terrorist attack," far too easily for someone who spent the last thousand years around ponies for whom that term could only be the matter of darkest speculative fiction.
That having been said, if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of what he said was accurate . . . he didn't actually say much. There's no clear indication, one way or the other, whether they actually carry these things at home. So, maybe they don't. That would change things significantly, but not in a particularly positive way.
That lack of positivity is sort of a trend, but only because carrying around immolation machines isn't particularly positive in general, regardless of how one spins it. Plasma has all kinds of positive applications, weaponry isn't really one of them.
Anyway, if they don't use their plasma weapons at home, that means they would have actively chosen to bring them to Equestria. They would have needed to decide that a visit to Equestria was one where the ability to kill a lot of ponies with great speed and effectiveness was needed. They would have had to ask themselves, "Will we need to slaughter these primitive folks - who still wear plate armor and use swords and spears - en masse?" and answered with, "Yup. That totally sounds like something we'd do."
It's not good look. It's like meeting with people for whom "armor" means "mildly thick leather" armor and "weapons" means "sticks and/or stones" and deciding that your party needs to equipped with plenty of AK-47s. If you're not actively hoping for conflict, you're planning on intimidating them into doing whatever you demand, because this is not how one meets with an equal for a peace talk; it's how one puts a lesser in their place.
I'm open to someone pointing out something better, but the most positive interpretation I can come up with is that the Lunar ponies made such weapons purely because they could, and brought them to Equestria solely because lunar security brings them everywhere.
It's not completely positive --they come across as a slightly less extreme version of absent minded genius who invents doomsday devices without ever pondering the implications-- but it avoids the two biggest pitfalls. It doesn't have them using high grade military hardware against their own people, which is what the "Aliens" theory says if the do use the weapons at home, and neither does it have them deciding to break out the high grade military hardware for a diplomatic visit to a place whose arms and armor leave it completely uncalled for.
10858542
I think you are missing some key information here. Allow me to quote one of our All There in the Manual posts from the forum in the FIMFiction group for the The Powers That Be multiverse, in which this story takes place:
Relating to this:
One set of Opposites is Day and Night. In pretty much all universes, Luna is the Lady of Night (and later Lady of Dreams). Her Opposite in that role is her sister Celestia, as the Lady of Day. (Except in those worlds where genders are inverted and the local Luna and Celestia are stallions instead - Artemis and Solaris, the Lord of Night and Lord of Day respectively.) They attained these positions at pretty much the same time.
But in this series, Luna states that she has been planning, when the time comes, to abdicate her role as Lady of Night. Her ponies are planning to leave their solar system, and she's going with them, but she can't keep up her duties of raising and lowering Equuis's moon from outside the solar system; therefore she needs a replacement for that Role.
Her main grievance has always been that Celestia has never admitted that the way her supporters were treated was a problem, never acknowledged her as a true equal, and certainly wouldn't treat a new Lord or Lady of Night as an equal. From Luna's experience, Celestia would force the new Lord or Lady and the nation they represent into becoming her subordinates, and Luna will not stand for that. She's demanding that Celestia give up her role as Lady of Day and step down alongside her so a new generation can take over for both of them, and be true equals who can actually work together.
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
It's not stable. Or, to put it another way, that "for the moment" is the key bit.
Peace talks are messy and slow and difficult, but the reason they're that way is because they're intended to last. Coming together in the face of a disaster is easy, but it has an expiration date. When the disaster is . . . it's not even when it's over. That would be far too optimistic. When the disaster is no longer the primary concern, which may well happen while it's still ongoing, all of the things that had people at odds to begin with are still there, which means the two sides are just as far apart. Actually, that's overly optimistic too, it's more accurate to say that they'll be at least as far apart as they were pre-disaster.
The things that prevented the peace talks from reaching actual peace will still be there, and they might even have been exacerbated in the time during which the talks were put on hold to deal with the disaster.
There's also the fact that immediate aid is pretty simple to give, which makes it very unlike negotiating, both in the real world and in the story. Celestia heads over and gives Luna the magic she needs to return to where she's needed and that's it. Simple, easy, done.
While it helped her in this specific instance, when it comes to diplomatic goals, Luna doesn't want Celestia to give her magic. Luna doesn't want Celestia to give her resources. Luna doesn't even want Celestia to give her ponies --this even though her people are in dire need of fresh genetics-- Luna wants Celestia to give up both her position and power and also, if possible, to admit that summary executions are better than trials. The first point is one she was originally circumspect about, the second is the one she's been upfront about, to the point that she made it openly to the potential Element Bearers before they set off to visit the moon, and it was what she was arguing with Celestia about right up until the news of the terrorist attack arrived.
A terrorist attack isn't going to make Celestia budge on either issue. It'll probably do the opposite, honestly.
Unreasonable emotion driven people tend to latch onto interpretations which reinforce their preconceived notions. The Celestia in this story, like the Luna in this story, is an unreasonable emotion driven person. The most likely way for her to interpret this event is one which fits the narrative she's constructed in her head.
The moon was without an alicorn for how long and it's already had a major terrorist attack? Rationally, the two may be entirely unrelated (or not, we need more information) but you couldn't ask for a better way bolster Celestia's belief that she's right about mortal ponies needing an immortal ruler giving them direct and immediate oversight.
Likewise, a major terrorist attack potentially brings up questions about the efficacy of the lunar government, which in turn could vindicate Celestia's belief that law and order are superior to . . . I'm gonna go with "blood and vengeance", but feel free to insert your own description of summary executions without due process or even the illusion of it. (Luna didn't even want show trials, she wanted to skip right to the killing.)
Basically, if this isn't a direct result of contact between Equestria and the Lunar Republic, then it happening in the short time the two have been in contact implies that terrorist attacks are fairly frequent on the moon, so unless Equestria has the same, Celestia will likely see this as a point against Luna's approach.
Even if they aren't frequent, a terrorist attack has just threatened one sixth of the Lunar Republic, possibly more depending on how much the other domes depend on whichever dome was targeted, so unless Equestria has equally expansive terrorist attacks, Celestia may well see this as evidence that Luna's approach is inferior.
Luna got to build a society from scratch, peopled only with ponies who supported her so strongly that they'd give up their very world for her, and isolated from any enemies. Celestia, conversely, was faced with something that already had a long tradition that didn't necessarily favor her, had to take all comers regardless of whether or not they supported her rule, and was surrounded on all sides by nations that seriously got together and and signed a, "We'll destroy you and yours if Luna ever strikes again," treaty. Resources were obviously a huge problem, but socially and politically, Luna was coasting by on easy mode. This still happened.
Is that a fair way to frame it? No. Not remotely.
This version of Celestia isn't fair. She sees what she wants to see, and provided this isn't the doing of one of her ponies or eldritch forces from from beyond, a terrorist attack would fit perfectly into every "Luna is wrong" narrative she's ever told herself.
Even if Celestia doesn't interpret the attack in a way that supports her pre-existing beliefs, it's supremely unlikely that it'll change Celestia or Luna's perspective. There are only really three ways this could lead directly to lasting peace more quickly than would have been achieved through negotiation in its absence. They're not exactly happiness and rainbows.
If the attack damaged the Lunar Republic so much that they now require Equestrian cooperation to survive, Luna's position re: negotiations will be weakened and she'll no longer be able to make the end of Celestia's reign a non-negotiable demand. If the attack was carried out by an Equestrian, Celestia's position will be weakened, and she'll have to seriously consider Luna's demand that she be deposed. Those are both pretty simple shifts in the power dynamic between the two alicorns, the last possibility isn't.
If the attack originated from outside an force that Equestria and the Lunar Republic will be forced to form an alliance against that, in itself, would change basically nothing. It's just a longer disaster for them to pull together during, and it'd no more make them see eye to eye than the second World War made the Americans and Soviets agree on everything that came to pass after September of 1945. Defeating a common enemy isn't something that's done in isolation, though, and it's impossible to tell exactly what the process will involve.
That process, rather than common enemy itself, has the potential to change things. If it's long, traumatic, or otherwise life changing enough, Celestia and Luna might see their decision making paradigms shift. Maybe Celestia will decide she wants to retire, in which case Luna then gets what she wants without conflict. Maybe Luna will decide that being pissed off by a refusal to stand by and do nothing in the face of a planned extra-judicial mass killing isn't legitimate cause to depose a foreign ruler, in which case her non-starter demand evaporates.
Or, you know, maybe one of them gets their head mounted on a pike. "War changes people/ponies," is not a particularly happy concept, after all, so dark outcomes would be fairly likely in this eventuality.
There is a key point that's omitted in the above, though. If Equestrians were behind the terrorist attack, that would weaken Celestia's position if ponies believed it. They very well might not.
Celestia is certainly open to considering the possibility, but there are almost certainly limits to what she's willing to believe. If Luna said that Sunset went on a killing spree and the lunar ponies couldn't stop her from damaging the dome because she was using foals as pony shields, for example, Celestia would probably call bullshit and refuse to believe.
That's a purposefully extreme example, but there are lesser things Celestia would likely disbelieve, and if she doesn't believe the official story, things don't bode particularly well for negotiations. Disbelieving what she's told would necessarily raise the question of what the hidden truth were, and there's a whopper of a conspiracy theory waiting to happen that's just been delivered to Celestia on a silver platter.
The timing of the attack is convenient for Luna. She'd been told under no uncertain terms that she wouldn't get the concessions she demanded, after a long streak of things going her way Celestia was suddenly the one scoring all the points, Luna doing her own little "crack of thunder" negated any advantage she might have been seen to had as result of prodding Celestia into having one eariler, she loudly laid out a model of leadership in which ponies like her can kill off lesser ponies outside the bounds of the law, and suddenly news comes out of an attack that just happens to give her the leverage she needs to push things back in a direction that favors her?
Do I think Luna is staging this? Not remotely. Do I think Equestrians might reach that conclusion? Absolutely. Celestia more than most.
Luna just came out, repeatedly, in favor of executing civilians without bothering to check if they're guilty or not. She literally said that extrajudicial murder was her job. She further said that Celestia not signing off on the mass killings was proof that they weren't equals, which is either complete bad faith or a Luna claiming that she would have allowed Celestia to kill off her own followers without trial had the situation been reversed. She said that one who doesn't have the power to kill civilians without due process has "no true authority".
All of that, taken together, makes the possibility of Luna attacking her own people for political gain just plausible enough to present a credibility problem for her.
Breaking that down in
a bita lot more detail...If she's arguing in bad faith, then nothing she says can be trusted regardless. It completely undercuts all negotiations and casts doubt on everything she says. It'd be all the reason anyone would ever need to doubt her if she claimed that an Equestrian harmed her people. If she's arguing in good faith, then that means that she's been holding a thousand year grudge because she legitimately would have allowed Celestia to kill off her own followers if things had been the other way around, and she's very, very pissed off that Celestia didn't do the same for her. Or, shorter version: either she's lying through her teeth, or she thinks of her followers as disposable.
In either case, the Equestrians she wanted to kill off without due process were her subjects right up until quit her job as princess by relocating to the moon, which was after she'd already decided she wanted to kill them off without trial. That means that, while what she thinks about her followers depends on whether she's speaking in good faith or not, we know for a fact that she doesn't think her subjects are entitled to due process. Due process before being killed by the state becomes a privilege, instead of a right, and she's seriously fractured a nation rather rule a country where she can't revoke that privilege at will.
Provided she hasn't been using mind control on her ponies, there's nothing she could have done that would eliminate all dissent for a full thousand years, so she'll have subjects who aren't direct followers. That means that she'll definitely have ponies on
handhoof that she has no problem of killing off without trial. We don't, it should be noted, know if any of them stand accused of anything which Luna deems worthy of death, but this isn't really about knowledge; it's about emotions.People are not fully rational actors, and they have a tendency tend to judge a whether a source is credible on whether it feels credible to them. Celestia and Luna have been driven by emotion to the outright exclusion of reason this whole time. In that context, the fact that Luna definitely has ponies she'd be fine with killing without due process is far more important than whether she'd actually kill any of those ponies, because unreasonable doubt is enough to damage someone's credibility and get someone like this Celestia jumping to all the wrong conclusions.
To get to that point, though, we still need a little more. In particular we need to connect the fact that Luna has access to ponies who fall into the "Under the right circumstances, Luna would kill them off without due process" box to something that looks vaguely like the right circumstances being something that she'd employ outside of armed rebellion. That's when we come to her stuff about authority and rulership.
She described killing her subjects without trial as "my job as co-ruler of this damnable nation" and she bristles at the idea that Celestia could even think of the killing in terms of whether or not she would allow Luna to do it. Actually, pause for a second.
Real world talk for a moment.
Being co-ruler is traditionally about allowing or blocking actions of the other co-ruler while having one's own actions allowed or blocked by said co-ruler, but there are definitely other models. The Roman Republic is probably the most prominent example of the traditional version, while the kingship of the Spartan oligarchy was an early exception.
In Rome, if the Consuls disagreed on a matter, nothing got done and the status quo would rule. This was by design, and Rome actually added some additional forms of veto power into the mix, because they would rather keep doing what had worked before than rush headlong into potential folly. Thus they had two Consuls instead of one or three, the better to quash bad policy (by making stalemate the default outcome.)
Short version: gridlock was a feature, not a bug.
The entire point of having two rulers instead of one, for them, was that each could act as a check on the other. If they were Consuls, Celestia blocking Luna's unilateral push for mass execution would be seen as proof that they two were equal, rather than the opposite.
It's worth noting that the Romans recognized that there were situations in which quick responses were more important than avoiding missteps, and so they had the office of dictator. For a period of not more than six months, ideally far less, one person was given the power to do the sort of thing Luna wanted to do and there was (almost) nothing others could do to stop it. It was only possible because the dictator, even if it was one of the Consuls, outranked Consuls.
It's probably not an accident that the Republic died when the time limit on dictatorship was first relaxed and then lifted entirely. Power being concentrated in a single individual is anathema to co-rule.
In Sparta, the kings were more like what Luna is describing, but not by much. One king couldn't veto the other's action, and each was free to enact policy without ever needing the other to sign off on it, which is exactly the way Luna says it should be insofar as it goes, but they were kings, not courts, so they had precisely zero authority to deal with matters like treason, which is the very division of power that Luna finds so loathsome.
This isn't accidental. Because the kings didn't have to agree on matters to do things, there were a whole host of things they couldn't be allowed to do. Dealing with criminals was one of them. So too were civil cases. Actually, almost all non-religious domestic matters were too important to entrust to the two veto-proof kings. Even their generalship of the army, which had been the primary example of kingly authority, eventually had to be watered down severely.
There's a reason that Sparta was an oligarchy, and it wasn't that they liked spreading power around (to thirty five people instead of two.) It was that giving two people the power to act unilaterally is an untenable mess.
There was seriously a case where, on the eve of battle, one king changed his mind and decided to go home. To prevent future kings from giving conflicting orders to the army, the law was changed so that you couldn't have both kings in the field at once. As such, any given war was a one king only affair, which is a huge part of the reason that generalship was the responsibility kings held onto for the longest.
In areas that weren't artificially constrained to one king, the Spartans were forced to perpetually take power away from their dual kings and give it to others. Others who weren't allowed to act unilaterally. The ephors, of which there were five, were a common recipient. The thirty Gerousia (of which the kings were two) was another.
Anyway, under the Roman system of co-rulership, Luna would only have been allowed to kill those she wished to kill over Celestia's objections if she'd been appointed dictator, which would mean that she (temporarily) outranked Celestia. Under the Spartan system, she'd have been laughed out of the room.
Historical examples of dual rulership: fun.
Those tend to be the options for dual rulers with equal scopes. Either they need to agree, in which case one can absolutely block the actions of the other, or (as with the Spartan kings) their authority is watered down as their power is transferred to things more reliable than dual unilateral action.
Dual rulers with unequal scopes are a different matter entirely. In that case it all comes down to whose bailiwick a matter falls into. Celestia and Luna's dispute could have been resolved instantly in that case. Just check who has the authority to do things like determine guilt and decide who lives and dies. If it's Luna (or the victims of the crime in question), Celestia overstepped. If it's Celestia (or the courts), Luna overstepped.
In that case, Luna not being able to carry out the killings would only be a sign she wasn't Celestia's equal if Celestia were intruding on Luna's domain. It would also mean that the courts were, in themselves, an encroachment on Luna's domain. Their very existence would be taking away part of what Luna was legally entitled to.
Then, of course, we'd get into questions of whether a system whereby a single person can summarily execute their subjects is just, but that's has little bearing on whether or not Celestia and Luna were truly equals.
Anyway, back to story-Luna instead of hypothetical-Luna who finds herself in a real world style of dual co-ruling.
Luna already established that she thinks she has the right to kill off (at least some of) her subjects without due process. She did so repeatedly and loudly. That, however, isn't enough to make someone, even someone acting as irrationally as Celestia, think "Maybe this terrorist attack was an inside job." If it could be placed alongside something that suggests Luna would use that right, however, it might. It doesn't have to suggest it strongly --this is all pathos; not logos-- but it does have to at least look vaguely like it could mean that under certain circumstances if one squints.
Thus we come to Luna's stuff about rulership and authority.
Luna described killing ponies without due process as doing her job, and is still pissed off a thousand years later that she wasn't allowed to. This is telling. She isn't making the argument that it was an extreme situation that required an extreme response. She could make that argument, but she's choosing not to. Instead she's arguing, emphatically, that the ability to kill en masse without due process is an intrinsic part of the job of a princess. She even goes further than that and claims that the inability to kill civilians en masse without due process is proof that one has no true authority. It's not just that you're not a true co ruler if you can't have proscriptions, it's that you don't have any authority if you can't.
This isn't the position of some past Luna; present-Luna says that summary execution is the job of a ruler and without it one's authority doesn't exist. Luna is a ruler. That's her job. Luna has authority. Would Luna kill her own ponies without due process? For her, it's in the job description.
Again, these things in no way go together to suggest that Luna actually killed her own ponies in a staged attack in order to undercut Celestia/Equestria's negotiating power, and a reasonable person wouldn't come to that conclusion based on them. We're more than eighty eight thousand words into the Celestia and Luna Are Unreasonable Show, though, and - in that context - they give Celestia all the cause she could ever need to doubt Luna should Luna claim an Equestrian was behind the attack. And, of course, if Celestia did, then all of the goodwill she had before that would twist into hostility, probably with a pinch of deeming herself stupid for ever taking things at face value.
Celestia as portrayed here is absolutely the sort of person who would take umbrage and make things about her with, "I helped you. I worried for you. I told Cadence I was worried one of our ponies might be behind this," if she came to the conclusion that the attack had been carried out on Luna's orders.
Luna did all the heavy lifting by going on at length about how killing ponies is her right and duty, all Celestia needs to do to get from where she is to thinking this is a political machination is to a get a little paranoid and irrational. She's already been both, though possibly not simultaneously.
There's also this huge thing that I've only tangentially mentioned. The foundation their dispute comes down to what would happen if the situation were reversed.
Luna is arguing that she would have let Celestia forgo any trials and execute Luna's ponies. No legal system, no due process, no chance to defend themselves, just, "Feel free to kill my supporters on the basis of you saying that they're clearly guilty." Luna is outraged, a thousand years after the fact, that Celestia didn't extend the same courtesy to her. That, she claims, proves that the two of them were never equals.
Celestia did stop Luna in a situation when Luna wouldn't have stopped Celestia, thus Luna was clearly the lesser princess in the arrangement, and the claim equality was a lie that Celestia tried to gaslight her into believing.
That's the part I touched on earlier. The flip side is just as important.
Celestia is arguing that, had the situation been reversed, Luna should have stopped her. In fact, if this ever comes in the future, she wants Luna to stop her. Or, if not Luna, she wants somepony to stop her, because the action is unacceptable, even for a princess. Just as she stopped Luna and referred to the matter to the courts, which is what she says the courts are for, Luna should have stopped hypothetical Celestia, and would have been justified in doing so, had the shoe been on the other hoof.
As princesses they were equals because Celestia stopped Luna exactly the way Luna should stop Celestia if the inverse ever happens. As ponies, however, Celestia is superior because she wasn't trying to to something that needed to be stopped in the first place.
It's easy to get caught up in the surface emotions here --Luna is outraged that Celestia didn't let her skip the trial and go straight to the execution; Celestia is horrified that Luna thinks of killing ponies without trial as a positive-- but if you distill these positions down, you end up with absurdly different models of leadership and cooperation.
Luna believes that an equal partnership is defined by each partner giving the other carte blanch. Non-interference is the mark of equality, because it means that neither partner ever overrules the other. As for leadership, it's about the power of unilateral action, regardless of what rules or laws may be in place for lesser ponies.
Celestia believes that an equal partnership is defined by each partner following the same set of rules, which necessitates intervention when one of those partners goes outside the bounds of said rules. Enforcing the rules is the mark of equality, because it's the means by which each partner can prevent the other from usurping their place. As for leadership, it's about following and enforcing the rules equally for all ponies, even the ones on top.
These two approaches are never going to mix well. To follow Luna's model of equal partnership is to be in open defiance of Celestia's, and vice versa.
Making sure everyone is playing by the same set of rules is anathema to Luna's version of cooperation. It reeks of one party subjugating the other.
Refusing to be corrected by your cohort is anathema to Celestia's version of cooperation. It reeks of one party cheating while the other plays fair.
This disconnect is huge, and possibly impossible bridge. It's also at the root of their different goals. Celestia wants to bring the moon ponies back into the global community and put everyone on a level playing field. Luna wants to leave the solar system so that she and hers can be forever free of the interference inherent in being a part of that community.
10858652
So in the middle of writing my previous post I had company unexpectedly show up, which took me away from my keyboard for a good long while. As such, I'm only just getting to this now. I'm sure anyone scrolling through these comments will be delighted to know that I don't have nearly as much to say here as I did in the last comment.
Anyway, I think you're selling yourself and your cowriter short. You didn't need to quote from a forum post, Luna laid that all out plainly in the text of the story itself.
Luna made it crystal clear that while she could make a pony her successor without deposing Celestia, she refuses to do so. She then explained in no uncertain terms that this was because she didn't trust any of her possible successors to do anything other than "be taken under [Celestia's] wing and place the Republic's homeworld under the influences of Equestria and have our way of life become corrupted by the people who forced our departure a thousand years ago." It was very clearly laid out with zero ambiguity. No need to crack open the manual; it's all there in the story.
In the very next scene, Luna laid out for Cadence exactly what was meant by "Role" and "Opposite".
The only thing from your comment that's actually new information is that male Luna is named after an ancient Greek goddess while male Celestia has a relatively recent name (it didn't exist as a name pre-20th century), which is derived from a Latin adjective of third declension.
Luna's motive for wanting to depose Celestia was never in question. She laid it out before she even stated her desire to depose Celestia.
Luna is the leader of an armed delegation which went to a more primitive country with the goal of deposing that country's leader. Her motives for doing so is multifaceted.
So on, so forth.
The thing is, Luna's motives - myriad as they are - weren't ever in doubt. It's just that no amount of laying out motives changes the action. She's gone to a foreign country --and she's very emphatically clear on the fact that it is a foreign country, that she is in no way a pony of Equestria, and that she isn't a pony with a stake in Equestria-- and demanded regime change. That's what she's done, plain and simple, and no elucidation of her motivations will ever change that. She could be doing with the intent of literally saving the world; the action would remain unchanged because what she's done isn't a function of why she's done it.
Even in the hypothetical "save the world" case, in terms of international relations it would still be a very, very hostile act. If it really would save the world, it would be a very, very hostile act that happened to be necessary, but at that point we're getting into just war theory, which is neither here nor there.
* She's been planning this for a while, long enough to narrow the entire population of the moon down to but a few ponies, and the entire time she's actively refused first to say a single word to Celestia at all, and then to say a single word about the matter, thus giving her search for a successor an ever greater head start. She was actually planning on keeping Celestia in the dark for even longer than she did, and Celestia had to tell her to cut to the chase multiple times for Luna to even admit to what she was really after.
Whatever one may think of the other issues at play, you really have to hand it Luna: when she stacks the deck, she stacks the deck.
10859011 Actually, another thing to consider is that Luna designed the NRL government/society, so her "summary executions are my right as ruler" mentality is probably woven throughout it. Luna has, as noted, no problem dictating terms to other governments, and not even Onyx thought anything amiss of sending a "security detachment" with enough firepower to turn all of Canterlot into a burning graveyard.
Should Celestia block the NLR's acquisition of new resources and breeding stock by diplomatic means, the only thing preventing the Lunars from taking them by force is ... their own morality ... the morality Luna shaped.