After the defeat of the caribou and the toppling of their empire, the citizens of Equestria try to pick up the pieces. However, the road to recovery is not as easy for some as it is for others.
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I'm sorry but I'm going to have to drop this story here. You're a great author, but Trixie and many things are rubbing me the wrong way.
Bruised Apples was good because it showed strength in horrible times, a brother doing what he could to keep his sister safe. The one with Dain on trail forced the villain to actually look at himself. But this one...
All Trixie has done is whine about her suffering. It reminds me of Superman 699 where a woman goes up to Superman as he is talking about reconstruction after one big disaster in the DCU and slaps him. Why? Her husband died but Superman could have saved him if he hadn't been saving the world! That is how Trixie is sounding right now. That her pain, her suffering is far worse than anyone else's. That those mares who were blanked, broken,and hurt were minor compared to her. And now she is joining up with a group who wants to make a bad situation worse.
Now rape and torture are not things to be shrugged off easily nor are they matters to be taken lightly. In a normal situation I would be far more understanding...but this isn't a normal situation. All of Equestria went through the same thing and Trixie acts like no one else has suffered like her. It's like reading a story set after a hurricane levels an entire city and focusing one a spoiled brat who whines while everyone else is trying to pick up the peices.
Also it hurts this story since everyone has conveniently forgotten about mind control or mental breaking. Has Twilight forgotten how Discord could alter a ponies core? Or the horrors that went on behind closed does? Or that even Luna who was a black collar is defending her fellow alicorns?
9594364
I remember that Superman story (seen a Linkara review that talked about it), and yes that woman was purely in the wrong at that moment. I would also go out of my way to say that Trixie's mindset in this story is likewise incorrect. The idea that your pain is somehow greater than anyone else's pain is, to be blunt, a fairly ignorant way of thinking, and works on the assumption that no one else in the existence of history has ever suffered more than, or even as much as, you.
The kind of people who think like this are usually petty people who have, up until the point of this crisis they are currently experiencing, never truly experienced anything that could be considered suffering before (at least in my opinion). People who have perhaps done bad things to others and where never punished for those action, never had to deal with the consequences of their actions, and have not truly seen pain through the eyes of themselves or others until this one bad experience. Namely, a person like Trixie, who has caused trouble for others in ways that were awful for her victims, only to receive a finger wagging and being told "don't do that again". The only reason in story that she has now been confronted with the fact that she once enslaved a city of ponies is because at the moment forced servitude is kind of a hot topic, otherwise no one would hardly mention Trixie's misdeeds, as we have seen in the show.
But then again, Trixie IS experiencing this kind of crisis for the first time, and with something as big as a year of being raped, tortured, and brought to the point that she believed that she was exactly what the caribou said she was, one could understand that making them bitter and indignant. Does that make it right? No, but just understandable. As Trixie is in the story, she is not what I would call a "good person", and it will take more than simple freedom and a few support group meetings to change that, and as you said the people she is associating isn't helping that.
So yes, you're right about Trixie's current personality, and if that puts you off to the story, then I accept your position on wanting to drop it. I wish I could say she gets better, and soon, but I honestly cannot promise something like that because for the sake of not spoiling the story, that might not be true. As BA is a story about having strength in a horrible time, Weak and Powerless is a story about how hard it can be to recover after a horrible time has ended.
9594509
That's how this story seemed to start off as. I could buy that it was about Trixies recovery after a year of abuse as well as a reflection of her past misdeeds. One of the best parts was when Trixie was working with that mare who was forced to make those torture devices. However when Starlight, Sunset, and even Twilight entered the picture the story felt like it had become about her being used again.
Allow me to make this suggestion: what if we never saw Twilight until there was an event where the two met with Twilight looking calm before Trixie lashes out. That she got to smile while Trixie suffered. Then Twilight breaks down and slaps Trixie. She tells Trixie how she was brainwashed into betraying everything she stood for and has had to have it told to her by others. All with that smile on her face. That every day she wakes up wondering what new horrors she'll find out she's done. That she might have studied magic but clearly there is more out there than Equestria knows about. Or have Luna talk about how hard Celestia fought before she was broken as well as the suffering she endured. Big Mac talking about how he had to willingly allow his sister to be raped in order to keep the family safe.
For me that sort of thing pacts more of an impact than Sunsets cult.
9594577
Well, you're not wrong. Though I would say that Twilight doesn't really have the moral position to simply slap some sense into Trixie. The problem we have here is that Twilight, due to the rash actions of her brother, doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the claims of other ponies. While Shining Armor says that she and the other three alicorns were brainwashed, he has no way to back that up. The Crystal Heart's enchantment had little effect on females, and ponies like Twilight and Cadence seemed to be exceptions to the rules, with a big emphasis on seemed.
And in the case of Carrot's accusation, that Twilight was fine and gave in the moment the threat came to her doorstep, it would almost appear that evidence is now showing that Twilight was acting under her own volition. Thing is she can't say that she was or wasn't, cause she honestly can't remember. It's an intentional conflict created for the purposes of not giving Twilight an easy way out of what might have been entirely her fault. She can believe that she would have never done such a thing of her own accord, but can we really say what we would and would not do under certain circumstances? While probably not true, the idea that Twilight could turn on the populous is at least something that ponies, even Twilight herself, should consider as possible.
9594605
Or there is the possibility that she was brainwashed before being sent there. I can imagine the caribou doing something like that to show their power. Also, didn't you mention in bruised apples that it did have an effect on some mares.
9594605
Also it's not like Twilight needs a moral leg to stand on in order to slap someone in the situation I described. I can see knowing she did stuff like that haunting her even if she doesn't remember. It would be a different kind of violation but in a similar sense as rape. Forgetting about what you have done does not erase the crime.
9594632
Not exactly. The idea is that the ratio of those effected by the Crystal Heart and those not could almost be flipped from stallions to mares (Let's say it was 90% to 10% one way, and 10% to 90% the other, though those numbers aren't set in stone). While some mares did get affected, it was few and far between, and for reasons that weren't really explained. This was, of course, one of NCN's ideas because he wanted to have a rape setting/wanted mares who were red collars to mostly submit on their own accord, but little thought was put into the reason why it was this way. I personally came up with a reason why it could be this way (and one that would without a doubt would prove that Twilight and Cadence would be innocent), but this is a theory that the ponies have no means of concluding to on their own in universe.
In universe, the caribou wanted everyone to believe that the princesses submitted on their own, that they made the decision to be slaves in the end, and they spread that idea far and wide. That kind of information, while most likely false, isn't easily forgotten, even by those who would prefer it be the lie it probably is.
9594646
While I would like to read the part that proves Twilight and Cadence weren't in control, I guess I would prefer to read it in THEIR story and one without a villain.
Like I said part of the problem I've had with this story is Trixies whining. But I could deal with it better if this was just about her getting over it slower, hearing from others, and not joining Sunsets group.
Trying to keep politics out of our media is really naive. Our political stances are an extension of our values, and preventing our values from bleeding into the media we create is practically impossible.
To quote Extra Credits:
"You can't just extract politics from media. Media is created by people. People are products of their culture and times. Intentionally or unintentionally, they are going to express their views through the outlets they have. Our perspectives and understanding of the world inevitably shape our creative work."
Look up Politics in Games by Extra Credits on Youtube. While the video focuses its discussion toward video games, the principle applies to all media.
9594639
And how exactly is this any different than the Superman example you mentioned earlier?
I think the question Twilight is trying to find about being a red collar is why wasn't her will strong enough? Would you say the reason Twilight gave in was because of how sheltered she was in regards to sex? In Fall of Twilight, Twilight openly pleasured herself to the abuse of her friends and mentor during the parade. That's not something anyone would do in that situation. Then it was one vile act after another with Luna getting subdued by her guards and the realization that her brother was under control. Could be that all these events just chipped away at her psyche until she snapped?
9596069
1. Twilight slapping Trixie after her yelling ang complaint at the alicorn about 'oh woah is me' sends a more powerful message to the reader because we dont know what Twilights been up to and Twilight has never really done something like this before.
2. In the Superman example I made, the man of steel goes along with the bullshit the woman is spewing. In my example both characters are dealing with their own issues after the fall. That shit is still happening to her and that she is terrified at the idea that she might have willingly submitted.
3. This goes to show Trixie that other people have suffered, that shes not the only one. Rather than being a one sided argument like it was in Superman, this could allow for both characters to actually argue and change them both in a more meaningful way
9596130
Fair enough.
I may have skimmed through your comment and missed the critical detail of Trixie going off on Twilight in that situation. Sorry for that.
I still don't get how you percive Trixie as "whining", though.
I think she has recognise plenty over the course of the story how everybody has suffered. And it wasn't her that chewed Twilight a new one during the assembly.
9596237
I stopped reading during the part where the Twilight was talking to the crowd and we were hearing Trixies thoughts. This idea that Twilight or even others haven't suffer like her has irked me due to its selfishness
Like my comments said, if this story was solely about Trixies issues and moving past them I would be more forgiving and understanding. However it feels like instead that that author wants a villain with Sunsets group. A group trying to take advantage of a country trying to rebuild, keeping wounds from healing, and possibly taking over. Add that to Trixie thinking only of herself and this just doesn't click for me
Hark, assassin!
Stop right there criminal scum!
Christ, this is why I rarely read these stories. The comments are damn near AIDS in some places. Still, I like you story, and I'll continue to read it.
9596272
Well, groups like this one would almost certainly exist in this situation, and they would also specifically target ponies like Trixie. I think Sunset's inclusion makes a lot of sense here.
9614858
Yes, I can see a group like that forming as well lead by selfish dickheads who deserve a slow and painful death to be doing this after the Fall. However I stand by what I've said about Trixie and about character stories not needing a villain.
I have liked and favored stories by this author plenty of times so I know the quality is in there. However this one just puts me off more with each going chapter
9615161
Except this isn't just a character-driven story. It is also a story about a character reacting to the sociopolitical trends in society around her, and that's part of what makes this story stand out even among Schorl's own works if you ask me (although Bruised Apples already had elements of that). Of course, Trixie is Trixie, but her situation is also representative of thousands of other ponies in similar situations, and her inner and outer reactions are likewise representative. In this situation, everyone will be susceptible to people preaching "easy solutions" and simple world views, and those who have it the worst will be susceptible the most. How would you depict this susceptible-ness if not by introducing an actual demagogue?
9703503
Well, here's the thing. We have seen plenty of ponies trying their damndest to MOVE ON. To repair the world around them and take steps to a form of normality. We see it in the first few chapters. We see this in Trixie talking about her troubles with another mare who was forced to help build the sexual torture devices.
Those thousands of other ponies that suffered like her they are trying to move on. Trixie is wallowing in a please pity me. Give ME more of the potion to turn my body back to normal. Let ME sit down, eat pancakes while other ponies fix what is broken. Tell ME that others out there still hold blame so I can feel better. Please understand that I know what Trixie went through. It was horrible and I do think she needs help. I am not dismissing what she went through. But like I said there are plenty who had similar and worse treatment than her doing there best to work through their pain.
Honestly if I were writing something like this, I'd have Trixie go on a walk about so we could get many different perspectives. I said this in plenty of comments on this story. That way you can show the world, plenty of different thoughts and beliefs, and so on. You don't need a villain
9703552
All of them? Are you sure? I'm sure there will be lots of ponies who struggle with moving on in similar ways. Trixie is pretty far at the bottom though, both socioeconomically and psychologically. I'd say even beside the things that happened in the past (and yes, in that department, Trixie probably isn't too special), Trixie also has it particularly bad as far as the present is concerned. Unlike many others, she hasn't gotten her magic back, and that was both her only source of self-worth and her only source of income back in the day. Yes, Trixie is wallowing in self-pity far more than others, and arguably far more than she has to, and it's definitely not a charming character trait - but I actually think it's in character. Psychologically speaking, it's simply the flipside of the narcissism Trixie as a character is already known for.
Don't get me wrong. I would absolutely love to see a multi-perspective story like that in the After-Fall era. I would write something like that myself if I could, but aside from the fact that I'm absolutely not sure if I could pull that off well, my time schedule also simply doesn't allow for it.
I don't blame this story for not being that story though.
9703572
While I agree that it might be in character, I would have hoped that this might of had a different effect. It also says something when the one off character we met before is far more interesting than the slew of more recognizable characters we read about. She had all the makings of being somepony I would love to read about.
And while I know there are others like Trixie, the majority of Equestria seems to be trying to move forward. That was what I was getting at. I dont blame this story for not being another story. I'm more upset that it is becoming another Fall story where stupidity reigns. Sunset is using the same hate logic and these morons are falling for it. Or the council being better. I had to read many whining filled chapters. This just isnt for me
9703639
Well... as I see it, this is a story about both the psychological and the socioeconomic factors that give rise to fanaticism, both on an individual and on a social level. I might be biased, since I'm sorta-kinda advising Schorl on the socioeconomic and political aspects, but I think Schorl tackles these themes pretty well. But if these kinds of characters and themes aren't for you, I guess that's fine.
9703845
I think part of the problem is that I have a 'bird's eye view' of the situation and that the characters issues feel either hollow or forced.
For example, AJ in Bruised Apples took on a red collar to help protect her family and make things easier on her brother. This brings me to believe that there could have been others who did the same. Should they be punished? What about those who were violently tortured until they lost the will to fight? We also know about their mind control and blanking. Did none of these issues really come up?
It feels like this story is trying to get me to side or at least emphasize with some of these characters but I cant. I know better so it's like waiting for the train wreck to occur. The psychology used is feels questionable at times. It feels like they're just being idiots just to move the plot along which should not be happening in a story like this. in a world full of endless magic and endless ways of Mind Control both in the show and and is this universe it feels like they should understand.
9703903
I don't think you're meant to empathise with Trixie. Not exactly at least. But I'll ask Schorl.
9704008
Well, its kind of hard not to feel that way since she is the focus character if not the main one. We see everything from her eyes and prespective which is very narrow
9703639
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klv9mnSOo3c
Jokes aside, I think there is a question here on whether or not it is intended for the reader to empathize with Trixie.
Honestly, that's really up to you. I mean the way I'm writing Trixie might garner some sympathy from some readers, but on the other hand it might gain the ire of others. I'm personally not condoning the way Trixie is acting, mind you, but the thing is that she has suffered, and this is her way of coping with that. It might not be proper or even healthy, but this is the way some people deal with tragedy, especially when they "feel" they have had it worse than others.
And arguably, Trixie might have had it worse than other mares. In story, it has been explained that Trixie suffered the torture of a rebel mare, without having been blanked at the end of the process. Are the blanks worse off because they had their old lives stripped from them, or is Trixie for having to endure pain that they no longer remember? And even if she did have it worse, does that give her the right to act the way she is? These are all on the individual to decide, because to some it might be perfectly warranted for her place blame on a mare who SHOULD have been able to do more to prevent that suffering to begin with, especially with the stories depicting the tales of Twilight's involvement having her time and again stand ideally by as those she respects and loves get dragged deeper into the caribou's clutches. Mind control or no, Twilight is not exactly a saint in all this.
And yes, I can appreciate the Superman comparison and how he can't save everyone all the time, and to blame him for the deaths of randoms is silly, if we are to take the official Twilight FoE story as truth, then she was in a position where she could have done something and ended up doing nothing on multiple occasion (out of character as that may be). That is where I believe your comparison of Twilight to Superman fails, and one could rightfully lay blame upon her for her actions, or lack there of, which in one way or another would have resulted in her eventually becoming a happy, eager red collar, for whatever unknown reason that might be. In this story, and even in canon to some degree, it is assumed she was brain washed, but in reality she could have submitted to them for a multitude of reasons that nobody can truly be sure of.
9704315
As I said, while Trixie is the main reason I am walking away there are other issues that I am having.
This explanation leaves something to be desired since the original Twilight in FoE was meant to be an idiot. Like Celestia she made stupid choices that lead to her defeat. Or we can look at it as Carabu magic effecting her and altering her actions. Or trying to figure out what to do when everything seemed lost. But if you want to go this route after everything that happened before, wagging a finger and saying nobody is getting off they why not just torture the characters forever? Why not just say that it doesn't matter if your past actions were wiped away, you MIGHT have willingly helped the bad guys so off with your head. To hell with you. Just saturate this world with more hate, distrust, and so on. I'm sorry but it just gets tiring to me. At least in Bruised Apples there were hopeful and uplifting moments that showed me that hope was not completely lost. Now I have lost the will to care
9704315
I'm sorry I'm having a bad day right now and people telling me how I just 'dont understand ' elements of a story i dropped months ago isnt helping. I like your work in general, but if this story was meant to not give anyone a free pass it isnt working that well.
9704361
I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't understand, just attempting to give a different perspective to the story.
It is never my intent to dictate how people feel about my story, and I only ever go out of my way to explain things when asked (as I was this time by Tarvoc), or when it seems someone is being overly spiteful about something they dislike for no reason other to be spiteful. I do not see spite in your reason to drop the story, and respect your viewpoint. I even agree that Trixie is being a bit whiny and self-centered as of this point of the story, and can see how that could put someone off. All I was trying to say is that her outlook does have merit in the context of the story, but if that reasoning is not enough for you that is fine.
I don't expect everyone to appreciate or even enjoy every little thing I put to paper ^_^;
9714670
Thank you got the insightful write up. I always felt Rarity was severely under represented in these stories or used like a chew toy. I've actually gone back to reread Bruised Apples due to this. I seemed to have never finished that story. I stopped just shy of the Gala.
9705601
I get what you were going for, however I just think that it could have been handled better. Also, given all the horrible things that happened during the Fall, reading this sort of story isn't all that engaging nor does it help when Trixie is like this. Or having the villians being so obvious in their desire that I'm banging my head against the my desk.
9903714
Oh no, not at all. I'm sorry if I came off as standoffish. Believe me, there is nothing more I like than someone interpreting my stories and coming up to their own conclusions. Twilight saying that "the caribou altering the Crystal Heart doesn't make sense" isn't supposed to be an outright statement that Twilight, Cadence, and Celestia weren't brainwashed. Twilight and Cadence most certainly were, and Celestia might have been able to trick the caribou into thinking she was under their control (in my mind that is how it went). The conclusion to that line of reasoning is not supposed to be "the heart doesn't work that way, thus they gave in willingly", it's "The heart doesn't work that way, so how did the caribou do this?". I mean even in this story and Bruised Apples it was shown that the Crystal Heart did "something", but no one in the story can tell what that something was, and all accounts told by the caribou (I.E. the other FoE stories) have major faults that conflict with how things work in MLP. This was, of course, to fit the desires of the setting and those making it at the time, but mistakes were made based on common misconceptions that even at the time where shown not to be true.
It's probably explained a bit better in "Meet Thy Maker", where it is said that there are forces in the universe that make things happen for our characters, simply because they want it to happen. That's ok when it comes to fanfiction, because a lot of fanfiction is for self gratification anyways, but when you want to do like I do, and pair it up as closely to the source material as possible, then you have to make your own conclusion on how things fit together.
Might be a bit of me romanticizing things, but I see the path of a story like a river going from the intended beginning to the intended end. Along the way from these two point though, you have to add in narrative bits that push and redirect the story like rocks being tossed in. These rocks are usually not big enough to derail the river from it's destination, but sometimes a person can disrupt it completely by tossing in something that derails the flow of the story. Contradictions that cannot be ignored once one puts thought into it. In that case, the obstruction must be removed to get things back on track. In this case, the mind control is not the derailing factor, but the tool they used is. Thus, the story must be reworked to fit more properly with the course of the stream we are making. (God, this sounds so pretentious)
Hm
Honestly, what's so bad about what Carrot Top says? Twilight and Cadence were both instrumental in the success of the Caribou invasion and, trough both action and inaction. tortured and harmed millions of ponies. In some FoE stories, they even participate in the raping of mares (and iirc it's said in Bruised Apples that Twilight used them as experiment subjects).
And yet the very same ponies are not only not punished and completely forgiven, but are also restored to their pre-Fall positions? How is that just! Especially when such a policy exclusively applies to alicorns. If one is to accept the, admittedly valid, proposition that ponies aren't accountable for what they did while mid controlled, then why are unwilling stallions and willing red collars treated the way they're?
The first remember what they did under the Caribou regime, and are forced to carry that burden for the rest of their lives. The second are persecuted, even though most were in the exact same position as the princess, either mind-controlled (as it seems that, if the alicorns were indeed affected by it, the Crystal Cock continued to affect mares even after it was destroyed, otherwise erasing their memories should have been unnecessary) or tortured into submission. In both cases erasing their memories would quickly fix a lot of the damage the Caribou did, and yet that's not the case. Why are both groups punished for their actions while the princesses got away with everything they did?
And what gives them any right to rule? To remain princesses? Not only did they fail, miserably, at the task, their lack of memories directly hinder their ability to meaningfully function as government officials. Sure, Celestia abdicated and is little more than a figurehead, but the fact that she had to do so, that she could have held to power had she desired to do so, is already infuriating.
I would say that whether or not Twilight and Cadence voluntarily surrendered themselves to the Caribou is mostly irrelevant. In my opinion, they should be held accountable in one way or another either way. Not necessarily punished, mind you, but at least removed from all positions of power and have them face those who were harmed as a direct result of their actions, or lack thereof.
Trixie. I hope she learns to think outside her own perspective.
9594364
I'm enjoying it, this Journey is about Trixie learning to care for others, to improve on her selfish thoughts, and if reading a few chapters about her whining serves as a work up to that, I'm perfectly fine
Trixie I'm trynna defend you, don't push it