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Guys, this is a foreign planet. With foreign laws. And you kidnapped people and took them hostage. And murdered people.

YOU'RE the terrorists here.

MOAR!!!!!!!

5665973 Look at this from their perspective:

You and your species have just spent the last 30 years defending your right to exist from aliens who wanted to take it away.

You have now crash landed on a planet where members of your species are being held in slavery by yet another set of aliens. You know what the locals saying about your species being native to their planet is a load of bull, because you yourself are living proof that it is, and in light of that, everything they say smacks of propaganda.

As far as the crew of the Lost in the Stars knows, it's the Covenant all over again.

Until they get evidence otherwise, that's going to form the basis of their rules of engagement.

5666102

They have no idea these humans aren't native. For all they know, another race of humans was naturally born here. It's called "looking before you leap". All they're doing is causing international incidents that make humans look like trigger happy psychos who don't even ATTEMPT diplomacy with the other races they encounter, they just shoot first, ask questions later.

5666127
They haven't shot yet, and they're about to come into contact with a pro-Human activist in the form of Luna.

Excellent work! If you don't find an editor, don't hesitate to contact me :) Good luck!

5666127

They have no idea these humans aren't native. For all they know, another race of humans was naturally born here.

And for all they know, they're dealing with UNSC citizens who have been enslaved by hostile aliens. That's certainly what the evidence that they have seen points to. And that's all they have to go off of.

And really, which seems more likely to you? That citizens of your civilization have been abducted and enslaved by hostile aliens, shenanigans similar to those which you JUST got done dealing with?

Or that parallel evolution is somehow in effect and somehow produced an alien species that looks and acts exactly like your own?

Not that the ODST team would really care either way. They have human civilians to protect, aliens to kill, and a job to do.

It's called "looking before you leap".

For what, exactly? Humans just got done spending the last 30-odd years learning "aliens = bad guys" the hard way. And so far, the ODSTs have seen exactly zilch to contradict that.

All they're doing is causing international incidents

About which the UNSC would have exactly zero fucks to give.

make humans look like trigger happy psychos

Orbital Drop Shock Troopers to a tee. And they are proud of it. It's what they're paid for, after all; a professional has to be allowed to take some pride in xir work.

who don't even ATTEMPT diplomacy with the other races they encounter, they just shoot first, ask questions later.

When the Covenant made contact with us, we tried making friends.

They declared us an insult to their gods and spent the next 30-odd years trying to wipe us out, and very nearly succeeding.

The days of Voyager and Arecibo are long gone. That innocence and that trust were among the earliest casualties in the Human-Covenant War.

I just can't wait to see how Celestia reacts when she sees the "primitive humans" manning spaceships and equipped with way more advanced technology.

5666346

And really, which seems more likely to you? That citizens of your civilization have been abducted and enslaved by hostile aliens, shenanigans similar to those which you JUST got done dealing with? Or that parallel evolution is somehow in effect and somehow produced an alien species that looks and acts exactly like your own?

I don't make judgments until all the evidence is in. They're already making snap judgments that can cost innocent lives.

It's called "looking before you leap".
For what, exactly? Humans just got done spending the last 30-odd years learning "aliens = bad guys" the hard way. And so far, the ODSTs have seen exactly zilch to contradict that.

You're seriously going to assume ALL aliens are evil because of ONE bad...that's like saying all black people are bad because you were picked on by black kids all through childhood, or that all Southerners are evil after years of Civil War fights.

All they're doing is causing international incidents
About which the UNSC would have exactly zero fucks to give.
make humans look like trigger happy psychos
Orbital Drop Shock Troopers to a tee. And they are proud of it. It's what they're paid for, after all; a professional has to be allowed to take some pride in xir work.

Because THAT'S who I want as my protagonists! TRIGGER HAPPY PSYCHOS WHO ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY FRAGGING ANYBODY THEY THINK IS A DANGER. "Oh God, that thing's pulling a gun!" BAM! "You just shot a twelve year old." "Who cares?" Yeah. GREAT people, these ODST. Shock and awe ring any bells? You WANT your protagonists acting like we did to the Iraqis during the war?

When the Covenant made contact with us, we tried making friends.
They declared us an insult to their gods and spent the next 30-odd years trying to wipe us out, and very nearly succeeding.
The days of Voyager and Arecibo are long gone. That innocence and that trust were among the earliest casualties in the Human-Covenant War.

And as it turned out, they weren't that bad either and were just misled. That's not on them. That's on their leaders. All you're doing is proving people can make mistakes and end up causing lots of innocents to suffer.

5666178

You JUST wrote a chapter in which they slaughtered ponies inside of a train for being evident slavers. You JUST wrote that.

5666400

that's like saying all black people are bad because you were picked on by black kids all through childhood, or that all Southerners are evil after years of Civil War fights.

As a black man, there is a difference between "Picking on someone" and "Genocide".

Likewise, there is also a difference between "Slavery" and GENOCIDE

'that way'? Real fucking smart. Nobel Prize worthy, if you ask me," Melt stated.

Indeed, Sir, a fantastic answer.

"Sister, this is no laughing matter. I believe the Humans are trying to send reinforcements."

HAHAHA, KEEP LAUGHING AND YOU WILL BE FEAR!! HAHHAH

5666532

I'm sorry, but I'm with him. You can't assume every single alien in the entire universe is evil simply because you've had bad experiences with one species. Have you ever seen the twilight zone? There's a really great episode in which an entire town is fearful of an alien being from outer space, and this mysterious item he's been holding onto. They all think it's some kind of chemical weapon, and the military shoots and kills him. When they actually investigate it, guess what? They just spilled a cure that would've put an end to all diseases in the entire earth. He literally came in peace. The point behind the story was that their assumption of the worst ended up taking away something that would've benefited their entire world. And it's a very important point to hammer in, the idea that things are not always what they seem.

5666402
No, I wrote a chapter in which they knocked out ponies in the train, and killed one that was already trying to kill a Human.

5666545

My bad! I apologize. I'm just worried they're going to end up hurting innocent people just because of theirs bad experiences with the Covenant. It's a classic sci fi trope where people new to a planet end up causing trouble because they don't understand how the customs and laws of a world work. And these guys have guns.

5666554
They haven't killed anyone else yet, but that WILL change after the next chapter, considering that Griffons only see Humans as mindless lambs to be slaughtered.

5666400

I don't make judgments until all the evidence is in.

You have that luxury, the ODSTs don't.

They're already making snap judgments that can cost innocent lives.

That's what soldiers are trained to do, make the best judgements they can on the information that they have available, as quickly as they can. If they don't, friendly lives can be lost.

You're seriously going to assume ALL aliens are evil because of ONE bad...

After all of the known alien species in the entire universe just spent the last 30-odd years happily, willingly, and knowingly trying to cause my own species' extinction?

I just might, and I'd have 23 billion reasons to back me up. Good will is easily lost and hard to earn, and the Covenant fucked it up for everyone else that might come after them.

Because THAT'S who I want as my protagonists! TRIGGER HAPPY PSYCHOS WHO ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY FRAGGING ANYBODY THEY THINK IS A DANGER.

When the universe just got done doing its level best to kill you, it's not an unreasonable mindset.

"Oh God, that thing's pulling a gun!" BAM! "You just shot a twelve year old."

"That twelve-year-old was going to kill me and the people I'm protecting if I didn't; see the assault rifle?"

"Oh."

Shock and awe ring any bells?

Four words:

Orbital Drop Shock Trooper

And as it turned out, they weren't that bad either and were just misled. That's not on them. That's on their leaders. All you're doing is proving people can make mistakes and end up causing lots of innocents to suffer.

The Prophets lead the charge.
The Brutes ate us, and continued to do so right up to the end.
The Elites went along with it right up until we became their only hope of survival.
The Drones Followed the Prophets without question to the very end.

The Jackals are a race of pirates that would have happily killed us as all if it meant getting paid.

Half of the Hunters quite happily stayed with the Prophets.

The Grunts are the only true innocents in the Covenant, as they quite literally had no choice in the matter, being slaves and all.

5666598
5666400
And even after the war was done, quite a few of the Sangheili still saw humans as a plague on the galaxy. The reactions that this group of ODSTs is having are actually quite tame, compared to what would happen if a Spartan team made of the original Twos and/or Threes came into the mix. Especially the Threes, considering that they joined the program for the sole purpose of exterminating aliens with extreme prejudice. The Twos would have sat by and watched more before getting involved, but they would have been brutally efficient in doing so; none of the ponies would have been alive afterwards. Be glad that it was a squad of moderately "sane" Helljumpers, rather than a freaking SPARTAN.

5666542

You can't assume every single alien in the entire universe is evil simply because you've had bad experiences with one species.

>ignoring the UNSC's contact with the flood
>ignoring the UNSC's contact with the forerunners (of which, only a super-majority only wanted humanity dead, rather than everyone)
>ignoring the fact that the Covenant is made up of eight races, not one.
Yeah, humanity has only had bad experiences with one alien race, and it's not like those "bad experiences" didn't result in a thirty+ year war with multi-billions of casualties (both military and civilian), tons of habitable worlds being utterly destroyed without massively-expensive terraforming work, and almost resulted in humanity (and by extension, every other species in the galaxy) becoming extinct

Also, if you really want to make that episode actually relevant, include the fact that those people had to fight off ten different alien races prior, watched as billions of innocent people get murdered (and thousands eaten alive) by those aliens, and had a very real threat of extermination hanging over their heads. Then add in that the alien was dragging around several humans as slaves, and viciously beat one right in front of the military.

5666753

They're PASTEL PONIES. Not creepy insect blob monsters or lizard men with segmented mouths. They don't even have space travel. They're clearly not a threat. Assumptions are bad no matter how much you want them to be otherwise. And again...youre making overgeneralizations. It's like saying black people should hate and distrust all white people because white people have been harassing them of enslaved them or killed them for decades. And then meeting a new breed of whites people makes them immediately assume "enemy". It's called the slippery slope an it's a FALLACY.

5666794

They're PASTEL PONIES.

And? They seem to have human slaves. That isn't something that can just happen. Irrelevant point is irrelevant.

They don't even have space travel.

According to whom? Didn't Nightmare Moon appear on the UNSC ship in orbit? Seems like they've got a form of space travel.

They're clearly not a threat.

Yeah, after all, it was just equipment malfunction that caused the UNSC ship to loose orbit. Yeap. No Equestrian involvement there. Oh, and all of those injuries on the human slaves? They just fell down a few flights of stairs, on a single-floor train. It wasn't as if the ponies had beaten the living hell out of them, no siree.

Assumptions are bad no matter how much you want them to be otherwise.

Given that your entire argument is based off of assumptions, this is quite entertaining. Like the two lines above, which are completely based on assumptions, rather than facts.

And again...youre making overgeneralizations.

Really? Name one, and do be sure to provide proof.

It's like saying black people should hate and distrust all white people because white people have been harassing them of enslaved them or killed them for decades. And then meeting a new breed of whites people makes them immediately assume "enemy".

According to this, when used in the context of alien first contact situations, you are saying that blacks and whites are not humans. That they are, in fact, completely different species. Yeah, I'm going to give you a pass on that outright racist statement. That argument is completely different to the situation that is currently going on. Blacks and whites all are still the same species, were our situations is dealing with eleven different species facing humanity (and all of them attacked humanity). Do try and keep things in perspective, and not use completely inaccurate comparisons. It's a complete failure in logic to do so.

It's called the slippery slope an it's a FALLACY.

Do you really want me to list out every single fallacy you've made so far? Since it's obvious that you don't understand what fallacies truly are, I'll do so: Incomplete comparisons, proving too much, red herrings, assuming the conclusion, mind projection fallacy, false analogy, wishful thinking, and overwhelming exception. Also, if you think my comment is a slippery slope, then you don't know what a slippery slope truly is (I never said anything that even approached that kind of argument). Do some research before you try and use words that you don't understand.

My "fallacies" actually have logic and facts supporting them (the covenant, the forerunners, and the flood all have attacked humanity and tried to destroy it; that's ten different races within a thirty-year timespan, that's not a hasty generalization), and therefore aren't fallacies, where your arguments have nothing but hand waving and illogical conclusions behind them, which makes them fallacies. Please, explain to me how you confused "one alien race" when there is an actual record of ten races. Please explain to me how beating the shit out of a human means that they are not a threat. Please explain to me how Luna being able to force a UNSC ship to crash land means that they are not a threat. Explain to me how the ponies having human slaves means that they are not a threat. So far, the best you've done is to try and hand wave that away. Also, "magic" isn't a logical answer.

5666964

I love how you pretend you used all that when you really didn't and ignored common, basic logic to make dishonest points.

5666978
So, instead of providing proof, logic, and evidence to support your side, you resort to name calling (a logical fallacy). Yeah, you've really got tons of logic and facts backing you up

Also, given that I only shredded your defense, rather than state anything new, you didn't read my comment.

Author, if you don't want this to keep going, I'd recommend blocking ngrey. He has a habit of out right attacking those that don't share his view, and provides zero credible feedback on writing. Blocking him will gain you nothing negative, and a lot of positives (you wouldn't be the first to do this either).

5667004

I provided plenty of proof and arguments. It's not my fault if you don't want to listen. And of course you recommend blocking. You're the type of person who insists that the only type of feedback ever given is positive. People like you love things the way a child does. A work you love is good and anybody that ever criticizes any work you care about is automatically evil.

People like me care about stories the way adults care about each other. Just because we love something, it doesn't mean we don't point out the flaws in it.

5667004
I do that, and he wins.

5667152
Deleting his comments does that (as that would be censorship), keeping him from trolling more only results in him blustering to those who would agree with him anyway (as evident by his refusal to provide any evidence on his blatant attacks on me). It doesn't effect you. Besides, you can also point to Newenglandee as evidence that you are willing to take real criticism (even though his argument is as flawed as ngrey).

There are plenty of authors who've blocked him, and they've only been praised for the decision (and every single one of them has shown that they can take actual criticism).

5667163
How do I block people, then?

5667163

I'm not a troll, I'm just highly opinionated. I don't do this to get a reaction out of people, I do this because I comment and when I comment I comment passionately, Who are you to claim the moral high road Ghost, when you absolutely love villain protagonists who have absolutely nothing going for them whatsoever beyond being "cool"? How much did you defend "Malideus" again? A story written by a self admitted and deliberate troll which you PRAISED despite it's incredibly flawed nature and it's disgusting and reprehensible protagonist who was not even played remotely for any sort of irony?

5666598

This is why I hate the Halo series. Mass Effect did the "interaction with alien life forms" far better. And more realistically, honestly. I mean, I respect how much Halo did for FPS, but it's not exactly had the most...good story. Or nuanced characterization.

5667183
Put your mouse cursor over his username, click the arrow on the upper right corner, and then click "block" which is close to the bottom of the list (right next to "report").

5667188

How much did you defend "Malideus" again?

Never read it, and I never would given that it doesn't interest me. Provide visual (a pic) proof that I did defend it. Otherwise, that's yet another lie you've been caught saying. That's not being passionate in a debate, that's outright lying.

5667259

Oh, wait, no that's DOCTOR GHOST. Nevermind. I take back that comment.

5667224

Mass Effect did the "interaction with alien life forms" far better.

Mass Effect is space opera while Halo is military science fiction. Neither is better than the other, just different.

One is about humanity as it comes into its own amongst a United Nations expy.

The other is about warriors as they struggle against extinction.

Of course the two are going to have different tones. Of course they're going to have the alien interactions go differently.

but it's not exactly had the most...good story.

On the contrary, it's excellent military science fiction, up there with Starship Troopers and Ender's Game. Read Eric Nylund's stuff; they're excellent novels in in their own right and the world they create beyond the games is astounding.

5667290

I like the novels immensely but to be honest, I was never a fan of outright military gung ho style fiction no matter how well it's done. It doesn't allow for a more realistic examination of cultures or people. It's too easy to turn everything into an us vs them dichotomy. And it can also be hard when a story is or isn't poking fun at it's own tropes.

Plus, to be honest and fair to Halo? Halo ODST really should have been called Halo ODLC. As in Overpriced Downloadable Content, cuz that's how it came across. Heyooooh!

5667329

I like the novels immensely but to be honest, I was never a fan of outright military gung ho style fiction no matter how well it's done. It doesn't allow for a more realistic examination of cultures or people. It's too easy to turn everything into an us vs them dichotomy. And it can also be hard when a story is or isn't poking fun at it's own tropes.

That's fair. To each their own.

Plus, to be honest and fair to Halo? Halo ODST really should have been called Halo ODLC. As in Overpriced Downloadable Content, cuz that's how it came across. Heyooooh!

. . . That's also fair.

You should make one of the ODSTs bitch slap Celestia. Oh, will anymore UNSC personal show up? What about ships? Particulary Battlegroup Dakota with the UNSC Infinity?

5667346

Though one thing confuses me. Okay, presumably...PRESUMABLY...the humans on Equestria came from a spaceship hundreds of years ago and Celestia just found them. Yet she claims that when she found them, they were, as she said, incapable of basic mathematics and speech and the like. If they were incapable of basic math and barely could articulate...how would they even manage a spaceship at all? I mean, granted, yes, it was hundreds of years ago and standards change over time, but it's very confusing that there'd be nobody that she found who could understand basic math or speak properly if they'd just come from space and had only recently arrived on Equestria. I mean, we can't say the planet has some kind of field that automatically made them stupid when they breathed in the air or anything because the marines that have landed would be dumb and incapable of speech themselves.

Also, why DOES Celestia find it so unbelievable that there could be advanced humans when she's seen Sirens, Discord, Changelings, you get the idea. There comes a point where you have to say "Considering everything else I've experienced in my many, many years of life...this actually sounds plausible". I can understand SKEPTICISM but to outright just dismiss it? That doesn't exactly seem plausible behavior, especially not from somebody who is essentially "The Good Witch Glinda" of MLP.

5667415
I'm not telling!

5667441 Btw, are you gonna keep the streak going cause I'm hoping you can post another chapter tomorrow or better yet, tonight.

5667431
I never said that the Humans had their own ship when they arrived, Luna only assumed the first Humans came down on a ship, since it's the only way she's seen them arrive.

Also, I may have messed up a bit with Celestia, but I think she'd be rather overjoyed by the fact that her sister came back before she lets her thoughts return to the grim reality (and I use that word very lightly) of the situation.

5667458
Well...
I'll set my alarm for early tomorrow morning and get writing straight away. I just posted a new story.

5667464

OHHH! That makes more sense.

5667431

Also, why DOES Celestia find it so unbelievable that there could be advanced humans when she's seen Sirens, Discord, Changelings, you get the idea. There comes a point where you have to say "Considering everything else I've experienced in my many, many years of life...this actually sounds plausible". I can understand SKEPTICISM but to outright just dismiss it? That doesn't exactly seem plausible behavior, especially not from somebody who is essentially "The Good Witch Glinda" of MLP.

Since the author addressed the first point, I''l take this one.

I think it's a combination of a couple factors.

One, her sister just had the equivalent of an exorcism, that's not going to lend what she tells Celestia much credibility; looking at this from Sunbutt's point of view, yeah, the demon in her head could have been, and likely was, messing with her.

Two, there's likely more than a little bit of good old-fashioned racism. We know that ponies aren't above keeping species like sheep as slaves, for example.

5667464 me like.....a lot, can there be more like right away? If it's possible

5666566
That kid of funny, kind of like if this happened.
"In other news alien cows with death rays attacked a local McDonalds today. 30 were killed in a SWAT style raid where none were spared. The aliens have made no statements but government officials......"
Humans are such hypocrites, OMG something bigger and stronger is using and abusing humans. When its been the law of nature for eons. Sure an ODST team would have the firepower to take on most common ponies or griffons. But freeing a population on a planetary scale is not so easily done. And what happens when the captors realize that their goods are rather dangerous? Stupid humans didn't even realize they had commandeered a Human underground railroad. Bringing that kind of exposure to the organization is only going to hurt it and any chance of its future. Sloppy and stupid, they shouldn't have even gotten involved now they will have an entire population to support with no supplies, no plan of action, no base of operations, limited firepower and a piss poor sense of local customs and traditions. Just like humans, "don't care, it aint human so blow it up." Don't worry that even if its an army with swords and arrows, given enough time eventually they will figure out how to defeat you. Ehh but what the hell tactics and political intrigue is boring so lets get to killing and blowing shit up, especially them asshole griffons, just cause there most like us but cooler.

5669089 Misanthropy detected.

5669431
hahaha, no on the contrary I dislike the imperialistic Manifest Destiny attitude of the ODST team. Considering they have zero Intel on this world and its inhabitants many of their actions seem dangerously risky. As representitives of humanity these people are lacking and if things go south it won't only endanger the mission but threaten the lives of ever human on the planet.

5669457 Fair enough points.