"My story has 100 words per chapter! it is a master piece of writing that deserves to be placed within the great library of Alexandria! but why does it have so many dislikes?" asks random writer #1

"Good Question! and here is your answer. When you read a story or a book you read it because it is fun, because it gives you something to do, and because it allows you to go into a world that isn't your own. That is where length comes in. In a book chapters are generally thousands of words long, the reason for this is because the author wants to convey a ton of information for the reader to soak in and enjoy. when your word count is in the hundreds you aren't giving your reader enough information to really immerse themselves into the story. If Harry Potter, The Hobbit, Eragon, and all these other grand epics had only 100 words per chapter no one would read them and they wouldn't have sold....ever."

Inhales for breath "the easiest way to start writing more and getting more words out is to time yourself. Challenge yourself by writing one shots within a thirty minute time period, don't stop writing until after the thirty minutes are up and check on your wording. You'll notice that the wording was well within the thousands instead of the hundreds. Remember that a good rule of thumb is to aim for your chapters to be around 1,500 words or more if its a multi chapter story and then have your one shots be longer if need be."

Inhales again "There are exceptions to this self imposed rule. The first chapter for any story can be as long (And by proxy as short) as you want them to be as long as they get the reader interested."

(Grammar/punctuation will be fixed later I currently have the flu and need to get it sent in to my editor, but I felt this needed to be addressed.)

2733912 Every chapter shud hav 1728 to 20736 words

2733987 na man every chapter needs to have 150,000,000 words or it gets down voted for being impure.

2733995 429981696 words or it didn't happen!

2733912
Thanks! I've been wondering how long my chapters should be. I guess I've been doing it right the entire time .

2733912
The other point to, well, point out is that chapters and stories can be *too* long. For instance, a few quick guidelines:

>>> If it's above 10k, break it into chapters. People will get turned off by a 10k oneshot. I'd argue that could even hold true for > 8k, but by 10k you should probably break it into sections to make it more manageable for the reader.

>>> Don't keep writing if you have nothing to say. If you're looking to expand a section that you've already written, it generally makes more sense to embellish and add more details within the prose than to tack on awkward and unnecessary stuff at the end.

All the best,
TCM

As a rule-of-thumb a chapter should be long enough that you aren't irritated by having to reload the page often, and short enough that you can put the story down when you want to. A moderately fast reader should be able to read a chapter in six to twelve minutes.

2733912 Ehh, I just get turned off by 8k word chapters. Generally, 1k is great for breezing through it to see if your fic is worth a shot to read, and 4k is pushing it.

2734260

wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurd

69 letters in wurd

How about:

End your chapter whenever the hell you feel like it should end?

There isn't a rule anywhere in English literature where a Chapter must be X words long.

3683000

So your point is moot.

hmm... would replying to this count as a necro? I did check the rules but didn't find anything helpful pertaining to the classrooms.

Well, since I'm posting this question, might as well post my own problem.

I started writing a fic, and the prologue is currently over 17K words long. I figured out one major break around the middle, but that still makes two large sub chapters.
And I'm a little worried about sectioning them further...
And this does seem like a good place to ask

EDIT: well, around two weeks, no replies but no warning... guess I can try again... So, current prologue length is 22K words, currently separated into four chapters, though the first one is almost 8K words. That first part couldn't be shortened or cut further however.

So, any comments, opinions, or advice? thx in advance.

hmm... edits don't bump a post it seems... Hope this exeptionnal double post will do the trick...

5163395
5196287

Not a professor, I'm aware some of them don't like it when non-staff give advice in these, but yeh, you've been waiting a while. And tbh the OP has nothing particularly useful for your case

I'd be concerned firstly about the design and structure of your story, rather than any conceptual take on wordcount. What kind of introduction (mind, we're not talking prologues just yet) takes over 10k words, let alone 17k? You introduce the characters, the setting, the key or initial conflict, in as efficient a way as possible so that you can get to the good part. "Start as close to the end as possible" is a great adage, though putting it into practice can be painful.

Elaborate backstory for the main cast? Cut. Lengthy history of the land and its cultures? Cut. A lot of cool stuff that you swear you think would lock in a reader the moment they lay eyes on it? Cut. Edgy monologue? Cut and dry it on an open fire.

Based on my personal experience as a reviewer slash editor, overwrought prologues tend to follow this line of uselessness and not cutting to the chase. For an example of what does work, consider the first chapter of Harry Potter:

Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn't hold with such nonsense.

Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she spent so much of her time craning over garden fences, spying on the neighbors. The Dursleys had a small son called Dudley and in their opinion there was no finer boy anywhere.

The Dursleys had everything they wanted, but they also had a secret, and their greatest fear was that somebody would discover it.

150 words, and bang, hook. The HP world is well-known for being deep and rich and strong, with many vivid characters, elaborate workings, and histories. But the hook focuses on 1) introducing the main character, in this case by 2) introducing the initial conflict (the Dudleys abusing him) and setting up the reveal for 3) the setting. It's worth noting that there is no prologue because it's just not necessary.

Now, can you say that your story, with its world and characters and conflict and setting, need a prologue?

Can you say that the prologue somehow holds more value than an actual Chapter 1 would? Can you say that the prologue will be more relevant, more interesting than a Chapter 1?

Now, I don't know what your case may be, but I'm fairly certain of two possible cases: one, that your prologue is not actually a prologue, ie it's already part of the story and should be called such; or two, that your prologue is way bloated and you need to get rid of stuff. Evaluate accordingly, be honest, and make a decision. Don't think of the sunk cost in time. 17k words is, honestly, about a week of feverish inspired writing, i.e. really not that much to lose, especially when you consider the flip side: potential loss in reader interest due to weak hook, and how it will determine the pace for the rest of the story to come.

Of course, this is all general advice, and I won't know for sure until I look at it (which unfortunately I cannot because stuff). But you already have a gut feeling telling you this won't work, elsewise you'd just have kept going.

5196717

First of all, thank you for your reply.

Well, my story (it's OUR story to be precise, I'm a co-author) is a crossover, taking a character from one world and placing him into MLP.

What I call the prologue is the part where I present the character and his normal world, then an event forcing him away from his world and his landing in Equestria. Though, I suppose my definition of prologue may be wrong in that case. If we take your Harry Potter example, what I call the prologue would end once young Harry goes with Hagrid into Diagon Alley.

I've gotten a whole bunch ready, though since it takes so long before the ponies are introduced, I haven't been able to publish it on Fimfiction.

It also allows me to show that world for a bit, since it's pretty much war-torn, and contrast it to the MLPverse through the MC's eyes.

The thing is, it started at 7K words, but we realised we were simply rushing to get to Equestria. So when we fleshed out the MC and the world more, the size of that part just grew... We'd be tempted to just leave it as one giant chapter, but I fear it may discourage readers from even trying to read.

EDIT: the other problem is the first part, which I simply cannot cut to less than 8K. The first part is an action scene (little explanations, but a way to see the MC in his natural environment) followed by a moment of relaxation and character interaction which will serve to introduce the world he lives in. lastly it throws a hook to compel the reader to continue

5196729
EDIT: Additional notes below the line.

Hey there! It's pretty cool to discuss in real-ish time, so let's have a go at this.

What I call the prologue is the part where I present the character and his normal world, then an event forcing him away from his world and his landing in Equestria. Though, I suppose my definition of prologue may be wrong in that case. If we take your Harry Potter example, what I call the prologue would end once young Harry goes with Hagrid into Diagon Alley.

Sounds like you have a Chapter 1 instead of a prologue, yes...

The reason it is so long is so that readers who have no knowledge of that world may still understand enough to progress.

...and sounds like you have some bloat, too.

Crossovers are a classic case study in proper introductions, now that you mention it. How much introductory information is necessary for a reader to enjoy the story? The answer imho is surprisingly little. Nearly every original fiction story kicks off in a world the reader is not initially familiar with, and those seem to be doing fine for themselves. Technology, magic, bleh, whatever, explanations are honestly not as necessary as one might think, unless it's actually relevant (or made to be relevant as the story fits).

Let's take Harry Potter again. A crossover that puts Harry into Equestria would need the circumstances (e.g. a spell i.e. the conflict), the characters (who is this Harry?) and the setting ("...ponies?"). It would likely not need the backstory of his parents. Probably wouldn't even need to mention Voldemort, and he's the key villain that drives the conflicts in the HP books - and you wouldn't have to mention Voldy upfront even if he were to show up later, unless the whole reason for Harry being there was to chase after Voldy.

Let's take a new example, arguably the One Crossover to rule them all: Fallout: Equestria. Intro: 237 words. A bit too edgy, but it does a good job of introducing the setting (grimdark), gives an idea about the conflict, and hints at the characters. The prologue is 988 words, and talks about a piece of tech. What makes it work is that the MC says this is relevant (and you'd be surprised at how much you can get away with if you phrase things in a smooth enough way).

I glossed over all the PipBuck stuff. But I did get the tone of the story and a good idea of what kind of a pony the main character is going to be. And that - and this is the main point - is all that's required of a start.

Character, conflict, setting. Everything else should take a backseat. A story is no good if it doesn't have these, and as fun as the crossover details may be, they're not why I read. I mean, gosh it is painful sometimes to omit source material, but this is where good planning will work wonders. Structure the story to fill in the gaps as it goes along if you must, but don't squander your first impressions on, well...

I've gotten a whole bunch ready, though since it takes so long before the ponies are introduced

...stuff that the Fimfic audience is not here to read about.

All right, so Fo:E might not be the best example. It's a sort of ponified crossover, so it gets a lot of familiarity points. I also play Fallout, so my perspective is not the newest. Let's try something I have utterly no clue about, another crossover great, The Dresden Fillies.

911 words in the prologue. There's Harry Dresden, check. There's the setting, Edinburgh/Equestria, check. Who is this Council? Who is Ortega? What's Riflettum, and how does he use his magic? -> I actually don't care. I know that they're antagonistic-y, and magic is a thing. That's enough for me to keep reading. I'm sure the Nevernever is something vast and deep and interesting and whatnot. But this line:

The Nevernever connected to everything, so it could take me anywhere, theoretically.

and the context is all I need to understand it. I don't need to understand it in depth to get where the story's going. It's just a passing thing, right? I guess?

There's also the original issue of wordcount: in every case, it takes a fraction of the words to introduce. That's all an intro has to do, introduce.

Point being, good crossovers usually focus on the same things good stories focus on: character, conflict, setting. Sure, some cleverly efficient writing is needed to keep it short, and it helps if your style is naturally engaging, but a great story that's an unfaithful crossover will do better than a faithful crossover that's a mediocre story. And not having ponies for a long while in a ponyfic is, honestly, setting off warning bells. It's all about assurance, you know - assuring the potential reader that this story has what they want. You can add "ponies" as a fourth object to the list, too.

Again, this is all general advice. Discussions on how to make crossovers work have been going on since the beginning of fandom, and the last time I checked, that underlined part was the consensus that everyone reached... I can't say for sure if all this explanation is vital or not unless I read it, as well as the plan for the whole story. But I know for sure that I wouldn't sit through even 500 words of unfamiliar crossover explanation unless I had a grab on character, conflict and setting within that time, much less content without ponies for a long time to come.

It also allows me to show that world for a bit, since it's pretty much war-torn, and contrast it to the MLPverse through the MC's eyes.

You should either save this for the actual story or not mention it at all. To be blunt: what's even the point of this? To show that the other world is grittier? To add edge? What's the point of even bringing the other world in? Does it have any relevance to the plot?

The thing is, it started at 7K words, but we realised we were simply rushing to get to Equestria. So when we fleshed out the MC and the world more, the size of that part just grew... We'd be tempted to just leave it as one giant chapter, but I fear it may discourage readers from even trying to read.

7K is still too long. Why is your character development happening there instead of in Equestria? If that's the case, this is not a ponyfic anymore, because all the story is happening outside of Equestria, isn't it?

EDIT: the other problem is the first part, which I simply cannot cut to less than 8K. The first part is an action scene (little explanations, but a way to see the MC in his natural environment) followed by a moment of relaxation and character interaction which will serve to introduce the world he lives in. lastly it throws a hook to compel the reader to continue

Hooks come first. What you're referring to might be a cliffhanger instead. A hook is a tidbit of interest, the assurance of engaging content.

The action scene I can get behind. Action is good because it's engaging. It appeals to the basest interests of people, which is why so many stories feature it: you can't go wrong. The relaxation bit sounds, well, useless, as does the interaction. Again, why is this development not happening in Equestria? If the point of the story is to showcase the other world... that's not a ponyfic. That's a fanfic of that other world.

5196786

That does ring true. I can skip a few 'important' details to the understanding of the first world, though two 'factions' need to be presented, one being the main character's. The rest can be glossed over (ie, they exist).

And, I do believe I have in fact been misusing the term prologue. I could call the 8K bit chapter one and everything would flow smoothly from there...

That said, there is one part that will be difficult to shorten (multiple parts actually) because they deal with the MC's emotions. His accidental trip will cause some heavy damage emotionally (almost enough to break the character in fact), and I realized upon a reread that without some deeper understanding of the MC, the readers may not understand the depth of the shock he takes (that emotional damage will also trigger more events down the road which are quite important, so I cannot remove that part.

That part has grown to over 25K words by now... I guess it did get bloated a little... though half of it is already the MC doing stuff, and through his actions and thoughts, the reader gets to know who he is. there is also a decent mix of action and dialogue scenes to balance the descriptions. I guess I really did misuse the term prologue, since the story starts pretty much from the first chapter, it's just that the main hook isn't setup until he leaves his world.

As for the lack of ponies, allow me to disagree. For one, the fic is OC centric. If the main character doesn't appeal to the readers at all while in his world, I doubt he'll be any better once in Equestria. For two, most of the fic will take place there, with only a small bit at the beginning in his own Verse.

EDIT : a small example of one description scene within a dialogue. Characters hear the death of one of their own, yet they are 'immortal'. They go into shock at suddenly hearing the news, and there is a small explanation on their past, introducing some lore to explain this 'immortality'. Hopefully this way the relevant lore has been introduced in a way that doesn't bore the reader.
Once again, some I can see isn't that relevant and can help reduce this part by a few thousand words...

3,000 seems like a good number. Not too much and not too little.

2733912

I have seen fanfics which have about more then 288K+ words worth of prologue such as "Path of the King" which HASN'T even begun the real story, but the fucking prologue just reals you in because the author fleshed everything, nothing left behind.

.... fairly certain (by that I mean 100% sure) that fic has no relation whatsoever with ponies...

And I'm going to have to say you're almost certainly mistaking the meaning of the word prologue... probably the exact same mistake I am making.

and while I get the point you are trying to make, PotK may not have started the main arc, but it has begun within the settings of the universe it was made from, thus drawing readers in. Casca explains that, at least in here, people want ponies in their fiction, which I was saying was absent from that 25K prologue.