7754999
Hey, do you or anyone else happen to recall if there were set plans for using Thorax and Pharynx? I know we've got Ocellus present, but curious if either of those two have been given any set ideas for their use, yet. Otherwise I might make use of them myself.

7755701
No clue sorry, I avoided later Changeling lore I'm afraid ><

7755702
Well, better to ask forgiveness than permission, as they say. I'm thinking it might be fun to use both brothers together in a story to sort of set up their dynamic as a pair in the Lunaverse. I'm thinking that perhaps Pharynx is the "tactical" specialist of the pair, perhaps even an elite member of Chrysalis' guard forces, whereas Thorax is more a knowledge based logistics specialist. My thought here is that the brothers are sent on recon into Equestria as a pair, with Pharynx's job being tactical assessment, and Thorax left with the job of making observations on pony culture and the quality of the "food" supply.

Weird aside, did anyone ever determine what the heck Dark Magic even in be it in canon or in Lunaverse?

Cos its honestly pretty damn vague.

As what is dark magic vs any other type of magic?

In the Lunaverse it appears to be quite different from all other magic, its addictive and might even have some sort of mind of it's own. It might entirely be linked to the rainbow of darkness and Tyrek.

7758330
7758922
Yeah I can't recall if we ever nailed down specifics about it, and it's entirely possible there's more than one form of magic that could be classified as "Dark Magic". Basically I kind of see it like blanket term that gets used to describe a number of magical spells and practices that have some sort of negative impact on the caster or environment, but there could be as many causes and sources for said Dark Magic as there are types of it, and the phrase is more a title than a reference to a specific and limited form of magic. Like certain times of mind control could be called Dark Magic, but then again so could necromancy, even if they're two different breeds of magic they'd both fall under the term.

7758927
Mhm, that is a fair take and broadly speaking I'd agree, I think what always trips me up is Celestia & Twilight using Sombra's crackling green eyed crystal magic which feels very specified as dark magic while other stuff came off as more nebulous. But that might just be my reading of the framing over its actual position in the text and regardless, your point stands visa V, dark magic likely being an umbrella term.
7758922
Wait I forget was that rainbow canonized to the Lunaverse lore? Cos I gotta say if so I love it :D

7758927

If we work with the Rainbow of Darkness being the source of 'true' dark magic then maybe there are 7 'flavors' of dark magic each working on some way as the opposite of one of the elements. True dark magic is the addictive sort and seems to have some sort of malign intelligence behind it. It might also cause physical harm to it's user.

Other dangerous spells might be considered 'lesser' dark magic possibly any spell specifically designed to cause harm and although, like anything, it can be addictive it isn't a common side effect of them and doesn't have a mind of it's own.

Of course, you could go in the opposite direction that there is no light or dark magic, magic itself is just a tool it's what you use it for which can be morally positive or negative.

7758935
7758936
Could be that the green eyes thing happens when using magic under specifically negative conditions, or particular groups of spells that have a bad impact on the user. The idea of there being seven distinct types of particularly bad dark magic based on opposing principles to the Elements is an interesting idea. I could see some of it readily enough, like Seven Corruptions instead of Seven Elements.

Loyalty's Corruption could be extreme mind control magic, basically the kind that dominates the mind and can make one do anything including betraying friends and loved ones. Kindness' Corruption could be magic designed specifically to inflict agony on the target, perhaps created for the purposes of torture and interrogation. Generosity's Corruption would perhaps be something akin to what Tirek practices, a sort o life stealing or energy absorption that takes power and life-force away from others to empower oneself. Laughter's Corruption I could see as a fear based magic that is designed to twist the mind of others into seeing nightmares or otherwise be bombarded by phantasmal fears. Honesty's Corruption would be like a highly tuned form of illusion that goes to the point of making an illusion physically real, turning a "lie" into reality, kind of like the pool that made the Pinkie clones. With Magic's Corruption itself, I could see Chaos Magic as essentially the antithesis of it, as Chaos basically breaks down and destroys the rules which govern reality, whereas Magic itself is about working within the binding rules of reality, which is why it's at the center of the Elements.

Then I guess it's a question of whether you want to use the seventh Element, which I assume more or less refers to the Element of Empathy that was sort of in Equestria Girls. If one does make use of that I'd see Empathy's Corruption as most likely being Necromancy, as one has to sort of be cold and lacking in empathy to make use of and manipulate the bodies and/or spirits of the dead.

Sorry fell down several rabbit holes but I'm back.

Honestly if there is one major distinction that seems to exist with the various 'Dark Magic users' such as they can nominally be defines, its that their path to magic often seems to lead them to a lot of power but also be largely selfish or even parasitic in nature, while 'good' magic so to speak seems to empower based on collectivism. One could even argue its clear in how Cadence & Shining Armor's mutual love made them stronger than Chrysalis, while Chrysalis gained power from parasitically absorbing love.

This also ties in with the emotional aspects, Nightmare Moon was said to be a wicked mare of darkness and her transformation is tied to negative emotions, and Celestia tied Sombra's dark magic to hatred and fear, which seems reflective of what emotions she tapped into to replicate it after contrasting it against what the Crystal Heart would do if positive emotions empowered it. But at the same time, if dark magic were so easy to utilize that it just took tapping into regular magic while angry I feel it'd be more common too, so I definitely feel some steps are missing here.

7759173
You raise a good point there, Celestia did define Sombra's magic as hatred and fear, while NMM's eyes became dragon like and her emotions were more jealously based if I recall.

The idea of a Rainbow of Darkness and it being tied to six anti Elements is an intriguing idea to be sure; I think if anything laughter's counterpart would be fear if only cos of the show itself contrasting them. I am unsure if the elements would manifest in specific spell types though but that might just be me,

7760254
This talk is almost making me think about how we want to define Changeling magic in the Lunaverse, since it's obviously magic but there's many questions about what it can or can't do. Like if it can replicate different forms, can it also replicate the special magical abilities of the forms taken on? Can Changelings make use of regular unicorn-like spell magic? Do they have their own separate line of spells to use? And specifically in the Lunaverse, from what I recall they are essentially fey beings from another dimension, so how does that affect their magic, and would they have their own version of "dark magic"?

7760617
That's a good question. If it were me I'd say Changeling's have a degree of their own natural magic beyond the shape shifting, given we see them shoot lazers and Chrysalis cocoon things. But if it were me I'd say that outside of their shape shifting/enchantment abilities they are quite limited, but that they can sort of borrow the magical skills or at least signature of their victim if they have some kind of control over them, IE, why no one noticed Cadence's magic looked wrong, or felt wrong or was otherwise fucked up, we only saw it cos we are the audience, but to outsiders it just looked like regular Cadence magic.

7760657
Now that I think about it given their source of sustenance being emotions, I sort of like the notion that one of the Changeling's primary types of magic is based on emotions, with different types of spells falling into categories tuned to specific feelings. Like maybe attack spells generally are fueled by anger, defensive ones fueled by fear, healing fueled by love, ect. I also think that out of the various races we bring into the setting, Changelings might have a natural aptitude for alchemy as a magical art, given their ability to transform themselves might give them an affinity for chemicals both mundane and magical.

7762065

It sort of feels wrong that default changeling magic is 'dark', although there might be some version of what is considered good in our culture is considered evil in your culture. From what I recall of RDD's background the world the changelings come from is very hash and most of their culture is based around the survival of the hive as a whole, at least that's what the rank and file drones are taught, the high ups might have different ideas.

The idea of it being powered by different emotions seems interesting it might even give their magic the same or similar 'signature' to the elements of magic depending on what emotion is used for a spell.

7762152
That's sort of what I was thinking, that Changeling magic is almost less about 'spells' and more about manifesting effects based upon the emotions an individual Changeling is personally feeling, or has recently fed upon. Like beyond satiating hunger, feeding on emotions can make a Changeling stronger by providing fuel for their various magics, and there are separate disciplines depending on the types of emotions used to fuel them.

Like, logically aggressive emotions like anger would most likely fuel the offense based sphere of magic, but one could also focus on more refined and specific emotions like 'self anger' to fuel magic that makes one physically stronger, or 'retributive anger' creating a barrier that damages anyone that touches it. Gentler emotions might fuel various recovery based magic, or induce the equivalent of 'status effects' on opponents.

Princess Cadenza was left in charge of the sky.
https://sweet61.tumblr.com/post/700174937915277312

7762065
Given they seem to only feed on love I am unsure myself, but it could be made to work, the second idea fits well given their insectoid vibe.

7762210
I have often wondered if a changeling can feed on other emotions, although in this case I suppose we're talking exclusively about the Lunaverse as opposed to the show, which never delved very deep into the reasons changelings fed on love to begin with. I like to think changelings can feed on various emotions to different effect, it's just that love is the most potent and effective of food sources, generally being far more nourishing than any other emotion.

7762065
If heeling was powered by love, changelings would NEVER use it because they NEVER share love. Love is their primary sustenance and they horde it. Even as friendly as Ocellus is, the idea of sharing love is so antithetical to everything she has ever known that she can't really conceive of it.

This is pretty much of course all in reference to the show, where we know that willingly sharing love is what transformed the changelings from their black to multicolored forms.

7762152
I don't see anything wrong with changeling magic being innately dark, or rather I don't see anything wrong with the magic of the black changelings being dark. It is a corrupt/incomplete form, which is why their bodies are literally full of holes.

7762463
Pretty sure that while Ocellus has mentioned being able to taste other emotions, she's been very clear that she only gets sustenance from love. It's the difference between a spice and actual food.

Ugh...I'm so, so, so, so, so, so, so sorry that I've been gone for so long. I've had about a million things going on over the past...well, really long while. Gonna try and get my groove back.

7762463
My thinking is that changelings can eat all sorts of emotions, but emotions other than love are more snacks or spices then actual meals. As for why they need love specifically, I didn't put any thought into that, though given their origin in the Lunaverse - as survivors on a dying world wrecked by a magical-nuclear war - one thing I did consider is that ancient Protean changelings were reformed, technicolor love bugs, due to the war in some way, they became the all-black love-consuming changelings of the modern era.

By the way, I also didn't really consider, and don't think it matters, whether changelings are the ones who started the apocalyptic war, since even if the species did, all the specific changelings who did, even the queens, are long since dead and gone (it happened like 2,000 years ago and even queens only live about 500 at most, usually more like 300. I view Chrysalis as being relatively young for a queen but still at least in her 100s). The changelings themselves probably don't think they started it, though.

7760657
That's part of how I view their shapeshifting magic working - when they become a thing, they are that thing, fully and completely. So a changeling shifted into unicorn form, has unicorn magic, because they are a unicorn. But they're still limited by their own personal ability to use magic and their own magical reservoir, so for example while a changeling could become Luna and literally be an alicorn, they're still working with, like, 10 mana points while Luna has 100. And they're also limited by their own knowledge and can't copy cutie mark magic, so they wouldn't know specific spells that their target knows.

7755701
I still want Thorax to be "the" good changeling in that he's the one who cares about changelings as a whole, while Ocellus can be a good changeling but she mostly cares about her own well-being and the well-being of her friends as she makes them. Thorax would still be the one who leads the changelings into reformation, figuring it out first and showing the Hive how to do it. Basically I imagined him making friends in Ponyville and potentially creating a kind-of hilarious situation where Thorax and Ocellus are both changelings in disguise in Ponyville and don't know the other is even there, with the Luna-6 knowing about Thorax while Snails and his foal friends know about Ocellus.

Oh, the end-state I wanted for Season 3 as far as changelings was concerned was:

1. Protea is abandoned by the changelings. All 2.8 million of them are now refugees.
2. Chrysalis is still Queen of the Last Hive, though it's now being called the First Hive, as in, the First Hive in Equestria. Changelings who don't really trust the idea of reformation, or who retain more loyalty to her, remain with her. This is the majority of changelings, if only slightly. They set up shop in the contested lands between Zaldia and Cavallia, becoming a buffer state between the two and trying to help both mend fences. Eventually Chrysalis will probably embrace reformation, but for now she's still instilled with deep paranoia and is constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop...but she's willing to give peace a chance, for the moment.
3. Thorax is Queen of the New Hive (NB: "queen" is gender-neutral for changelings, he's still male). The New Hive will set up somewhere in Equestria, possibly scattered in a bunch of exclaves, though the main Hive would be in Corona's old volcano lair.
4. Ocellus decides to join up with neither Hive. She just reveals herself to Ponyville and lives there now. Many, many other changelings, especially among former infiltrators, also choose to join neither Hive.

And other things:
1. Trixie ends the season being formally created as the Viscountess of North Everfree.
2. Lyra & Bon Bon at the least get formally engaged, if not outright married.
3. Rainbow Dash joins the Wonderbolts reserve, which takes up a lot of her time...which results in Raindrops getting a promotion. Even though she didn't want it. But she eventually comes to realize she enjoys the job.
4. Ditzy Doo and Big Mac begin dating.
5. Cheerilee is fostering Spike.
6. Carrot Top is doing just fine throughout the season and it kind of weirds her out.
7. Celestia manages to pull off a few big PR moments, especially involving the changelings, that ends with her ending the season with an approval rating that's at least in the low double-digits.
8. However, between the Night Court's still poor reputation, other acts by nobles that have happened over seasons 1-3, Luna seeming to bend over backwards to forgive Celestia, the changeling nonsense, etc., trust in the government is rather low. We end the season with a certain, ahem, manifesto by one Starlight Glimmer being handed out in the streets of Fillydelphia...by a pink little pegasus filly who is just cute as a button! Golly, things sure could use some improving in Equestria...

7762876

3. Rainbow Dash joins the Wonderbolts reserve, which takes up a lot of her time...which results in Raindrops getting a promotion. Even though she didn't want it. But she eventually comes to realize she enjoys the job.

That's a plot angle I'd like to specifically take charge over. I've floated the idea before, but to reiterate. My idea for the story is that with Rainbow Dash leaving Ponyville, Cloudkicker would be next in line for promotion to weather captain, but as we've established, she suffers from chronic self-esteem and confidence issues. Because of that, Cloudkicker would try pressuring Raindrops into taking the job instead, however, not only does Raindrops adamantly not want the job and the burden of responsibility which goes with it, she reveals that she's technically not even qualified, lacking the specific educational certificates.

Cloudkicker still trying to pressure Raindrops into taking the job would tutor her to take the certification tests, and in doing so would show off just how good a leader she can actually be when she gets over her own anxiety issues. By the end of the story Raindrops does pass her certification test, but also manages to convince Cloudcicker to take the weather captain job. Cloudkicker does agree, but only under the stipulation that Raindrops accepts a promotion to her own prior job as the weather patrol's second in command. Raindrops would be outwardly reluctant and grumpy, but inwardly has come to terms with the fact that she's probably the best mare for the job.

7762837

Ugh...I'm so, so, so, so, so, so, so sorry that I've been gone for so long. I've had about a million things going on over the past...well, really long while. Gonna try and get my groove back.

It's okay man, believe me if there's anyone who can understand the fact that life overwhelms and consumes one's focus and time, I think its our group.

My thinking is that changelings can eat all sorts of emotions, but emotions other than love are more snacks or spices then actual meals. As for why they need love specifically, I didn't put any thought into that, though given their origin in the Lunaverse - as survivors on a dying world wrecked by a magical-nuclear war - one thing I did consider is that ancient Protean changelings were reformed, technicolor love bugs, due to the war in some way, they became the all-black love-consuming changelings of the modern era.

I would operate under the assumption that love is just a fundamentally needed emotion that packs a lot more dense "nutrients" than other emotions, like the world's most potent meal bar. Any thoughts on the idea that changelings have specific magic types based on the emotions that are used to fuel said magic? I mean, if their world ended in a big magical nuke war, that seems to suggest both sides had access to some high end magic, so I'm curious your thoughts on how changeling magic works and if it really is just shapeshifting or if they can access a set of spells of their own without necessarily having to transform into another magic using species to do it?

I still want Thorax to be "the" good changeling in that he's the one who cares about changelings as a whole, while Ocellus can be a good changeling but she mostly cares about her own well-being and the well-being of her friends as she makes them. Thorax would still be the one who leads the changelings into reformation, figuring it out first and showing the Hive how to do it. Basically I imagined him making friends in Ponyville and potentially creating a kind-of hilarious situation where Thorax and Ocellus are both changelings in disguise in Ponyville and don't know the other is even there, with the Luna-6 knowing about Thorax while Snails and his foal friends know about Ocellus.

*nod* That works for me, although I'm curious if you've got any specific notions for Pharynx, and if you object to me making use of both Pharynx and Thorax within a story to sort of set up the brothers dynamic? I figure Pharynx is at least somewhat similar to the show version in that he's fairly hardline to the traditional ways of the Hive, with a focus on pragmatism and survival of the Hive being held above pretty much any other virtue or factor. Probably takes his job just a tad too seriously and sees threats everywhere and makes tactical assessments under the assumption that just about everyone and everything is out to "get" the Hive. I more or less see him as potentially Chrysalis' right hoof bug and confidant.

7762876
Given this state of affairs at the end of Season 3 I can also see Pharynx sticking close with Chrysalis, although depending on how the brothers' relationship develops there might be enough trust between him and Thorax that they stay in communication, perhaps Thorax hoping that if he can convince his brother of the value in the reformation process that Pharynx could then convince Chrysalis.

3, Luna seeming to bend over backwards to forgive Celestia, the changeling nonsense, etc., trust in the government is rather low. We end the season with a certain, ahem, manifesto by one Starlight Glimmer being handed out in the streets of Fillydelphia...by a pink little pegasus filly who is just cute as a button! Golly, things sure could use some improving in Equestria...

Oh, now there's a pairing I hadn't considered. Color me intrigued. Got to be a story behind how those two met up.

7762891
Right, I remember that! That sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

7762914

Oh, now there's a pairing I hadn't considered. Color me intrigued. Got to be a story behind how those two met up.

Hadn't considered it. I just think Starlight would make a neat antagonist for a Season 4 as sort of a re-tread of the Night Court, in that her power is political rather than magical. Only she's coming from the bottom up rather than the top down, and fighting a war of ideas that she genuinely believes in. I'd wanted to really look into anarchism as a basis for her, and of course she'd need lieutenants and something about Cozy Glow intrigued me, probably because I sort of saw her as paralleling Gavroche to an extent, mostly because when I first saw Les Mis my dad nicknamed him "The Littlest Anarchist".

Cozy may or may not be working her own scheme within Starlight's anarchist movement, of course.

I can also see Pharynx sticking close with Chrysalis

That was the idea, yeah. And yeah, I'm fine with you using Thorax and Pharynx. At present Pharynx has been mentioned in The 'Ling from Another World and Ocellus' Ordinary Day as a Hive Lord under which Ocellus served, but details are largely sparse in those stories, and intentionally so.

Any thoughts on the idea that changelings have specific magic types based on the emotions that are used to fuel said magic? I mean, if their world ended in a big magical nuke war, that seems to suggest both sides had access to some high end magic

I think changelings can cast some spells, but I was hoping it would be limited to keep them distinct from ponies, though yeah, I can see them getting specific boosts from specific emotions. When I said "magical nuclear", by the way, I meant both magical and nuclear: Protea was a very advanced world once upon a time. There's a nonzero chance that they actually have an atomic warhead on Protea still lying around.

7763022

Only she's coming from the bottom up rather than the top down, and fighting a war of ideas that she genuinely believes in. I'd wanted to really look into anarchism as a basis for her,

Obviously season 4 is a long way off, but whenever you decide you're ready to start "looking into anarchism" I could recommend quite a few resources.

Cozy may or may not be working her own scheme within Starlight's anarchist movement, of course.

Again, long way off and way too early to set anything in stone. From where I sit right now, however, I would want Starlight to be a genuine believer in her own cause, and who makes legitimately valid points. Meanwhile, I would want Cozy to be a scheming lieutenant looking to exploit the movement for her own gains (I'd also want to make Cozy be an adult who only looks like a child, just like her supposed Babydoll inspiration).

can see them getting specific boosts from specific emotions. When I said "magical nuclear", by the way, I meant both magical and nuclear

On the subject of both, didn't you once say or at least imply that the emotion hate should be literally toxic to changings? A literal hate bomb as a world ending device could certainly make for an interesting concept.

7762891

Similar to your idea i've always like the idea of Raindrops going to university at some point, possibly only part time but at least something which resulted in her having to spend extended time away from her family and friends so that she's forced out of her shell a bit.

7763083
I'd honestly prefer not. We've already got Lyra, Cherilee, and Trixie who are all confirmed college graduates... maybe even Carrot Top too. I like having at least one counter examples of a character like Raindrops who can be perfectly content in her professional life without feeling any need to peruse additional education, and who is that way not due to lack of opportunity, but purely as a matter of personal choice. I also don't see her as having much of a shell to break out of, she isn't shy. To whatever extent she might be a tad socially withdrawn it's because she can get easily frustrated and prefers to not lose her temper in public, but I think a promotion into a managerial position with the weather patrol can show enough character growth on becoming more socially engaged.

If we were going to do a back-to-school arc with any character, I think Ditzy would be a better choice. She's a character who didn't really have a choice about college. As a single mother who ran away from her own family, she had to scrape every penny just to support her new daughter. Now that Dinky is both getting older, and also has a half-sister in town to help look after her, Ditzy could have the free time she needs to peruse a degree she might have always wanted but never had the chance before.

Wild idea, a villain revives the Smooze and fuses with it seeking sort of godhood but is ultimately consumed by it after a musical number. IE:

7762463
A fair thought to consider, I'm a bit unsure myself, I think them being natural empaths makes a certain amount of sense given their skill-set and feeding habits, but if they can feed of any emotion even if love is the best, I do wonder if that might make things too easy for them ya know?
7762837
No worries I've been gone longer than you and still not sure I can even write anything coherent at the moment >< I hope things are going OK for you RL.

Oh snap that is an incredibly metal origin story and makes their alien vibes really interesting, though I guess that means we aren't going with the more fae-like version, which isn't inherently bad but surprising and intriguing.

Hmm, so with the context of Alicorns does that make Chrysalis like a demigod in comparison to their deities?

Seems quite reasonable and intriguing, glad the idea for how their magic works, well, works XD

7762876
Sounds like an interesting end to the Changelings arc, I'll admit I was pretty meh on the reformation of canon but I like the political angles to this and also I think Lyra and Bonbon getting married is thematically fitting for an arc built around love eaters and the power of love.

The government stuff is certainly interesting, glad Celestia is at least able to start getting better and also wow, communist Starlight and Cozy Glow?
7763022
However on the Starlight Glimmer front if she is actually a true believer I am unsure she'd 'have' lieutenants as anarchism is a very none hierarchal ideology and also pointedly none violent. The hot topic anarchism's of the Red Lotus seen in Avatar isn't even based on real life anarchism its functionally a fictional creation of the media. This is kind of the issue with a lot of 'Communist villain' narratives written by Westerners including Korra's & MLP's, with the person behind it in canon being revealed to not actually be part of the underclass but the upper class just seeking more power, as an attempt to undermine the presentation of the ideology. Not saying you are trying to do that just noting its a tricky tightrope to walk.

7763238

anarchism is a very none hierarchal ideology and also pointedly none violent

In theory, sure; in practice, anarchism produces violent people the same as any other political movement; check out the French idea of propagande par le fait, for example; the article has a fair number of attempted and successful violent actions by anarchists.

Also "lieutenant" might be the wrong word, but anarchist movements invariably produce leaders even if they don't acknowledge them as such; people who are just better at rhetoric and organization and so rise to de facto leadership positions. Cozy wouldn't have any formal position; heck, Starlight wouldn't. But Cozy would be someone Starlight trusts to do stuff, alongside several others, I'm sure, and Starlight herself would be de facto leader of her movement.

7763249
eerr, urrg... Uuuh, I get you, but at the same time, :/ I dunno, I'll leave it.

Fair enough.

7763249 7763293
While I agree with RDD that any given political movement has the potential to produce violent extremists, I also get where Vazak might feel apprehensive in this regard, specifically because anarchism tends to get a worse wrap in fictional media representation. That's why if we do make Starlight Glimmer an anarchist, or any other flavor of radical leftist, I would want to see her as genuine true believer reflective of real political ideology and not just a strawmare parody.

All that said, no need to get into any arguments over representation of a season 4 character when haven't even started 3 yet. I'll just leave it at being known that assuming I'm still hanging around these forums when the time for such discussions to begin in earnest comes, I'm probably gonna have some very strong opinions.

7763022

I think changelings can cast some spells, but I was hoping it would be limited to keep them distinct from ponies, though yeah, I can see them getting specific boosts from specific emotions. When I said "magical nuclear", by the way, I meant both magical and nuclear: Protea was a very advanced world once upon a time. There's a nonzero chance that they actually have an atomic warhead on Protea still lying around.

I could understand that, given transformation is kind of their thing, so mimicking the abilities of others is what they do best. This does make me think then that "shapes" would therefore be the changeling equivalent of spells, and given Protea's current wasteland state, a lot of species were decimated or gradually died off and don't exist anymore. This would mean that knowledge of certain species shapes and abilities would become precious knowledge, as no more members of said species exist for changelings to learn from naturally, so the only way for those shapes and knowledge of how to take them could pass on would be for them to be taught from one changeling to another. In this way you might have certain changelings who are masters of the ancient shapes and only doll out knowledge of how to take those shapes on to select apprentices, although some masters might be more generous than others in sharing certain shapes to keep the knowledge preserved rather than risk losing it if they end up dying before passing down how to change into certain forms.

7763053

Again, long way off and way too early to set anything in stone. From where I sit right now, however, I would want Starlight to be a genuine believer in her own cause, and who makes legitimately valid points. Meanwhile, I would want Cozy to be a scheming lieutenant looking to exploit the movement for her own gains (I'd also want to make Cozy be an adult who only looks like a child, just like her supposed Babydoll inspiration).

I suppose the sky's the limit a bit when it comes to Cozy Glow, because she literally has no background, hence we can essentially make it almost anything and have it be plausible. She doesn't even have to be a pony. Granted I'm generally in favor of keeping her a pony, and personally prefer the idea of her being a highly intelligent (in some respects) filly that simply takes advantage of her age to get others to underestimate her. Whichever direction we go, we've got a ways to work it out, but I do hope to pin down her background and motivations before we get there.

For now I'm going to try to stay focused on Season 3, since that's basically what's coming up next for me soon as I wrap up Contest.

7763238

A fair thought to consider, I'm a bit unsure myself, I think them being natural empaths makes a certain amount of sense given their skill-set and feeding habits, but if they can feed of any emotion even if love is the best, I do wonder if that might make things too easy for them ya know?

Well to a degree I think that actually plays into their motivations for invading Equestria, you know? Back on Protea any positive emotion at all is probably in dangerously short supply. I'm willing to say that, at best, sustenance requires "positive" emotions to fuel, like it adds energy to the changeling, whereas "negative" emotions can grant temporary boosts (which in some cases can feel powerful) but don't sustain and ultimately drain a changeling faster (think a caffeine or sugar rush, then the crash afterward). So Equestria being a world that's just bursting at the seams with positive emotions just makes it look like some perfect garden of Eden wonderland that the changelings have every reason to view as a viable target.

So in trying to work out my ideas for a Season 3 story, one question I want to ask in general is how do we see the development of the conflict with the changelings? I mean, I know now that the intent is for a somewhat unsteady truce to exist with Chrysalis' hive by the end of Season 3 and some changelings following Thorax's new reformed group, but do we have a general notion of what steps we want to take to get to that point? I feel like Season 3 should perhaps be less focused on overall action and adventure and have more of a feeling of intrigue, espionage, investigation, spy thriller kind of stuff with a healthy dose of moral and ethical philosophy and psychological exploration. This feels, in my mind at least, like a Season that should have a lot of themes about identity, exploring different viewpoints on ethics, ect.

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Espionage and intrigue seems about right. I know RDD wanted to build up some of the initial season similar to when the Shadows first started showing up in Babylon 5 and Mr.Morden was going around asking people, "What do you want?" only with the changeling catchphrase instead being, "What do you love?".

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The Morden thing was to an extent intended to be a way to have red herrings as well; characters could ask it who turn out not to be changelings.

Overall the goal of the changelings is to isolate Cavallia - make it so that Equestria is too busy with internal matters, or matters elsewhere, to stave off a brewing conflict between Cavallia and Zaldia that’s being orchestrated by Chrysalis as a means of seizing both nations.

And yes, a season that has a lot of themes around identity and viewpoints sounds good. The changelings are not evil, at least not as a race - it isn’t evil for a race to not want to starve to death. They see themselves as trapped in a zero-sum situation.

Does Dinky have godparents? As in someone who would be first in line likely adopt her is something happened to Ditzy.

I'm sure it's crossed Ditzy's mind given that being a bearer is hardly the safest of roles.

Logically Ditzy's parents would seem to be the most likely, but she might ask one of the other bearers (putting aside the fact that anything that happens to one might happen to the rest) Cherilee would probably seem to be the bet given her experience with foals but Trixie or even Lyra / Bon Bon might be possibilities.

Outside of the main cast Silver Script might be a possibility as he seems quite close to Dinky and Ditzy. Sparker might also be a possibility but I doubt Ditzy would want to put such a responsibility on the young mare she already thinks she's done wrong.

Any other ideas?

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While it's not quite the same thing, I think we've had Raindrops/Snails parents take care of Dinky while Ditzy is off doing hero stuff.

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Hmm, with the changelings focusing on isolating Cavallia, and stoking the fire of conflict with Zaldia, I think it'd be good to have a small cast of characters from each of those countries whom have both their own individual stories, and can then interweave with the L6's adventures as they start to uncover the truth about the changelings and what's causing the conflict to brew. I was going to have my first Season 3 story center on the L6 taking a vacation of sorts, and thinking about it, Cavallia might be a good place for them to find an ideal resort to go to, which would then allow me to introduce a few Cavallian specific characters alongside a changeling or two. Does Cavallia have an intelligence apparatus, or at least what constitutes their law enforcement?

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It must - every nation does - but it hasn’t been detailed yet.

Cavallia’s “thing” is that family is extremely important to them. This extends into the government in one of its flaws as a nation - nepotism is rampant, you don’t really have much of a chance of advancing unless you know someone or better yet are someone’s cousin or something. Most of the most important people in government are descended from Cadance’s adopted children over the years.

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If nothing else, Ditzy would certainly have set up one or more potential guardians after the argument between Puissance and Ditzy in Ice Hearts (the one right before the windigo attacked the hotel, where Puissance explicitly 'offered' to raise Dinky if Ditzy should be found to be an unfit mother. Ditzy would want to make certain that there's other possibilities so some rich jerk can't just swoop in to take her child).

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Well to go with the Catholic church side of things Cavallia has the Vatican has the Corps Gendarmerie and the Swiss Guard as their police.

To match the Swiss guard (or Varangian Guard) it might be interested if there is at least one state security organization which is in fact made entirely of mercenaries from outside of the state itself purely to stop nepotism within the organization, if none of them come from Cavallia then of them can theoretically be swayed by the wishes of the various families within the country. Probably some MI5 style internal security service.

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I know I'm late but if I could add to the Starlight thing. I think her being a totalitarian dictator in the making is better.

It fits her first appearance really well. She doesn't believe in any of the junk she's saying she just wants power and control over others.

You can take original apearence Starlight and switch it so instead of equality she's promoting Pony Supremicism and it would be the same character. That's how I feel and I think that would be a cool idea for the Lunaverse.

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes or being rude Rainbowdoubledash

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#3 Corona sneaks cake
Remember, Mare Antoinette started the Prench revolution with her famous battle cry
"Let someone ELSE eat cake!"

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What I know of British nobility is from reading British novels (Wodehouse, Christie, Doyle, some others) mostly written pre WW2 or Regency novels.

There are some lower titles:
Baronet (Bart for short) & Knight (Sir or Dame depending) Knighthood isn't hereditary, IDK about baronets. You aren't just given a title you are Earl (or whatever) of someplace. Monty Max is Baron of Nulpar for example.

Nobility also has hereditary jobs:
judgeships, vicars, military commands, etc. You can do them yourself or appoint someone to do them for you.

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While I would agree that in her very first appearance from the show Starlight comes across as someone who only cares about control, but on her return she turned out to be a true believer whose methods just happened to be hypocritical and subsequently expressed genuine desire to atone for her past misdeeds. Whenever we get around to introducing Starlight in the Lunaverse, I would really rather it likewise be as nuanced character. Someone whose methods cause problems, but with good intentions that might even sway some of the L6 to sympathize with her cause. (TVtropes--Well Intentioned Extremist).

Besides, if we wanted an overzealous totalitarian pony supremacist, Chancellor Neighsay would be a much better fit.

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Well Neigsayer is a pony supremcist because he actually believes in the stuff. If og Starlight were to talk Pony Supremecy it would be soley to gain power.

It does makes sense trying to have Starlight be a well intentioned extremist. And I would love to see that.

But if I'm honest OG Starlight was my favorite MLP villain and I love her so much and I really want to see more of Starlight the brilliant, cynical cult leader out for power. Whose stregth lies not in her magic but in her intelligence and charisma. I miss that villain alot.

That's not really about Lunaverse and I look forward to seeing Lunaverses Starlight

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Honestly, I also really loved OG Starlight as a hypocritical villain who would preach anything to gain power and control. I really didn't care for the way her initial reform was handled, and if it had been up to me, would have taken a drastically different approach to the origins of her anti-cutiemark rhetoric. That said, the way she was handled after that initial reform really won me over.

Regardless, the Lunaverse is a much more political setting than the show, and so I think RDD's take on her as an anarchist/socialist revolutionary has incredible potential.

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Thats true. And I am also excited to see how RDD handle's it. But I'm also glad I have met another Starilight hypocritical villian lover. I haven't found anybefore and I am really happy.

On that note. Do you take commisions? I would pay you to write a story with OG Starlight.

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Sorry was I being rude? I'm really sorry

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No, not rude... just caught me on short notice is all and I didn't have time to respond last night.

I'm not really sure I've got enough ideas to write a whole Starlight fic, but I'm at least willing to bounce some ideas around if you send me a PM.