2190988
Hey, remember that Griffon stuff you posted in a brainstorming thread a while back that I've spend the last hour trying to find to reference for my story? Think you could post that someplace easier to find...like here? Specifically I'm looking for what you said on the young griffons traveling places; the placeholder name i've got atm is a "flyabout" but that's just stupid

2201967
Transcribed from the Map of the World thread. These were the background notes I concted while writing Griffin Over the Line (also this was all written up prior to Ch4 of my fic so only refrences events from the first 3 chapters). Naturally none of this is 100% canon unless you choose to use them as such. Also since the Griffin Empires are divded into city states it's quite possible that these particular tradions might only apply to the region Gilda hails from.

"LEAVING THE NEST"
Young adult griffins are generally expected to their leave their home cities, roam the wilds of the hunting grounds and visit other city-states throughout their kingdom, before eventually settling down in a different city (though that last part isn't strict and maybe only about 50/50 accurate in modern times). It is also not uncommon for griffins in this stage to travel further abroad, visiting other nations. If it isn't obvious, Gilda is currently at this stage of her life.

The custom exists for several reasons; 1) it helps teach the youngsters to be self-reliant; 2) it prevents the city states from becoming overly isolationist from each other; 3) encourage cultural and genetic diversity; 4) it gets the rambunctious youths out of town, preventing their reckless tendencies from tearing down the foundations of griffin civilization.

"PECKING ORDER"
The griffin society runs on a fairly linear hierarchy based largely on assertiveness, though linage certainly tends to factor in to the equation, but also just tends to go hand-in-hand with griffins from more prestigious families having more clout by which to assert themselves. As griffins tend to see it, anyone who roles over when shoved around deserves to be shoved around. They can seem like bullies, picking on those weaker than themselves but tend to see it themselves as a way of keeping order by reminding those of lower station to keep their place, even those near the bottom of the societal rungs. A lesser griffin tends to feel uncomfortable if left completely on there own.

While this might seem to lead to a very violent culture, griffins prefer to cow and intimidate rather than engage in overtly aggressive action. In fact, older griffins tend to consider resorting to physical violence to be a sign immaturity and inability to properly assert ones dominance. Younger, griffins are more prone to enjoy violence for its own sake, but still prefer to avoid it when possible; Getting injured during one's migratory phase can be a great way to miss one's next birthday. This will likely factor into the inventible confrontation at the climax of GOtL.

It is also important to note that while they have little respect for social timidness, griffins are still very protective of those they care about, and respectful of that quality in others. As such a griffin will not overly assert itself against a seemingly weaker individual that is under someone else direct protection. had all this made it into GOtL, Trixie was going to point out that because Raindrops not only made Gilda back down, but did so while defending Carrot Top that Gilda's respectful deference would apply to them both.

In a related bit of info, here's an excerpt by Fizzy Orange from earlier in that same thread which helped inspire some of the above.

>>Fizzy Orange

the Griffin Kingdoms seem HUGE but at the same time I kinda imagine it being actually a cluster of mountain peak cities with lots of wild hunting grounds all around, like it's literally a bunch of 'islands' with their own territortial 'water' in a 'sea' of wilderness rather than one solid mass of red.

2202491
Appreciated :D

Huh... I wish there was a better name for the "Leaving the Nest" rite, though, just doesn't seem catchy enough for a cultural tradition...

2202779
The labels were more meant for external categorisation by authors. If you want to come up with something else for the griffins themselves to refer to it, then by all means feel free to do so. Although as they are part bird, I do feel that phraes like "leaving the nest", "migratory phase", and "pecking order" are thematicly fitting, agiang though feel free to tweek anything you like. They are part lion too though, so I supose that might also be a place to look for inspiration.

So I need some names for Carrot Top's parents... I was thinking her father would have a name similar to her, like 'Head of Lettuce' or maybe 'Celeri Head' (for the stealth reference...) or maybe just 'Cabbage'. Her mother on the other hand would have a grain based name to match with Sweet Wheat. I was thinking of 'Millet', with or without a second word added.

2219879
Millet Grass? Millet Cereal? Millet Staple? I dunno.

2219879
I realy couldn't say about the mother, but I relly like Celeri Head, or possibly Cabbage Top. Yeah ponies don't nessosarly have last names the way we do, and Sweet Wheat proves this is such a family (or at least that if their is a familial name it's neither Top nor Wheat), but at the same time their's no Reason CT couldn't still be partially named after her dad anyway.

2224159>>2224383 I was thinking that her family simply follows pattern like naming kids after part of plants (though it's possible that, legally at least, CT's family name is 'Harvest', it's just not used in everyday life, kinda like how my middle name is Carl but it's only used on my birth certificate) so maybe something like Sweet Millet but with a different word so its not redundant... Yellow Millet? Green Millet?

2227274
I wouldn't mind Sweet Millet. For the same reason I kinda likethe idea of CT sharing part of her name with her father (if you went with Cabage Top), little Noi could be named after their mother.

After all, we already have Twilight Sparkle seemingly having been named after her own mother, Twilight Velvet.

2228719 Fair point then.

Though 'cabbage top' doesn't sound like a real part of a vegetable, no? Maybe Celeri Top? Brocoli Top? Squash Top?

2227274
CARL THE CORN FARMER?!?!

...What? He has complete power over corn...

2224159>>2231065>>2228719 Here is some tentative design for Cabbage Top

and Sweet Millet

What do you guys think?

2423554
Oh gods the girl looks like she's straight out of Berkeley...or w/e the horse version of that is.

And the guy looks like a cousin I have who quit a football scholarship to focus on his neighborhood organic garden.

...In short, frighteningly appropriate.

So maybe we should start working on this thing again right?

2568379
I'd like to. First order of business is finishing off the Luna-6, I think.

2570132
So a few things.

FIRST: I seem to recall somewhere it being discussed (in a fic or brainstorming) that Twilight Velvet was the biological air to the house of Starlight and the Night Lite married into the family, however, I've been unable to figure out where that was said though ,and so am wondering if that was instead just my own head-canon. It's something that sort of factors into the next chapter of EoI, but as I was writing it out I realized that it might be good to get confirmation first. It's not a big deal though so if I was in error I can revise/drop the scene that mentions it.

SECOND: going through my old files I found a profile entry for Cheerilee that I was working on at some point, but apparently never got around to actually submitting for some reason or another. It's probably still in need of refinement and expansion, notably in the history section, but that's why this is a discussion thread -- also the format isn't quite identical to the finalized versions since I started before Trixie and Raindrops had profiles. I apologize for any undesirable head-canon that may have snuck in, but again that's why we have this discussion thread.

Notably, I took liberties with her cutie mark talent, but mostly to expand upon it, not to replace anything. As with how her sister's talent for mixing things applies to more than just bartending, I thought it was important for Cheerilee's talent to have an equally wider range of application beyond just teaching, as well as something befiting her more reckless teenaged years when she would presumably have her mark but not yet be appling it as a teacher.

Other than that I tried to draw from RDD's original character profile. I added in her rogue-like skill set, as most prominently seen in Hero of Oaton, and her temperament issues form Scootalong. I condensed "oblivious" and "condescending" into a single entry as I'm not sure we've observed those traits in isolation, but rather as related issues that feed into each other. I did, however, also add a caveat to her organizational abilities to suggest other places her obliviousness could be applied (which is something I intend to expand upon in the drill sergeant fic I'm planning). I dropped "optimism", not because Cheerilee isn't but because I don't think she been shown to be all that much more so than any other pony, and in fact Scootalong seemed to suggest a certain amount of cynical pessimism, at least while under stress. I'm not sure I'd go quite so far as to say any optimism on her part is a facade, but it does feel like she's not entirely as positive as she otherwise acts either.

Cheerilee

Physical Description: Cheerilee is a female earth pony with a deep plum colored coat, two-tone pink mane/tail, and dull-green eyes. Her cutie mark is a trio of smiling flowers, although occasionally other ponies mistake them for suns, which can on occasion cause minor troubles for Cheerilee.
Special Talent: Helping others "bloom" in joy – specifically, Cheerilee applies this talent to the education and nurturing of eager young minds with knowledge so that they can grow to their full potential. However, in her wild youth she applied it to more hedonistic ends.
Element: Laughter
Occupation: elementary school teacher

Character History: Cheerilee's full name is Blackcherry Lee Punch. She is the second of three children born to a pair of local vineyardists in Ponyville. During her adolescent years, she led a rather recklessly lifestyle; however, after an unfortunate incident while abroad in the Griffin Empires endangered the life of a close friend, Cheerilee decided that ignorance was certainly not bliss, so buckled down and began studying to become a school teacher.

Defining Characteristics:
• Trivia Buff – Cheerilee peruses not just the education of others, but of herself as well. This gives her wealth of knowledge upon with to draw, including strange and esoteric topics... including, but not limited to, a plethora of intimately romantic techniques (with a variety of cross-species pairings) and a rather exceptional command of obscure Equestrian legal codes.
• Organizer – Cheerilee is very good at making sure everything, and everypony, is in its proper place. She has a keen mind for pattern recognition and tactics. Trixie might be the face and ostensive leader of Elements of Harmony, but Cheerilee is often the brains. She can, however, at times get so focused on the big picture, that she loses sight of the trees for the forest, causing her to occasionally become oblivious the needs of the ponies around her as distinct individuals.
• Unusual Skills – As a legacy of her colorful past, Cheerilee has a wide range of talents that one would not expect from an otherwise seemingly mild mannered school teacher. Her combat skills are equal (if not superior) to Raindrops, though less formally polished and no hesitancy to incorporate "dirty" techniques. She also has an expertise in stealth and lock-picking that seem unsavory in origins, though when inquired Cheerilee will typically claim benign purposes, "When it's 3 AM and a girl's too drunk to remember where she put her keys, she needs some way to get back into her home."

Flaws/Weaknesses:
• Limited Social Life – When she's not teaching, making lesson plans, or furthering educating herself, Cheerilee finds herself with little free time to go about meeting and hanging out with other ponies. This is a flaw she is all too keenly aware of since it was to an extent an intentional sacrifice when she transitioned out of her more wild youth, and while she doesn't really regret that choice she does sometimes miss here old carefree attitudes. She is, however, steadily branching out again since gaining a close camaraderie with her fellow Elements of Harmony.
• Obliviously Condescending – Never by intent, but as a pony who spends the bulk of her time teaching young children, it's easy for her to forget she's not in the classroom. She may also sometimes mistake a pony's discomfort in discussing a topic for ignorance, and so press the subject in an attempt to "educate" them.
• Conspiratorial Paranoia – A minor side effect of her keen mind for pattern recognition. Sometimes Cheerilee will see patterns where only coincidental circumstances exist, and if sufficiently stressed may jump to conclusions.

Goals: Her main stated goal is to simply bring joy to her students and enrich their young minds. Eventually though she'd like to start her own family and raise foals of her own. Unfortunate having left so much of her former social life behind to focus on her educational studies, she sometimes worries that she may never find the time or the right pony to settle down with. The fact that her older sister was already more successful and secure when she was younger than Cheerilee is now hardly helps.

Notable Relations: Berry Punch (older sister), Peña Colada (significantly younger sister), Lyra & BonBon (foalhood friends), pet fish (so many she uses an alphanumeric filing system to name them).

Notable Episodes: Scootalong to the Cheer; Hero of Oaton

I was apparently also working on one of these for Clover Charms, who I can more comfortably go into detail about, being an OC of my own creation, but at the same time I'm not sure how extensive an entry we want for side-characters like her.

2730279

FIRST: I seem to recall somewhere it being discussed (in a fic or brainstorming) that Twilight Velvet was the biological air to the house of Starlight and the Night Lite married into the family, however, I've been unable to figure out where that was said though ,and so am wondering if that was instead just my own head-canon.

Gala; Night Light mentions it at the Gala itself, though no real reason is given as to why he's viceroy instead of Velvet.

2730279 : Notary should be listed as a notable relation, based on the stuff we learned in Old Friends.

2730370
Ahh, thanks. I did seem to recall there wasn't much explanation for that, though I was planning on touching upon that during the scene I'm currently working on.

2730476
Good point, as mentioned before though, this was something I dug up while sifting through some older stuff and so it predates that fic... wait, I think I've still not actually read that fic... I'm not even sure I was aware you'd published it. Probably need to fix that gap in my personal knowledge base post haste.

Oh, and while I seemingly have both your attentions…

THIRD: I know Puissance is supposed to have lots of children (because it's one more thing she can claim to "own"), but was unsure if we ever specified an exact number. If not then Wikipedia's list of mothers with many children ranges from 15-69. The large of those two numbers is undoubtedly too high (especially as it involves a lot of twins and triplets), but I was unsure where in relation to the lower number might be. Probably still too high, as collector or not that would still be an awful lot of time she had to spend just carrying them (all the more so with ponies having an extra two months over humans), but by how much I was again unsure.

2730573
I think I said "seven" in Gala, but I'm not sure, and that story scares me so I don't want to check.

It's in the same chapter that introduced Scepter/Flicker, though.

2730685
Yes it is seven, searching for the number dropped me straight to it. I failed to find it on a first sweep because of all the terms for children I ctrl-f'd, I didn't think to try "foal". I'm apparently a very bad pony fan.

2570132
BTW, the basic facts on Twilight's profile should probably be updated to reflect that in S2 forward her job is Ponyville Librarian, though probably while retaining mention of her former "occupation" from S1…

Job: Ponyville Librarian (formerly a fugitive from the law, but now under house arrest and performing community service).

…unless that will just be relegated to her history section once she's got a more extensive file entry.

In case no one noticed I've compiled together a timeline of events and it was added to the series bible thread.

Here is something I put together for Diamond Dogs. I tried to put in some Bowie song titles references.

Diamond Dogs

The Diamond Dogs of Equestria belong to a subterranean race known as the Cheeroonear who originate on the distant Stardust Island, far in the South Sea. The native Cheeroonears live in complex underground networks of tunnels and buried cities, the biggest of which is called Glass Spider, and live in amicable symbiosis with the ponies and camels who settled the mostly arid plains of the island a few centuries ago. The Cheeroonear are excellent miners and the island's soil is rich with rare gems such as opals. Ponies and Camel have long standing trade agreements that proft both sides equally, making Stadust Island a thriving and dynamic country.

In Cheeroonear culture, which believes in reincarnation, diamonds are sacred religious artifact said to hold souls in between lives. Today's Diamond Dogs are descendants of a group who committed the terrible crime of SELLING diamonds to outsiders, and were exiled for it. The heretics moved to the gem-rich Equestria where they illegally settled underground, and soon were joined by all manners of exiled and expat who fled their homeland. Diamond Dog society is split into various 'unions': autonomous democratic units that are centered around a specific trade, such as mining or stone work construction. They trade favors with one another or with ponies for anything they might need, hiring themselves out to anyone willing to pay.

Diamond Dogs try to stay out of the affairs of the surface world, and keep other folks out of their buisness, as such they make no qualm working for criminals or even Corona because they don't generally care what happens to Equestria. Since they value their privacy they are exceedingly discreet and most ponies never realize if they live above a Diamond Dog mine, as they rarely come to the surface unless there is something to be gained. This does not, however, prevent them from having a generally bad reputation amongst ponies. Diamond Dogs are excellent diggers who can move through loose soil at surprising speed, and their strong paws are capable of minute manipulations. They speak Cheeroon, their native language, with one another but all Diamond Dogs speak common Equestrian, albeit with an heavy accent and often slipping into Cheeroon sentence structure. They also have a sensitive sense of hearing and tend to dislike ponies, specifically mares, because the pitch of their voices can be grating on their ears. They have no formal cities but they have mines that serve as hubs of population, the biggest ones being Hideaway, Black Country Rock, Velvet Goldmine, Moss Garden and Crack City.

There, how's that?

Updated the bible! Sorry, Fizzy, I missed your post. Added it in along with my stereotypes from earlier. I also finally finished the unicorn entry.

At some point in the near future, I'll also be putting up the dragons.

2799313

Do you think it would make sense to update the series bible with stuff from later in the series, e.g., the World Tour?

7217066
Huh, I didn't get a notification for this. Anyway, yes, it would, but I struggle to find time to get anything done as-is.

Here is a brief rundown of Puissance's family tree. She has 8 children in total and two husbands, that she was in a joint polyamorous relationship with. Flashing Posey is Fragrant's grand-uncle and Puissance's first husband to die. Magnific was her first child to die, and he died at a very young age sadly. Despite appearances, Puissance's had never quite gotten over his death.

I left quite a bit blank for others to add in later. If you have anything you wish to add, just post it here and I will edit the family tree.

7326139

I think it was determined at some point that Flicker's dad is named Banner, and his mom (Puissance's eldest daughter) Regalia. It's that way in AtGGG.

Are Puissance and Posey being related something you came up with or has that been already established?

7328562

Wait, isn't Flicker Puissance's great-grandson? Or am I getting this wrong? Also, Puissance and Posey are married, not related. I believe Flashing Posey being one of her husbands is something Talon came up with.

7328581

Yes. Puissance's eldest daughter is Regalia, Regalia's son (Puissance's grandson) is Banner, and Banner's son (Puissance's great grandson) is Scepter/Flicker.

7328592

Ah, I see. I was being silly. I changed it above. Does that look better? By the way, has Flicker's mother's name been mention yet?

7328909

The new chart is correct with respect to Scepter/Flicker's ancestry, yes.

I don't think she's been named, no.

It seems odd that Puissance now has both a son and a grandson named Banner.

7328921

Hmm, you're right. Rainbowdoubledash said in the brainstorming thread that one of her son's name is Banner according to Lunaverse canon. I suppose they could both be Banner and Regalia is fond of her half brother?

7328995

Maybe something to ask RDD about. He might have meant 'grandson' instead of 'son.' To the best of my knowledge, Puissance having a grandson named Banner is canonical (in AtGGG), but her having a son named Banner is not.