Like as in when Equestria popped up on earth and where, when the conversion bureau was established, etc etc?

3145266 There are multiple Conversion Bureau universes, each with different start-dates, locations, and major events.

3145266 Not exactly what you asked, but Dafaddah is writing a timeline for a future in which Equestria doesn't appear and no conversion bureau is ever established:

* This Quiet Earth

It details and explicits the dystopic-turned-post-apocalyptic background upon which Equestria's appearance, and then ponification with it, becomes the single reasonable solution to prevent humanity's extinction. (Although, evidently, every author who uses a background similar to this one will have it be a little or a lot different from the one he's developing.)

Disclaimer: I'm pre-reading and helping edit it. Also, it's based on a suggestion of mine. So I'm doubly biased towards how nice I think it's becoming.

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I have a definite timeline.

I never, ever set an exact date. The reason for this is: Blade Runner, Space 1999, Star Trek and Back To The Future. In all of these movies and television shows, absolute year dates are given... and all of them will be entirely wrong by 2019. Setting an exact date in science fiction is a certain path to becoming 'the future that never was'. Not setting a date makes any story timeless - it can always still happen, it is always 'yet to come' in the reader's, or viewer's mind. Of course, a date set far enough that no reader's grandchildren could still be alive is safe... but even then, I think it better to never give a date.

That does not mean you cannot have a timeline of events, however!

The timeline for my TCB future history is roughly this:

Sometime within the next twenty years from whenever the reader is reading, the fiat currency issue comes to a head. There is no more denying that most, if not all, First World nations are utterly bankrupt and in completely insolvable debt, and have been for many decades. The world financial situation disintegrates, this is called The Great Collapse. During those twenty years Japan is gradually evacuated as Fukushima and other reactor sites become spreading permanent death zones. The Japanese people become a nation without a country, and wander the world. The Pacific Ocean becomes the world's largest, and spreading, ecotastrophy.

During the Great Collapse, there are food and water riots in major, First World cities, and martial law is nearly universal, but it is surprisingly ineffective. Cities are destroyed, armies attack their own citizens, and governments fall like dominoes. The wealthiest one percent of the planet ride out the horror in various ways: floating city-ships, Deep Underground Military Bases (DUMB's) and private fortresses.

Near the beginning of the Great Collapse, many things are tried to slow, or stop the destruction of civilization, one of these efforts is a massive genetic engineering push to spark a second Green Revolution. This creates the Last Harvest, where all wheat gradually becomes inedible by all life, even bacteria. This leads to even worse starvation, and helps spark the food riots - though they would have happened anyway as infrastructure collapsed.

Old rivalries take advantage of the situation. The middle east becomes a limited-exchange nuclear hell-hole. Radical elements within the United States, prepared for an imagined super-tyranny see the Collapse as proof of their Dominionist, religion-fueled, end-times paranoia, they detonate stolen nuclear weapons in various major cities in the belief they are 'cleansing' America. San Fransisco is one target of this, so is Los Angeles and New York. Similar events happen in Russia and it's satellite states. Africa, dominated by China by this time, turns into a slaughterhouse where isolated Chinese factory-cities are assaulted by disgruntled nationals.

China and the east see limited nuclear exchanges with both Koreas resisting invasion from the North.

As things get worse and worse the 300 'Good Families', the wealthiest and most powerful dynasties of history, come together to deal with the potential loss of the world, and thus their peasantry. From their bases and ships and the growing fortress-cities in increasingly warm Antarctica, they organize and mobilize the precursors to the Blackmesh. All masks are finally dropped, as there is no longer any pretense of 'governments' and 'corporations' - all were just puppets of the Good Families, and always have been. The Good Families reluctantly take central stage, unhidden, to rescue the planet as best they can.

Both secret and known technologies are revealed and employed. A secret one is nanotechnology - which has advanced moderately farther than most realize. A known technology is artificial intelligence which is already used for near total surveillance of the population. Humanity, in desperation, works together for the first time on a global level, all nationalism vanished. Nanotech is used to manufacture food and water for the world, and this prevents the annihilation of humanity.

Gradually the world rebuilds, under the iron fist of the Good Families - now out in the open - and their global enforcers, which become the Blackmesh after their nanoconstructed, flexible carbon fiber armor. There are not enough resources or energy to permit the luxuries of the pre-collapse world, so a global favela replaces large and small cities. The world is divided up into production zones, which the Good Families regulate, their overseers and lieutenants manage the zones in a return to feudalism on a planetary scale.

By this time Japan is a dead land, much of Russia is toxic, the Middle East is a permanent glass desert of radioactive death, and China is a balkanized mess that only gradually becomes a proper Zone. Australia is left to despair for a long time, they never completely fit in. Africa is found to have been devastated by chemical and biological agents, and is fairly empty. Worse, the alterations of the climate and rainfall have left most of the planet desert. The Amazon, by this time, has been a barren desert for decades.

Exact Location of Emergence of Equestria:
28.8558,-142.414221 Just north east of Hawaii, in the Pacific. 2:30 AM, April 22nd.

Nearing the time of the Emergence Of Equestria, the world has become relatively stable. The population has returned and expanded rapidly: with every person fed and watered, but with nothing to do, humans breed wildly in a global version of the 'bounce back effect' that occurs now, when charities feed Third World peoples. Unlike now, however, nanotech food recycling prevents the massive, even greater starvation that always follows crusades to feed the hungry. The world population reaches nineteen billion.

But what is not told to the people over the numerous entertainment and propaganda kiosks that maintain the social cohesion is the terrible fact that the planet is already doomed. It was even during the Great Collapse - the tipping point for the biosphere had already been reached - but nobody, not even the Good Families wanted to admit it. The planet is already dead, on its way to becoming a copy of Venus. The human race has three generations left to it, before the level of oxygen in the atmosphere drops to a point where life can no longer be sustained - with no forests and no jungles, with the ocean dead, there is no longer any production of oxygen sufficient for survival. The planet is in a death spiral, and there is no escape.

Literally no escape, because peak radioactives, peak rare earths, and peak energy are facts in our time, now. In this future, the situation is only worse, and there is no possible hope of any escape to space. There isn't now, in fact - we simply don't have the resources to colonize space any more in 2014. The last reasonable chance for that passed sometime in 1970, and even then would have required a united earth to accomplish. There is no place to go, and no future for humanity.

The Good Families have the plan of domes in Antarctica, and underground complexes cut into the stone there, in which to hole up with their trusted minions while the rest of humanity dies. Their last plan involves having sapient artificial intelligence iteratively design more and more advanced nanotech that might restore the world before it goes full Venus. Note that in this future, artificial intelligence is not like in the Optimalverse, it is not something that can be said to truly be 'alive'. It functions, but it works as P-zombies, devoid of true qualia.

Only artificial animals - like the Muffin the blue cat and Jake the dog in my stories have true experience and life. This is because they are partially biological, and make use of quantum tubules for part of their minds. In the TCB, true, living consciousness is a fluke of quantum reality, whether in the microtubules of neurons, or the artificial tubules of designer animals. (This idea is taken from Dr. Roger Penrose). The quantum nature of true consciousness is the reason, by the way, that Thaumatic energy in my stories (magic) kills all life. All biological life on earth uses quantum effects - photosynthesis depends on it for energy transfer, brains use it to tell direction and to sense magnetic force, even mitochondria use it in energy production. Magic eliminates the 'dice god really does use', and destroys indeterminacy. It has to: magic, to work, must know the true and compete state of matter, if you think about it. No other way to turn a pony into a cactus (as foal Twilight does to her parents) in the blink of an eye. No indeterminacy, no quantum states, no life. Yes, I feel utterly brilliant about all of this. I guess my biochemistry background finally paid off!

The nanotech solution will not work though. Tiny machines, as I have pointed out many times in my stories, generate heat. Heat that will just help the planet turn into Venus faster. The last hope of the Good Families is doomed to fail.

The last days of man will be cooking inside a cavern cut into the mountains of Antarctica, the heat rising to match the Venus-like hell above. Think 'Level 7' by Mordecai Roshwald.

Or would... except for the emergence of Equestria, nearly at the end of life on earth, to rescue and save what can be saved of human existence, and the creatures of the earth.

Without the extorted promise that brings Celestia to the rescue, humanity would boil to death within three generations. The humans of the doomed planet earth are saved by a last-moment hat-trick rescue.

Why did Celestia wait until the last possible moment to save humanity?

She needed nanotech to be developed, and the human genome to be completely deciphered. She may be deific, but trying to convert billions by sheer will, outside of her natural environment, inside of a zero-magic universe is beyond her.

Also, to be honest, she wasn't eager to let billions of alien creatures that destroyed their own world into her universe. Only reasonable, really - but a promise is a promise, and for a deific entity... even more so.

BONUS!

I can offer some more stuff, too. Here are my working notes on the state of the world in my TCB future history:

The Earth is run by the World Corporate Authority, also called the Worldgovernment or the World Corporation.

Their enforcers are the Blackmesh Corporate Security, so named for their polycarbonate webbed armor.

The 19 billion of the world is divided up into Corporate Production Zones, ruled over by the Corporate Elite. Serving the Corporate elite are the only humans who still have jobs, the 'twopers' or Two Percenters, who manage the artificially intelligent factories and production centers.

Most humans live in the worldfavela, a world-spanning slum amidst the ruins of destroyed cities, broken down arcologies, and of course the rad zones, radioactive areas where nothing can live.

There is the:

Northamerizone, comprising what once had been the US and Canada. Here is the site, in Saskatchewan for the Last Harvest, an ill-fated attempt to genegineer grain, leading to the total extinction of wheat throughout the planet.

Southamerizone, which is the totality of South America, including the Great Amazon Desert and the Peruvian Desolation.

Eastasiazone, which includes most of the eastern part of the pacific rim, including the Nippon Exclusion Zone, so radioactive nothing can ever set foot there again.

Midasiazone, what used to be China and Russia, and the baltic nations

Eurozone, which includes the whole of Europe and the Mediterranean.

Mideasternzone, the middle east

Afrizone, the whole of Africa

Southasiazone, which includes everything down to and including Australia and New Zealand. Aussies are still a bit miffed and often refer to themselves as New Oz, or the New Oz Alliance, but the corporate world government Does Not Approve.

Ponification itself is achieved through the use of Potion, or Ponification Transformation Serum, a nanotechnomagical fluid that makes use of Equestrian physics (magic) to power Earthly nanomachines.

Magic is termed Thaumatic Radiation, and it is undetectable by any normal means, yet it is deadly to all primate cells. Mage Plague is the sickness that comes of exposure to Thaumatic Radiation.

The level of Thaumatic Radiation can be determined with a Fleshstrip; a thin piece of vat-grown human skin held in a plastic support frame. Placed in proximity to Thaumatic Radiation, it can be observed, the time it takes for the living cells to die provides a scale to measure how dangerous the radiation is.

Most humans in the favelas get their information from holokiosks, which are provided by the worldgovernment propaganda and infotainment division.

Every human on Earth is provided with the Guaranteed Minimum Ration, which is three quarts of potable water and 1000 calories of nutrition derived from nanorecycled human and other waste. This is doled out from Blackmesh Ration Distribution Centers.

That 1000 calories is 200 short of the actual needs of human beings was a deliberate political concession to the more conservative (read sociopathic) parts of the worldgovernment, the lack is there to 'get the lazy useless eaters off their asses and back to work' entirely ignoring the fact that there literally are no jobs left for the vast majority of humanity.

The very first Conversion Bureau opens up in San Francisco, with 100 clinics... the second in Vancouver, with 500.

3233841 Awesome! This absolutely should be made into a stick post so newcomers can find it easily and linked to from the groups' main page!

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To be considered for approval in this group, do all stories have to treat the preceding events as cannon?

If not, how far can one deviate from it?

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There are only three rules to writing a Conversion Bureau story. They are the three things that define a true Conversion Bureau story, and they must all be followed for a story to count as a true Bureau story. Just three - but they are very easy rules to follow.

There are Bureau stories that take place in ancient history, and Bureau stories where Celestia is a giant computer. There are Bureau stories where there literally is no actual Equestria at all! No, you do not have to follow the timeline of my stories, heck, you don't even need to have ponies as physical entities, as such.... you just need to follow these three rules -

1. Conversion Bureau stories are transformation fiction. They are stories of ordinary humans offered the most extraordinary of experiences - that of becoming an entirely new species. Bureau stories examine the nature of identity and existence at a fundamental level.

2. Primary to any true Conversion Bureau story is a deep love of ponies, Equestria, Celestia and Luna, and all the most wonderful things about My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. Conversion Bureau stories expand upon the joy and innocence that My Little Pony represents, and juxtapose the often harsh and cruel real world of Earth beside that of Equestria. Through some means the two realms are brought together, and humans are offered the gift of becoming Equestrian themselves.

3. In a Conversion Bureau story, humans may react to this opportunity in any number of ways. They may embrace it, or fear it, resign themselves to it or even oppose it - but the transformation is usually inevitable, and humankind is forced to confront the issue of what it means to become the Other.

Oh, and though I really shouldn't have to state it - to be a Conversion Bureau story, somewhere in there, somehow, you need a Bureau - of some kind - usually one involved with the required transformation. It says so on the label, you know.

But... A Bureau can do almost anything, it is, after all, just an agency, a government or corporate agency. Want to make the 'Bureau' into part of a start-up company that offers transformation - physical, emotional, mental, or anything - that is fine. I once wrote a story where the 'Bureau' was a small group of genetic hackers who developed a virus in a garage!

Just three rules, all the imagination, and... stick a Bureau in there. Because that's the name, after all!

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I see, thanks for clarifying that Chatoyance.

though I do, in fact, remember reading those 3 rules and now feel ignorant for asking...

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No, it's perfectly fine. I didn't mind. Kindness is the rule, at the Bureau!

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There are also PER conversions, though. They seem usually to refer their involuntary converts to a nearby CB. (One of my characters is an involuntary, even though he was already planning to convert anyway. Which is one of the reasons that PER conversions are inefficient from a utility perspective.)

My eponymous protagonist is PER (basically a well intentioned extremist). I have a much longer timeline for my story than most, as I don't have a Barrier that is inevitably expanding. It basically divides the world as a function of how many humans and ponies there are. (Basically, my ending is 60-70 years out as most sane people voluntarily ponify.)

Dragons and griffons have also become really sick of seeing Celestia swell the numbers of her subjects by ponification and end up setting up their own CBs. Dragons, though, are a lot more selective about potential converts. I don't do much in the way of developing that concept, but the dragon ambassador does have some fairly sarcastic barbs about the low quality of pony immigrants compared to the few who get approved as dragon converts.

(After the HLF gets trounced by ponies, a lot of them, despite their rhetoric about staying human even if the skies fall, are actually recruited by dragons. Dragons have a certain admiration for a species so bloody minded as to know their strategy is doomed and stupid and even suicidal and to go ahead and do it anyway.)

Anyway, if I ever get finished writing it, I think I have the weirdest timeline for CB stories. It's 60-70 years just for the part of the story with my protagonist, but then the epilogue part of the story (which I won't go into) is probably about a millennium or so.

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The exact location where Equestria popped into existence: Coordinates Input (left map)
Latitude:N 28° 51' 20.88"
Longitude:W 142° 24' 51.1956"

From Recombinant 63. Specifically:

It wasn't floating, and it didn't move relative to the continental shelf. Not a millimeter. By the 23rd, it was thirty meters in diameter. 28.8558,-142.414221 -the precise location of the beginning of the end of the world.

She also has the actual final end occurring somewhere in South Africa. The antipode for this exact location is actually somewhere in the ocean off the coast of .za but I suppose it would have been kind of boring to have the dramatic climax occur underwater.

3251579 You might find this is a valuable tool as well.

Also, if your idea falls through, I think you'd make a fine pre/beta-reader for my own works. No expanding barrier, multiple species options for conversion, quite a long time-frame, same as yours.

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I'm glad someone else had the same idea. The dragons and griffons in my world are actually pretty pissed off that Celestia yet again stole a march on them.

In my world, there is a "Council of Three" that is basically Celestia and the King of Dragons and the King of Griffons. (I prefer the spelling with an "i" but I'm trying to stick to canon.) Celestia always wins these conflicts because the dragons are always on her side, guaranteeing her 2-1 decisions.

3252024 Eh, my version has it that dragons do not congregate to a singular special leader. Each dragon that's big/old enough to be a leader effectively takes on a nation, or a little city state, of their own. Celestia makes sure none of her ponies that are in such cities are held against their will (or much of anyone) and gryphons just don't live in draconic cities.

Gryphons have an alliance with Equestria that's been cooling for a thousand years since Luna was banished.

The groups Equestria has greater trouble dealing with diplomatically are diamond dogs and buffalo. Minotaur and Zebra are geographically far enough away to not present too much of an issue.

My "King of the Dragons" would probably be lawful neutral in the old D&D alignments. Actually, my Celestia is also probably lawful neutral. She was so horribly traumatized by the chaos of Discord that lawfulness is much more important to her than even good.

My dragon king, though, is powerful and scary enough that even the chaotic evil dragons would never dare to defy him. He's lawful neutral, but even the red dragons will obey him and when he cuts a deal with other species, they will go along with it. Not because they necessarily agree with him, but because they are afraid of him.

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Well this was certainly a treat to say the least I've been wanting to get a good look at this timeline for a long time.

Its an interesting Time line to say the least although I doubt it has any real basis in reality (for one thing I don't think we're trapped on earth far from it) for one thing you've failed to take into account resources outside our own planet resources I expect we'll have access in the time frames you prescribe. Just one moderately sized asteroid has more rare earths and other precious materials in it then have ever been mined. In fact I expect to see us colonize both the moon and Mars within my lifetime

Also that 300 family thing sounds like it came right out of a tin hat conspiracy theory (this is right up there with the they're hiding aliens from us man thing). I highly doubt that there's been a group of rich folks running the world together since the Renaissance (now rich fighting over the planet definitely, but I don't they'd ever be able to cooperate like this.) and in any case if they were so high and mighty why not stop the great collapse from occurring in the first place?

Then of course theres the last harvest which I find that you and everyone else has overlooked the most obvious of questions, why not just burn the stuff it may be inedible but I'm absolutely certain that doesn't mean its inflammable. Its likely to even occur by accident ie. random lightning strike.

Anyway those are but a few of my gripes, but I'll leave it at that for now.

In any case before I leave I wish to tell you that I don't hate your ideas Chatty hell no its a great setting and an interesting one, but at the same time I know from past experience that you believe at least some of these things to be things that will happen (or at least likely to happen) and in that respect I hope to all hell that you are wrong. Cause no offense I REALLY don't wanna live through stuff like this. I'm sorry but if this did turn out to be true I'd think I'd have to go jump off a cliff save myself the pain and suffering and all.

Anyway I'm not all that concerned since I'm a firm believer that the only thing predictable about the future is its unpredictability. If humans were truly able to predict the future we'd have avoided a lot of problems or made them come true depending on where you stood andway I give any element of your stuff about 16% chance of occuring with in the next 100 years. That's roughly the same for all future predicting including the use of Tarot Cards and Astrology.

In conclusion thanks for ounce again scaring the crap out of me Chatty I think you've scared about 5 years off my life with this. Anyway I think I'm gonna go build a padded room for myself so i don't hurt myself this evening.

Take care Chatty and stay brilliant

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Just one moderately sized asteroid has more rare earths and other precious materials in it then have ever been mined.

Um, sure. The problem is not that space lacks treasure, the problem is always that we are running out of practically obtainable energy in forms that could be used to conquer space. You can't mine what you can't afford to get to.

I highly doubt that there's been a group of rich folks running the world together since the Renaissance

Right now, four companies control the entire planet. Would you believe Forbes?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brendancoffey/2011/10/26/the-four-companies-that-control-the-147-companies-that-own-everything/

Want to see a small part of this graphed out so you can get a gut feeling of it?
http://mic.com/articles/71255/10-corporations-control-almost-everything-you-buy-this-chart-shows-how

Yes, there are many conspiracy theorists who love jerking around to this issue. They are often fairly silly.

That doesn't change the reality, however.

You see, the deal is - not a bit of this is a conspiracy. There is no conspiracy. It's just business, it's just how things work. There is nothing cool about it, nothing amazing, nothing illuminati about a bit of it. It's just the brutal truth that money conquers all.

It's boring. It's obnoxious. It cannot be stopped or beaten, and some folks, feeling lost and powerless (which they totally are) try to dress it all up and put makeup on the pig. Conspiracies are so much more flashy and interesting that just shrugging and accepting that around 300 or so families will always run everything, and that everyone is basically a serf. That stings. So... for some people, making it all sound like some big drama (that might be broken up, if only people get mad enough!) feels better.

Ain't gonna happen. The game is over. You can't have a conspiracy, if you own the world. There's nothing but yourself to conspire against, and that is just goofy.

Then of course theres the last harvest which I find that you and everyone else has overlooked the most obvious of questions, why not just burn the stuff

Burn every field, every grassland, every single massive, industrial farm, most of every continent? Even if it could be done, the amount of smoke, the amount of carbon released into the atmosphere... it would be easier just to nuke everything, because that way we all die quickly, instead of very, very slowly. Gasping and choking. In agony. Big flash, a few minutes of crawling in agony without skin or eyes, and silence. No, I didn't overlook this.

When I invented my future history, all I did was take a bunch of stuff that is happening right now, this moment, for real, and simply say "What if people just let things go on without changing anything? What would happen if it was business as usual without some big Enlightenment? Take everything to its logical conclusion!"

You don't have to live through my future history.

Change it.

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Hmmmm well Chatty first off thanks for responding I so love talking to you! I swear I almost giggled like a school girl

Except that to me this does prove that your future is very unlikely since for it to happen everything will have to remain exactly as is. The problem is we both know this is highly highly highly unlikely to occur since things love to change and a lot of times in unforeseen way (ex. Tomorrow that Super Volcano under Yellow Stone could decide to wake up). That and of course there's the whole 16% rule. Still I certainly don't doubt certain elements of it could come true (for one thing the whole earth becoming a second Venus thing is certainly possible. I just hope it doesn't).

I see that I was right about being able to simply burn the wheat which is good. In any case Chatty I didn't mean for someone to simply throw a match into it. No I was talking about using a series of controlled burns to slowly and methodically burn the wheat in a controlled manner (and yes I know this would take a long time but its like the people in your conversion future had anything better to do before Equestria showed up)

Also no need to look at those links I'm fully aware that a small number of people control a lot of the wealth (you'd have to be retarded not to know that) I only debated the 300 family thing cause the way you wrote it and the way they just magically come out of hiding makes them seem like a huge conspiracy theory. In fact this case of a small number controlling most of the wealth has probably been a thing since we first settled down into farming villages.

As far as space is concerned I'm confident we'll get there one way or another I'm confident of this. Still you are right at this point we'll need a new power source to do so. Fortunately there are options (ever heard of the Orion Project?)

Anyway Chatty I hope I haven't upset you by debating your ideas. I think your ideas are quite interesting and neat, but since your future is a bit dark I wanted to learn yet more about it and how you came up for it (ignorance is a breeding ground for fear after all and you have definitely illuminated the last of the ignorance about this which I feared and for that I am grateful). Also I see your future as the worlds biggest jigsaw puzzle that's just yelling to me find the solution to it. That and I just love a good debate and love to chat with people I find unique and interesting, and I know I've said it a million times I so love chatting with you your one of the most intelligent people I've ever met and everything you say is so interesting and thought provoking. In any case I'm sorry if I did.

On a different note I was going to ask what you would think if someone made an alternate world map of your Conversion Bureau universe I know of a few guys who do these sorts of thing and I think it might be cool if we could get one of them to do a map of this (when I'm not sure perhaps after Equestria emerges but before it makes landfall I'm not sure. Anyway what do you think?

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As far as space is concerned I'm confident we'll get there one way or another I'm confident of this.

When I was small, and watching the first moon landing, I was utterly enraptured. I was certain that when I was an adult, I would be living on a city on the moon. I am a total science fiction geek, and I looked forward to a future in space.

As I saw the space program wither and die, and as I understood the reasons humanity went to the moon at all, I found myself no longer able to rationally believe in that future among the stars. Now, seeing the last dregs of the energy resources that would be required to even attempt civilization in space going away, and seeing not one nation on this planet taking space truly seriously, I find all hope lost in this arena.

It is something that makes me very sad.

On a different note I was going to ask what you would think if someone made an alternate world map of your Conversion Bureau universe

I always feel that anything done to celebrate and expand the Bureau mythos is a joy and a delight!

Anyway Chatty I hope I haven't upset you by debating your ideas.

Good glob, no! I love debating things, and I love discussing things. The only thing I don't like is people being mean, or cruel, or telling lies, or handing out death threats. I don't like trolls trying to trick people into conflict, and I don't like harassment and abuse.

Those things have nothing to do with debate or discussion. They are just the acts of pathetic people so broken that they think such things are something to do at all. It's like dealing with spoiled, entitled children, and I am not good with children. At least rotten ones.

You are not like that. It's okay to be passionate. It's just not okay to be abusive. You are fine.

Only abuse makes me fragile.

since things love to change

Yes, they do. The fact of this is one problem I have with humanity - it is too short-sighted and fails to prepare adequately... or at all... for disasters and change. The incompetent way that many recent catastrophes in the nation I live in - America - were handled is disturbing. No... it is criminal.

What I want is for humanity to live up to its own ideals and create a functioning world where people are cared for, and where everything is not about domination and power.

I don't see that as being likely, so I tend to hope for very big changes to shake things up. Something like the Optimalverse, for example. Or even my own Pony Singularity, or a nice PNY-1 Virus. I have no illusion that my silly Bureau stories are ever going to come true. Equestria will not come to save us.

I do think that business as usual will likely lead to disaster, and relatively soon.

In some ways, I see the future as a race to see if some clever revolution, such as artificial intelligence or some new power source, or some thing that changes Man at a fundamental level can outrace human greed and short-sightedness crashing civilization to desktop.

I suspect that within our lifetimes we just may see whether humanity goes Golden Age, or Dark Ages. We live in interesting times.

Of course I am rooting for gold.

I just recognize that it's kind of a long shot.

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Well then I think I shall root for gold along with you.

And yes I suppose we do live in interesting times damn you Chinese curse.

In any case in the past I would have disagreed with you but now I fear you may in fact be right that the only way humanity is gonna survive the next century is if something big changes things. Still I won't lie I am a bit more optimistic then you are and I feel that not only will a big change happen its inevitable. Unfortunately the problem is there's a good chance that change will not be for the better. In any case I fear either way neither of us have the ability to effect the outcome so I guess we'll just have to hold on tight and hope.

Then again that might just be my own bias talking tbh for the past 5-6 years despite getting more open and social I've been withdrawing from "normal" society in favor alternate ones and I'm not gonna lie I've kinda stopped caring about said normal people and there troubles. which is one of the reasons I would gladly take the potion if it were ever to come true. A few months ago I would have considered such a thing like the conversion bureaus silly but recent events have called into question as to how far fetched it really is for me, of course I won't tell you why (at least not here its a big secret).

And yes I agree humans can be quite shortsighted and thoughtless.

Anyway I've always wondered what Sci Fi shows novels, or whatever do you like I know you've often talked about liking it so I'm kinda curious tbh.

I was never really into any myself until recently tbh. When I was a kid and into my adult life I always created my own but recently I've been getting into Dr. Who and I really love Red Dwarf.

Anyway I'm glad I'm not bothering you with my ramblings. I'm kinda glad your taking a turn for the more social I enjoy talking with you.

Also apologies for the late reply.

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Anyway I've always wondered what Sci Fi shows novels, or whatever do you like

I grew up inside books. I had no proper childhood, and what I did have was... bad. So, I lived in books. Books were my solace, my sanctuary and my real life; school and parents and sleep were all filled with the same thing: nightmares.

My favorite literary novel is Don Quixote, because it is my truth. My brain has been addled with too many romances. Inside my books I found my life defined by Ideals. Honesty. Compassion. Courage. Nobility. Intelligence.

My authors were Heinlein and Bradbury, Clarke and Henderson and Campbell, Bloch and Leiber and Norton and Zelazny and Pohl and Farmer and Russ and Bixby and Padgett and Sheckley and Gerrold and all of the golden and silver age science fiction writers. They were my school, my childhood, my life, my reality. I withdrew inside myself, away from the beatings and the blood and the screaming and the constant fear for my life, and found in the worlds of these brilliant writers the only value in existing at all.

I can't provide you with a list, it would take me weeks to compile. My home, as an adult, has no walls but shelves, endless shelves, filled with books. I live in what amounts to a library, like Twilight Sparkle, and like her, I was alone and studious. But unlike her, I yearned always for friends, and for a world of friendship, from my earliest age... only that was denied me by circumstance.

I found my friends in Eet and Podkayne and Tweel and more. From such books I learned my values, my ethics, the things I consider important. I was made in the image of the books that were my life.

And it is in the spirit of these classics upon which modern movies and television rely and steal from that my own novels and short stories derive. I can see why most of what I loved is no longer in print; most of the generation today seems as if they would not comprehend most of it, certainly they would not like it. Too much hard science. To much propriety. Too little sex and violence, and far too much expectation of civility and reason.

And also, too much real friendship, based upon respect freely given and accepted with the honorable intent to live up to it.

I have even based my very life upon such books; my family is a Heinlein polyamory, our lives are not defined by common social rituals but instead our own. Thirty years now, and to the end of our days.

But, you asked, what I like, whatever. I will try, my interests are diverse.

I like:

Science fiction and fantasy, in books and radio plays and television and movies. It must be intelligent, above all else. I am not there for special effects, but for ideas.

I write and draw, obviously, in the past I have animated and sculped and painted and crafted miniatures and stuffed animals and designed clothing and much more besides. I art. I art all over the place. I fill the air with arts.

I like comedy. Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, Ghostbusters, Look Around You, The Frantics, The Goodies, Airplane, Top Secret, The IT Crowd, Monty Python, Royal Canadian Air Farce, Stephen Wright, countless, countless others.

I love games. I am a ludologist. I don't just play games, I study them. I used to design computer games, and board games, and I have never stopped loving all games. I play Go, and Xiangqi, and Magic and Pandemic and Mao. I eat up computer and video games at a prodigious rate - I have what is likely one of the largest collections in North America. If it was for the Amiga to the Playstation 4, and it was at all good, I likely own it. But then, I worked in the industry. It is only natural.

But it wasn't just a career. It was the love of my life. To me, the potential of computer games is beyond measure. They are the future, and one day, I suspect, if we survive as a species, we truly will end up living in them.

Some fairly recent favorites? Portal (both), Left For Dead (both), Borderlands (anything), Dynasty Warriors (all), Lego games (all), Earth Defense Force (all), Team Fortress 2, The Stanley Parable, Pixeljunk games (all), Space Engineers, Little Big Planet (anything), Gears of War, Last Of Us... oh gosh... so many more.

I love animation, anime and manga. Miyazaki and Adventure Time and Pony. Gantz and Parasyte and really old stuff too.

I like miniatures games, and toys in general. My room is several toy stores.

I had no childhood, so I live an eternal one, only with adult comprehension.

I love tea. Tea is my primary drink, iced mostly, but occasionally hot. Sen Cha, Macha, Ocha kudasai desu? Camellia sinensis, my liquid virtue.

And I love to learn. I study endlessly, for my stories, for my fascinations, for my projects and inventions, for the hell of it. Learning new things is joy, by itself.

I plink on a harp, hopelessly bad, but I am not doing it to win any awards.

But above all else, I love my spouses. My family is my only real and abiding treasure, and they are my life, and my meaning, and my worth. If I play games, it is to play with them. If I study, it is to have something worthy to discuss at dinner. If I create, it is to please at least one of them as much as my self.

That, and cute animals, and pie instead of cake, and savory instead of sweet, are some of the things I like.

Oh... and Pacific Rim, The Lego Movie, and Babylon Five all rock. And Alien Nation. And Star Trek. And... oh dear. We'll be here all day.

3452809
Oh, how I love the Air Farce. And Codco? Remember Codco? And Kids In The Hall... oh! And SCTV! Oh, how could I miss SCTV? "LaRue!"

Sigh.

3452923
Oh yes! This hour was such a favorite, back when I could see it easily. Definitely.

3452920
Sad to say, we won't see the like again. Most of those were (directly or not) products of government arts grants and/or the CBC, our national radio and TV broadcaster. Tax-funded, no commercials on the radio (though TV has adopted them so it can afford to buy "big name" programming), that sort of thing. Most Canadians have a deep affection for the institution, but commercial broadcasters have the obvious problems with it. Supporters of the current government call it the "Communist Broadcasting Corporation", and are working (with considerable success) to slowly starve it to death (along with the postal service and other institutions), since just killing it outright would be political suicide. The radio, for example, now airs re-runs of the day's programming at night, and now that we're into summer, many programs are already re-runs of earlier material. That means summer nights (prime radio listening time!) are pretty lousy, programming-wise. And news of massive staff cuts means we're not going to be better off come fall.

>>Chatoyance

My authors were Heinlein and Bradbury, Clarke and Henderson and Campbell, Bloch and Leiber and Norton and Zelazny and Pohl and Farmer and Russ and Bixby and Padgett and Sheckley and Gerrold and all of the golden and silver age science fiction writers.

I share Heinlein, Bradbury, Clarke, Campbell, Bloch, Leiber, Zelazny, Pohl, Farmer and Padgett. Henry Kuttner is sadly forgotten these days, along with Padgett (Kuttner/Moore). Throw in Asimov, though. And Harlan Ellison (I know you don't care for him much and there is much not to like about him as a person). I read those annual best of Galaxy compilations cover to cover probably from the 50s to the 70s of the magazine's publication.

Though probably my favorite SF author of all time would be Phil Dick. And then you have the cyberpunks, like Gibson and Sterling and Rucker and that lot. They more or less express my attitude toward transhumanism, i.e. the singularity will probably come and it will suck.

3454866 Kuttner! Thank you! It was tough remembering all those names. There are more I can't recall at the moment. And yes, Phil Dick. Heck - my favorite movie is Blade Runner! (director's cut, with no narration, the unicorn, and Roy Batty saying "I want more life, fucker!" specifically)

The single favorite book in my collection? Adventures In Time And Space, edited by Raymond J. Healy and J. Francis McComas. I have a first edition original that I cut a custom plastic protector coverslip for.

I... kind of like books. #understatement

3454882

I've tried that and then had it still display just numbers, but let's give it another shot.
(In fact, it did just that. Let's see if a subsequent edit doesn't break it.)

3454985

I am pretty sure I never read that collection itself, but looking at the table of contents from Wikipedia, I'm not surprised that I've read a lot of those stories.

3452802
First off I apologize for taking so long to respond to this. Unfortunately I haven't really had a chance to stop and respond that and tbh I was surprised at the shear amount of stuff on here.

Anyway I've been trying to think of where to start with all this but its kinda hard to decide since as I said there so much here.

I guess I'll start with games since that's the medium I'm most familiar with. So you actually worked in the industry? What games did you make? Also when you mentioned your game library how big are we talking? I myself have a considerable game library (although the most games I have for any system is the Super Nintendo I just love that era of gaming.) The Super Nintendo was the first console I ever owned and a lot of my all time favorite games are for that system.

It might be important to note that most of my story/rp ideas and influences have there bases in video games and were originally from games of the Super Nintendo era (in particular Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final fantasy 6) There of course have been other things the Miyazaki film My neighbor Totoro had a strong effect as well. These were (some) my stories growing up and the ones I still draw inspiration from to this day.

In any case after reading this I know this may sound crazy but I actually envy you a bit. You've done so much with your life its insane. I can only hope to experience half of what you have encountered. Still it saddens me that you had such a horrible childhood (truth be told thinking back mine wasn't exactly spectacular either my step dad saw to that). In anycase i love how you've never really grown up I hope I can continue to do the same (grownups are boring )

3485158

So you actually worked in the industry? What games did you make? Also when you mentioned your game library how big are we talking?

I started at Activision in 1983 or so. I sold my first game design (which never got made... most games never get made. It's a ten-to-one ratio), and walked out the door with a check for 10K and stars in my eyes. After that, they put me to work on Gary Kitchen's Gamemaker, Aliens, Transformers, I did the original Shanghai Tiles, worked on Crazy Rabbit, Carmine Sandiego, Robin Hood, Legacy Of The Ancients... oh, hell... I've worked for Electronic Arts and Epyx and Broderbund and Sculptured Software and... a lot of others. I only ever got to make one game that was entirely my own - a puzzle game called 'Boppin'. The software industry ate me up and spit me out. It was very vicious.

I own around 11,000 games. Roughly. If it was made for any machine (except the Neo Geo or... a few obscure machines), and it was any good, I own it. C64, Intellivision, Atari, Amiga, All the Sega machines (loved the Saturn), all the Microsoft machines (Except the Xbox One. Fuck the Xbone. I love my 360 but... well, maybe someday. We'll see.), all the Sony machines, most of the Nintendo machines (I didn't choose to get into the Wii-U). Oh, and most of the portables.

You kind of have to play games to make games for a living, and that often ends up with owning games. Lots of games. A lot of my collection was given to me by companies, for work, for study, for reviews, for just being part of the industry. I worked in games for 14 seriously fucked up years, and in the end had a heart attack over it all. Literal broken heart.

I have had a totally messed-up career. But... it was non-boring. And... I love games, so... it was not all bad. I met a lot of famous names, and was even occasionally semi-famous myself. Yay me.

But, in the end, I am just another washed up, tossed aside wreck from the games industry. Like a lot of people. Nothing special about that.

My love of games has never wavered. I still play them today, and I still think they are potentially the greatest medium ever created.

As for growing up? No chance. I never was allowed a childhood, so... I am taking a big childhood for the rest of my life. Because, why the hell not?

3233841 I'm not going to go off an say 'that can't happen' since this is all fiction and there for not bound to reality but rather bound to imagination.

But I will make this point; The radiation levels in the Fukushima exclusion zone are about equal with those inside the ISS. In other words, the exclusion zone only exists because the general public flips their shit whenever anything is seen as radioactive, regardless of the actual threat level. It's actually completely liveable, not ideal but liveable.

More over the 'irradiated water' from the plant would be easy to sort out is it was simply taken out into the middle of the Pacific and dumped. This would allow the massive volume of water in the Pacific to dilute the comparatively tiny amount of irradiated water to safe levels.

Heck, if they weren't walking on eggshells because of eco-justice warriors the plant could have been cleaned up within a matter of months and still not have caused any real harm in the clean up.

In all, the way you set up the premise of your stories is iffy but the results are still enjoyable.

3486430
A number of scientists I follow would strongly disagree with your assessment of the long-term impact of Fukushima. But this single incident is not why the future Japan of my stories is an Exclusion Zone like Chernobyl.

Indeed, if current political trends continue, the Japanese government will likely just shove people back into Fukushima and let them pay with their lives. They likely won't make the region an Exclusion Zone as they should.

It is my prediction that instead, the Japanese, desperate for cheap energy, will increase their nuclear energy dependence despite Fukushima, and more disasters will follow, more and more until they finally cannot ignore the problem any longer.

And that is when Japan will become one big Exclusion Zone, and the Japanese people will wander the earth.

Everything in my future history is just what is happening right now, turned up to eleven with the knob ripped off. My future is what could happen if nothing changes and everything continues with business as usual.

Will my future happen?

It depends on how much you believe the world can radically change, working against short-term profit and gain, towards truly long-term benefits that only pay off decades, or centuries later.

My opinion, based on all of history to date, is that, no, humans can't change to act like that.

But, your mileage - and belief in sudden Enlightenment - may vary, and that's okay.

I hope I am wrong. I want to be wrong. Please, let me be wrong about my future history.

3486184
Wow!

11,000 games Ai ai ai! I think you win the who has the most games out of everyone I know award Chatty not to mention the most consoles. My own collection probably only numbers in the hundreds

Anyway its sad that your gaming career didn't take off I can only imagine what a more complex game like an RPG made by you would be like (Conversion Bureau the video game ) Truly I think it was a missed opportunity. In anycase I don't blame you for passing on the current gen so far I'm actually thinking of passing this console generation heck if some people are right this might be the second to last one anyway.

Anyway onto another subject you mentioned I've never really drank tea or coffee or anything. Still it might be interesting to try someday any suggestions.

I wish I could discuss books with you but I'm afriad I've never been much of a fiction reader I read a lot of non fiction books but fiction books just never took off with me probably due to my home town dismal collection when I was young. Honestly did they really think a young boy is going to be in anyway interested in stuff like little house on the prairie

3487117
I see.

Well if you want my opinion chatty I think the main reason people debate your future is due to two reason 1. They are unable to comprehend it or they are unwilling to (I originally fell in the latter category). Even when we first had our first exchange a couple years ago I already acknowledged the possibility of such a future but I was too terrified of it (still am) to accept it I in a sense refused to accept it as a possibility. Which is why I attacked it. As they say some dance to remember I dance to forget.

Anyway on a different note do you remember a week or so ago when you asked if you could help me with my writing?

Well I have thought of something I could use help with. Truth be told the main problem I have with writing is an overabundance of ideas I'll start writing and then I'll change my mind on what I want and wind up changing it mid story or just abandoning it.

So I was wondering if I could use you as a second opinion on my Conversion Bureau ideas. I figure you might be able to help me pick out which ones are best and give me an idea if it would work in your universe cause I'm not gonna lie they all take place in yours (how could I not use yours yours is the most interesting and compelling)

In anycase I would just love to share them with you

3487117
I tend towards a favorable outlook by default; eventually that old farts in control will die and we'll have an opertunity to enact change.

Add the fact, I think it was last year, two groups of scientists discovered how to get net gain fusion reactions working then the demand for nuclear power should decline once that is fully operational.

As for my thoughts on the Fukushima clean up, they are based on the opinion of a scientist that works on nuclear reactors and with radiation all the time. I figure if he spends so much time around them then his thoughts on that should hold some weight.

3487311

So I was wondering if I could use you as a second opinion on my Conversion Bureau ideas.

Of course, if you like.

In anycase I don't blame you for passing on the current gen so far

Actually, I did get a PS4. I was all set to go with the Xbox One, at first. But numerous issues made me reconsider that. I have greatly loved my 360, I've had a lot of fun with it. My PS3, too. But between those two, I always liked the interface for the 360 more.

Until they went Windows 8 on it. And tried to force Kinect as standard. And other issues.

Long story short, I went with the PS4, and have not bothered to also get an Xbone. I honestly feel the Xbone, this generation, is an inferior machine hobbled by some really ghastly media-oriented decisions. And this is sad, because there are a few exclusives on the Xbone that interest me already, and there will probably be more. I always used to get both machines, Sony and Microsoft. This is the first year I have looked at one of the two and gone "No. I am not satisfied. They... they messed up, in my opinion."

I have been very, very satisfied with the PS4. It's early, there isn't many games for it that I like, but what games are out... are astonishing. Lego Marvel, Lego Movie, Dynasty Warriors, Skylanders Swap Force - all have exceeded my expectations. The extra graphical power of the PS4, compared to the Xbone, is noticeable by me, at least. Blew my socks off. And the sheer power to manipulate particles... wow. Just wow.

When things I really crave come out - like Little Big Planet 3 and several others - I will probably be even more glad of my choice. But... all that good stuff isn't until October, minimum.

Now, maybe, down the line, I might break down and snag an Xbone. I'm not saying it won't happen, especially if they fix a few things even further, and maybe lower the price even further. But for now... I guess I just didn't want to spend the dosh on both machines like I usually do.

I kind of think Microsoft is going through a bad patch lately, and that's sad.

On the other hoof, Sony is doing an amazing job lately, at least compared to the last generation console, and I am seriously impressed. One of my old inspirations, Mark Cerny (Marble Madness?) has really turned the PS4 around. They put him in charge of it, and, well, it's made a difference. Almost met him. I regret missing that opportunity.

But not as much as missing meeting Daniel Bunten Berry. My Sandi got to meet her, right before she died. She was apparently just as intelligent, fun, and filled with wonder and brilliance as I had always imagined... but that was the trip to CES or whatever that I turned down. What an idiot I was. And now she is gone. She was my favorite game designer ever.

Sigh.

3487429
"The optimist believes that he lives in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears that this is so." Depressive Realism is a thing, BTW.

As for net gain fusion, that's a neat technological breakthrough, but unless it becomes economically competitive with fission, it won't start displacing fission unless people are willing to pay more to avoid dealing with fission's leavings. I mean, we're still burning coal for a reason: it sucks, but it's cheap and easy.

While I'm in this mindset, 3487117 , did Celestia have a Plan B in case humanity didn't manage to develop nanotech? If so, I hope it was something better than "let them in just like with everything else, give them souls, and wait until they make us cull them when they inevitably try to take over."

3489006 It would hinge on the fuel source used. If it's Deuterium then it would be laughable to think it won't displace every other energy source.

If it requires H3 then it will need us to basically mine Jupiter and Saturn for the gas.

So basically we have one option that is laughably cheap and another presently impossible.

...and us with no idea which is the one that was used in the experiments...

3489015
Fuel is not the only consideration, here. Even if enriched uranium were free, fission power would be hideously expensive. There's the initial construction, the maintenance and replacement cycles, the permit and decommissioning costs, etc.

We also know that the energy return on energy invested for fusion currently sucks. That's what "discovered how to get net gain" means. So out of whatever energy this hypothetical fusion reactor puts out, most of it is going to be pumped right back in to keep the reaction going. So if your shiny new fusion reactor is only putting out as much power to the grid as the coal generating plant up-state while costing much more to build and operate, your cost per kWh is going to suck.

3489174 I'm pretty sure water is cheap enough to almost count as free.

Even if it cost more short term it would be worth it long term, and everyone would be able to see it.

3489252

I'm pretty sure water is cheap enough to almost count as free.

And when you can build a working fusion reactor out of nothing but water, I'll give you all my money.

Even if it cost more short term it would be worth it long term, and everyone would be able to see it.

And now we've come full-circle:

It depends on how much you believe the world can radically change, working against short-term profit and gain, towards truly long-term benefits that only pay off decades, or centuries later.

My opinion, based on all of history to date, is that, no, humans can't change to act like that.

I'm with Chat on this one.

3489006 3487429
If I may throw in my own two cents on all of this. While I believe in both optimistic and pessimistic scenarios are possible (including Chatty's). I firmly believe that due to the nature of averages and from my take on human history we are probably in the short term (the next few centuries) are going to overall follow a scenario that is somewhere in between Utopia and Destopia. Of course there will be bad and perhaps even terrible events that will occur but overall I think we're more then likely going to fall in the middle. Still I don't doubt that a lot of what Chatty's scenario shows is not only possible but very likely, but by that same strain I also believe that a lot of it is just as likely not going to occur

3487444
Thanks Chatty I appreciate it . Anyway I need to collect my thoughts on all the different ideas I've came up with for a conversion bureau story so it will be a few days before I share them with you although truth be told even now I'm actually thinking a lot of them are just variations of a single story I've been trying to come up with (with me simply coming up with different variations of it). Still I could use your opinion on that.

On a different note
I see your bit of a graphics buff when it comes to video games at least. I personally don't really care too much about graphics (partially do to my poor eyesight serious I can't tell any difference beyond 720p)

In anycase I don't blame you for not getting an Xbone. Right now I'm pretty leery of anything they make due to all that DRM crap they tried to push onto that system (not to mention the Kinect. Seriously Microsoft retire the Kinect no one wants it but you your only going to keep losing money over it)

Also that's pretty sad what happened to that Danielle lady she died way to young . I'd like to say I had heard of her or Mr. Cerny but truth be told I really don't know of too many game devs despite being a gamer. Then again I'm this way with a lot of famous people in general (I just don't really care all that much.)

Anyway I guess we could talk about some of our favorite games if you like. One RPG in particular that I love is Persona 4 which is easily my second favorite one of all time. You ever heard of it?

3490151

Law of averages being what it is, it depends on what the actual distribution of likely outcomes for self-aware species. As with many things, it is often a reasonable assumption that outcomes come in something like a standard distribution and that most outcomes are around average, i.e. 68-95-99.7, that is, it's 68% likely we're within one standard deviation from the mean, 95% likely two, and 99.7% three.

The problem is, suppose the "average" outcome really is that intelligent species usually just self-destruct an eyeblink or so after developing nuclear capability, either by nuclear war or by some other possibly non-nuclear accident? In that case, it would actually be incredibly unlikely humanity does survive.

Looking at the world, it is sometimes difficult to view the end of the human race as anything other than a favor to the world and even the universe itself, and if we're typical of what intelligent life is, that is probably just as true for the vast majority of species out there.

ah, lets buck (gently) this thread into (very near) future?

Why did Celestia wait until the last possible moment to save humanity?

She needed nanotech to be developed, and the human genome to be completely deciphered. She may be deific, but trying to convert billions by sheer will, outside of her natural environment, inside of a zero-magic universe is beyond her.

I think this bit a bit ... hot as it was stated. Especially for me, because it sort of sounds like Celestia not cared about any other life on Earth, (yet she based herself and her ponies, and her sister on very this type of life) BUT! if we postulate Celestia in this scenario was only able to visit Earth at specific interval, may be with less effort as worlds move close to their collision? Well, total collapse probably may take her (and nearly everyone behind/around her) as really bad kind of surprize!

Like, you visit Earth ...million years ago, recognize 'life as horse is good, so why not live like this, with good company for long time'

plenty of internal evolution (might be faster or slower than Earth's time) happened, ponies developed their more collective understanding of how they live, how society can be constructed to be stable, etc, etc.

Now Celestia, revisit Earth in 12xx AD. Events described in "800 years promise" happened. We have some snapshot about human civilization (part of it, actually, but important for this timeline part, key part, even).

Next, Celestia revisit Earth in 15xx and basically "Renaissance Pony" story started new, driving additional developments, in Celestia and in the world of equestria.

Next? 1750? 1850? 1950? 2050? One might rely on Celestia (who at this time was only one who can travel between worlds?) actually trying to learn about rapidly changing humanity and make some prediction, and even alter more and more dangerous course of global but divided technocivilization.

Yet, she only can do that much, and late times suddent acceleration (sort of negative/pessimistic take on Singlarity concept) actually changes things from ' hey, we still have plenty of time until day X in fairly known, progressing at least technologically world' to 'ooops, everything changed 'overnight' plenty of resources, including, eh, human's hope and 'spirit' was lost in troubled, openly war-plagued times, resources failed harder than previous prognosis ..'. Bad kind of surprize! Especially if you wanted to change whole live planet and got mostly ashes from it way too soon.

Because in Equestria strong emotions tend to correlate with how yor magic work ...well, ultrasad state of Celestia probably resulted in underdeveloped (second) barrier, one what was able to convert live beings more directly. To be honest, I really prefer to see Celestia first as Pony, and only much after this - as Powerful Pony. Very demand for 'good ruler' I think is misleading - Celestia never wanted to be ruler, never wanted to play those bad hirerachical God tales - because she never was part of our human culture on this specific aspect. So, she (and Luna, and who knows how many others?) were in this aspect just as much Pony as other ponies - not superpowered AND above-it beings.

But this doesn't mean they were all-informed about hierarchical misfiring in some disbalanced systems - be they individuals or societies.. Remember , it all dynamic - so they had time to (re)discover some of those socio-informatical laws, and learn them, and apply them (via and with many other ponies).

I also think I want to say 'eh' over very fact how TV show failed to live up to its own important element ..like, Elements of Harmony were supposed to be 'ordinary' ponies, eh? Not so 'enabled' due to their proximity to World Ruler, but due to their personalities and friendship? Yet, in some sense exactly this happened, partially? Our endless hierarchism fond its way, as always... but then in other worlds ponies can be different, and their organization can be different - they still may fast-organize themselves into stellar-level superpowers _at demand_ even if they lived sort of 'ordinary' life before. because hidden memories and neural/emphatic/memory/processing powers from world around them (developed over thousands of years as means to know/interconnect life, and protect it ... what if Tree of Harmony was actually work of Earthponies? :) many generations of them ...well, this is a bit of contradiction with description of Tree as otherworld'y artefact - or not? Artefact can be (metaphorically) seed - and ponies might grow their World-sized tree out of it ...). Gods, but on-demand, not always-on.

Still, this little problem with mostly-killed erath will need not just simple power, but ..understanding of situation. As some worldbuilding touch someone may say 'ponies at some point tried to stop their 'planet space' from collision with Earth - but it was demostrated that even if all ponies together, including Luna and Celsetia (and even Discord, with his shattered personality) will workt heir best - collision will happen anyway'. So, may be making 3-4 billions of new unicorns was also 'not even theoretically enough to make things stop' - assuming ponies realized their numbers and skill in this scenario will be much greater than in case with natives alone. But even this scenario was calculated to be ..unworkable? So, may be their calculation were also wrong, but then only way to know is to try - convert some more humans, and see how much they can do together at Equestria side. Huh, not bad spin, IMO!

May be whole reason Good Families started to play relatively good was influence Celestia (and whole Equestria behind her!) had on this version of Earth? Yet it was not enough...

So, yes, I want to de-throne Celestia, but mostly because she probably never wanted to be on throne anyway, nor there was any need for any superuler in all their history, or at lest in more advanced eras. Only reason she ever tried this trick with Princess and stuff was probably attempt at good immersion understanding of human's hierarchical psychology - but it never was more than pony (superpony) game!

..and afterthought about afterlife! Because if such thing was theoretically and then practically implemented in Equestria first for ponies, and then for another beings who might like it (and who might not, in one way or another?) - this means very interesting and unusual solution to sapient prey beings ..because..if yourbody killed and eaten by griffon, say ... yet you basically just knocked out to some low-res version of Equestria for some time, not absolutely and completely killed ...you might heavy dislike this 'forced low life' period, or moment of death (being based on Earth's beings, who strongly opposed death for ...semi-obvious reason) - yet eventually you might return, live your another life, and even reluctantly agree to be eaten/chased by some of those beings who need this kind of behavior to keep them sane! But this might not come early, historically speaking, but gradually become reality as ponies progress from more pony-centered view to more inclusive views..Afterlife for everyone, not just pony - and such talk and work on making this reality basically centuries before Earth collided with Equestria ... something BIG to implement, yet because ponies at this time will be more free from simplest and pressing needs ..why not?

I have no idea what dragons may think about this - may be for them it will be already redundant/not truely needed ...

But hey, this even makes _some_ sense from position where Equestria is 'sort of' running inside computing matter of their own universe. After someone bring in idea of afterlife somepony will realize you can't populate and populate and populate world by endless reproduction and endless life - so, as temporary solution this pony (or many ponies) might suggest to divide life into segments, 'fast full life' and 'slow, toned down afterlife'. This way they will save some 'computational' cycles, until ways to expand whole universe will be found. Part-solution, but all engineering like this. Unlike human engineers ponies will actually remember their stated goals and work towards them, even if slowly and over many generations. So, Celestia and Luna will be at least very much valued for their...lifespan and long-term insights into now society moves.. no, really for some reason I feel much better trying to imagine pony solutions to ponyverse problems - at least there they have both motivation and means to solve them ..unlike here, where attempt at altering course of whole civilization seems ..hopelessly task. Too much inertia ...

Also, I probably must add possibility of 'temporal Celestia-level being out of ordinary pony' doesn't mean all 100 000 of them will be able to do such trick at one moment in time. May be whole available number of such beings will be limited, initially, by some factors not yet discovered by ponies in time. So, just relocation of mass of energy/awareness/informational processing. But, well, not tied to two (or three) particular 'foundation beings' (Luna and Celestia, and Discord, depend on the mood...) . This makes killing Celestia/capturing her less powerful scenario, yet I don't think ponies will stop at human-type models of society, especially if some event in their history will motivate them to find solution to one or even two heads being unreplaceable. I don't think Celestia herself will like in any way to put 'her' ponies in danger due to her special nature, even if initially she and Luna will be only beings who can do cosmic (relative to local Cosmos) stuff ...so, another Big Project idea for ponykind ..not replacing Celestia and Luna, but making their power decentralized. In this way 'Code Majeste' can be read differently - not very possibility of another superpower angered Celestia - but exactly place where it happened - on Earth! I mean, in Equestria (as Chatoyance imagined it) such being had all protection of local environment - yet on earth ..yeah, BIG chance to expand like supernova, exactly because environment was very ..vacuum, compared to their native semi-artificial Cosmos. At least I like it this way. No fear of 'rivaling' superpower, even if mixed with real concerns - but desire to share/decentralize power due to civilization-level safety concerns ..this is more pony, and Celestia is self-made pony , after all (even if gigantic).