When reading a POV story do you perfer to be told who's point of view you have at the start or leave that for the story to tell you.

AKA:
(Twilight's POV)

I awake in the library with a satisfied sigh, happy about a new day and all I can learn from my books and friends.

or

I awake in the library with a satisfied sigh, happy about a new day and all I can learn from my books and friends.

"Hey, Twilight!" my number one assistant calls out.

and what if it switches POV in the story?

4295197
I prefer the one that is correct, and not shitty writing.

You should also avoid POV switches any more frequently than per scene. Indeed, switching POV is itself a valid reason to start a new scene.

If you absolutely must get the perspective of multiple characters in a small amount of words, you're better off using third omniscient.

I'd never explicitly tell; it takes away from the immersion. That'd be like someone putting on a puppet show and pausing every few minutes to say "Okay, guys, now this guy, you'll like him, 'cause..." No way.

Even for POV switches, I'd rather it depend upon the voice and the tone. If you've ever read Robert Jordan's most famous series, the Wheel of Time, you'll know what I mean. (If you haven't, consult your local library! It's better than Tolkein.) There's a difference between an author and a narrator, and if you don't mean for there to be a narrator, the author shouldn't have his own lines.

4295208
I am starting a new scene with each POV switch however I don't know how to identity the new perspective though.

We ask questions to learn, shit like this

I prefer the one that is correct, and not shitty writing.

just causes people to stop asking questions. They stop learning and quit trying to improve because of that.

A little civility can go a long way.

Basically what 4295208 said. One simply isn't proper writing. If you ask me, personally, POV switches should be, at most, twice a chapter (chapters being from 3-8K words). Otherwise it's just easier on everyone if you use third person.

4295219
No offence, but if that answer causes people to stop asking question then their skin is thinner than paper. He was perfectly civil in his response and explained it just fine. Using that is actually incorrect, it's literally shitty (shitty=bad) writing.

4295209

I'd never explicitly tell; it takes away from the immersion.

That's what i was thinking, but I wasn't quite sure, thanks.

When you tell the story from a first person perspective do you identify what's thought as opposed to what's the character narrates.

for example
‘That voice, I know that voice’, I try to think more of it but the pain shooting through my body causes me nothing but agony. Every breath I take hurts, almost to the point that I question if it is worth breathing at all. ‘I should be dead’, I know that much. The accursed one that stole my mother from me blasted me through the chest when I had my guard down. Yet somehow, I still breathe, somepony must have healed me while I was out. My own healing power seems to have failed me. I don’t know why.

Or would it be

That voice, I know that voice; however, before I can look at the speaker i feel excruciating pain, the pain shooting through my body causes me nothing but agony. Every breath I take hurts, almost to the point that I question if it is worth breathing at all. I should be dead, I know that much. The accursed one that stole my mother from me blasted me through the chest when I had my guard down. Yet somehow, I still breathe, somepony must have healed me while I was out. My own healing power seems to have failed me. I don’t know why.

I've never written a story like this before so I'm asking what's right and not.

4295230

Lets see a better way to word it.

Option A is incorrect it's an example of (shitty/bad) writing. When using POV go with option B.

this is civil and doesn't make you come off as a condescending ass.

I prefer the one that is correct (which would be?), and not shitty writing.

This makes you come off as a condescending ass because you are inherently criticizing the questioner for not knowing which one is wrong. If I knew one was wrong I wouldn't have asked the question.

See the difference? People ask questions to learn, being as ass to someone who asks first is the equivalent of making fun of someone for not knowing.

At one point in time you didn't know either. I hope when you asked, you weren't criticized for not knowing.

4295219

just causes people to stop asking questions. They stop learning and quit trying to improve because of that.

If I was convinced you were teachable, I'd seek to guide you. You demonstrated over a lengthy amount of time that you're not interested in learning.

Here. Study this.

4295277

We've talked like four times over a year.

You left comments on my first story that said you thought it was ehh

you didn't like my second story

Then you hated my third.

I took what you said to heart, made huge changes to the third, (bad guy, overall plot, etc...) Went through and edited the hell out of the first and second story.

Then you read my seventh story... (I was like dafuq? He does know this is a series right?)

Then you attacked someone's opinion for supporting my story and defended it by saying they can't attack your opinion 'cause you're entitled to it. (pot meet kettle)

Teaching is about respect, if the teacher doesn't respect the student the student won't respect the teacher. Why would I have respect for you?

If I was convinced you were teachable, I'd seek to guide you.

Then why did you reply to my question? If it wasn't to teach me it was just to troll me.

4295197

When reading a POV story do you perfer to be told who's point of view you have at the start or leave that for the story to tell you.

A decent writer shouldn't have to tell us who the POV character is. Look at standard novel conventions. Published authors do no typically do this. What they usually do is make sure that whenever the scene shifts, the scene is set and the name of the character is mentioned within the first paragraph. That's how it's done. Anything else feels childish, and immediately discourages me from reading.

4295208

You should also avoid POV switches any more frequently than per scene. Indeed, switching POV is itself a valid reason to start a new scene.

I'm going to disagree slightly. I agree that POV shifts should be used sparingly, but I don't usually have a problem with a fic that changes mid-chapter, and in fact, think it's more appropriate for certain chapters dealing with particular themes or situations.

:D

4295363
Chapter != scene.

4295395

Well, crap. I need to get my eyes checked.

Yeah, I cant think of any occasion where mid-scene is anywhere close to appropriate.

4295303
Oh, oops. I didn't tag you with my last message. My bad.

Anyway. I have a group of friends that I hang out with often. One of our little circle is this really polite Canadian dude. We all like to make him read the worst shitfics we can find. He'll read them, probably because of some sort of Canadian genetic sense of politeness or something. He also gets kicks out of reading them out loud to us, so we suffer with him. We all have a laugh, amongst ourselves, about how bad some of these stories are though. Not just poor grammar, but just plain poorly thought out and executed ideas, ridiculously bad characters and charactrization, and so on.

We've been trying to force him to read TiM lately. We seem to have broken him.

Food for thought.

4295432

What? That you bring hatred to a fandom about friendship? While contributing next to nothing yourself? It's easy to criticize others when you have next to nothing to risk. You've been on this site for almost two years and I'm willing to bet you've caused more people to quit writing than you realize.

You should feel very proud.

Honestly, you not liking a story is more than enough reason for me to read it.

4295456
Get busy. There are a lot of things I don't like.

Those three groups should get you started while I look for more!

4295478

The sad thing is, if you spent half the time you do criticizing stories on helping new authors learn and grow, This site would be a lot better off for it.

I know you know your shit, I know you can help people, instead I constantly see you putting people down, insultingly for the most part. You choose to be an ass, you chose to insult people's stories instead of helping them, and you take pride in it.

Few people have a strong grasp of storytelling, grammar, and punctuation. There's an art to it, just like with playing an instrument you only get better by practicing, by being allowed to make mistakes.

Anyone who picks up drum set for the first time, sucks at it. You get better by being encouraged to do better. By being shown what you're doing wrong and being given the opportunity to correct it.

When you offer constructive feedback, it helps the writer improve.

Deconstructive feedback only serves to stroke your own ego, how big did you want it to be before you're happy?

4295456
Yep, hey, hi, me again. I feel like I should weigh in here.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAhAhaHAHAHA.

Oh right, my point...

You honestly just accused Cryosite, Cryosite of contributing nothing to the fandom? I admit to having been ignorant of your previous history with him.... until now. I went through your stories and read all his reviews of them, and though I have not read the stories, nothing in his reviews come off as even remotely hostile. I also didn't find the incident you cited where he attacked someone for their opinion, but I could have easily missed it so feel free to correct me.

Not only is Cryosite one of the best reviewers I have ever gotten a review from, but he's also remarkably fair; I've yet to see him do a review without trying to find the positive in the story. As much as I myself have had no more than a passing word with Cryosite, I feel fairly confident in saying he's a half-decent guy.

Beyond that, he's actually written stories of his own, the best of which has an approval rating of 88.1% (your highest approval rating being a smooth 90% -- not all that far off).

I have yet to see him bring any kind of hatred anywhere. Reading bad fics and laughing at them amongst friends is honestly one of the more enjoyable things you can do with bad fics. It doesn't hurt anyone either; it's in the privacy of your own friends. To say he's caused people to leave the site is just ridiculous.

Cryosite should be proud of his reviews; trust me, they aren't easy things to write, and he writes looooooooooooong ones.

Look, I got nothing against you, and I have no personal reason to defend Cryosite, I just felt like adding my two cents to the pot because it's 10 PM and lord knows I have nothing interesting going on in my life.

4295501

Here you go.

I never said I have a problem with her reviews.

next to nothing

I was referring to what she's created for the fandom. Her contribution. In two years she's critiqued hundreds of stores (I'm sure) and created three of her own.

Three....

Comments like:

(it's) bad and you should feel bad

I prefer the one that is correct, and not shitty writing.

These type of comments are known as deconstructive. I'm sure those who had a strong grasp of storytelling and grammar are really helped by her comments. People like me that never wrote anything longer than a four page term paper before coming here are not.

4295517

next to nothing

I was referring to what she's created for the fandom. Her contribution. In two years she's critiqued hundreds of stores (I'm sure) and created three of her own.
Three....

The sad thing is, if you spent half the time you do criticizing stories on helping new authors learn and grow, This site would be a lot better off for it.

I never said I have a problem with her reviews.

helping new authors learn and grow

4295549

You're right....

I backed myself into a logical corner on that one.

i concede defeat.

4295517

People like me that never wrote anything longer than a four page term paper before coming here are not.

Let me tell you about a young author who joined this site a few years ago. His screen name was Chobita Eclipse, and he hadn't really written anything before. He was only 15, still in high school. He wrote a story, and released it. Got about 300 views, most it ever had was 5 likes and never passed 3 favorites. This young author, while disappointing in the performance, decided he wasn't going to give up and kept writing. Then, after about 5 chapters, is got a single comment. "This is good; I can't wait for more!".

He wrote faster. Then, next chapter, he got another, similar comment, and he wrote faster still.

Eventually, he gave up on the story, as he decided he no longer had an interest in it for many reasons. That author went silent for a while, and eventually came back with a new story, this time entitled Don't Give Up, his first ever Twidash. He read a couple of the shipping stories, and fell in love with them, and wanted to do something similar. Thing is, he wasn't very good, and one day he got a rather nastily-worded review. It hurt him, sure, but you know what he did? He picked that review apart, pulled the important information out of it, and put it towards his own writing. His next story go popular, passing a thousand views and over 150 likes by time it was finished. That story also got a review, and the author did the same thing; he pulled out the information, and used it to improve himself. His next story passed 2K views and 200 likes by time it was done.

The cycle repeated, until Chobita Eclipse got on the featured board.

My point is, if you don't have the strength to do what Chobita did, then in my honest opinion you shouldn't be writing at all. Maybe it's just me, but I take writing very seriously and if you don't have dedication to the craft and a honest desire to write, then you have no business doing so. Chobita used the reviews to strengthen his own writing. As a writer you should be begging to have people review your stories.

Cryosite does an amazing service for those willing to take his reviews to heart. If he (she? You said she in your comment so I'm wondering if you know something I don't) is to be believed, you didn't take it to heart, and personally I have a hard time thinking Cryosite would lie so blatantly, especially when you agreed with many of the points they made in said reviews. Cryosite has also already pointed out your own contradictions, so I'll leave them alone.

4295630 Cryosite is of the wench variety, yes.

4295630

I'd like to point out the white flag above. When someone concedes, I think that should be allowed to do so without further argument. It's done.

4295660
I'd like to point out that I started typing that before said flag was posted, and as such had no knowledge of it by time I was finished it and published it.

4295890

It's happened to me on more than one occasion.

4295899
Which is why I normally don't bother typing out such long comments, especially in a discussion that involves more than two people and is still going. Never know what you miss in the time it takes to type the damn things.

4295905

I'm also accustomed to that, as well. The price of verbose rambling.

4295549
4295580

It would be fine if you two could stop bickering at least for ONE damn time and try to sort it out right from the beginning.

4295197

And I thought we were clear about the POV in LuS?

4295914

I'm also accustomed to that, as well. The price of verbose rambling.

... Aren't you sort of doing that now...?

4295630

came back with a new story, this time entitled Don't Give Up, his first ever Twidash.

I would like to make a request for said story... If it's still on the site... I can't seem to find it...

4298210

... Aren't you sort of doing that now...?

You have noooo idea . . .

Get me started on something, and my posts will start looking more like novels. Not necessarily a good thing.

4295197 I'll give my 2 cents since all you asked for was an answer to the question.

Whatever story you decide to write, whatever it may be about, one of the things a reader should always be able to tell from reading it is what the point of view is. I mean nothing against you, but if you think you need to put what POV the story is told in, chances are you might want to go back and do some serious editing in the story to fix this. I feel like telling your reader right off the bat what POV you're going to do the story in comes off as somewhat lazy and I don't recommend doing it.

As for changing POVs, it depends on the story. A one shot will flow best when in one POV the entire time, as a sudden shift in POV in the middle of it will more often than not cause most readers to become lost or confused. (I know, I do have one story where I did this and eventually will fix that. It was a long time ago, gimme some slack ) With a multiple chapter story, it's fine if you want to change in between chapters, that's fine, but I wouldn't do it too often.

But for whatever you may be writing, I would stay in 3rd perspective unless you feel very comfortable with the voice of the character. For example, at this stage I feel very comfortable writing Twilight's voice, so I can be okay with writing 1st person with her as the narrator.

4298625

Honestly that's what I suspected; however, I've seen it both ways and wasn't sure which one to use though. (Never wrote a POV story before. How do we learn? By asking questions.)

That's why I asked.

As far as switching POVs I am looking to tell the story from three different perspectives. with about 4-5 chapters total
Character A which is lost in her own mind
Character B which is on a hunt to find A
Character C which I use to try and tell the results of what B leaves behind.

Thanks for answering the question though.

4298737 No problem.

Although, I'm a bit confused when you say you never wrote a POV story before. Doesn't every story have a POV?

In terms of trying to learn, with writing the best way to learn is by simply writing. First time I wrote for this fandom, I had no idea where to start, so I just started writing something which came to mind, and eventually the more I wrote, the more I improved. I suggest sitting down, jotting down some ideas, and writing them in whatever POV you want. Don't worry about if things don't make sense, don't worry about if people might like it, focus exclusively on making the point of view work to the best of your ability.

Remember the old saying, "practice makes perfect."

4298780

Remember the old saying, "practice makes perfect."

i fully agree lol.

When i say POV, i mean from the eyes of the main character. The narration more or less being their thoughts as opposed to an omnipresent narrative.

Forgive me if I'm not using the correct terms, I don't know a lot about writing. I've been on this site for 14 months and I've been writing for 14 months. I still make a lot of errors but I'm learning.

4298800

I've been writing since 2008, and there is still plenty of stuff I am trying to change and improve.

Writing is a skill you're always improving on, and always learning on.

4299141

I treat it the same as playing an instrument or learning to paint, draw, sculpt, model, sow, etc...

You only get better by doing. Sometimes you succeed, often you fail. But you take what you learn and apply it to the next story and the story after that and the story after that.

I'd like to think my stories are getting better over time. That at the very least I'm not making the same mistakes twice.