Knowing the importance of the riddle to the Plot, this thread is intended to allow people to discuss it.

I rather this thread be the version of steel.
Because steel is metal as hell.

Hilarious, but this is meant to discuss that prophecy Discord gave luna about nightmare moon.

“Two out of three, contest near goal
Advantage to design and sol
And now the third she wants unwhole
The choice for her’s to end the game
Or else fortunes will end the same.
“The first game started by hubris humbled
The results caused a realm that stumbled
All sides lost, bright vic’try crumbled
That game is done, the next set come
Entropy wants this last undone
“This was ordained ere ‘fore your birth
Two tulpars have proven their worth
Anarchy’s key is of the earth
And if it lets success be sworn
Reason shall have a wing and horn.”

I'm actually surprised they haven't been solved. They will be become more prominent in Book II, which is coming.

2991712 when you say book II, do you mean the next arc of the story, or an entirely new story?

Personally, I guess the problem is that people are more focused on who is nightmare moon's host.

AAG is current planned at three Books, meaning at some point, Book I (All-American Girl) will end. After that, a new story, continuing the whole thing, will commence.

Unless we want a million words plus on one story....

2991762 Good lord...

2991762
2992558
I guess that depends on how long you want the first book to be. Are we in the first half or second half of the first book?

2993214
We're almost done with the first book.

Anyway, the Riddles. Honestly, I thought they'd be solved by now.

2993595

Again. Too busy trying to guess who Nightmare Moon's host is.

2990418
2991712
Unless I am so much mistaken, the "games" are:
1) 'the War of the Elements': everybody lost
2) the current sickness: Twilight currently has the key to its solution and, due to certain clues in the last two or three chapters, and due to "Reason shall have a wing and horn", I believe will result in Twilight's ascension.
3) This one I believe alludes to DJ being paramount in defeating NMM.

Unless we want a million words plus on one story....

I don't see a problem. It would be nice if you denote a separation (like calling "Ark II chapter #"), but closing one book and opening another wouldn't make enough sense if there isn't a real separation between them.
Besides, for you as an author, it should be easier to just continue inside the same book, rather than to have to once again perform the necessary descriptions needed for the second book to be readable as a stand-alone.

2994389
Regarding "Reason shall have a wing and a horn," I have wondered if DJ will be alicoronated. Not that DJ is the avatar of reason -- nuh uh. But she is the reason that the earths made contact, and apparently the reason for some of Nightmare Moon's actions.

3146409
At that, I would sooner believe that to apply to Shining Dawn or to Faust herself: Faust got the idea of unconditional love into Shining Dawn's head, and then Shining Dawn began going pepsis queen and defeated Broken Armour, a trained assassin, by sheer power alone. DJ's involvement could be about a scene that I have been wanting to see for a while now: the Element of Generosity rejecting Rarity and going for DJ.

3146478

DJ's involvement could be about a scene that I have been wanting to see for a while now: the Element of Generosity rejecting Rarity and going for DJ.

Poor Rarity... Poor DJ, too. "What is this? Hell, no! Well, I am not going to be stuck in this god-forsaken place just because some damned necklace took a shining to me!"

3146478

Except there's a problem with that idea:

DJ has no cutie mark. The Element of Generosity, like the others, appears in the main component of the wearer's cutie mark and so is a purple diamond for Rarity. And DJ certainly does not want to be carrying a thing based on her birth mother's cutie mark.

3147372

The Element of Generosity, like the others, appears in the main component of the wearer's cutie mark and so is a purple diamond for Rarity.

Which is the cause and which is the effect?
What was first: the egg or the chicken?
The Elements, before becoming five necklaces and a crown, were just dull rocks, and before that they were just gemstones with generic cuts. On the show, they have changed enough that they no longer fit their notches on the Tree of Harmony.
When the Element jumps at DJ, I would expect it to reshape itself to fit her. For all we know, it could reshape itself into something completely un-pony, such as a gauntlet or a helm.

And DJ certainly does not want to be carrying a thing based on her birth mother's cutie mark.

I wouldn't think that the Element would ask her, or that the process would be nice. On the same leaf, it won't let her step out of Equestria unless DJ has accepted her responsibilities as a Bearer.
In fact, I would see it as an interesting overarching theme for AAG if Ark I was about DJ being a visitor to Equestria, Ark II was about her being a prisoner in Equestria, and Ark III was about her being a warrior of Equestria.

3147207
I would want to imagine what would be the anger of an ancient artefact against the one who shamefully misuses it. Excalibur with a red-hot hilt, anyone?

3147886
MAybe... Though I don't think Rarity has abused the physical manifestation of her Element, or really abused generosity that badly. Though I may feel more sympathy for her than most readers; in my mind, her hostility towards DJ is because accepting DJ as Daisy Jo would mean really giving up Sandalwood for dead. That's a lot to ask any parent, and the roller-coaster of she's-dead / she's-lost / she's-found / she's gone can't be making it any easier.

3147959
It is my opinion that Rarity has never been anything but a miser in her relationship with DJ.
1) As far as I see, the general situation would be that Rarity has never been generous enough to give a millimetre to empathy, and has thus never allowed for the possibility that Sandalwood could have had a happy life without her. It is also that Rarity expects DJ to give everything in their relationship, with Rarity only being willing to give back if DJ Sandalwood is willing to give it all and forsake her human life just to be Rarity's daughter.
2) The trial was never about her daughter's happiness, but about establishing her own rights over her.
3) At the conclusion of the trial, Rarity continued to plan about marrying off Sandalwood, without affording herself a moment to wonder if DJ could have different plans. And never mind that she apparently couldn't afford to think that DJ had never been educated in pony manners, so social faux-passes would abound.
4) Hey: lets say that Rarity was 'emotionally compromised' during and after the trial. What about the last twenty years, when she continues to cover her ears if anybody even insinuates that she needs to give a millimetre to DJ's opinion?

3148321
Almost all fair interpretations of events, though I'd take issue with the "she apparently couldn't afford to think that DJ had never been educated in pony manners" bit. In my experience, someone doesn't put effort into having something occur to them. It happens or it doesn't, and Rarity's always had a bit of a dramatic streak, so might fly off the handle at a first impression.

For the rest, though they are fair interpretations, I think all the events behind them could equally be just a mother desperate to have her little filly back, or at least someone who her little filly could have been, if Rarity had been able to raise her.

3148853
It could be called "giving the element of doubt" or "rationalizing". Parents are usually the ones who give the greatest 'element of doubt' to their own children, constructing crazy scenarios that keep their kids innocent of any misdeed and seeing angels in creatures that fairly are nothing but lost souls.
Now Rarity knows that Sandalwood was raised by 'wolves'. How comes that she never considered the possibility that she doesn't know about not scratching her rump in public?

I think all the events behind them could equally be just a mother desperate to have her little filly back, or at least someone who her little filly could have been, if Rarity had been able to raise her.

More in my favour:
1) If Rarity had been really generous, she would have stopped the project as soon as a good pattern was established and she had known it to have killed many good soldiers already, rather than let it run for fifteen years.
2) Is Rarity so extremely full of herself that she never envisioned the possibility of her foal having found happiness without her?
3) How do you expect to have raised a child without having raised it? Rarity was just barking!

3147372
3147207
2993595

3149613

Now Rarity knows that Sandalwood was raised by 'wolves'. How comes that she never considered the possibility that she doesn't know about not scratching her rump in public?

Like I said, it just never occurred to her, and she jumped to a conclusion. Then drama took over.

If Rarity had been really generous, she would have stopped the project as soon as a good pattern was established and she had known it to have killed many good soldiers already, rather than let it run for fifteen years.

They might've been planning to explore other continua anyway. I think the government (Celestia and Twilight in particular) would've considered it prudent to know what was out there.

Is Rarity so extremely full of herself that she never envisioned the possibility of her foal having found happiness without her?

Drop an infant anyplace on any random place on our Earth, at a random time in our history. Assuming (against the odds) that the child does not drown within minutes, I'd still lay pretty high odds against that kid seeing another birthday. Also, again, even if she was happy, she wasn't Sandalwood.

3149730

Like I said, it just never occurred to her, and she jumped to a conclusion. Then drama took over.

Yeah; she's a bitch.

They might've been planning to explore other continua anyway. I think the government (Celestia and Twilight in particular) would've considered it prudent to know what was out there.

Before the foal's disappearance, the only thing they knew about other universes was that Twilight knew enough about the hypothesis to be able to 'see' its applicability on the lightning crater. If that lightning hadn't struck, experimentation might have been decades or centuries down the line.

Drop an infant anyplace on any random place on our Earth, at a random time in our history. Assuming (against the odds) that the child does not drown within minutes, I'd still lay pretty high odds against that kid seeing another birthday.

I wouldn't just say infant: drop any human under the age of 5 in a random spot and they'll be as good as dead unless somebody takes them in. A baby? Just declare them dead already!

Also, again, even if she was happy, she wasn't Sandalwood.

Sandalwood only existed for two weeks then.

3149795

Before the foal's disappearance, the only thing they knew about other universes was that Twilight knew enough about the hypothesis to be able to 'see' its applicability on the lightning crater. If that lightning hadn't struck, experimentation might have been decades or centuries down the line.

But by the time the soldiers had died, experimentation was well underway.

Sandalwood only existed for two weeks then.

A very brief time, anyway. But she lived a lot longer in Rarity's dearest hopes.

Hey, guys, let's keep this thread about the riddle, please. The stuff about DJ being Sandalwood or not is throwing this thread off topic, so if you want to keep discussing it I would advise making a new thread.

3150166
Point taken! I don't think either one of us was making any headway, or going to do so, in any case. I'll stop now.

3150166
So, dude: do you still think that DJ has no chance of being the next Bearer of Generosity?

3150283
Sorry for the bitching.

3150850

If you want to keep that line of discussion going, please make a new thread for it like I asked. This thread is for discussing the riddle in general, not for the tangent of DJ possibly being the next Bearer of Generosity unless you can provide evidence suggesting that's what the riddle is implying. Not trying to be rude, but without that idea being grounded in a way to relate it to the riddle, it is a topic better suited to be its own thread separate from this one.

3151020
I do not believe that we are going off topic here:

“This was ordained ere ‘fore your birth
Two tulpars have proven their worth
Anarchy’s key is of the earth
And if it lets success be sworn
Reason shall have a wing and horn.”

Anarchy could be about Rarity being a deplorable Bearer, and the key then being about the Element finding a new Bearer.
The fourth line refers to free will interfering with a swearing, thus meaning the reluctance of DJ toward being imposed the responsibilities of a Bearer. This line can mean that DJ will be imposed the Element, but until she accepts it she won't be sworn as a Bearer.
The last two lines, together, mean that if DJ is sworn as a Bearer, Twilight will ascend.

3151150

Fair enough.

Though what about the possibility that DJ turns into an Alicorn?

3151162
I see that possibility as terribly unlikely (just for starters, she's a blank flank at the ripe old age of 35, and she's almost completely disconnected from Equestria), and if that happens without DJ having gone through some extreme character growth beforehand (starting by her mastering Earth Pony Magic), it will come completely out from left field.
I admit there's a distinct possibility for her to become an uberpony, considering that she could still do minor, rudimentary Earth pony magic in magic-dead Human Earth and her magic-starved body is now sucking magic like a sponge. However, I say that if she actually becomes an uberpony, she will become a wrecking ball, comparable to sitting a toddler on a forklift. It would still take her years before she can truly control, then master her magic.

Now, what do you say about DJ becoming the Bearer of Generosity? While she's not precisely a saint (she demands at least some reciprocity before she opens her heart with a possible enemy), she is indeed an exemplar of generosity in her general way of relating with the world around her.

Well, some of what it means was revealed at the AMA...what do you guys think now?