Edit: This thread's gone so far off-the-rails, it's been locked. If you want to talk about episodes that are inappropriate for the target audience, we can talk at my blog.

Fair warning: I expect commenters on my blog to be civil, and to not drag things off-the-rails like what happened here!

I wrote an opinion-piece: “My Little Pony Episodes that are Inappropriate for the Target Audience”. This seems like a good place to publish it.

S5E6: Appleoosa's Most Wanted:
The CMCs hang around a man who their babysitter tells them is dangerous (and the man's a known criminal to boot). The episode shows them as being right to disobey their babysitter.

They Crusaders got lucky, the man turned out to be harmless. It could have ended very badly for them! It could end very badly for a real kid who tries the same stunt!

Equestria Girls 4: Legend of Everfree:
A camp counselor blatantly hits on one of the (teenage) kids at his camp, and tries to start a romantic relationship with her. That was shown as normal and acceptable.

S8E10: The Break Up Breakdown:
The CMCs mistakenly think Sweetie Belle has a secret admirer. A secret romantic admirer. And Scootaloo says this line: “I don't get it. We asked every stallion in Ponyville [if he was Sweetie's secret admirer]”.

Notice, she didn't say “colt”. She said “stallion”! Scootaloo mentions the possibility of a grown man having a romantic interest in a pre-pubesent girl, as if that's something normal and acceptable. That's the last thing we want to tell a bunch of little girls!

Also, that episode did show lesbian couples (in the scene where Big Mac looks at romantic couples longingly, because he misses his girlfriend). I think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in a kids' show. But whether you agree or disagree with me there: I hope we can all agree that pedophilia shouldn't be shown as normal and acceptable.

S8E20: The Washouts:
There's team of stunt-fliers, who preform very dangerous death-defying stunts. They recruit a child onto the team, without asking her mother's (well, big sister's) permission. And not as a mascot, or something safe like that: They're going to have the kid preform the same dangerous stunts as the adult members of the team.

Now, you'd think Rainbow Dash would rescue her kid, and drag the tike home kicking and screaming if she has too. She almost does. But instead, Dash decides to let Scootaloo remain on the team, telling her “You're your own foal”.

That's wrong! A child does not have the right to do something dangerous, because “he's his own child”. He's his parents' child, and it's his parents' job to protect him (Dash wasn't doing that). For the show to tell kids that their parents should let them to dangerous things, because “you're your own child”: That's dangerous!

To be fair to the episode: It did end with the leader of the team being revealed as a nasty person. That's good, but the episode still gives kids a dangerous message.

In conclusion:

The really sad part is: How many people have to give the green light, before an episode (or Equestria Girls movie) makes it to our TVs? Probably a lot of people. And yet somehow, not one of them stepped back and said “Wait a minute. We can't air that!”.

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A camp counselor blatantly hits on one of the (teenage) kids at his camp, and tries to start a romantic relationship with her. That was shown as normal and acceptable.

The fans and show staff try to justify that by saying Timber is the same age as Sci Twi, which is BS.

6690615

Also, that episode did show lesbian couples (in the scene where Big Mac looks at romantic couples longingly, because he misses his girlfriend). I think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in a kid's show. But weather you agree or disagree with me there: I hope we can all agree that pedophilia shouldn't be shown as normal and acceptable.

IMO, at cost of sounding like homophobe, LGBT stuff should just be left out of kid's show neither in any other media.
UNLESS, of course, has an actual point of having an LGBT character like, being relevant to the plot, not because of Political Correctness.
When your story is focused on either space wars among aliens, battles between gods in a fantasy setting or any major conflict, a character sexuality is as important as what's his favorite color.
I can get when people use racism to further the plot (Even though most of times, those villains are just flat cardboards which only major trait is to be racist).

6690615
This was also a kids cartoon.

6690774
The 90s were a very different time and WB were a lot more subtle with their adult humor. I’m not sure stuff like that would make it past censors these days after the Metoo movement and Harvey Weinstein effect.

6690774

I haven't watched the whole video. But that seems like immature over-the-top comedy. Not "Hey kids. Pedophilia's a-okay! And so is hanging around people your parents say are dangerous!".

Is it questionable: Yeah. Is it up to parents to be parents, and decide if they want to let their kids see it: Yeah. But is it the same as those MLP episodes: I doubt it.

6690615
You have a lot of good points in there, but I do take issue with this statement:

That's wrong! A child does not have the right to do something dangerous, because “he's his own child”. He's his parents' child, and it's his parents' job to protect him (Dash wasn't doing that). For the show to tell kids that their parents should let them to dangerous things, because “you're your own child”: That's dangerous!

This attitude is a serious problem. Children need to learn to think for themselves to develop into responsible adults, and part of that process is letting them make mistakes so they can learn from them. The kind of over-protectiveness you are talking about here has caused serious problems and needs to be seen as the bad parenting it is.

6690703
Agreed. While all of that can be a way to add flavor, it's rarely relevant and usually terribly handled thanks to the current political insanity around that stuff so it's generally better to simply avoid the subject.

6691323

Actuality, think I agree with you. The way 21st century Americans wrap their kids in bubble-wrap, it's not right. But there is a middle-ground between bubble-wrap, and the opposite extreme. And Dash letting Scoots join the Washouts: That is the opposite extreme of American bubble-wrap!

It comes down to moderation and sanity. Let your kids be kids. Let them scrape their knees, that's often the best way to learn. But there are times when you should tell them no. And if need be, if they're really in danger and they won't listen: To drag them home kicking and screaming.

I think Twilight making a friendship cult probably belongs here somewhere.

6691489

I was a bit tempted to add more episodes, but I didn't want to muddy the waters. I just wanted to show the stuff that was pretty blatant.

Edit: But I don't think the friendship school is really inappropriate for the target audience. I just think it's kind of ridiculous.

6691340
Yeah, definitely. It's just that the way you worded it came across as the bubble wrap angle, in part because it's such a common problem right now. I probably lean more towards taking lumps and learning from mistakes than most since I personally have a high tolerance for both pain and risk, but I definitely agree that there are things like wandering into the street that can't be learned the hard way.

That said, I'm not entirely sure how much this applies in that episode since I'm not sure what the canon relationship looks like at this point (it's been years since I watched an episode), but then again they have a long history of royally fucking up at this point so I'm not going to try to defend them.

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By making characters like this exist only as part of 'afterschool specials', you're emphasizing how abnormal they are. If they're just regular people, then portray them as such like normal characters.

It's not LGBT people's fault their identity is a political issue, and it's comments like this that keep it being that way.

6692519
Is not my fault that people claim to work for their equality, yet write them so poorly.

6692537

It doesn't need to be your fault, but it still makes;

LGBT stuff should just be left out of kid's show neither in any other media.

This a huge problem, because you're not saying romantic relationships should be left out. By doing that, you're showing only one specific relationship as normal, and that's extremely fucked up.

Edit: "I think if it's set in the suburbs, black people should only be in a show if they're relevant to the plot-"
"I think if it's a show for men, women should only be in the show if they have a relationship to a male character in some way-"

6692548
I think you missed this part :

UNLESS, of course, has an actual point of having an LGBT character like, being relevant to the plot, not because of Political Correctness.

If anyone wants to make a movie, a comic or anything else with LGBT, they are free to do it.
What I'm against is adding PC characters just for the sake of yelling "Hey, look at me, I've written down an LGBT character! Pay attention to me!".
Making someone gay just for the sake of having some gay character is wrong, just as it wrong to take a character already existing and warp him, be both his sexuality or raice, because is too much of a problem to create something original.

6692587
I didn't. I just think;

Making someone gay just for the sake of having some gay character is wrong

This is wrong and bad.

6692595
A point, a reason if you prefer.
Having LGBT character just for having a LGBT is just pointless.

6692596

Making someone gay just for the sake of having some gay character is wrong

This is wrong and bad.

So making someone gay just for the sake of having a gay character is right?

6692802
If there's no reason not to, yeah, pretty much. It helps show that gay people just passively exist without making a big deal of it. I also endorse, if it isn't important what gender a character is in original fiction, flipping a coin.

6692898
So every film, comic book, cartoon, book etc should have someone either saying that they are gay or doing gay stuff?
Because why not?

6692915
About 8% of the population identifies openly as LGBT. So it makes sense for about one in every ten characters, at least. Most pieces of media have more than ten characters. By that count, Overwatch should have at least another 2 LGBT characters on its roster, as an example.

6692898

I still think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in kids' shows. But if you're going to do it, that is the way to do it: To just show them as people, and not make a huge deal out of it.

6692955
So just because there is an 8% of people that identifies with gays, we should add more gays?
Is that kind of mentality that makes people refuse to watch PC stuff.
They watch or play to take a break from reality, not to be forced to watch two man or woman getting in each others private.
Writers should focus on write a good story with characters and plot and not focus on how to insert a gay character.

6693478
What would you say is the appropriate amount of gay characters to have?

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6693630

The appropriateness of LGBT stuff in kids' shows isn't really my main point. Like I said:

“I think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in a kids' show. But whether you agree or disagree with me there: I hope we can all agree that pedophilia shouldn't be shown as normal and acceptable”.

So can we agree on that? Can we agree that the writers (or whoever) should not have had Scootaloo mention the possibility of a grown man having a romantic interest in Sweetie Belle, as if that were something normal and acceptable?

6693650
I agree, but I think that one's more easily explained by the writers flubbing non-human terminology than actual ill intent. I didn't particularly want to debate that though, because that's way too death of the author, and instead focused on what was picked up there; That there shouldn't be LGBT representation in children's media, because that implies that it's inappropriate for kids.

When, again, there are tons of gay kids. They should know that's fine and normal.

6693655
I might agree with you that the writers just flubbed the wording, if it were just that one line in that one episode. But with the rest of the stuff on my list, especially the "Equestria Girls 4" bit: I'm past giving them the benefit of the doubt. They're either incompetent when it comes to child safety, or they're outright creeps!

As for your second point: There aren't a ton of gay children. Children are not homosexual (or heterosexual), because they're not sexual. Sexuality comes with puberty.

6693681
Again, I'm not debating you on the pedophilia thing. That's not what I care to talk about here.

Let me rephrase: There will be kids in that audience who will grow up to be gay teenagers, whose perception of what society deems is normal or not is already shaped at a younger age. Representation is still important. Why do you think the existence of LGBT characters is inappropriate to children?

6693630
Can't tell. For me having or not a gay character is not important. Fleshing a character and trying to leave not as much plot-holes in a story holds the first place.

6693946
Right. That's a really nice dodge there, because for other people having LGBT representation is important, and folks like Solarfellow here are trying to argue for them not being in the media at all.

6693960
Ok, I'll tell you how I would handle gay character: having their sexuality not so shoehorned into the story (AKA, like they did in Dragon Trainer 2 or Star Trek 3 (The new movie)) and focus of how to make them likeable.

6693960

[F]olks like Solarfellow here are trying to argue for them not being in the media at all.

Actuality, I said "I think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in a kids' show". I didn't say anything about the media in general.

Sigh, I feel like I should stay out of this, but there is one piece of misrepresentation I have to address.

6692548

This a huge problem, because you're not saying romantic relationships should be left out.

To be blunt, I do believe romance should be left out in all cases unless it serves a legitimate purpose because I've seen a lot of work dragged down by a tacked on romance, sometimes to the point that I am actively rooting for the love interest to die just to get rid of the problem. I simply didn't feel the need to mention that in my first post because it wasn't the subject at hand and tends to be more prevalent in material aimed at older audiences because market research says sex sells to that demographic. I've seen plenty of complaints about exactly this with the EQG movies, so you are absolutely making an assumption about what we believe purely so you can get offended at us.

The forced injection of politics is an entirely separate issue, and one that can more readily infect a show aimed at kids, especially given the extreme political views of the modern entertainment industry. It's well known that forcing opinions into entertainment never ends well, especially when they are extreme political/religious views like the bigotry that has taken over media the last few years. Under those circumstances, it absolutely makes sense to consider any indication of that agenda a very bad sign because it probably indicates they are being unprofessional and trying to shove their views down your throat.

That said, while I haven't seen the episode in question, the description makes it sound like it might just have been a background detail which was not acknowledged in any way by the episode which would be an appropriate way to include it.

6695316
That's a romantic plotline.

I more mean the existence of parents and married couples, like Mr and Mrs Cake. Or Shining Armor and Cadance.

You can't really avoid that problem unless you go full Smurfs on it, where babies come from storks.

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I don't think “alternative sexualities” should be promoted to children. I think it's “normal” male-famale romances that should be promoted. Now once they're adults (or at least teenagers): If they decide they want to go that way, that's a different matter. But they shouldn't be encouraged, from the time they're a child, to go that way.

And for the record: This isn't just about homosexuality. I don't think that (for example) polygamy belongs in kids' shows. People who are into alternative sexualities (be it male/male, one-male/multiple-females, or whatever) do face some challenges. The solution is not to push that stuff on children!

Also for the record: I reject both the ideas that “all gays are simply born gay”, and “all gays simply chose to be gay”. Those are both gross oversimplifications of human sexuality!

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The forced injection of politics is an entirely separate issue, and one that can more readily infect a show aimed at kids, especially given the extreme political views of the modern entertainment industry.

Actuality, I thought the first Friendship School episode (S8E01/2: School Daze) was too political, and made way too big a deal out of race! But left it off my list, I didn't want to muddy the waters.

6695428

Yeah. And I guess I'm also a "polyphobe", because I don't think polygamy should be promoted to children.

Look: If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But name-calling isn't helping your case.

That’s enough discussion about social sciences here. Let’s get back on topic. This isn’t the group or site for these discussions.

6695443

This talk about LGBT stuff is getting heated, you might be right calling it off Humanity. And LGBT stuff in kids' shows really isn't my main point. Like I said:

Also, that episode did show lesbian couples [...]. I think LGBT stuff doesn't belong in a kids' show. But whether you agree or disagree with me there: I hope we can all agree that pedophilia shouldn't be shown as normal and acceptable.

So could I get some thoughts and feelings on the main crux of my original post, rather then just that one side-point?

6695448
Considering it was just one episode that was a big nod to the fandom from start to finish, I can’t see it as a big deal.

6695463

I'm confused. Are we talking about the same episode here? I'm talking about "S8E10: The Break Up Breakdown". The one where the Big Mac thinks his girlfriend is breaking up with him, and the CMCs think Sweetie Belle has a secret romantic admirer.

It sounds like you're talking about S5E9: "Slice of Life": The episode with the background Ponies (like Derpy and the Doctor).

6695477
I am. I don’t recall a lesbian couple in the ones you mentioned unless it was a background gag.

6695541

I'm still confused. You said:

"It was just one episode that was a big nod to the fandom from start to finish"

Were you talking about S5E9: "Slice of Life"? Or were you talking about S8E10: "The Break Up Breakdown"?

6695647
That’s enough.