I have a question for y'all. For the EQG7 natural skin tones or the canon pastel colors? I am writing a crossover/alt-u between EQG and Sword Art Online. The girls will form a guild, called the Wondercolts, with blue and yellow as their colors. Pastel tones can cause issue though. Sunset can't wear yellow/gold armor, because it will wash out due to her amber skin. If I go natural, that, and any other clothing/armor considerations, would not be a problem. Hair colors would stay canon.

If I use natural tones, I don't want them all to be the same and neither do I think they should be. The poll uses the Fitzpatrick Scale (which I give and explain) that was developed for and used by dermatologists to assess risk of sun exposure and other dermatological matters. Skin tones are beautiful and unique and so are the characters. I would want their natural skin tone to reflect their character and beauty, just like their canon pastel tones do.

Click on the wing banner to go to the poll. It is short and easy, and done over google forms. It doesn't require a name or email. It stays anonymous. It is short, one require question, and then optional for the girls skin tones using the Fitzpatrick scale. I would really appreciate your input. You can share it too, because I want feedback from as many people as possible, even if they don't read what I write.

Disclaimer: I hate that we live in a world where I have to even state this, but none of this is an attempt to place race and/or discrimination on the characters or anyone else. Grad school has me in a Race and Ethnic Relations class, so I know how slippery of a slop I am standing on. All I am interested in is logical application of skin tones on the EQG7 if I were to use natural tones.

7476946
First off, I thank you for taking into account the racial and ethnic considerations with this concept. This is a difficult concept at the best times. Frankly if I were to draw my own art I'd be willing to make them all as dark in skin tone as possible, just to thumb in the eye of those who think you have to have a "reason" to be a particular ethnicity or religion or what have you. (Cause I hate to break it to those of you who think that: No you don't.)

Secondly, I will admit I'm not entirely sure that it's necessary to worry about this question too much, to tell you the truth. I see what you're saying regarding skin colors washing out when it comes to armor, but, they can design other armors. They could just as easily go with the Rainbooms instead of the Wondercolts, especially if there are no others than the Humane Seven. So my vote is for that.

Third, if you do want to invoke natural skin tones, I would make sure to ask yourself a few questions about what those skin tones say about the family background of the characters, the ethnic groups they are a part of, and what that says about the political landscape of their world. Because while some people think you can just tune out of politics, most of us who aren't part of the Cis Het White Anglo Saxon Protestant group don't get to hide from politics. We have to deal with it on a daily basis in our lives no matter what. Some of us can hide a little better than others, but at the end of the day it's still there.

So, all that said, I do want to thank you again for coming at this subject with a distinct note of maturity, as well as a refusal to bow to the fallacious concept that white is default and therefore they're all white unless they have a "reason" to not be white.

7476946
Since you're writing a story, and so--I assume--not showing images of these characters anyway, I don't see this choice making a big difference. I know that, if I read a section describing a character's outfit or whatever, I'm almost always perfectly happy to just accept that if the prose says it looks good on the character, then it does. So I don't think that that part of the question is a big issue, and to be honest I don't know that the specifics of the character's skin color are something you need to be very explicit about anyway. I really couldn't tell you, most of the time I'm writing or reading EQG characters, whether I'm picturing them with silly pastel colors or not.

But if it makes things easier for you, give them natural skin colors. Pretty much nobody adheres strictly to their canon look anyway, since if we did that they'd all have the same weird noodly body type and that's essentially never the way they're written.

So, basically, unless you're going to make their skin color consequential in the story, I almost certainly wouldn't care either way, so whatever you feel like doing is probably alright.

I personally would go with pastel. I'm so used to seeing the Equestria Girls as pastel-colored that natural skin tones looks weird on them.

7476963
I do plan to commission a cover. It is a large story and Sunset will be on the cover with someone else. For this fanfic, I do see skin tones, the same for its predecessor. It stopped me for armor colors in the one before because many of my readers see their canon skin tones.

I have about 5 original projects I am working on and each has a different skin tone in my head. No idea why, even with a science fiction set in the stars, and knowing backgrounds which include skin tones, I still see every character as the same skin tone. The stories vary in the skin tones, but I always picture one tone per story unless I think really hard about it. I have no idea why and have been working on figuring out why.

7476961
Thank you. I do take it seriously. I am getting my Masters in Sociology. Calm discussion and talk is the goal, with the best answer drawn. I don't have an answer, so it is why I put this poll out, to see where others are at.

To your third point. Since it is Sword Art Online for the crossover, the girls are actually doing an exchange program and in Japan. As one other individual put it about them going to Japan and using their pastel skin tones, "Hey Rainbow Dash, why are you blue?"

While I don't set Canterlot in a country, fictional or real, I think it is pretty clear by the design of the school, city, and other factors that is a "western nation." It would be much more at home in the U.S., Canada, England, or half of Europe without looking out of place. The main target audience for MLP is US/Canada, and the setting reflects it because the goal is for the kids to connect with the characters and want the toys because of that connection, so the parent buy them and Hasbro makes money. That isn't a bad thing, it just is. They have cleverly avoided race politics in the show and movies by using pastels and taking away any ability to have race, although they do make ethnic callouts. The point is, I would expect to see a lot of different ethnicities in Canterlot. "White" ethnicities fit into Fitzpatrick's Scale as Type 1, Type 2, Type 3, and some even Type 4. That is why I use it rather than any racial categories.

Wondercolts or Rainbooms, the name isn't the issue, and neither is the armor. Armor types will vary, the problem is the colors. Switching armor styles won't solve some of the coloring issues with canon skin tones. The guild colors are set, navy and gold, because that looks better than the pastel blue and yellow school colors of CHS. It won't just be them either. At least one other Japanese national student, and I plan on adding in more to their guild. No matter what guild name or armor style I choose, if I go canon skin tones, with Sunset leading them, I can't put her in gold and blue to stand out as their leader while still wearing their guild colors.

That said, I am not sure if natural skin tones are the right way to go with the story. Cover art will be commissioned, so that does matter. If I go canon, I won't need to specify skin tone in the story because the bulk of my readers are familiar with MLP/EQG and know the character's skin tones. If I go natural tones, it will need to be stated once or twice, just to ensure that the readers are aware they are natural tones. I have readers on AO3 who are not familiar with EQG.

7476946

I prefer natural skin tones, but most of my (unreleased) crossovers also take place on Earth. I use the kotobukiya skin tones, or if I find good natural fan art, I use them. They still have their OG hair.

But, it doesn't really matter. I'd just say, if you're going to use pastel, make sure everyone is pastel, and visa/versa.

I thought i posted this before, maybe I didn't?

edit: just saw you made this a thread in a diff group. Lol

7477041
Thank you for the input. And yes, I got a notification from a group and realized, I had a few I could post this question to. My blog is great, and it had the previous story listed, so those following the story or me would get that, but I wanted more input from as many people as possible.

Shifting Kirito and Asuna's skin tones to pastel sounds wrong, and difficult. I might have to address the fact that everyone was pastel. But I get your point and thank you for it. It is a very good one.

7477061
Issa all good.

I'd just say pick something and be consistent. But you can't really have normal tones and pastel tones together, if they are from the same countries/world, if that makes sense.

Don't over think diversity either, just pick something and run with it. Like I said, there are some great natural tone EqG fan arts with a diverse cast. And, like I said, the kotobikuya is a good baseline to play with.

7476946
If everyone besides the EG crew have natural skin tones then make them also have it for consistancy. Then again, if they're going to have their names and everyone else will have normal people names there's still going to be weird mixups...

7477409
Since both universes are so similar, and could exist side by side, the only direct differences is skin tone and many of the names. I have no idea which way to lean, hence why I am asking. Thanks for your input.

7477480
That brings up a good point I hadn't thought of. What kind of crossover is it?
If there's displacement going on or if the EG portal leads to the SAO world then there's no need to change the skintones or names.
Sword Art Online is when they're stuck in the MMORPG, right? Maybe it's just the EG character's ingame avatars who has different skin and names?

If it's comedic, I suppose you could also go the Invader Zim route. "It's a skin condition!"

7477518
The crossover is Sword Art Online and Equestria Girls. Nothing stated below is a spoiler. I have the details on my page and blogs for readers to see. It took me a long time to write this response.

I finished the first story, EQG: Sword Art Online - Aincrad. That was completed last week (yay!) but I limited myself and the girls because I stayed 100% canon to SAO. It was supposed to a 10ish chapter adventure tale, but it grew and the readers wanted more. I set them in Canterlot, being some of the few lucky players from outside Japan. I was so strict, I didn't even put them in the first boss raid.

This time, while I need the SAO characters to stay themselves, so certain things can't change, there will be a full crossover/melding. I will be able to go off canon, put the girls in a more central role, etc. To get them in SAO, I have a 7 chapter "pilot episode" where they start as exchange students in Japan for the first semester of their senior year. It is much more of an organic start for having them have access to the game and NerveGear. And once getting trapped, they are put in nearly perfect replicas of their own bodies instead of their avatars. It was proof that they were not in a game anymore and if they died in game, their live would be over in any reality. I can't break from that canon SAO because it is central to everything. You are living in an alternative reality in the body you know.

The generic western setting of Canterlot easily matches up with SAO, because they are in different countries. I don't set Canterlot in any nation, but Sunset does go through customs with her passport and student visa after a long, international flight, etc. The point is, I don't have to change their background and I don't have to change the setting of SAO in Japan. Since they are exchange students, I really end up with a possibly perplexing issue of skin tones.

The other thing to consider, is that the previous story, EQG: Sword Art Online - Aincrad, is sort of being rewritten as EQG: Sword Art Online - Ruby Palace. Aincrad is a great story with lots of fun, so I am not trying to erase it. I am just going with the alt-u direction this time. Aincrad expanded in a way I wasn't prepared for and didn't have as much foreshadowing for some things, because I was writing more as I went than expected. Now that I went through the first story, I know where to improve, have had time to plan, etc. Between the stories, some things will remain unchanged because I was working off the girls characters. They will do the same thing in the same setting because it is who they are. One thing that will remain unchanges is the girls will form their own guild, the Wondercolts, with their school colors. Rarity will alter them from the pastel blue and yellow, to navy and gold, but it is basically their school colors.

As they become a powerful guild, which they do in Aincrad, I had to upgrade equipment, and Rarity makes a lot of it for them. Things like leather armor and equipment were/will be blue with yellow accents. In SAO, Heathcliff leads the most powerful clearing guild, The Knights of the Blood oath. Their colors are white and red, except as their leader, Heathcliff wears red with white to stand out. I wanted to do that with Aincrad, but Sunset's pastel skin color is amber. I checked with an artist friend to make sure I was correct and yellow or gold will wash out Sunset. Both the armor's look and things like her face since she does not wear a helmet. That leaves blue armor if I stay with the guild colors. Rarity craft's their image to be as unified as possible, which is in her character, so putting Sunset in any other colors would look wrong. The pastel yellow is bad for armor period and the blue isn't much better, which is why I am strengthening both to the bolder and more clear navy and gold.

The pastel skin colors don't work well with some colors. Blues would look bad on Dash. Fluttershy also can't wear too much yellow. Part of me feels like switching them to natural skin tones is removing a part of their character. Hair color and style stay canon. While theirs is bolder than most, plenty of people do multi-colored hair.

If I do natural tones, I don't think they all should be the same color. It has nothing to do with race, somewhat to do with ethnicity, but primarily it is because each of them is special. If they were not, the seven of them would all have the same pastel skin tone. Since Canterlot is a generic western city and CHS is a public school, I believe it is fair to assume that there would be diversity in skin tones. I would want that diversity to match their characters and be unique and special, just like their pastel colors are. The Fitzpatrick scale in the poll is for dermatologists and most ethnicities or "races" fit in two or more of the skin types identified. Even if they were all "white", that still fits into three or four types using that scale.

I don't want to do anything with race, the story isn't about that. Canon SAO isn't all Japanese ancestry either. Agil, a canon SAO character, his parents were from the US and moved to Japan because they fell in love with it. He is 100% black as well as tall and buff. Since he was born in Japan he is a Japanese citizen. PoH is Hispanic-American too, but not a Japanese citizen. As stated, this isn't about race, but I want the skin tones to feel natural to the reader based on each of the girls as an individual. If the right skin tone is their canon pastel tones, then fine, but I am on the fence about it either way.

And yes, I do have at least one scene early on where Sunset is examining herself after her avatar was switched to her body. The NerveGear has to calibrate, so you move and touch parts to give it a reading, and the headpiece can see the players faces, which is how it got the data to recreate their bodies.

Thanks. These questions help me think, and give me the perspectives of others, which is invaluable.

7476946
Well, this is very new.

First off, let me gush about EQG Aincrad. It is awesome! I'm only on like chapter 20-something right now because I found it about a week ago scrolling through a anime group, but it is quickly becoming one of my favorite series. The amount of detail you had put into demonstrating the characters and properly detailing their characters gives me respect for you and for your work. I love how in every chapter, you manage to go ahead and properly list out their stats, their attacks, and give the characters more details than just BS-ing it and saying 'Oh hey, they have this, this, and this ability for plot convenience'.

Now, onto my response. I find respect in you wanting others opinions on skin tone. While you could have easily just chosen for them to go ahead and keep their pastel colors from canon, you want to find others opinions if you want to go and use natural skin tones if you chose to. In this day and age, it's a dumb this but a very real thing about racial discrimination and the choice of skin tones in real life and in the internet itself (Seriously, I read a reddit post a few days back about some user b**ching about some authors choice of changing Naruto's skin tone in their fic).

Personally, If I was to write a fic with the Main 7 with Natural Skin Tones (I have some ideas), I'd look at their environment where they work. Good examples are Twilight and Applejack. Twilight I'd write as having pale skin tones, as paleness comes from a lack of vitamin D, and I'd wager that Twilight would have a pale tone due to her time inside. By contrast, I'd write Applejack to have a deeper skin tone (I'd go with about option 4 on that scale you showed us in your Google Form) since she is presented as a outdoor worker who spends her time helping around outside.

7482363
Thank you for your input. I am really glad you found it and to hear you are enjoying the story! I gave it my all and I never want to BS a reader. Logic is important. Don't be afraid to leave comments! I get notifications for them.

And race is what I am trying to keep out, and if they had natural tones, I would not have to ask the question. But there are some moments when they are logically examining themselves in Aincrad, for a few reasons. Trying on new clothes is a big one, and Rarity is Rarity, she won't stop making stuff for her friends. lol. So, I don't feel like I can skip it without losing the depth and feel I want. Its a critical detail that when left out, leaves a hole. Not critical for any racial reasons, but critical to reach the depth. Often you want to not bog down readers with too many finite details, but those moments, details matters.

I should have written the Fitzpatrick scale better. I received great responses. I value all of them greatly. I failed to mention properly that the Fitzpatrick scale is for non-tanned skin, as tanning is not permanent, even for a farm girl. It wasn't easy finding a good scale and then explaining all the research and application of it was another task entirely. Make-up companies have plenty that are not racial or ethnically bound, but they got way to complicated with undertones and a lot of consideration you need for beauty products, but not a story. lol

7482464
I find details to be incredibly tedious to write, but very much worth it in the end. If I went ahead and just belted the next chapter of my story, I would receive backlash against critical details in the fandom. For example, it was long, but worth it when I had to re-watch all of The Clone Wars so I would know the plot line needed for my fic, otherwise if I just used the characters and the info I got from Fandom, I would get comments about how I wrote the characters wrong. (Which reminds me, I have to re-write my chapters now because of how I wrote them initially without planning everything out.)

Also, who drew that profile pic of yours? It looks wonderful, and would make a good option for a Sunset Shimmer fic I was thinking about writing in the future

7482468
I have the Light Novels on hand for writing, along with the wiki and anime. I don't have the progressive novels, so I need the wiki for that info, but info vs matching the characters is different for sure. I've watched SAO so many times to work things right, I totally understand.

And the artist is RacoonKun. The linked deviantart account is SFW, but their patreon is NSFW. I've been following them for a while.

7482472
Nice. I've heard of his work before, top notch according to other users. Also, I heard that the plotline of the SAO novels differs from that of the anime, is this true?

7482503
To a certain degree, yes. Direct plot, no. There are definitely differences. Most minor that don't effect the overall story. They are two different mediums, and the author started it as an online novel in 2005, so there was time to developed it after he started which was reflected in the print editions of the Light Novels, and in the anime. The mediums are so different, where one is strong, the other is weak and vice a verse.