I know people have already grown tired of my negativity towards the comic enough as it is, but…

Am I the only one who noted the significant plot hole caused by Sombra’s reformation in the story? Mainly considering the references it made to the “Reflections” arc?

I mean, the Sombra of the other MLP dimension turned himself evil with dark magic based on the Sombra of the original dimension being evil. It was all part of his plan to make his Equestria exactly like the original so that balance between the two worlds could be restored.

However, when the Sombra of the original universe reformed and got turned into a regular unicorn, it openly caused his world to get differentiated. Because of this, the two worlds got imbalanced from one another, and it basically caused the other universe Sombra’s sacrifice to be for nothing!

Wouldn’t Sombra’s reformation in “Siege of the Crystal Empire” basically put both universes at risk? To go into a cataclysmic event that’s similar or exactly like the one depicted in “Reflections”?

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Sombra turning good could have just been one side effect of Reverse Sombra turning evil.

7685710
That doesn’t make any sense, though. It would only be another way for the balance between the two universes to get out of whack again, and it would still downplay the sacrifice made by the other universe’s Sombra.

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A Man Undercover, Why do hate Villain Reformations so much? Are you okay with Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow being turned into stone at the Season 9 Finale? Because I really don't like that part but hey at the Season satisfied me two guilty pleasure reformations namely Daring Do's enemies and Garble.

7685718
I have nothing against reformations in general. There are many that I’ve actually enjoyed over the years, such as the reformations of Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer.

However, there are others that I dislike because they were poorly done beyond other things, such as the reformation of Vignette Valencia. Also, I deeply despise the reformations of both Caballeron and Ahuizotl, the latter being particularly because the little retcon with him at the end makes no sense at all!

Also, yes, I actually liked that Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow weren’t reformed and got turned to stone. Among the reasons for why is because they hardly have enough reason to be reformed, and at the one time they were offered that chance, all they did was turn it down.

7685711

To be honest, nothing about the way the universe mirroring worked in Reflections made sense. Characters turn good or evil or feel physical pain seemingly at random, based solely on what other, unrelated characters in another universe do, with no regard to their own actions, personalities, or free will. It's all very messed up. But if we accept the weird logic of Reflections as it is, then none of this is really out of place. Everyone talked a lot about restoring balance, but they never said anything about breaking this weird cosmic system. They were still working within the confines of its rules.

The primary goal of stopping the evil Celestia was to prevent the universes from colliding, which they did. But even if they disentangled their universes, it was still accepted as a given that both Celestias would need to be imprisoned for it. The goal of Sombra's sacrifice was to save the universes without losing Celestia, and he did that too, by forcibly reforming evil Celestia so that both Celestias could stay. So everything he set out to do, he technically achieved. But as far as I'm aware, nobody ever said anything about restoring free will so that nobody would turn good or evil at random anymore, otherwise Sombra wouldn't have needed to turn evil in the first place, and there never would've been any need to sacrifice both Celestias to stop only one.

After all that, the prime Sombra reforming just seems like the natural course of events in this system. Of course, you're right that this means that the universes are technically unbalanced, and one side's Celestia and Luna would probably have to make another switch to get it right again, but again, that just seems like the expected consequence of Sombra's actions. He's the one who wanted to sidestep the necessary sacrifice and keep both Celestias around, and we've already established what happens when characters switch alignments in the Reflections multiverse. Maybe Sombra thought that turning himself evil with the other Celestia's magic would be an acceptable substitute to the universe for Celestia turning? But there's really no good reason to assume that in the circumstances, so again, this unbalancing is the obvious outcome.

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Honestly, that doesn’t make sense. It still causes Sombra’s sacrifice to be for nothing, and Prime Sombra reforming would surely cause the two universes to go into another cataclysmic catastrophe.

7685936

No, because Celestia's or Sombra's moral alignments weren't the issue. The cause of the catastrophe was that Celestia kept crossing into Sombra's world to an unsafe level, which Star Swirl specifically warned against. I don't know why visiting other universes is okay in Equestria Girls but bad here (my personal theory is that it's a fault in Star Swirl's original mirror, which he fixed when he made the human world one), but nonetheless, that is stated to be the case, and it's a situation which got worse over the course of the arc with the mane six crossing over, and which evil Celestia was deliberately exacerbating. Sombra's use of the Elements of Harmony fixed this and set the universes back to where they started, and to stay fixed, all that needs to happen is for the worlds remain closed to each other and for nobody else to cross over. That part hasn't changed. Nor will it likely ever, since the mirror was destroyed in the final issue.

7685942
No, but the whole Sombra Prime reforming thing is still a gigantic plot hole regardless of the things you said, and it certainly wasn’t natural, justifiable, or needed.

7685948

It was badly written in Siege, I'll give you that, but why is it a plot hole? As we established, the universes always had opposite moral alignments with character reformations or falls affecting both sides, and nothing changed about that in the climax of Reflections; they just stopped the universes from merging and saved the princesses. And moral alignment has nothing to do with the merge, so Sombra reforming shouldn't affect anything in that regard either. I don't see what you're getting at.

7685710 Maybe, but wouldn't that have meant that as soon as Sombra was resurrected in "Siege" he would've turned good to correct the imbalance?

7686007
That’s exactly what I was wondering.

If Sombra Prime turned good while Alternate Prime stayed evil, what could that mean for the entire cosmos?

7685950

It was badly written in Siege, I'll give you that, but why is it a plot hole?

Because of this:

All two dimensions are supposed to be directly tied with each other after the events of “Reflections”, right down to how similar a blade of grass in one dimension is to another. Even if what you say is true, it was established in “Reflections” that the slightest difference between the two universes would cause some kind of catastrophe.

Other than that, if Sombra Prime reformed, what would that mean for Alternate Sombra? Would he be reformed? Or would he stay evil?

7686157 Plus, wasn't the whole point of alternate Sombra turning evil being that he had to correct the imbalances caused by the two universes merging? Kind of gives the impression that him turning evil and the mirror being destroyed means the two universes aren't connected anymore.

7686167

Even if what you say is true, it was established in “Reflections” that the slightest difference between the two universes would cause some kind of catastrophe.

No it wasn't, because the universes being different wasn't what caused the disaster. The universes were different before they visited each other, and they were still different afterwards (we are directly shown this on the last page). The disaster was caused by ponies from Equestria prime visiting Sombra's Equestria and causing the universes to bond too closely. This is said multiple times in the story by various different characters, and I can provide quotes if you want me to.

I would also point out that making the two universes become as similar as you're claiming is categorically impossible. It's not just Celestia, Luna, and Sombra that were opposites in that story. Every character we saw was an opposite. The other universe's mane six were criminals. Their Discord was a superhero. Their Trixie was an alicorn renowned for her humility. For what you say to be true, Sombra would have had to rewrite the memories and personalities of every single individual in his Equestria at once, including turning all of his most trusted friends and allies into villains as well, and that's before worrying about changing things like the geography, recorded history, Equestrian culture at large, etc. Not to mention that Sombra's universe didn't have its own Elements of Harmony, so Sombra would've had to create a set of his own. Sombra literally would've had to have been a god to pull all this off.

Other than that, if Sombra Prime reformed, what would that mean for Alternate Sombra? Would he be reformed? Or would he stay evil?

Alternate Sombra would stay evil, because the universes are opposites, because that's how the story says it works.

7686247

I'll explain this for you too, while I'm in the thread.

Plus, wasn't the whole point of alternate Sombra turning evil being that he had to correct the imbalances caused by the two universes merging?

I can see why this would be confusing, but no. The explicit purpose of Sombra's self-sacrifice was to save Celestia. The universes had become so entangled that hurting one Celestia also hurt the other, so it seemed like the only two choices were to either surrender to evil Celestia to save good Celestia, or to defeat evil Celestia by sealing both Celestias away with the Elements. This was not acceptable to Sombra, so instead he took the third option of borrowing the Elements from the mane six, and using them to take the "evil" out of the evil Celestia somehow, so that both Celestias could stay free. He then became evil himself because, according to the comic, the evil had to go somewhere else, so he took it on himself.

Undoing the universes merging was a largely unrelated issue that just happened to be solved at the same time, and could've just as easily been accomplished without Sombra's sacrifice or anyone changing alignments.

Kind of gives the impression that him turning evil and the mirror being destroyed means the two universes aren't connected anymore.

The universes not being connected anymore is a valid interpretation of the ending. It's unclear by the end if the universes are still connected or not, and to what degree, so either is possible. And Sombra being redeemed is not incompatible with either theory. If the universes are still connected, then prime Sombra turned good because alternate Sombra turned evil, which is consistent with how it worked for everyone else. And if the universes aren't connected anymore, then prime Sombra just coincidentally turned good of his own free will, and it affects nothing in the other world.

7686267

Alternate Sombra would stay evil, because the universes are opposites, because that's how the story says it works.

Kind of gives the impression that him turning evil and the mirror being destroyed means the two universes aren't connected anymore.

Actually, if I recall correctly, the alternate universe being reshaped into being exactly like Equestria Prime would make the two universes more connected than most would think. Even if the mirror was destroyed. In order for the two universes to be completely their own, there'd have to be significant differences between them. But, that's sadly not the case.

The other universe's mane six were criminals. Their Discord was a superhero. Their Trixie was an alicorn renowned for her humility. For what you say to be true, Sombra would have had to rewrite the memories and personalities of every single individual in his Equestria at once, including turning all of his most trusted friends and allies into villains as well, and that's before worrying about changing things like the geography, recorded history, Equestrian culture at large, etc. Not to mention that Sombra's universe didn't have its own Elements of Harmony, so Sombra would've had to create a set of his own. Sombra literally would've had to have been a god to pull all this off.

That's literally what his sacrifice would go on to establish.

With Alternate Sombra being able to do such a feat, it establishes that he's more than just a regular unicorn. With the fact that he changed his universe to be like Equestria Prime's, the Main Six would be reborn into heroes instead of criminals, Trixie would become a unicorn and have the same kind of personality that's much like Equestria Prime's Trixie, and Discord would become a chaos god who's either a villain like Equestria Prime's Discord was in his early days or an ant-hero during the lifetime of the Main Six. Everyone's memories and personalities would also be altered until their traits are like that of their Equestria Prime counterparts, and so would the universe's overall geography and history.

Basically, everything would be changed until it's exactly like Equestria Prime. It's why I believe Prime Sombra reforming while Alternate Sombra not reforming would open a can of worms that'd once again threaten the two individual universes, and why I believe it creates a significant plot hole considering the established connection between Reflections and Siege.

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This is Sombra, after the end of the arc, still with his original memories, next to a statue of Captain Goodguy, which is apparently also placed in a wishing garden, a cultural oddity explicitly stated to be unique to Sombra's Equestria. You cannot get any more explicit than this that Sombra's Equestria still exists as its own entity separate from Equestria prime.

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Regardless of what the picture is featuring, it would obviously take a little time for Alternate Sombra's universe as a whole to be like Equestria Prime's. Therefore, that statue wouldn't be there after just 24 hours, and the alternate Discord would no longer be Captain Good Guy after just one day. The only thing both Celestia Prime and Alternate Sombra would preserve are their memories.

As it also stands, it doesn't change the fact that the characters of both universes will have to share in their respective roles and parts. If Sombra Prime reformed while Alternate Sombra didn't, I have a feeling that it would still cause a cataclysmic catastrophe.

7686286

This is all pure headcanon. I'm not trying to be rude or flippant here, but none of what you're saying is actually in the comic or supported by the comic. If you really think I'm wrong, then please, pick up your copy of Reflections and point out the page number for me where you think it says this, because I genuinely don't know where you're getting this from, and I can't continue this conversation until we're (no pun intended) on the same page. Because right now, it just sounds like we read two completely different stories.

7686296
I suppose this is another reason as to why I’m not a fan of the majority of the MLP comics. I’ve found myself confused and unable to make sense of their overall concepts, and they would often infuriate me in many ways.

7686319

That, I do not blame you for at all. In my opinion, while Reflections is still better than a lot of the arcs that came after it (especially Siege), it still wasn't very coherent or well-written. Even once you do understand it perfectly, the arc itself still doesn't make much sense. Katie Cook tried to write a pony take on Fringe, and the story handled some interesting concepts, but ultimately, I think some of those ideas were a bad fit for the series, and some were just too complicated for her to communicate effectively. It really showed the weaknesses in her writing style.

7686331
I agree.

Her concept for “Reflections” definitely held a lot of potential, but it just wasn’t very well-handled, coherent, or written.