As we all know, in this episode, Starlight Glimmer is called to Canterlot to solve a friendship problem and easily deciphers that it's between Celestia and Luna. Neither sister appreciates what the other contributes to Equestria or takes notice of the strain playing their part puts on the other. The episode, as always, draws to a conclusion where both sisters have learned their lesson...but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of accusations to go around.

To start off with, let's speak on Celestia and Luna's conduct that started this entire feud. These two are rulers of a vast country; been alive thousands of years, faced countless enemies and have wisdom that their subjects can hardly ever hope to comprehend. So I can't be the only one that feels like they should be above letting petty squabbles like this fester! Granted; just because they are royalty doesn't absolve them of having emotions and it's in their right to feel whatever they wish to feel. However, that doesn't excuse the fact that they handled this situation in a manner you would expect from children! It shouldn't have taken a mission from the Cutie Map for them to resolve this problem they were having; taking a couple of minutes out of the day and night to see how the other side lives would've solved the predicament in record time! But no. Celestia and Luna chose to harbor grudges against the other, let it fester and hide inside of them instead of actually speaking on how they were feeling!

And the real clincher here? They know what could be a possible outcome to allowing these emotions to run unchecked; Nightmare Moon became reality and it means Daybreaker can too. Equestria could be out one, if not two princesses should both of them ever lose control! Knowing this, however, they still did nothing! It would be all too therapeutic to have somepony, anypony call them out on their behavior.

Now...let's talk about Starlight Glimmer. Once again, Starlight compulsively used her magic against her fellow pony. Only this time, she used it on the rulers of her entire nation! I know I probably sound like a broken record by bringing this up again, but come on! We've seen growth from Starlight, we've seen that there is more to her than just being Twilight's student and begrudgingly doing her lessons. So it is even more inexcusable when she resorts back into her old ways, especially seeing how far she's come! And once again, she just gets away with it! There was no reprimanding, no punishment, no anything that told her what she did was wrong. Yes, Celestia and Luna were less than pleased when she first cast the spell, but this initial bout of annoyance is negated when they tell her it was the right call, after all.

And to those of you that will try to defend her actions by saying it all worked out in the end, I offer this; "the end doesn't justify the means". Yes, her first approach at getting the sisters to talk to one another wasn't working and was even spiraling into dangerous territory, but she still should've continued to try and defuse the situation. Not jump to the immediate response to switching their cutie marks! Like it or not, Starlight gets away with using her magic irresponsibly far more than anybody else on screen; Twilight gets flak for when she uses her magic when it isn't needed, Winter Wrap-Up and Lesson Zero are prime examples of this. Yet, where is Starlight's lecture? Where is her explanation as to why what she did was wrong or why it won't be tolerated? Another factor into this irresponsible use of magic is that other ponies are enabling it! Nothing bad ever happens to her when she decides to use her powers with such reckless abandon, so she must obviously feel like it's okay to continue doing things like this since she hasn't gotten into any real trouble because of it. She needs to be called out and punished to get the point across of "STOP USING YOUR MAGIC RECKLESSLY!"

Last, but not least, let's discuss Twilight's role in this whole dilemma. Starlight's actions are her own, I won't remove myself from that; it was her own conscious choice to use her magic the way she did and she should still suffer ramifications for it. Yet, that doesn't mean Twilight didn't play a role in pushing her into making that choice. We've all seen evidence of this; the main trigger that pushes Starlight back into her old ways is stress and anxiety. But, when she first sees that she is getting called on her own mission, she's more ecstatic than anything! However, Twilight's own neurotic ramblings about how wrong everything can go are what drive Starlight into a near nervous breakdown! So much so that she plays a massive role in the nightmare that Starlight had in the episode! It is unacceptable that she allowed herself to cause her own student so much grief because she couldn't control her own emotions on the situation and didn't stop to think about how she was making Starlight feel. If all she were going to do was criticize Starlight on her actions, push how dire the situation is and put terrible scenarios in her head, she should've never used that spell to "check up on her". And, as is the running theme in the series, she doesn't. even. apologize. Twilight decides to just drag Starlight away to have her give a formal report on everything that happened without so much as an apology to how she herself acted!

That's all I have to say, but please, share your own thoughts and let's have a nice discussion.

6016714

That was an awesome breakdown of every problem with this episode. You, sir, have earned my respect.

6016755

I'm actually a girl, but I still appreciate the compliment!

6016714
I just wanna talk about the first part.

As you said, Celestia and Luna are allowed to feel what they want to feel. They're still ponies even if they each have enough power to demolish Equestria in one go if they wanted to. That's fine, dandy even. What's not okay? It's almost as if BOTH OF THEM FORGOT NIGHTMARE MOON'S ENTIRE EXISTENCE!

Luna! The hell are you doing? You not speaking up the first time caused you to get banished to the goddess damned moon! WHY would you just not speak up? Do you like the moon? Do you enjoy being banished there? Did you have some kind of solitude thing going? (clearly because she even states in the episode that she enjoyed having the time and space to work on her problems.)

Celestia! The HELL are you doing? You don't have the same excuse as Luna. Not only have you been lifting the fucking moon for a thousand years, so you should already know how tiring that is, but you also should have learned the same lesson Luna did about Nightmare Moon. You've seen firsthand the freaking effects of bottling things up and you do it anyway?

And there's the voice in my mind nagging me because the princesses do act like children. And, unfortunately, they are equivalent of gods and all gods are petty children when you get down to it. Celestia has to bottle her emotions every day because she has to put on a calm smile for all of her subjects, regardless of the situation, so she no doubt assumed she needed to do the same with her own family. After all, she has been without Luna for a thousand years. That's like Anna and Elsa from Frozen basically. Luna didn't have the growth of those thousand years that Celestia did, dooming her to be stuck in her state of childishness until she could get back to her home and begin growing once more. Not only that, but Luna herself says that Celestia's magic doesn't work in the Dream Realm, which means Celestia couldn't access it at all and didn't have to fight nightmares like Luna does. She wouldn't know how tiring fighting is if all she had to do was lift the moon, go to sleep, and lower it again.

To that voice, I say FUCK YOU because they are the rulers of a country. If you have already seen what happens when you hold things in, why would you continue to do it? Nightmare Moon and Daybreaker serve as a good wakeup call to Celestia and Luna, but they shouldn't have needed it from Starlight because they each should have known about it in the first place. It's infuriating to see them that way when they know the ramifications and until relatively recently, Luna didn't even begin forgiving herself for it! Celestia, either! They were both guilty over this thing they both did, but then they just go back to causing it all over again? Forgive me if I just find that difficult to believe in its entirety.

Sorry, that was the only real thing bothering me throughout the whole episode. The childish manner is unjustifiable in any respect.

6016714 I think of Starlight situation like this. What if you knew your rulers (who control the SUN and MOON) were arguing. And that if It escalated into a fight it could destroy your home country. And when you tried to calm down the situation you are either ignored or shoved aside. Then you remember you have magic and have Three seconds to make decision based on the tone of your rulers voices. That was Starlight's situation.

And Twilight was worried that Starlight might get banished or killed. And what I find strange is why Twilight is scared of Celestia If she is almost just as powerful. And she know's Celestia doesn't like hurting others. So why is she so scared? Please comment if i'm missing something.

As for Celestia and Luna...... I agree they were acting like children. And were being absolutely stuped.

6016777
No problem.

6016714
6016783
I just very recently had a discussion with someone on this very topic and I've come to the conclusion that it would be far better that they are to be separated and rule their respective kingdoms far away from each other cause let's face it, Celestia's little "We were meant to rule together!" speech to Luna back in first two episodes of the series is clearly not working out.

6016791

That doesn't mean that the cutie mark switching spell was the only option in the situation. We saw Twilight cast a spell in "The Hoofields and McColts" that froze both warring families into statues until she released them and we know Starlight is just as strong as she is; freezing them for a few seconds or a minute to try and explain both sides argument to the other would've been a much better solution. And we saw Starlight use a spell that made Big Mac unable to stop talking; who's to say she can't reverse it or knows another spell that can stop a pony from talking. Silencing them to be given a chance to speak would've worked as well!

But that's exactly my point; Twilight let her own worries get in the way of Starlight's mission and kept her from providing the support that she had wanted to give her student. And Twilight should know better than to think that Celestia or Luna would do either of those things by now. And I'm pretty sure it's because she just jumps to conclusions like she's doing parkour.

6016832 Starlight probably didn't think of that spell. And maybe there isn't the opposite of the talk spell, We don't know that. She thought she had do something and fast. It's like when you have to think of something fast but all you got is a stuped situation but it's the only salution you have, and you don't have time to think of a better salution to your problem. And with that high stakes I said before she felt it was the only thing to do. only after the spell did she relised how stuped of a plan that was.

6016840

If that is the case, then that arises another problem; why is the go-to spell when she wants another pony to listen to her tied to the fundamental thing that expresses a pony's individuality and in-tune with their destiny in life? Why hasn't she pushed spells that affect cutie marks to the far reaches of her mind? Yes, the situation was stressful, but there is still the freezing spell that Twilight knew. And it is an all-too real possibility that she taught it to Starlight since she's been teaching her about magic as well as friendship.

6016846 Well we don't know how long Starlight has been with Twilight. So maybe it hasn't been enough time to pass for her to break that habbit. For all we know Starlight could have been with Twilight for a few months. And she knew cutie mark magic for years.

6016840
And she got off scottfree for it. Whenever another character makes an impulsive decision like that, they don't get off free (Sunset's stage dive in Rainbow Rocks, Twilight's entire plot in It's About Time, and Twilight shouting fake Cadance is evil all come to mind). Also, it doesn't help that she gave up and resorted to magic after half a conversation. She didn't even try talking to them alone before using apparently uncancelable magic in blind magic, forcing her will on them.

6016714
6016791
Few things to bring up. We know Celestia and Luna are older than a thousand, but not how much or when they started ruling. Next, they aren't that powerful. Sure they out do most unicorns, but besides their talents for the sun and moon (which was done by a council of unicorns before and talents give a huge boost to related magic), they haven't really displayed any god tier abilities (not to mention that their sun and moon have almost nothing to do with ours, for all we know, they could be the size of an Ursa Minor). Starlight breaks rules of magic and improves Starswirl spells with relatively little trouble. Also, neither Celestia or Luna have demonstrated particularly good fighting technique. Nightmare Moon pulled a bunch of tricks before the fight, but did almost nothing during it, Celestia went into a beam struggle and lost to Chrysalis, the Celestia vs Nightmare Moon fight wasn't much. The most we got was Celestia fighting Sombra's minions, where she showed some technique, against untrained mind controlled soldiers. Compare that to how Starlight captured Twilight and how she adapted to everything Twilight threw at her, then how they improved at the start of Every Little Thing She Does. Even if they have more raw power (and it wouldn't be too much), Starlight and Twilight should be able to take them at this point, not to mention Discord.

What really bugged me was Celestia and Luna. Luna has shown herself to be much more mature than this. Between her dream lessons to the CMC, her personal issues in Luna Returns and Do Princesses Dream, and actually wanting to help with Sombra (instead of risking Equestria on a fake out test), her suddenly being petty and not either sitting Celestia down and talking or snapping and yelling seems very out of character. Oh, and Nightmare Moon happened... Celestia on the other hand has been shown to be pretty oblivious and occasionally immature. A Bird In The Hoof and A Canterlot Wedding come to mind, where she misses the painfully obvious, cases like Return of Harmony, A Canterlot Wedding, The Crystal Empire, and Twilight's Kingdom show her with the strategic ability of a goldfish, and cases like ACW (again), Crystal Empire, and Celestial advice show her carrying more about personal feelings than the bigger issues. We also get cases like the fan service episode, where she's downright petty, and No Second Prances, where she just gets grumpy and impatient instead of considering something could've gone very wrong (Twilight of all ponies just leaving her alone like that should've at least raised an eyebrow). Still, she lost Luna before (which iirc she said was the worst day of her life) and yet is completely snubbing her here instead of considering that the pony who went crazy from being under appreciated (and maybe lonely) is feeling under appreciated...

6016714
This.

ALL. OF. THIS.

This is the wake-up call people need to realize this episode is manufactured, Starlight-pandering garbage. They gave us a Princess episode, something we've been waiting for for years, and threw in Starlight's usual incorrigible malarkey somehow expecting us to want her as much as we want the episode she's in.

I got news for these writers: wrapping a turd in a taco will not make me want to eat the turd. You can't give us a shoddy, unteachable, useless character and then stick her into everything we actually do want, and expect us to like her more. That's not character development, that's annoying, pandering, lazy and obtrusive, and the fact that you've done characters like her before, but BETTER (Sunset Shimmer) means that you have no excuses and ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

But I digress.

Anyway, thanks for posting this. I'm glad someone sees this episode for the cheap manipulation tactic it is. Kudos.

I hate to be That Guy, but this is a half-hour episodic TV-Y rated kids show. The entire setup, conflict, resolution, and wrap up of virtually every plot has to be compressed into twenty-two minutes. Every interpersonal conflict must be so simple and shallow that it can be fixed in that short span of time. Celestia and Luna can't have an episode where they experience and resolve the sort of meaningful interpersonal conflict that wise ageless rulers might have because it would take too long. We cannot have an episode on the subject unless they are squabbling dolts. Replacing Starlight with someone else or having her use different methods or whether or not she's punished or rewarded doesn't really touch the core problem.

6016714
While I can agree with the analysis of Twilight and the princesses' behavior in this episode, I just can't agree with what's said about Starlight Glimmer.

The mare tried words. She tried speaking to Celestia and Luna, tried to find a more peaceful and less magicky way to help resolve the argument between Celestia and Luna. None of them were willing to listen. Sure, had it been an argument between any old pony, it'd be much easier to cut losses. But these are two beings who hold control over two things vital to life in Equestria. The last time something like this happened, Equestria was under the threat of eternal night (which would've eventually exterminated all life). Even if that had been averted by Nightmare Moon's banishment, the ones kept safe by Luna's dream magic had to suffer for a thousand years.

Chances are Starlight's actions were indeed out of reflex more than anything. But if the endgame of potential failure is another world-threatening situation, taking risks like that become absolutely necessary.

6017048

6016777
I think women are still addressed as "sir" in the army... or at least in Advance Wars: Dual Strike and Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

6017048
So... Starlight did nothing wrong is what you're trying to say?

If that is the case... So what? As the creator of this thread so eloquently put it, the ends do not justify the means. That is pretty how every dictator in history thought and it had some pretty horrifying things happen (holocaust, massacre of the Hebrew young in ancient Egypt, concentration camps, etc.).

6016783

to the goddess damned moon!

That's "IN the moon". Say it the way Lauren Faust wrote it, will ya?

6016830
I'm not so sure about that. After all the times they shared on screen together, this is probably the first episode where we've seen disagreements between them, which apparently sprouted into a verbal fight. But come on, ruling their own kingdoms after only that one incident? It's not like they've fought at any earlier points in the series... Did they?

6017082
Slice of Life (episode 100)? But that was more civil than this.

6017083
Yeah, so what I'm saying is that while this episode seemed to anger a lot of fans... Wait a minute. I sense hypocrisy here. Do you sense hypocrisy?

6017086
What hypocrisy... Oh. Yeah I sense some hypocrisy.

6017088
Yep. The particular side of the fandom that tends to whine, moan, and cry fowl. And yet to them, it's not okay when Celestia and Luna do it in the show and that same part of the fandom says they're acting like children? So what I'm asking is did this episode in no way wake up anyone in the fandom who's still absent-minded to realize what they sound like? Gosh, I wonder if that was the intention of the writer.

Yeah, that hypocrisy. ...That was what you were thinking, was it?

6017090
Yeah. I know I can be whiny little bitch sometimes... but I never thought about Celestia and Luna squabbles like that until you actually said something. Doesn't make this episode much better, but it is certainly something to think about.

6017080
I'm saying that desperate times called for desperate measures. Words failed, and with that much on the line, there was little choice outside of brute force. Why should Starlight be condemned for acting to stop a catastrophe, especially when the princesses refused to acknowledge it themselves?

6017094
I think it was whatever magic spell she was casting, so I've heard.

6017094
Even when there were far better ways it could have been handled? Like, say, a freezing spell?

6017093
As far as any whiny bronies go, yes.

6016714

Now...let's talk about Starlight Glimmer. Once again, Starlight compulsively used her magic against her fellow pony. Only this time, she used it on the rulers of her entire nation! I know I probably sound like a broken record by bringing this up again, but come on! We've seen growth from Starlight, we've seen that there is more to her than just being Twilight's student and begrudgingly doing her lessons. So it is even more inexcusable when she resorts back into her old ways, especially seeing how far she's come! And once again, she just gets away with it! There was no reprimanding, no punishment, no anything that told her what she did was wrong. Yes, Celestia and Luna were less than pleased when she first cast the spell, but this initial bout of annoyance is negated when they tell her it was the right call, after all.

And to those of you that will try to defend her actions by saying it all worked out in the end, I offer this; "the end doesn't justify the means". Yes, her first approach at getting the sisters to talk to one another wasn't working and was even spiraling into dangerous territory, but she still should've continued to try and defuse the situation. Not jump to the immediate response to switching their cutie marks! Like it or not, Starlight gets away with using her magic irresponsibly far more than anybody else on screen; Twilight gets flak for when she uses her magic when it isn't needed, Winter Wrap-Up and Lesson Zero are prime examples of this. Yet, where is Starlight's lecture? Where is her explanation as to why what she did was wrong or why it won't be tolerated? Another factor into this irresponsible use of magic is that other ponies are enabling it! Nothing bad ever happens to her when she decides to use her powers with such reckless abandon, so she must obviously feel like it's okay to continue doing things like this since she hasn't gotten into any real trouble because of it. She needs to be called out and punished to get the point across of "STOP USING YOUR MAGIC RECKLESSLY!"

I reference this little quote:

Starlight:"Haven't you learned anything about using magic to solve your problems"

Trixie: "Nope. If we did, how would we ever have any fun?"

It pretty much states the writers will never give Starlight that kind of development. *sigh*

6017096
And even that has its faults. What was a guarantee that one of the princesses didn't just break free and, in a fit of anger, strike back? What you see as a better solution may have ended with a resolution much worse than what we saw in the episode.

6017096
Assuming that would've worked on them, or that they wouldn't have just shaken the spell off.

6017099

Starlight:"Haven't you learned anything about using magic to solve your problems"

Trixie: "Nope. If we did, how would we ever have any fun?"

It pretty much states the writers will never give Starlight that kind of development. *sigh*

You seem to have confused what Trixie said for what Starlight said.

6017100
Really? You actually think Celestia and Luna, in their right minds, would openly attack a pony who is trying to help? What show have you been watching? Because I don't think we're watching the same show.

6017102
And you seem to have confused me with an idiot. I don't care if Trixie or Starlight said it, the fact it was said at all is my proof.

6017104
I'm not saying they'd do it on purpose. Maybe they got caught in the heat of their own argument, the wake of their own emotions. We did see Luna use her magic to shove Starlight out of the way to resume the argument. What's not to say that continued intervention like that wouldn't have earned a much nastier response?

6017107
And a freezing wouldn't gain attention so Starlight wouldn't be able to make a proposal to switch the cutie marks? You clearly underestimate Luna and Celestia's ability to see reason.

6017110
Their want to allow petty arguments to escalate to such high levels certainly expresses that ability in spades.

6017117
Why do you insist that this was the only way it could have been handled? I've given a couple of scenarios where it could have been better handled, but you refuse to accept them. Do you just love Glimmer that much? Do you hate Luna and Celestia? What?

6017121
Im not saying that. But you seem to be agreeing that Starlight should be punished for what she did when she was acting to defuse a volatile situation. Maybe it wasn't the best way or the only way. But there are just times where you can only make a decision right then and there and pray it's the right one, regardless of risk.

6017124
I'm just saying Starlight wasn't without fault. I'm not saying damn her to hell. A simple scolding would have been fine with me.

6017126
Cathartic for you, maybe. But pointless in terms of the show. What could she be scolded for? "Using magic on two quarreling, world-shifting beings against their will?" If this was something comparable to Twilight's episode in Lesson Zero, then a scolding would be understandable. But here, in a situation where the greater good was considered? I just don't see it.

6017082
Slice of Life, during the wedding scene.

And was it relatively minor in comparison to how "A Royal Problem" is described?

6017128
But why is it pointless? Aren't you assuming quite a lot here? You assume that Celestia and Luna are able to shake off a freezing spell when there is no canonical proof of it. You assume that it would be perfectly in character for Celestia and Luna to start destroying each other if Starlight's spell hadn't been cast when the existence of Nightmare Moon and Luna's guilt of that time is kind of proof against that? There is a lot of assuming here instead of sticking to what is canonically shown. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but assuming things leaves you wide open for error.

You know what they say about assuming, right? It makes an ass out of you and me.

6017162
Oh no, assuming would mean that I wholeheartedly believe that what I'm saying is absolute. Everything I've said is meant to be little more than theories. I'm fully aware that I could be wrong and you could be right and vice-versa. And if I am, then I applaud you for pointing out the flaws in my logic and giving me the chance to fix myself.

That being said, the reason why I believe it to be pointless because (and I say this in spite of OP) everything turned out better than expected. If the situation had degraded further because of the Cutie Mark switching, scolding would be understandable. If she chose the method right off the bat instead of looking for alternate solutions, it'd be understandable. But there was a good outcome, and the conflict was resolved without damage.

6017181
Let's just agree to disagree and end this discussion on a good note, okay? After all, I think we've pretty much reached a stalemate.

6017185
Fair enough. It was fun debating with you.

6017156
At some point, you'll have to move on, though.

6017081
Is there a reason I should? Everyone in the series says 'to' the moon. Even in the episode proper, Twilight herself says, "The last time they fought, Luna was sent to the moon for a thousand years." (Not her exact words, but she does say banished to the moon.) I was upset when I wrote it and I'll stay upset about this issue. They need therapy sessions. With ponies who aren't Twilight or Starlight.