I've made my case on this on a few different threads, but I figured I might as well post the best representation of my feelings on a separate one altogether. This episode and the following one with Trixie just irks me way too much, you know? Let's think back:

Trixie first came to town as a traveling entertainer, a magician. She acted pompous, arrogant and narcissistic, yes, but you know what? So does Rainbow Dash. And she has been that way for the past six seasons. Yet, she was one of the ponies that was rubbed the wrong way about Trixie's attitude, going as far to call her a "loudmouth"; kind of the pot calling the kettle black there. And speaking of that; if I'm recalling correctly, Applejack, Rarity, Rainbow Dash and Spike were the only ones that took "offense" to the way Trixie presented herself. Everypony else in the crowd were happy to watch her show without getting all huffy about her attitude, so what was their problem? And I suppose her "being a reformed bad guy" spawns from her using the Alicorn Amulet to enslave all of Ponyville. There's no excusing that, but think about Ponyville as a place for a second; the town probably faces some imminent threat about every week, what with being so close to the Everfree Forest plus housing the Elements of Harmony and all. One pony taking over the town for, like, a day is probably the bare minimum in bad things that have happened. Not trying to excuse her actions or anything, just trying to put things into perspective.

Now her motivation for doing things is that, thanks to two certain foals, her means of making a living were destroyed, she was essentially homeless and her reputation was in shambles. She even speaks about how after Ponyville, she was shunned and humiliated just about everywhere she went; being forced to work on Pinkie's family's rock farm just to make a few bits at that, too!

Yet, everypony acts like it's what she got for being who she was. As the Elements of Harmony, you know the very virtues that Equestria prides itself on, you'd think the Mane Six would be a little more compassionate to their tale of woe. This was, no doubt, because of how she treated the three ponies that were heckling her at her own show. But she's a performer; when there is a heckler in the crowd, that certain individual opens themselves up to whatever ridicule is thrown their way. If they can't enjoy the show, they should've just left instead of instigating a competition with Trixie. Nopony was holding them hostage with a gun to their heads. But the Mane Six were unable to fully comprehend just how much they hurt her and her livelihood. Why?!

And even still! Trixie hadn't officially earned true forgiveness, even after this. In "No Second Prances", Twilight is obviously against Starlight becoming friends with Trixie. So much so that she tries to impede their friendship; The Princess of Friendship tried to stop a friendship from taking form. Bit of a oxymoron when you think about it, huh? And you know what really ticks me off about all of this? Despite being the one's to instigate the entire situation at the show, the Mane Six actually believed that Trixie was the only one in the wrong. They just so happen to leave out of the entire equation that three of them were the ones that started the whole mess. Yeah, that's real fair.

What I wouldn't do to see a fic where Trixie just tells them off. Or has Princess Celestia do it for her or something. I think the princess wouldn't be happy that her student and friends managed to force a pony to become destitute and homeless just because they didn't like how she presented herself...

5931340 Yeah. If you think about it, Trixie is actually one of the few antagonists who you can feel sympathy for. Though I have to add in that I kinda think that everything that happened as soon as she walked into that shop is on her though. Of all those that Trixie does have legitimate grievance with, Twilight certainly doesn't deserve any of it, and yet she was the one who got most of it.

I can kinda see why Twilight was against a friendship with her on that, since she was a victim of Trixie without really doing anything to deserve it, and that's not the kind of person you wanna see your friends hanging out with.

5931340

Here’s the problem; Trixie stopped being performer and started being a BULLY.

There are two types of braggers, those who talk the talk and those who walk the walk. AJ, RD, Rarity & Twi can at least walk, and while Trixie being all talk is technically part of her job, she took it too far at several points.

When confronted on her supposed "greatness"Trixie defended herself against Rainbow’s heckling was telling her lie about the Ursa Major, then started calling ponies on stage to humiliate when her audience, ”her entire audience”, didn’t give her a standing ovation after she claimed to be the "best in Ponyville", with only Snips and Snails praising her.

Yes, they could’ve just walked away… wait, scratch that since Trixie knowingly goaded them onto the challenge, heck she issued the challenge and tried to pick Twilight out of the crowd by technically harassing her first of an attempt to pressure her onstage, and then Applejack stepped up instead.

Trixie said "anything you can do I can do better" she was expected to do just that, but she didn’t:

1. She challenged ponies to show off their talents
2. Didn’t actually attempt to out-do them in anything they do, but instead, attempt to publicly humiliate them.

AJ shows off roping prowess and ropes apple.
Trixie ties her up, stuffs apple in mouth.
Not doing AJ’s trick better

Dash shows off flying, creating a rainbow.
Trixie attacks her with the rainbow.
Again, not actually doing it better

Rarity clothes herself.
Trixie turns her mane into a sewer rat’s nest.

Once again, that’s not actually doing it better. If she really wanted to turn their own talents against then she’d:

Lasso more apples than AJ.

Actually use RD’s rainbow and have it mimic her stunts while adding a little flair to them via fireworks or something.

Simply use a spell on her own cape to give it more flair or simply made her dress prettier than it already was.

But instead she just cheated by embarrassing them off the stage and back out of her own challenge.

While I understand the whole "traveler spreading tall tales" thing being part of her act, she loses sympathy points because of her "anything you can do I can do better" challenge. Not mention that they called her out since she gloating about something she didn’t do, plus she didn’t really do anything that spectacular aside from basic magic, which really isn’t a big deal in a world where it’s a part of everyday life, it’s not like she was pulling off Starlight Glimmer level spells or anything.

Let’s compare Trixie’s boasting with RD’s, since they’re both have big egos:

The difference is that when RD brags she’ll immediately BACK UP her boasting and actually do what she claims she can do. Yes, RD can be a loudmouth bragger, but if she brags about something, she brags within her own talent range. Trixie however brags outside of it and never owns up to it. Trixie said "anything you can do I can do better", so she was expected to do just that, but she didn’t.

RD can actually back up her boasts on the spot, and she doesn’t issue any challenges as she knows she’s not capable of owning up to. Sure she’s a bragger, but she’s a bragger that can actually act on any of her boasts. Trixie does not do that, and Rainbow isn’t stupid enough to simply take credit for something she didn’t do. Bragging outside of your skill range will only get you so far until you’re backed into a corner and forced to actually act on those claims, Trixie couldn’t act on them so she cheated her way out and instead just attacked them directly.

Bottom Line: When you boast, it’s better to boast about things you can actually accomplish, and when you challenge someone, you don’t back out of it by embarrassing said challenger, that doesn’t make you better it just makes you look like a pathetic, cowardly, cheater. Trixie’s actions were uncalled for, she simply cheated and attacked her hecklers instead of owning up to her own challenge. If she can’t do that then she’s technically more in the wrong than the Mane three. I’m not saying Trixie deserved to get her home and rep destroyed, but she did need a nice big slice of humble pie herself.

And even still! Trixie hadn't officially earned true forgiveness, even after this. In "No Second Prances", Twilight is obviously against Starlight becoming friends with Trixie. So much so that she tries to impede their friendship; The Princess of Friendship tried to stop a friendship from taking form. Bit of a oxymoron when you think about it, huh?

That was technically Trixie's own damn fault. While Twilight was a little too controlling at certain points, she kind of had a right to be suspicious since Trixie didn't exactly do herself any favors by repeatedly acting smug around her to the point where she was afraid that Starlight might relapse due to hurt bad influence. Not to mention the fact that this was after Magic Dual and Twilight hadn't seen Trixie since then.

And let's not forget the fact that she openly admited that she was using Starlight to one-up Twilight, and it was only after she ran off crying that she realized how much of a jerk she was being.

Now granted when she first met Starlight she seemed more than sincere about making friends, however she immediatly drop-kicked that motive into the garbage and started acting smug and arrogant the moment she saw Twilight again, that kind of shoots down that argument and puts Twilight in the right to be suspicious, especially when it looked like she hasn't​ really changed that much.




For Gods sake, she wasn't even trying to be subtle about it! If she showed the same amount of humbleness towards Twilight that she did during the end of Magic Duel might have been inclined to agree with you, but she was acting like this the entire time, so Twilight was kind of in the right.

Yes, Twilight shouldn't have tried to force different kinds of friends upon Starlight since that only made her look more paranoid, but Trixie should have already known that acting the way she did would shoot down any redemption points she had with Twi, and she was already on thin ice as it is.

So bottom line, Trixie is in no way a saint, nor is she some innocent soul that did nothing wrong.

5931347

Let's be real here, calling out ponies for a contest then physically assaulting them when she can’t win doesn't win her any sympathy points.

Rainbow Dash simply asked what made her so "great and powerful", and Trixie issued the challenge and tried to pick Twilight out of the crowd first in an attempt to pressure her onstage, and then Applejack stepped up instead.

Now I don’t blame Trixie for the Ursa Minor incident (EVERYONE knows that Snips and Snails were a 100% to blame for that little stunt), but she needed her own serving of humble pie if she couldn’t be bothered to own up to her own challenge.

Plus coming back for revenge after others call you out for lying about said accomplishments isn't perfectly reasonable either.

5931340 I know a lot of people tend to forget something about Boast Busters that is actually a pretty big detail. It'd be one thing to act arrogant and pompous, but Trixie took that act and made it her entire character and it shows in her performance.

"Anything you can do, I can do better."

I'm honestly surprised people tended to notice this not long after the episode first came out, but overlook it today. Trixie demanded volunteers, but couldn't even be bothered to beat them at their own game. Instead of outdoing her volunteer, she would just humiliate them afterward. That is not good sportsmanship. She wasn't doing it to please and entertain the masses. She was doing it to stroke her own ego. All said and done, she was nothing more than an arrogant fraud.

While the Snips & Snails' actions in bringing an Ursa Minor into town was sheer stupidity and Is hesitate to say Trixie deserved having her trailer destroyed, she ultimately paid the price for her long list of humiliations inflicted on volunteers for the sake of her own ego.

5931347 But didn't Starlight do much worse to Twilight. She try to make Twilight live in a world without her friends.

5931340 I remember that with these words, you showed me a new perspective of "Boast Busters" that I had never considered nor seen. While it remains on my Top 15 Worst Episodes list at the bottom, what it really boils down to is Trixie repeating "great and powerful" enough times in the episode so that if I had a dollar for each one, I could buy an iTunes gift card. Snips and Snails don't exactly let up on it either, so it makes my ears bleed. So, did Trixie deserve humiliation and ruination of her career? No. And I think it's a shame that there may be a few users out there, maybe on this site and maybe those who read this thread, that would think otherwise because in the long run and in comparison to what lay ahead in the series, Trixie came off as mostly harmless. It was like her job to upstage others and tell fables. Could she have gone into detail about her defeating an Ursa Major? Yes. Should she have crossed the line into humiliating others? No. But then again, what you see is what you get, so it's possible that the Mane 6 could have just let her bask in her own limelight and she would get what's coming to her in a different way in the long run. I mean, it's technically not her fault Snips and Snails wanted to see Trixie do her magic thing for themselves. That was their own poor judgment. But regardless of Trixie's ego, she did not deserve to lose her job and so her revenge on Twilight would have been earned if she didn't resolve to using the Alicorn Amulet.

And there is one thing she definitely didn't deserve. Not getting a chance to be friends with Starlight Glimmer, when they seemed to have something in common. In spite what Trixie has done, she deserves to try and be a better pony. Starlight does not.

So bottom line, Trixie is in no way a saint, nor is she some innocent soul that did nothing wrong.

So what are you suggesting then? That she deserves to be alone, miserable, and friendless for the rest of her life?

5931340 in boast busters and No second prances Twilight was being normal. I have to agree that Rarity, Rainbow and Applejack are in the wrong in boast Buster. However trixie is wrong in Magic Duel because she was jealous of Twilight and she spelled spike into a ball. Twilight and spike have a brother sistership and since trixie could have hurt spike it is reasonable she had a hard time forgiving trixie. Twilight did have a legitimate reason but she did not tell Starlight why trixie is bad. So it's simple answer. They were all wrong at one point. Of course Twilight could have straightened out her friends. But let's face it she didn't know them too well.

5931377
THIS GUY GETS IT!!!

5931411
As I said, she deserved her own slice of humble pie, she just got it in the wrong way (in my opinion it would have been better if she was exposed to as a frog without having her home destroyed.

And like I said before, she went out of her way to visibly taunt Twilight when Starlight wasn't looking, if she really wanted to show she'd changed she would have shown the same kind of humility she showed at the end of Magic Duel.

5931406

And Starlight DOES deserve to try and be a better pony, merely because the moment you realize how badly her actions were affecting the future of Equestria she backtracked and eventually tried to change her ways. And she succeeded, as well as saved Equestria from the changelings.

5931432

Actually Rarity, Rainbow and Applejack aren't in the wrong, Trixie goaded then into the challenge and then humiliated them when she was unable to own up to her own challenge.

5931477

And like I said before, she went out of her way to visibly taunt Twilight when Starlight wasn't looking, if she really wanted to show she'd changed she would have shown the same kind of humility she showed at the end of Magic Duel.

Yes, but was this before or after Twilight didn't approve of her?

5931500
Before, Twilight was surprised by her appearance, and she went out of her way act smug around her at practically every different opportunity, that kind of shoots down that argument and puts Twilight in the right to be suspicious, especially when it looked like she hasn't​ really changed that much.




For Gods sake, she wasn't even trying to be subtle about it!

5931539 Funny, that's not what I was told at first. You know, maybe the 'problem' here is that the writers tried too hard to keep Trixie in character. I know she's a favorite of one of the staff members (Jayson Thiessen?) and as such, she was probably written to be reverted back to her Season 1 ways and the writers probably decided that their audiences would not 'recognize' Trixie if she wasn't smug and such. I don't know for sure, but consider that a possibility.

5931543
An unfortunate side-effect of not acknowledging the comics as canon. I liked how Trixie was portrayed in those stories....

5931539 So, how do the events of "To Where and Back Again" where Trixie is still gloating to Twilight every chance she gets, or "All Bottled Up" where she continues to act smug and comments on how Starlight never gets mad at her as if she knows she can manipulate Starlight, play into this? Because I think those potrayals kind of hurt Trixie evenmore. Is it so hard to ask that like Rainbow Dash, they tone down her ego?

5931386 Yeah. Three guesses as to whether I hate Trixie or Starlight more.

5931340

What I wouldn't do to see a fic where Trixie just tells them off. Or has Princess Celestia do it for her or something. I think the princess wouldn't be happy that her student and friends managed to force a pony to become destitute and homeless just because they didn't like how she presented herself...

I dunno. Somebody might ask about who's in charge of disaster relief or why there aren't any homeless shelters. Alternatively, somebody might ask why Trixie didn't have insurance or why it's anybody but Trixie's responsibility to find her a job. It might be better to leave that can of worms shut.

5931638
Starlight doesn't deserve the gate she gets. Everyone likes to whine and moan about her reformation being horribly handled. Yet I don't recall Trixie's reformation being a problem. Hell, hers was done better.

While Trixie showed some remorse for her past actions, she kinda relapsed and threw said remorse out the window once she realized that Starlight was Twilight’s student. It took her running off crying for Trixie to realize what vindictive bitch she was being.

Starlight wasn't AWARE of how drastically the timeline was changed until AFTER Twilight showed her. After which she actually saw how wrong she was and changed her ways.

5931726 Did Starlight really deserve forgiveness though? You wouldn't forgive someone of their crimes just because they one day decided to stop doing them.

Even though Trixie did relapse, did she really go that far that you'd call her a villain?

5931735

Let's see:

Seeks out an Amulet that corrupts the wearer.

Returns to the town and proceeded to bully, attack, and torment the residents with said amulet.

Blames all of her problems on Twilight despite her being the only one who actually went out of her way to save the town.

Banishes her and then enslaves the entire town to do her bidding.

Then when she gets her amulet taken the first thing she does is attempt to make Rainbow Dash writhe in agony.

And the only thing she does is say I'm sorry and then flee.

I say that all adds up to a big fat YES.

Also I don't see anyone throwing a hissy fit about Discord getting reformed. And he was actually worse than the both of them.

5931744 That was BEFORE she relapsed in the latest episode.

5931750
In that case not really, but since she's showing up at a town she once terrorized, naturally the public would be wary about her.

5931477 rarity, Rainbow and Applejack are in the wrong. If they didn't heckled trixie no challenge would have happened. But trixie is wrong too. A performer should not react to heckling at all.

5931550 You never said anything about the comics. You pointed out it was all in the episode. Besides, I don't think the comics were intended to be canon.

5931744

Also I don't see anyone throwing a hissy fit about Discord getting reformed. And he was actually worse than the both of them.

Uh, the Mane 6 did! Excluding Fluttershy, the Mane 6 continued to dislike Discord up until... I actually don't know when. I heard even in Season 5 he was still given angry looks.

5931805
Actually it would've, the only actual heckling she reacted to was RD saying boo, and even then all she did was tell a tall tale about the Ursa, then when no one reacted with applause Trixie went out of her way to try and pressure Twilight onstage. So they stepped up in her place and Trixie goaded them into the challenge.

Trixie is more in the wrong not only because of that, but because she never owned up to any of her boasts, simply going out of her way to humiliate her opponent instead of doing what they did better like she proposed.

5931817

I meant fandom-wise. Not to mention that unlike other cases that actually show remorse for their actions, he immediately goes back to acting like a fool to everyone who's not Fluttershy and his next appearance.

5931852 I don't think it's that simple but RD didn't just boo trixie. She even said trixie had poor magic. And put twilight on the spotlight which started the whole episode plot! But I think the girls did deserve to get humiliated like that because trixie was just doing what her tanlet is. Preforming which does require bragging about stuff even if it is a lie. But I think if twilight had just told them nothing would have happened at all. Rainbow is the one that's at fault here and she should know the dos and don'ts of preforming.

5931921
You should try re-watching the episode before making false assumptions and pinning the the blame on someone who doesn't deserve it.

Just watched it myself and RD simply asked what made her great and powerful, Spike’s the one who pointed out that Twilight is better, and even then Trixie just ignored her until she decided to goad ponies onto the stage, singling out Twilight first, then AJ stepped up in her place.

AJ, RD, and Rarity didn't deserve to be humiliated because they owned up to their challenges while Trixie simply attacked them and pretended that counted as doing better than them. Trixie said "anything you can do I can do better", so she was expected to do just that, but she didn’t.

RD can actually back up her boasts on the spot, and she doesn’t issue any challenges as she knows she’s not capable of owning up to. Sure she’s a bragger, but she’s a bragger that can actually act on any of her boasts. Like I said before: bragging outside of your skill range will only get you so far until you’re backed into a corner and forced to actually act on those claims, Trixie couldn’t act on them so she cheated her way out and instead just attacked them directly.

So yeah, Trixie’s still more in the wrong than anyone else.