Who all has a story based on this premise?
I do. READ IT HERE.
Feel free to share whatcha got or crit mine!
I fully accept your hating on my story or the concept in general as long as you provide sound logic and backing of your opinion.

869708
Thank you.

This has little to do with your story, so basically ignore it.

Personally, i am a member of neither the SE or the NLR, but If i was forced to choose it would be the Se because of the "underdog" personalities, lack of simple logic, and how generally obnoxious the NLR is.

Personally, i never understood why Celestia recieves so much hate compared to Luna, being an opressive douchebag older sibbling, because I actually HAVE one of those, and from the way Celestia acts based on evidence of the show, she is NOT one of them.

Otherwise, I believe Luna would definately be the one who would desire to become an empress rather than Celestia, because after all Luna was the one who demanded eternal night, Luna came to ponyville and demanded her subjects to bow and kiss her feet, and Luna was the one who screamed at her subjects, following outdated principles.

Also, a republic is a form of government where absolute power is held by the people, can you give a logical and with evidence based proof from the show why Luna would ever give up her power ?

Lastly, good luck with eternal night BTW, if you've ever worked third shift at a factory, you'll understand how dangerous and hazardous it is to your overall health, physical and mental, by not seeing the sun, based on our bodies not getting enough vitamin D, and the psychological effect of working all night and then sleeping for most of the day wears down your body.
Don't just take my word for it, I live in Detroit, GM workers who work third shift for the majority of their life have draastically smaller life expectancies than the other two shifts.

But to be honest, I just hate the fighting in general, because the NLR is often the ones who bring it up like sore losers.

869687
I'm going to be honest I'm not going to read it, I don't like the NLR/SE crap. But since talk with you I know that you are not a true believer so I won't vote it down on general principles.

*shakes head* What I want to see is a fic that has the NLR/SE thing but Celestia and Luna are not part of the groups and don't like them one bit...

As for my take on it... well I take a shot as the NLR by making NMM's faction in the War of Eternal Night named the Lunar Republic.

869716
You forgot the other issues with Eternal Night, no light means no plants, no plants means no food. No sun means no warmth, so Eternal Night means Eternal Winters.

Also: Defense of Celestia the last point goes into the tyrant thing but the whole thing is a excelletn defense.

869748well, i remember there was a really funny fic called "Luna verses the New Lunar Republic" where the NLR occupies the castle, and Luna adresses them in a completely confused manner, scolding them as they attack her sister, and... I wont spoil it.

869753
Linky link?

869761
Luna v. NLR
Granted it could have been done better but it does get its point across

869708 the idea behind the New Lunar Republic is that Luna was never Evil. and that Celestia ls a totalitarian communistic dictator. 869748 In FIM Sol is moved by magic and the Earth is still. Why would sol act as the sun does? Could the moon not be enchanted to emit solar radiation's magical equivalant? See->http://www.fimfiction.net/story/3669/after-that-fateful-night

869781
Dude that is a flimsy argument. Magic is not sun light, it is not the warmth of the sun. If the sun doesn't rise then the world will die.

869708 Who says the governmental progression of Equestria followed a similar model to ours?
What if in old times the government was originally MORE democratic and is now less so?

869790 then what is a sonic rainboom? The physics of FIM cannon os flimsy in several areas. On the other hand, in the Luna was never evil Celestia is a dictator version Luna might not want eternal night.
(To further my FIM science is flimsy argument)
Does ponyville use enough electricity to need a hydroelectric dam? What is levitation? If cloud walking is a Internal pegasus power, then why do inanimate solid objects not fall through them? Or do they have that magic too? Or does pegasi rub off on inanimate objects? How on Earth does Flim/Flam's apple cider squuezy 9000 tell which apples are bad? Or use the whole apple?

869781
You misunderstand the concept of communism, apparantly. True communism is not a bad thing, but dictators like Stalin who warped communism to suit their need for control are. at that point, it's totalitarianism, not Communism.
I'll be honest, TotR Luna is more after a true communistic society than a democracy. I haven't delved too deeply into the political side of the conflict, but I will later.
And I have absolutely no idea where you were trying to go with that sun/sol thing...

869800
The world will still freeze due to lack of heat.

So then NMM's Evil Monologue in the premier about The Night Lasting Forever was just for show?

869800 I can't even understand that post due to grammatical errors, so I'm going to ignore it.

869781

the idea behind the New Lunar Republic is that Luna was never Evil. and that Celestia ls a totalitarian communistic dictator.

And where, exactly, is the basis for this idea in canon?

869748>>869806
If I could hug you, I would.

NLR v. SE is just some dumb excuse to try and make the Fallout-verse work in Equestria. It makes both Celestia and Luna look stupid by not understanding the way the sun and moon work.

869922 Based on your own argument, there is no proof that she couldn't become one, either.
You're deriving all this from a kid's show, remember. everyone here is treading on very shaky ground.

869961
...
Okay, now I want to write that story.
I think there's a crisis of miscommunication here.

My point is (I believe) that in the vanilla cannon interpretation of the show, quite literally EVERYTHING is a perfect utopian society. so I'm basically saying everything either of us is going to throw at the other is either totally or largely comprised of our own head cannon.
That said.

I'm of the opinion of this- (And this is basically the entire premise behind my story Trials of the Republic) Celestia has been in complete and total power for a thousand years. Look at dictators like Stalin and Hitler- just the mere taste of such power drove them completely bonkers. (Of course, I'm pretty sure Hitler was a nutcase anyway...) Failing that, plenty of medieval rulers started with good intentions but ended up being corrupt, evil bastards. It doesn't even take ABSOLUTE power to corrupt- look at almost every one of our elected officials.

Anyway, basically it's a case of now that Luna's back Celestia doesn't feel like sharing that comfy seat she's gotten used to. Most of my stories, whether or not I actually post those stories, stress this in varying degrees. In TotR, this has caused her to go completely Hitler-style bat-crap crazy. Of course, I have some other elements hidden in there that really help to push her off the edge that I haven't mentioned yet in the story (It involves changelings, Dark magic, a friend's death, and Twilight Sparkle) But that's the big one.

BUT! and this is a big but. (he-he-he. big butt. ) These are FICTIONAL characters. In a CHILDREN'S SHOW. So that makes most of any theory regarding the saneness/power hunger/political leanings of ANY character based mostly on the personal interpretations/assumptions/political leanings of the AUTHOR. So pretty much any story based largely off these things is basically a load of crap. Including mine.

869804 I never said that her being a totalitarian communistic dictator made her evil. I just said she was one. The lack of Luna being evil did not make Celestia evil, but trapping Luna on the moon when she complained about being under-appreciated would, as would ruling with a iron hoof.869814 it was typed with a phone while I was in a moving vehicle, sue me.869806 I never said I would join the NLR if it was set around the cannon Celestia and Luna at all! It would be stupid and idiotic to oppose Celestia as she is portrayed in cannon. I said totalitarian communistic dictator. Equestria obviously had a market economy in the cannon.
Celestia IS a Benevolent Despot. a god can't be a monarch or diarch as those rule by the grace of god NOT divine status, (Emperor is still a go though, BUT Equestria is never described as a Empire), her descendants don't inherit the throne (blueblood holds no inherent political power through his birth, only societal status which he uses to influence things. Notice rather then order their execution directly he runs to Celestia to ask her to do it.), Monarchies also raise heirs and replacements (Twilicorn might count, but not cannon yet). She lacks all the traits of a monarchical ruler, that would make her a monarchical ruler (dictators can call themself El Presidente all they want, they still don't actually run a republic). It is not a theocracy either, as law and society do not resolve around Celestia and Luna's worship. (think laws against sins, and societal control in part)

My argument is based off of only what the show depicts. Any headcannon you hold based on feeling or supposition, while valid, doesn't contradict what I have said. If you feel there is something I have missed in the show that contradicts me and isn't based on feeling, feel free to point it out.

I do not support NMM cannon, or oppose Celestia Cannon. I do support a Republican (as in republican vs parliamentary, republican. not a democrat vs republican, republican) Constitutional Diarchy, Vs. a Absolute Diarchy.

I always view NLR in a AU setting.

870000 Here we are! Intelligence! I CAN READ IT!
I'll just do that... (Starts looking for a lawyer)

This is really the first irrefutable argument I've seen thus far. good work.

870000>>869961

869806 The moon would be in a eternal lunar eclipse... and there would be no low and high tide... IF Luna and Celestia moved the sun and moon around the planet in perfect time (or nearly). The reason those things happen is because of the moons orbit not being perfectly alligned with the Earth's orbit around the sun, and the Earth's elliptical orbit around the sun. The seasons have to be changed on purpose and don't change unless they want them to (as in spring doesn't come early). Which implies a lack of axial tilt in the planet's rotation. What makes you think that Sol is actually a giant burning ball of gas in FIM and not just magical?

870008 Sue apple, it's damn near impossible to type out my stories and comments with my I phone.

869996

quite literally EVERYTHING is a perfect utopian society

Uh, no. So much no.

Lemme list off some stuff that makes this clearly not utopian
- Nightmare Moon
- Parasprite infestation
- Zecora's supposedly an evil enchantress
- A dragon snores and nearly wipes out Ponyville with his excessive smoke
- Buffalo/Appleoosa conflict
- Discord
- Changeling invasion
- Sombra

So, yeah, definitely a utopia

870033
Because nothing in FiM said that the Sun isn't a flaming ball of incandescent gas.

869806 ALSO, The distance of the planet to the sun does not effect seasons on a annual basis. The Northern hemisphere has summer when the Earth is usually farther from the sun (which is why the southern hemisphere is hotter overall, but not that different based on total change). So even if the sun HAD a elliptical orbit around the world, the planet would STILL have no seasons. (just about).

870047 AH-HA! there's that word. POTENTIAL. Everything has the POTENTIAL to go down the toilet- if the chain gets pulled hard enough.
And that's really the entire premise behind this concept. Somebody gets pushed off the edge and the shit hits the fan (If you'll excuse my French.)

870047>>870049
Yes, I am in the logical flaw of Hasty Generalization there. You caught me.
Damn those meddling kids and their pesky dog!
And Mr. Hood, you are correct. Not everyone is corrupted. but I can give you an entire ORGANIZATION that was guilty of corruption by power at that time- the Catholic Church, the guys who not only opposed Saladin, but also were the ones who put Richard in power.

870063 if we go with "nothing in FIM says it isn't" then we are leaving the realm of "show cannon" backed fact, and now marching off into the "Headcannon" land of supposition. Which, as I've said before, is perfectly valid, but doesn't make me wrong.

(I can use emoticons and still be scientific and factual BTW)

870098
You keep talking about these cannons. Can I have some?

870071
*holds up hand* Alright stop right there, this has gone too far. I know that in distance from the Sun has a negligible effect on the seasons but my point still stands; no sun means no heat, no heat the world freezes.

870063

Considering the actual orbit of the Sun. If the Sun never rose over Equestria, and granted Equestria eternal night, couldn't everyone just exodus to the other side of the planet and experience eternal day?

Or just sit on the Twilight Line, the strip of land that experiences eternal evening.

As for the whole NLR vs. SE shtick... well, honestly. Celestia is a monarch who has freely lead the entire country for a thousand years down a road of peace.

Throughout the show, there has never been mention of any kind of threat beyond Nightmare Moon and Discord; no wars, no massive strings of poverty, nothing. There's no evidence to suggest that Equestria could split itself in civil war.

And granted that, just which side would the entire country pick, anyway? They'd likely all side with Celestia. Why? Because she is the sovereign that granted them such a long peacetime.

Because of her, Equestria exists in a state of bliss. No utopia, sure, but it's certainly a fuck of a lot better than what we could expect here on Earth.

You have to consider why Equestria would descend into civil war, and support the Sister that wanted to destroy Equestria, just because she wasn't as loved as her sister. Think about it. Barely even a question of politics here, just logic.

I've never read any NLR vs. SE fics, though, so feel free to ignore me. But there's nothing to suggest that the two sides would even rise up. It'd just be Luna against Equestria, maybe a few traitors joining her side for whatever reason.

870103 aye you can, we have head-cannons, show-cannon (singular but open to interpretation on some level), bass-cannons, feel-cannons, and party cannons. Which would you like?

870112
Eternal day would be just as bad, the world would fry.

870120
The sort that knocks down castle walls.

And what, pray tell, is a show-cannon? Does it fire shows instead of cannon balls?
It's canon, not cannon.

870103
870105 You misunderstand me, good sir! I don't mean to convince you that my point of view is right, merely explain the path of logic that led me to mine!

The fact is, we don't have nearly enough cannon information on the princesses to come to a three dimensional character analysis. so in the end, neither of us will be able to convince the other logically that we are right, as the point we are debating is completely made of a "What if" surmise. we could go on forever.

Yes, I see your point.

So now I challenge you to explain to me how Luna could become a tyrant.

870105

Are you taking a university course on history and politics? These messages are coming across like something I'd read in a text book.

Very informative, I must admit.

870121

Granted point, but there should be an equatorial line that's inhabitable... hmmm.

Another thing that I just find asinine about the NLR is whenever theres a picture of a batpony and Luna or anything related to combat, they always say that "The reports show that the Solar Empire troops have become weak after 1000 years of no combat, they are weak and lazy, perfect to strike!"

To all I have to say is ...1000 years.... REally? a WHOLE mellenium... of NO conflict? at all? when in human history in the 1000 years we have had less than 300 years of true peace?
Jesus, we better find theese ponies and find out how they do it, cuz human fucking suck!

and regardless, another beef i have is that after 1000 years modern technology hasen't evolved... at all? when in the bible the first sibblings murdered his brother? and if your like me and dont believe in religion that cave men havent been killing each other ever since they crawled out of the ocean?
and plus, i still doubt that Luna would give up absolute power. Maybe Celestia could be an empress, but I havent seen any signs of starving ponies, or large execution squads, or opressive control.

Its just so STUPID!

Plus, i don't know who said it, but Communism will never work, simply because People are in it. But not because of the execution, or secret agendas, or coups, the reason why communism, marxism, and lenninism fails is because it SOUNDS good, but fails miserably because they beat down the life giving force of their country. Not the Amry, or the People, the Economy.
In a communist state, businesses are not allowed to compete or given incentives to grow, they are mandated on exactly what to do and then they fial miserably. My Macro teacher was originally from Bulgaria, an Soviet Bloc state, he grew up in that shit, he can personally tell us why it is so terrible.

In short, Communism and Socialism only works on paper.

870147

Old standards, old practices, and all the ponies still sticking up for her sister, despite everything she's done. Tell me things wouldn't've gone down the shitter if her sister didn't forgive her, or if the Elements failed in their given mission.

870110 Nothing in the show says it IS a bright burning ball of gas that heats the planet. "Nothing in the show says it ISN'T" a indescribable magical... thing, that we only PERCIEVE as a round hot burning object. Nothing in the show says there ISN'T or IS axial tilt and even elliptical orbits. If the show doesn't say it is or it isn't something (or provide substantial evidence it one way or the other) ANYTHING could be going on. Magic COULD be the Force with Unicorn horns having super high amounts of midichlorians in them. Equestria COULD be a magical afterlife similar to heaven, and tartarus COULD be the actual plane of exsistance.
I will not argue based on "COULD"s, or "they didn't say it is or isn't"s, and I wish you would avoid such arguments as well.

870166

So, by that, Nightmare Moon would've turned Heaven into Hell.

But given your request of 'is or isn't', which is basically the core of this entire argument...

Is Celestia a tyrant? Thus far, no.

870147
How Luna became a Tyrant... she became insanely jealous for ponies didn't enjoy her night (ignoring that ponies are a dineral species), she then forced her will upon the populace by imposing her will, her night, onto Equestria after usurping Celestia's control of the nation.

870121 How do we know the planet is round? There is no evidence that I have noticed that says or implies (with great force) that Equestria is on a "spherical world" at all. The fact that they say Celestia "raises and lowers" the sun and Luna "raises and lowers" the moon doesn't confirm or deny the idea that the Sun and Moon actually ORBIT the planet at all! It only implies that planet is at the center of the whole shebang (please don't make me explain why my fingers hurt)

870180 "Thus far" doesn't apply at all. I view NLR content as AU (as I've said before).

870194

Should follow you around, learn a bit about history.

870190

Basically what I said. But apparently, what we want here is solid, irrefutable evidence.

So the whole NLR vs. SE argument is bumpkiss from the start.

As for the argument about the Sun and Moon, we are not going to consider them anything less than celestial bodies, as it provides a link to our universe. Without that, we have a world that disrupts the logic of the universe, even with logic.

They use terms such as Orion, Ursa Major/Minor, Canis Minor. THESE ARE EARTHEN CONSTELLATIONS! Please, God, don't start arguing that the Sun is anything less than a giant ball of flaming gas guided through space by Celestia. You're only creating more questions that you'll have to answer.

870163 I fully agree! It IS stupid to take the present setting of Equestria and assume it was always so!

And a pure market economy is just as set to fail as a communistic one! A free reign economy (see "The Jungle") populated by self centered STUPID people, will always have abusive capitalist at the top (abusive to the poor), and abusive poor at the bottom (abusive to each other). The U.S. economy is by no means a "Pure Market" economy, for the same reason Cuba and China are not "Pure Communist" economies. no ABSOLUTE theory or idea can run a successful economy or nation.

869881 AND AGAIN! as I've said before I view NLR as AU! As such my headcannon source for it is the artwork (style and words). The SE posters imply that through style, which is a obvious parallel of Soviet era Russian propaganda. Also it's kind of hard to view the words "OBEY" as happy and benign.

870213
Yeah, I mentioned this entire thing is a pile of ....
But doesn't mean we don't all have our opinions on this stuff.

870194 Pretty much. The whole argument, either way, is a load of head cannon and bull. So- like I mentioned before, neither of us is going to win.
But another point I'd like to make- any argument for modern Luna loosing it could be used as an argument for Celestia loosing it. Let's just leave the conjecture alone and discuss stories on this sort of topic we enjoy.

870190 Modern Luna, my good man.(or woman)
Old times Luna just proves that Alicorns have a tendency to turn homicidal and generally nutty when put under emotional stress. Who could say Celestia wouldn't pull a similar stunt if put under similar stress?.

870322
You asked how she would became a tyrant and we answered. If her actions in "Luna Eclipsed" is anything to go by then Luna still has a mindset that would only work 1000 years aog.

870336>>870345
eeyup.
Now, Luna loosing it is actually cannon. But Luna learned the flaws in her mindset in that same episode you referenced.

my good man.(or woman)

That was directed at Paladin, good sir.

And let's steer away from that radical feminist stuff. We don't want to offend anyone.