Where in time is Sunset Shimmer? · 4:33am Mar 12th, 2022
If you're getting this blog post because you're following the story, you'll be happy to know that chapter 2 is finally out, and can be read here: Hyperlink. In fact, I recommend you do so before reading this blog post.
So, something that I have pondered a lot is what the time line actually is for Sunset as a character. Disregarding the fact that I'm writing a time travel story here, I'm referring to canon. It might seem straightforward to some, but the more I started thinking about Sunset's past, the less it all makes sense. So if you don't mind long musings on canon, then this blog is for you!
First of all, I'd like to note that I'm not putting in the comic for consideration. I know there is a story in there which has backstory for Sunset, but I have not read it, I only know vague details about it. The reasoning why is simple: FiM and EQG should be able to stand on their own here... yet they kinda don't. There is also a funny tangent here: Sunset Shimmer couldn't be considered a canon character if the only work you're concerned with is FiM. That might sound weird, but Sunset does not make any meaningful appearance in FiM, so if you only watched that show you'd not know she existed. The reverse is not true, plenty of FiM elements and characters (quite literally even in the first movie's case) show up in EQG. This is mostly just something I find quite funny, so I figured I'd mention it.
Anyways, to get into it, here are the facts we know about Sunset or related to Sunset: (to the best of my memory)
1. She was Celestia's student before Twilight. (As stated by Celestia)
2. She at some point left Equestria behind through the mirror portal.
3. The mirror opens every 30th moon, ergo, once every two and a half years.
4. Twilight did not have her cutiemark when Cadence foalsat her. (As seen in the wedding flashback)
Now this all probably seems sensical to you. (why is sensical not a word when nonsensical is a word anyway?)
That last point might seem weird, but we'll get back to that. Now, the facts of these statements leaves us with several options for what the possible time line is. And as I explore them you might also come to agree with me when I say that I think this all is a huge mess:
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Option 1: Sunset left Equestria two and a half years before the events of EQG.
Sunset seemed to have had a few years to establish herself in the human world and become the top asshat of the school. So in that sense this isn't too weird. But if we also assume that she would have had to figure out a place to live as well as potentially come up with public records to enrol, it does seem slightly sketchy. But I think those things could be hand-waved, maybe she was just that bad ass resourceful and solved the things quickly.
No, where this time table for events falls apart is on the Equestria side of things. If Sunset indeed was a former student of Celestia, a mere two and a half year gap is too small. Twilight was just a young filly when she first took the entrance exam and then become a student under Celestia. The only way for these two things to add up would be if the two were both students under Celestia at the same time for many years. But if so it really feels like the two should have already known about each other. Sure, Twilight was a huge shut in that didn't pay attention to other ponies when she was a filly, but given who Sunset was as a person, Twilight likely would not have much choice but too put up with her.
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Options 2: Sunset left Equestria five years before the events of EQG.
This seems like the most sane option when it comes to the human world side of the equation. This give Sunset plenty of time to figure out the new world and get settled before joining canterlot high and building up her reputation. Crucially, this also gives her another portal opening between her coming to the world and the one shown in the movie. This leaves space for a potential "recon" trip to figure out that she has been replaced by Twilight and/or learn more about the elements of harmony.
I do, however, still pose that I don't think this makes sense on the Equestria side of the equation. It's really hard to judge the passage of time for a show/series like this, but if we consider other characters like the CMC and how much they seem to grow/age over the course of all 9 seasons... then I would argue that there was a longer time span than five years between Twilight becoming Celestia's student and the events of EQG. And that's also assuming that Celestia took on a new student nearly directly after her previous one decided to sod off.
If there was only five years between Sunset leaving and EQG then I still think the two of them would have had to both be students under Celestia at the same time. Except, if so Twilight should already to some extent know who Sunset is, and likewise the other way around. Yet they clearly didn't.
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Option 3: Sunset left Equestria seven and a half years before the events of EQG:
Now we are getting to the point where the human world part of the equation starts falling apart. Sunset would likely have had to spent quite a few years in the world before joining canterlot high: Otherwise she would already have graduated. So the question is what she was doing in the human world all that time, not to mention, an even bigger issue: With this large of a time between Sunset leaving and the events of EQG... she would have grown quite old. Which brings to question either two scenarios:
1. She is actually way older than the other students in the school.
2. She was nothing but a child when she came through the portal.
Both have really awkward implications.
At least the time span makes more sense on the Equestrian side now. Given the time for Twilight to grow up from a filly to a mare, the age difference between her and Sunset makes the most sense in my mind as somewhere between 6 to 10 years. Which fits into this model. It would explain why they had never meet nor knew of each other prior to the events of the movie.
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Option 4: Sunset left Equestira 10 years before the events of EQG.
I'm gonna be honest, this scenario is basically just Option 3, but on crack. The same issues in the human world, but more extreme. Otherwise the perspective in Equestria that Sunset had left 10 years prior to the movie tracks.
So what was the point of all that crap? Well... It's to highlight that this stuff is nonsensical. Obviously it can be resolved, in fact I have read plenty of fics by various authors that tackle this issue and have come up with their own explanation for events. But I think the intriguing part to me is that they had to decide on a baseline of when Sunset existed in Equestrias past before she left.
Fundamentally, to my story it doesn't matter to much. (It doesn't have the EQG tag, after all). But I still had to make a choice on where in time Sunset's past in Equestria was. It will become clear in the story what decision I made in that regard, if it's not clear already. But I think the interesting part is that, no matter what notion you go for: Sunset would have had to co-live with Cadance in the castle. Cadance was already an Alicorn before Twilight got her cutiemark. She was also still quite young as she had not started her alicorn growth spur yet (similar to Twilight prior to The Last Problem).
It's no wonder so many stories ponder how toxic the relationship between the two of them would have had to have been. Even if the show itself never really explores this or other similar subjects.
But yeah, just some random musings I had in regards to Sunset, don't take it too seriously.
My idea of this is that Equestria and EQG just have different time flow and EQG are slower on that front. But that breaks when we look back at first EQG and 3 day portal closes right at 3 day mark. My only explanation is this: when portal are open - time flow between two world stabilizes and for 3 days they have same "timer". It would explain huge time for portal recharge, but break against how Twilight opened it with basically book and permanently. This whole EQG are just a one big mess, i don't think anyone in Hasbro put too much thought in it.
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Honestly, that's the most common explanation I've seen across most fics
I think a bigger choice is; how fast do ponies age and when they reach majority?
Faust said a really high adult number that makes me cringe; an adult should not act the way the mane six did come season one. They you have the CMC where the animators were just too damn lazy to make them bigger. (Even if we just count the Christmas episodes they should of been as big as while under the effects of the flower)
I go with option one (or two) and just make the mane six as young as they act. Option two is better but I don’t see Sunset learning about the elements from a story book. I just think its a plot hole.
I've always preferred the "time moves faster in the human world than in Equestria" route. It satisfies all time gaps as far as I'm concerned.
So first off I want to say I agree with what ShadowHell said were timeflows at seperate rates in the different dimensions. This would explain characters like Principal Celestia and Vice Principal Luna in relation to there Equestria counterpart.
In the EQG movie we know that Sunset prior to the events of the movie had won the Fall formal crown 3 times making it that at the point of the movie that she had been in that world for at least 4 years (that worlds time).
As for the time in Equestria, yes we know that Cadance started foalsitting Twilight before she got her cutie mark and from the looks of the Mane 6 in the flash back of how they got their cutie marks they look younger or similar in age to the CMC. We also know that when they all got their cutie marks the CMC weren’t born yesterday as in Applejacks flash back Applebloom wasn’t seen with them. This is also further confirmed in another episode where we’re had a flash back to the Apples past and Applejack is now a teenager with her cutie mark and Applebloom is now just a baby.
What this proves is that Sunset has been out of Equestria for longer than the CMC and even Spike have been alive. So this alone shows a difference in the passage in time between the to world. With knowing this it allows you to set these events of this story at any length of time before the events of EQG with mainly focusing on what makes sense time wise for Equestia and writing the other worlds slower time as cross dimensional time dilation.
Now I know ages aren’t mentioned in the series (beside Celestia being over 1000 years old) but if you base the ageing if a pony similar to humans (even if you make them live for longer eg 100-150 years) you could make Sunset about 15 years at this point and make Cadance a little younger at 14. You could have Cadance start foal sitting Twilight shortly and if you make her say 6 this could give you a two year period before in the original timeline Twilight would become Celestia’s student and Spike was born. So from this you could have the events of this story set 12 years before Twilight went to face Nightmare Moon making Twilight 18 when the events first started fitting with the idea of them all being a little childish but still adults when the series starts. This would also offer appropriate ages for the CMC and Spike for in the timeline.
I know this is longer ago than what you were mentioning but I feel that this allows you to have a proper flow of time and develop the character’s in a way that flow more naturally (it also means that their would have been at least 2 years before Twilight was taken as a student after Sunset left making it feel less like Celestia just replaced her straight away.
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Thisnis where instand as well and with Twilight's adjustments to the mirror to cross at any time the times are now synced with eachother. I always but Twilight at about 8 when she gets her cutie mark. Frankly the movie did itself in by making Sunset unknown to Twilight.
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Unlees tbe book modification keeps.it in snyc. That contraption mist do alot
5643345
Mmm, fundamentally I don't really disagree. The notion that time flows differently in the two worlds is one I see coming up often in fan fiction.
I don't really plan on pinning down exact time perspectives in the story itself, the reason for why is that the entire thing is a mess. And fans of the show usually have their own headcanon as to how it all works. That being said, I do find these things interesting to discuss.
Good for me, if both worlds have different notions of time. What I think is how to draw two circles of different sizes and joining both at one point would be the 3 days that are the same. And when twilight makes the machine then it just changes the reference point of the circle to have the same time.
i.imgur.com/4wrpBRl.jpg