About Fimfictions users getting toxic and an experience report about it. · 7:35pm Jan 10th, 2019
Well, lately I had a long conversation with someone who will be leaving Fimfiction more or less. He is one of the bigger players, you know, admin in some huge groups and has a lot of followers and the like. His point was, or better one of the points was, that Fimfiction is becoming more and more poisonous. People don't have respect for each other, or simply being trolls, acting hateful more and more.
I have to add, he was not the first to tell me this, but the first that was so well known and with such a significant influence being involved in so many groups.
I told him that I don't think so, and while there are a lot of people with a tendency to do trolling and also some that are mean by intention, the usual Fimfiction member is more nice.
So he told me about a flame war that was going on in a blog of someone else, so I decided I should have a look at. It was a real huge blog post by a long time member of the community with a lot of followers himself, and the guys who replied to him also mostly had a lot. Also, some of the side staff were posting their opinion there. Point is, it reached many many members of Fimfiction. Maybe most of you have heard of the blog.
Anyway, I joined the conversation, it was about how females feel in our community and that the community maybe feel uncomfortable for them nowadays. It also was about mature themes, sexual harassment, and the like.
Actually, it was my first time being part in a discussion on Fimfiction of that size.
So at first everything was alright, and I told the guy about it. But then something bad happened, another user posted something in the blog, something that people can argue about, but at the same time made it clear that it was an emotional thing for said user.
That is not the bad thing, but when I replied to it, told my opinion, politely, the reaction of some of the fandom was just mean and immature. They insulted me, called me an asshole and all that nice stuff, only because my opinion about the post of said user was not theirs.
They told me to show more compassion, more sensitiveness, but it was a blog to discuss things, it was meant to speak about the stuff. And it took them a while to really say what actually annoyed them about my comments, they preferred to just insult me and rage about it.
To give you context, said user had a bad experience in the past, and while I showed my compassion for the situation itself, I dared to point out that they had made mistakes themselves, that the events could have been prevented if they had acted differently. For background info, said user used it as an excuse that they were raised to not speak up. Something I simply disagree with, and told them it was her responsibility to speak up if they were uncomfortable with the situation.
In short, for days, the conversation went further and further down-hill, with only more insults by them. Their arguments also lowered in quality more and more. I admit a few brought up some good points, we could have spoken about the topic in a civilized manner, but the constant insulting by them was preventing that.
Even someone else pointed out after a while that they don't understand why I was insulted and downvoted so badly while, and here I like to quote:
I may not have agreed with every part of it, but he tried his hardest to share his own perspective, and did so in a respectful way without using ad hominem, curses or inflammatory rhetoric.
To top it off, it seems like English is not his first language, so he's even going an extra step.
Don't know why people think the thumbs down button is the same as saying: I disagree with you.
He's also not scum or vile or insensitive. He seems to me to be very open to discuss: a perfect opportunity for you to change someone's mind.
Keep in mind that was someone I don’t know who joined the conversation.
The discussion went on, and when it was clear that I had a point and the guys were wrong with their insulting, and people started to vote more in my favor, the blog owner blocked me, because he was not okay with my opinion, and maybe because the user was one of his followers, maybe a friend of him. He didn't block the guys who did the insulting or simply showed up all of the sudden to yelled 'Go fuck yourself' at me,( yes they actually did that) but me, only because he wasn't able to bring up better arguments than me and I was not all: Poor female, poor thing, I have compassion because you are a female in a male world.
Oh and I would like to add, the ones who insulted me, demanded I show more compassion… not a single one of them replied to the original comment, showing any compassion or understanding for said user, they simple attacked my opinion instead! They demanded more sensitivity, but in fact, were only there to rage about me.
After blocking me, however, he posted weak arguments to prove his point. I easily could tear them to shreds, something I think he blocked me for before he posted them.
My conclusion is that manners and respect are very rare in the fandom at the moment, judging by how many people took part in the discussion and that no one, except for one person, minded them cursing, insulting, or even the one who said he would like to come over and punch me.
But me having a different opinion was too hard to handle.
On top of that, speaking about sexual harassment in the blog, I was a male who was also part of the problem it seemed. If I was a female, I could bring up my opinion, say the things I said, and people may disagree still but they would have probably been more polite. With me being male, however, I was just an asshole to them because I pointed out options the other user had to protect themselves. I also pointed out even someone who claims to be a victim all the time, can have the responsibility to take the initiative and not play the damsel in distress.
Really, if a female brings up that she is emotionally involved, everyone begins raging at you if you say something about it other than you having the deepest compassion, and that’s all you have to say. Again, I just pointed out there was ways to prevent the bad events, there had been ways out, long before the bad event happen, but instead of listening, most users blindly attacked me, not even trying to argue with me.
It was a blog that also addressed sexuall harassment and it turned out, judging by the comments directed towards me, it is ok if it is against a male.
Well, in the end, I admit that maybe the fandom of Fimfiction has become a bit more hostile lately when one isn’t allowed to tell their opinion on something that is posted in a Fimfiction wide blog post that implies you should discuss things, just because others don’t agree on it or like it.
Edit: I was informed that the blog owner banner the guy who simple asked what's wrong with my comments too. Yep, not capable of tolerate other opinions that guy.
Edit2: There is a new blog by some other authors about the blog I mentioned here and there it is allowed to speak freely and it also explains the issue far more. (Thanks to the guy who showed me it
)
https://www.fimfiction.net/blog/841690/loathsome-rage-a-response-to-mrnumbers-from-the-erotic-writing-community
***
My apologies if this sound like a rant, I admit, I dislike people who block me just because they are losing an argument.
Here a few random quotes I had to deal with, to let you have an insight on the matter:
I have no witticism or points to make. This is not a well thought-out reply or anything. You just sicken me, and I can't go over where you are and physically punch you.
I wish I could.
Go fuck yourself.
***
If the person isn't listening, then politeness isn't helping enable anything positive.
*
Politeness is good because it serves a purpose. That's important and we should all remember that. Both because it will remind us to be polite, and also because it will remind us when politeness serves no purpose and we might be better served by vulgarity.
***
Hey I'm seconding what she said. Go fuck yourself.
***
But then, you keep asking why I didn’t say anything.
So I’ll say it: go fuck yourself, and have a great summer.
(This one by the original poster after she noticed people started to use their brains and question her statement and she is not only the poor female victim anymore. I told her I still had compassion for her about the outcome, don’t get me wrong, but the story she told was not only black and white)
***
That behavior kinda makes you an asshole here, sorry to say.
***
They are saying you're being a stereotypical douchebag, man.
***
Is this just an instinct thing? Guys protecting guys? I've no idea. A woman saying why she did what she did is just an excuse; a man reasoning his behavior is an explanation.
(This one is reverse sexism because she accused me of protecting the guys because I am a guy too when I simply pointed out ‘in doubt for the accused’ and they may be innocent for the previous events)
***
I like to think that you just feel guilty about something you did or didn't do in the past, and so you try to justify it in retrospect; if the guys are right in this case, then they were right back then too, right? Then you didn't do something horrible, you were actually doing the correct thing. Hahaha, how nice.
(See, someone also questioned my past because they don’t like my opinion. A simple opinion! I only asked questions about the OP because I am not stupid, and other people later asked them too!)
***
This all seemed ok to them, but not me having an own opinion.
Well, politics isn’t about policy, it’s about signaling loyalty to your group. The exact same principle holds for forum discussions on sensitive topics. The reason why people are so quick to insult you if you say something going against their side is that they want to have a public demonstration of how much they disagree with you, as a signal that they’re loyal to their own group. The harsher their response to you is, the better the signal. Whether or not you’re civil isn’t really important. I mean, it matters a bit, but the effect is there either way.
If you view conversations through this lense, everything starts making a lot more sense and being more predictable. If you don’t, you’ll just be really surprised why everyone is being so unfriendly all of a sudden, when they’re just fine on other topics (which seems to be exactly how you’re feeling). But it’s really nothing usual that otherwise civil people turn into an angry mob as soon as virtue signaling becomes important. Signaling is everything. Especially in this case. Just take a moment to think about how strong the drive to signal is on this particular issue.
Though I’m not sure why you’re trying to hide which blog it was. You can just link to it. If you think you acted well, then why not shed more light on it?
4994730
I guess you have a point here. Yes, that is how sometimes the mob works. Though I don't expected that to happen in a blog where half of Fimf would be and that was imply you should discuss stuff there.
Well if you like I send you the link per PM, I don't hide my comments or anything, just it is a real mature content blog. You know the fandom went very into that thing and so I don't want to give young people the link.
Edit: The signal was more or less that a female showed an emotional scene to use it accusing people to make her sick by reminding her on it. While I pointed out that she made mistakes herself and she can't put all the blame on the guys for previous events. And I assume that then the blunt :'We must protect a woman, bacause she is a woman' nonsense got into the people.
I figured as much.
This is just about the most persuasive signal you could possibly have, too. People already go nuts when it’s just politics, but when it’s about a female, especially one who might be reading the conversation? That’s like double the reason to worry about appearance, at least.
4994751
I wasn't prepared for that, though, I stood my ground till I got blocked. Anyway I sended you the link as you have requested, feel free to share your opinion either here, or via PM.
Just don't post the link here, I don't want young people to get it.
Anyone else who wants the link can request it via PM of course.
I stumbled across the conflict that inspired your blog post, and I want to say that as an outside observer I think you came across as diminishing the bad experience the woman had (that's terrible, but...), which some people took, wrongly, to think that you were saying what happened wasn't so bad, or that it was her fault.
Secondly, when you related your own experience with unwanted workplace behavior, I am sure you were doing so to illustrate that you could relate to the earlier stuff that wasn't so bad, and to illustrate that it's possible to stop that by speaking up about it. Some of the commenters took that, wrongly, to mean that you were equating your experience to the woman's final very bad experience, or in at least one case they claimed you were saying you had it even worse (clearly false).
I do think your post left you open for some harsh criticism. But harsh criticism of your post and/or your ideas isn't the same thing as the personal attacks you were subjected to. And you're right that the woman who commented about her personal experience shouldn't have expected that no one should question anything she said at all: the comment thread was a debate on issues and she put her comment out in public in that context.
I admire that you kept your cool through that entire time from what I could see, and continued to try to have an actual discussion.
I was told it could come over harshly, after someone finnaly decided to tell me what the guys though was wrong with my comment. I clarified what I ment in a following comment then. My thoughts on the case she had expiried was made of two parts, first my compassion for the outcome and the skype incident, but also that it is my opinion she was responsible for the year before.
So no, I didn't say what happened wasn't bad in the end, but I do say that she could have prevented the circle of bad events long time before. I don't give her the blame for the reaction to the skype incident, but I give her the blame for her bad feeling the year when she never told anyone there she felt miserable.
Clearly I couldn't 100% equaly compare these twoi things, since no one saw me in my underware or so from work, though, what I tried to show with that example was that one have to speak up to make things stop. It doesn't happen by itself.
That was exactly what I tried to make the guys from the original thread understand. It was a blog post which raised a discussion, it had to, though people must expect that they comments will be commented.
Thanks, I wrote about the reason even in the new blog post against the original one. Without civilisated discussion, we would return to the stone age and the guy with the bigger mace would win any conflict.
Though, to be totally honest, some of the comments gave me a good laugh and also my work colleagues. I spoke with them about these and showed them the comments, like the one which told violence is cool as alternative option if you run out of arguments, that was priceless.