Slavery Disclaimer · 4:14am Oct 4th, 2014
(In connection to chapter 17 of Limits of The Horizon)
Fidora’s arguments for slavery began in my mind, after constantly seeing people on the internet nitpicking verses from the Old Testament about slaves and saying; “This proves that the writers of the old testament were primitive men, morally inferior to what we are today ect ect.” This caused me to spend a fair bit of time reading over the complete rules for treating slaves in the Old Testament and thinking about how these would actually play out in real life.
Fidora’s comment about choice of words was not accidentally placed here; and I want to make it very clear that ‘slavery’ defined by the Old Testament is different from the way ‘slavery’ is used today:
Example 1: The leading user of slaves is the sex industry, keeping women/girls held captive in brothels; which would be forbidden by Toranic law.
Example 2: Most of the slaves in the world today are theoretically working to pay off a debt; but are paying so much interest on the debt that they can never be free and so there are families who’ve worked for four generations trying to pay off a loan that began as $10. Charging interest on any debt was also forbidden by Toranic law.
Example 3: Supply and demand will always effect cost, and cost will affect expendability. If you were going to buy a car for $200,000; you're not going to make your purchase without carefully thinking about your options and making sure which Ferrari you want, and when you do buy it, your going to love it, and take care of it. If you spend $20,000 on a car, you might be a bit rough with it, but you're still going to take care of it. I've heard several quotes about the average price of a slave today; and they range from $90 - $300.
I’ll also point out Fidora’s assertion that a man falling into poverty either means he can’t manage money or is lazy/ alcoholic ect, holds far more weight when you consider that everyone in ancient Israel had ancestral land. Combine this with the fact that there was a six year limit to bonded labor (or the nearest year of Jubulee). When this time was over, the owner was meant to, “Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the LORD your God has blessed you. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.” Deuteronomy 15:13
When you keep that in mind, it doesn’t sound so bad for a guy to guy could work for a debtor for six years, get used to steady work, observe good money management, and (if necessary) detox from drugs/alcohol; after which he’d be given enough stuff to start a new business, (on his ancestral land).
To be clear; slavery in Timbucktoo is not directly based off toranic law. Timbucktoo is meant to have been based loosely on ancient Judaic culture under Ferric, but has changed since his disappearance to be more secular/ polytheistic, and also includes features fromother cultures and some things that I simply made up.
Slavery, in the circumstances and with all the rules and limitations of the Old Testament is something I’d endorse.
Slavery as it means today is something that I absolutely hate.
Slavery in The Zaharren is somewhere in between.
Damn, dude. You are sure ballsy saying you would actively endorse a form of slavery. Seriously, on the internet, that's like painting a target on your back.
2505107
Have you read the attached chapter?
I could go deeper into this topic if people are interested; I just figured what I have here + chapter 17 was enough to get conversation rolling.
2505392 Indeed, I have. Why?
2505399
Just making sure you hadn't come in 3/4 of the way through a conversation (so to speak).
Out of curiosity, if you were debating Fidora, what would you say?
2505405 I'm not really a debating kind of person, so I wouldn't really know. A big thing I disagree with is how Fidora basically said if you're poor, it's almost always your own fault. Although I admit that things like that happen, there are several other circumstances that could lead to a person becoming poor.
2505107
Let's say you lived in some ancient kingdom, and the king said that after the planting season, you and all the other young men in your town were drafted into working on the king's highway for three months. You wouldn't be paid for your work and anyone who tried to run would be hunted down and imprisoned.
Are you a slave?
Let's say you live in 21st century America and the government decides to tax 25% of your income and uses that money to build a highway. You're taxes may be audited, and you could be imprisoned if found guilty of tax fraud.
Are you a slave?
Both of them mean you work for three months without pay under threat of imprisonment, so the government can have a road.
I toy with a lot of controversial issues; but often I'm less interested in the behavior as the words that caused it; as
language is the key to thought, and thought the reason for our actions.
2814424 An oddly late reply, but okay.
As for whether or not you're a slave in these situations, no, you're not a slave. A slave is defined as a person being treated as property, that can be bought and sold on a whim and at any time. First of all, you're not property in these situations, nor can you be bought or sold. Second of all, on both of these occasions, the person in question is legally obligated to follow what has been ordered of them.
In the first one, you've been drafted by your king. This one is a bit sketchy, but ultimately, he's your leader and you have to follow the draft. If you don't, you go to prison, and will probably be forced to work anyway.
The second one is much more clear cut. It taxes, you have to pay your taxes. If you try to commit tax fraud and get caught and jailed, tough shit. It's your own damn fault for trying to get out of it.