Demon Lord Rias Lucifer? · 6:00pm Aug 26th, 2014
I was just reflecting on the Extra Chapter of Ponyville DxD, and the question came up in my mind whether or not Rias is actually a princess. She's called the Crimson-haired Ruin Princess, but that's more of a title. Still she is the heir to House Gremory, since her older brother Sirzechs gave up his claim in order to become Demon Lord. In Japanese the word hime-sama can sometimes be used to refer to a high-status young lady, even if she's not technically a princess.
But it raises an interesting question. If Sirzechs died or otherwise retired, would Rias have a claim to become ruler of the Underworld? Now Sirzechs does have a son, Milicas, but he's just a young boy. So he'd be the direct lineage, but would probably need a guardian. In that regard Rias, as his aunt, would be the logical choice. He's also considered second in line to inherit House Gremory only after Rias. So considering a strictly family-based succession, Rias is actually the next in line for the throne of the Underworld!
Now of course you could argue that Sirzechs himself rose to power by means of, well, power. He was the strongest of a faction of devils that desired peace and an end to the Great War. Old Lucifer actually had a son, (revealed in the later light novels), who never succeeded him. Although from what I understand, back then he didn't have any desire to do so anyway.
There are three other Demon Lords, Serafall Leviathan (from the Sitri Clan), Ajuka Beelzebub (of the Astaroth clan), and Falbium Asmodeus (of the Glasya-Labolas clan). Ajuka Beelzebub, who has been called the second most powerful devil of this generation, would be a logical choice. But from what we've seen of his character, he's actually very much like Azazel in that he wants to be left alone to continue his studies. So he might actually not want the position. In order to keep the balance between the houses, the other three might actually want a Gremory heir, and although Rias is not quite as powerful as her brother at this point in time, she does share the same Power of Destruction. Plus she is the master of the Seikiryuutei.
It's certainly possible that other strong devils could make a claim, like the top ten players in the Rating Game. But that would almost certainly be viewed as a coup by the other three. The question then becomes, would Rias even want to become the next Lucifer? It would almost certainly go against her character, and if you've seen at least the first season of the anime, you know why. Rias wants to stand on her own, as a high-class devil and a King in the Rating Game, to be her own person. She resents being forced to do things that devil society demands of her because of tradition, which is the main reason she tried to get out of her engagement to Raiser. Becoming Lucifer would probably mean never being able to get out of her brother's shadow.
But we have also seen that Rias has a strong sense of duty. She'll readily use her peerage to hunt down stray devils, oppose the enemies of the Underworld and protect the peace, even when not explicitly asked to do so. So if there were circumstances where her becoming Lucifer would guarantee the peace and safety of the Underworld, then I do believe she'd do it.
I don't know if the author, Ishibumi, has ever considered the possibility. But I think even having Rias assume the title and responsibilities of Lucifer temporarily, because Sirzechs goes on vacation or something, would be a highly interesting concept. It would both be interesting for Slice of Life comedy as the Gremory Group tries to deal with life at court, and it has the possibility of intrigue, as Sirzechs himself has been struggling with trying to introduce the old devil elite to new ideas.
What are your guys' thoughts on the matter? Do you think it's possible that Rias could become the next Lucifer, or at least sub for her brother for a time? And what kind of ruler do you think she'd make?
The reason the son of the old Lucifer didn't take the title is because he was half-human. Only a pure demon can be Lucifer.
As for the rest of it, I could easily see it happening, though I doubt the Demon Realm would survive an extended reign of Rias Lucifer. After all, that would put a former nun and a former exorcist (or two, depending on where in the light novels you have it happen) in the Demon Court, which would not end well. Not to mention the chaos Issei would cause, given nearly all fully grown demonesses seem to have generous "Oppai"...and, of course, the demonesses themselves seeing Issei's love of Oppai as an easy way to manipulate him to gain power over the throne.
I could see Sirzechs having Rias sub for him for a day just to see what happened, though.
I think that Issei might become the new Lucifer because think about it death, destruction, all the Oppai you can handle plus HE. IS. PART. DRAGON.
who would try to over throw him, he can pour holy water on them or throw a cross at them and that would be that
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2403132
Except that a Lucifer has to be a pure demon. Issei doesn't qualify.
2403297 it is just my thought but who says they have to be full devil?
2403345
In the episode where the King of White Dragon explains his identity in the anime, he states he was disqualified from inheriting his father's title because he was only half-demon.
2403366 oh could not remember that but that was the old devil and what if Issei married Rias who would be Lucifer?
2403376
He'd still just be husband of the Lucifer, if not royal consort...assuming Lucifer's are even allowed to marry.
2403388 fine but if Issei dose become Lucifer
I will still like his Harlem castle
2403366
Correction. Vali is not in fact the son of old Lucifer. It's true that he is the offspring of a human woman and the line of Lucifer. But Vali's father was actually old Lucifer's grandson and a full-blooded devil. That makes Vali his great-grandson.
Spoilers!
Vali's father has been dead for a while. But Vali's grandfather, who is the son of the original Lucifer, is still very much alive and kicking as of Light Novel Volume 18. That's who I was referring to as the son of Lucifer.
Yes, they are. Sirzechs is married and, as I stated, has a son by his wife.
His wife is Grayfia, which isn't really a secret, but I guess the anime hasn't gotten around to stating that yet, so I'm putting this in spoiler tags, just to be safe.
Also old Lucifer had at least one legitimate child, as I've just explained.
2403376
It'd still be Rias, since Issei will still be her Pawn and servant. The precedent is there. Sirzechs' wife is his Queen, but she still has the name of her old house attached to her. Although they're married, she's not being called Lucifer or even Gremory by anyone as far as I know.
If you're asking, whether a woman can hold the title of Lucifer in her own right, I think so. Serafall Leviathan, Souna's older sister, holds the title of one of the four Demon Lords. I don't think she's married, but she's still considered on the same level as Beelzebub and Asmodeus. So I don't see a reason why Rias couldn't hold the title of Lucifer. Her husband would be just that, her husband. Nothing more, nothing less.
2403484
Ah, I did not realize that. The anime didn't get into all those details. It just gave his last name as Lucifer and him claiming how he should have been Lucifer instead of Sirzechs, if not for being half human.
2403534
Although now that I think about it, Vali's words do imply that the title of Lucifer can be inherited, even if his pure-blooded descendants never did so. That actually strengthens the theory that Rias is next in line to become Lucifer, at least until Sirzechs' son comes of age.
Then again from a character standpoint, it's pretty clear that Vali isn't actually interested in ruling the Underworld. He just wants strong enemies to fight. So what he said might have just been lip service, since he was allied with the Old Maou faction of Khaos Brigade and pretty much their poster child at this point. Plus recent developments in the light novel clearly show his resentment towards his grandfather and great-grandfather. They had his father executed for consorting with a human. That makes it even less likely that he was sincere about his supposedly denied birthright back then.
Being just as big of a fan, Naughty, I honestly have to disagree with you here. The reason being, the titles don't really go with lineage and family. The titles more than likely go to the people who are considered the strongest (i.e., power).
And I quote from the wiki: The current Satans are Sirzechs Lucifer (from the Gremory Clan), Serafall Leviathan (from the Sitri Clan), Ajuka Beelzebub (of the Astaroth clan), and Falbium Asmodeus (of the Glasya-Labolas clan), four Devils who were born with insane power, equivalent or superior to the original Four, but do not carry the blood of the original Satans.
For example: Sirzechs and Ajuka got their titles because they're considered to be the only two 'Super Devils' in existence, and being on level of the old gods.
Serafall has proven that she's capable of being strong by the fact that she's been able to put "The Magical Beast King of Earth", Behemoth, into her peerage. Not to mention, Souna said she had the ability to destroy Japan if she wanted to. To be able to destroy Japan... I mean, it's not as big as the US or Russia, but still pretty damn big, and would more than likely destroy all of mankind in the aftermath.
Falbium has proven himself capable by becoming the [insert ground-breaking tactician here] of the Underworld, and also being able to tame the "Blue Holy Bull", Kuyutha. Seriously, that seems to be a thing among the Demon Lords, taming a great magical beast and all...
I would also speculate that the reason why these four have the titles is because they were more than likely a big cause in the fall of the Pro-Satan Faction in the Underworld, as it's been stated that all four of them had been part of the Anti-Satan Faction during the Civil War in the Underworld, and all ascended to Demon Lordship shortly afterwards.
I'm not saying Rias couldn't become Lucifer should the occasion rise, but what I am saying, is that chances are, there's someone more capable than her who would be given the position instead.
2403736
Ah, I was wondering, when you'd join the discussion.
True, but that's just the thing. If you want to put it bluntly, what Sirzechs and the other Four Great Satans did, was a coup d'etat. It wasn't the normal line of succession. They toppled the old government and took those positions, because they had the power to do so.
But there are still a lot of houses that place emphasis on pure blood, and they'd want to see a succession rather than a meritocracy. Anybody who wanted to take the title based on power alone, would have to gain the approval of the other three Demon Lords first. And they might actually favor Sirzechs' sister for that post, since she would undoubtedly continue to advance the goals he set for the new Underworld.
Plus, if you bring up Serafall and Behemoth, Rias has the extraordinary accomplishment of having the Red Dragon Emperor in her peerage. Remember that Ddraig and Albion's power could only be matched by the three factions combined.
We've not seen any other devil that actually has the same level of insane power the Four Great Satans possess. And Rias has already shown her own strength and that of her peerage in the Rating Game as well as real combat situations.
And don't underestimate the public support she'd no doubt have as the master of Oppai Dragon. "Zoom Zoom Iyaan!" The remaining three Demon Lords, as the strongest devils in existence, would have to be the ones to name the new Lucifer. You wouldn't get around them. And as long as none of them claims the title for themselves, they'd certainly consider Rias a strong contender at the very least.
2403797 tl;dr :P
But seriously, a problem we have I suppose is that too many unknowns.
How do the titles get chosen? Do the other titles get a say in it? Or is it chosen by a council now made up of elites?
All we know is that before the coup, it was supposedly done like a monarchy and given to the next in line, or so we think given how the descendants of the original thought the seats belonged to them (except for Vali) and what with Rizevim saying he wasn't interested in the seat. Not only that, but power is needed of course.
With the coup now, does it matter if the person is pure-blooded? I guess another problem with Rias being is that while yes, some elites look at Rias and her peerage in positive light because of their deeds, some may not. Remember, her competing against Raiser and even having Issei, a reincarnated devil, defeat Raiser was more or less a kick in the nuts for the 'pure-blood only' group of devils, if they even exist, and would more than likely look down on her and would probably be against her being ascended to a higher power.
We even have the problem of some families still being around that would have or still support the Pro-Satan faction in some way, and having Rias be the next Lucifer should Sirzechs retire/die would probably be an even bigger kick in the teeth than just Sirzechs taking the title.
I don't know, it's hard to tell.what with so little information.
In that respect, I have some questions for YOU!
Granted, for these questions, we probably already know the answers.
Given the fact that the setting of this series is so obviously based around the varying religions of the world, both old and new, would that mean that such beliefs in religions such as Christianity (or Catholicism in this matter) would believe homosexuality to be wrong? Or polygamy? Or anything else of the sort.
If this is the case, does that mean that both Xenovia and Asia, having grown up in the catholic church, would they be against some of these things at this moment? Or would have been turned into devils change their mind? We know that Xenovia is apparently alright with contraceptions, but what about her views on Homosexuality? Would she be disturbed to share the same bed with one of the other girls for those special nights?
And what about Irina, now being an angel and all? Would she believe in these beliefs even more and feel them to be even more right? Or does Heaven not judge like that? What do you think?
And what about Rizevim? Being the son of Lucifer, does that technically mean he's the Anti-Christ, and if so, does that mean that his mother was a Jackal? Or would that be Vali's mother, and he was only told his mother was a human for sanity's sake?
Again, I don't ask these questions seriously, just thought I'd ask you something fun :P
2407923
That's just the thing. We only have some vague hints how the transfer of power was supposed to happen, and we don't know what laws of succession the current government intends to use. But that's why it makes it so much fun to speculate about.
Actually Xenovia is Protestant, so she'd no doubt have a more open mind about such things than Asia, who was raised as a Catholic nun. And we've seen Asia being fine with sharing the bed with both Rias and Issei.
Well, it seems pretty clear to me that the views of Heaven and the views of the Church are two different things in the DxD universe, which is why I'm looking forward to seeing the team go there in the current light novel, when the translation comes out. Valper Galilei's experiments were clearly not approved by Heaven, even though he was a member of the Church at the time. Irina's greatest problem is probably gonna be not to turn into a Fallen Angel. (That would probably give Azazel a kick, having Michael's Ace fall. I kinda want to see that happen, just to see his reaction.)
Hm, interesting question, actually. We know that the Beast 666 is around, so it would actually make sense that other elements from the Revelation are also there.
I probably answered more seriously than I should have then.
But that brings up the question, what do you think about these questions?
2408026
Really? I could've sworn she was Catholic. Wasn't she supposed to be representing the Catholic church when she came to take/destroy the excaliburs? Xenovia representing Catholic church, Irina the Protestant church, and the Eastern Orthodox refusing to send one?
Wiki: Since her childhood, she has endeavored in her training and studies for God and her religion. She was also raised and trained as the wielder of Durandal under Griselda Quarta as her sword master and legal guardian. Eventually, she become an exorcist, an agent of the Catholic Church, and partnered with Irina Shidou.
Now if we could only bash this into the head of every fundamentalist out there
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Really? Because honestly I was just thinking about the movie "The Omen" when I asked that question.
Honestly, the Xenovia/Asia/Irina one, I think its as you said. More than likely be a-okay with everything that happens that's supposedly frowned upon in the Old Testament (and for some things, the New Testament as well, and that's if we're only taking the Bible's words and not the Qu'ran's or Torah's words as well). I will admit though, would be an interesting look on the mindset of them should it happen and just how much a person can be brainwashed into thinking a certain thing when they're young enough.
I will say though, I do think that either Asia or Xenovia are Scandinavian, as its said they're both from North Europe. If this is true, think it would be epic to have one of them do this prayer-
Fader vår som som är i himmelen helgat varde ditt namn
Tillkomme ditt rike ske din vilja
Såsom i himmelen så ock uppå jorden ge oss bröd ock idag
Och förlåt oss våran skuld
-if only because I'm a fan of a certain Swedish metal band that made a song about the Swedish Carolean's and the prayer they did. Sure, it's a simple prayer, but they just make it sound so badass when they sing it.
As for the whole 'Anti-Christ' thing, in a way I want to say it would be an interesting twist to the story, but after thinking about it, it's also somewhat predictable. Not only that, but doesn't really lend anything to the story. God is dead, therefore, Christ is dead. If Christ is dead, then there would be no need for an Anti-Christ.
2408092
I could have sworn it was the other way around. But maybe I'm misremembering or the anime subtitles mixed them up. (I'll freely admit that I've only ever skimmed the first four light novels, since I'd already seen both seasons of the anime, before I started on the novels. So I could have missed that.) Doesn't really matter, I guess.
Really? I didn't know that. Although Scandinavians do tend to get portrayed with blonde hair in many anime/manga, so it would make sense. Although in my personal headcanon Asia has always been French. Maybe because I get a strong Jeanne D'Arc vibe from her initial plot line. But she could be from Normandy. That would technically qualify her as both.
I can see Xenovia as a Scandinavian easily. Her character design has some similarities to Rossewisse, who is definitely from Northern Europe, in my opinion.