An Earnest Appraisal · 4:29pm Apr 17th, 2013
seems legit
I do hate to make two blog posts in one day, but I fear that if I don't I'll be neglecting, once again, a critical piece of information I'd really like to share with all of you. Well, not as much information as the opinion of an informed individual concerning the Brony community (namely my father, who is actually quite 'with it'). It makes some rather interesting points, and adopts a refreshingly impartial attitude; I strongly urge you all to give it a read when next you have the time.
If you're reading this and the future is now, check after the page break for the quoted editorial, as well as a few annotations of my own.
The text highlighted in green is my own.
My Opinion of Bronies
For a definition of the term, please go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronies
First, I qualify this opinion of the brony community by sharing with you that my son identifies as a Brony. He is
sixteenTIMELESS, TIMELESS I SAYyears old, and writes fan fiction (stories written by fans which are read by thousands on the internet) based on the cartoon My Little Pony which features characters with names like Twilight Sparkle, Rainbow Dash, Pinkie Pie and Apple Jack. My son has some plushies, (that’s what bronies call their stuffed animals of the show’s characters) and t-shirts featuring these characters.My son is straight. I point this out because many casual observers assume incorrectly that bronies must be gay because they are young adult males who are ardent fans of a cartoon intended for little girls to watch with their mommies. I know of no data indicating that the homosexual percentages differ from that of the general population. The wikipedia article states that the majority of bronies are heterosexual.
So yeah, he kinda knows the whole fad and everything.
1. BRONIES ARE THE NEW TREKKIES
The similarities are obvious if you go to a convention. Yes, bronies have conventions, just like trekkies. That about says it, right there. Only, the bronies are current. They use modern technology to create music and videos, and their fan fiction is online instead of in print. (Yes, trekkies used to author and publish paperback versions of their own Star Trek episodes. I know this because I sat next to someone on a plane once who was reading one and explained to me what it was.)
I don’t want to sound judgmental, but bronies are mostly nerds. I was a nerd as a kid - ask anyone I went to high school with. I’m probably still a nerd, but I’m less nerdy now. Having a girlfriend can help immensely with that. Of course, for a nerd, there’s the challenge of getting the girlfriend in the first place. So I was lucky.
I can unfortunately attest to this.
2. BRONIES ARE A SUBCULTURE AND A COUNTERCULTURE
Bronies are defiantly defensive. They are smart and they are sweet. They raise money for charities, and they have strong morals that are consistent with those of the American culture. In this way, bronies represent a subculture that supports the larger culture it reflects and is part of. At the same time, bronies defiantly pursue their interest in the show My Little Pony with complete disregard to derision they know they will receive from society.
Bronies shout WE MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, BUT WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF US and at the same time shouting WE ARE THE SAME AS YOU - DON’T RIDICULE US WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT US.
I feel this is more or less dependent on who you ask. I think it's more a mix: "We may be different from you (obviously), but don't ridicule us when you don't know anything about us." To be fair there are many contrivances in the community that can be exploited were someone to ridicule us, but for the most part anyone who has a legitimate problem with the existence of the fad might as well go and join the Westboro Baptist Church; at least they'll be in good company then. Point being, there will always be critics, and there always have been, and we either have evolved not to care after several Internet cyber-lashings, or we are neophytes who defend the community should it ever come under attack by the ignorant. I'm not sure where I'm going with this anymore. Carry on.
3. BRONIES MAY TRADE POPULARITY FOR COMMUNITY
Geeks and nerds have a harder time making lots of friends. I experienced this, so I don’t think I need to cite any research to support it. The brony community is less judgmental and more accepting. The internet has made it easier for bronies to form a community than it was in earlier generations. I can imagine that the trekkies would have been an even bigger cultural phenomenon had the internet been around in the seventies.
The counterpoint to this is that some bronies wouldn't have had friends regardless of whether or not they became interested in the show. In my personal experience, I'm a brony and I'm well liked among my peers; of course, that being said, I don't prance around wearing silly hats or MLP-themed tees, though I do own a few of the latter. I also have the advantage of being in an exceptionally progressive school district; there is very little prejudice and we have a strict anti-bullying policy, one that I daresay is effective.
4. BRONIES MAY NOT APPRECIATE THE COST OF THE TRADE
It isn’t easy to go without social stimulation. There’s not much point of living in isolation unless you know it is a temporary situation. I think of the movie “Into the Wild” which chronicles the life of Christopher McCandless. Whether McCandless actually wrote this in his journal or not, I think of the way the movie presented the idea attributed to him, essentially saying (and I’m paraphrasing from a movie I saw years ago): All this beauty really doesn’t mean anything if there is no-one to share it with.
Many young men see the cartoon My Little Pony, which in the current generation is much more attractive than in previous generations. (The ponies are more anthropomorphized now, but in previous generations of the show, the ponies were simply homely. Seriously, even though they are animations, they are hard to look at.)—I'm surprised he went out of his way to view videos of the old gens; that's more than I would have done. So, these young men, in appreciation for a well-done cartoon, venture onto the internet to explore the show further or to research something they respect as a piece of entertainment and they find the brony community.
The brony community is full of intelligent, nice, sincere people who don’t have a clue about how their love for My Little Pony will make it even harder to find acceptance in the real world. To be fair, I suspect that the cartoon is not nearly as important to bronies as is the brony community—False assumption; it varies exceptionally in degrees. But, being fiercely defensive of the community, bronies may justify the trade off with thoughts like, “So I sacrifice acceptance among my peers. I’m giving up nothing, because I didn’t have acceptance among my peers already (as I mentioned above). This is a great trade for me. I’ve met some very nice, intelligent people. My best friends are in this community.”
What I mean by saying that bronies “don’t have a clue” is that some bronies don’t appreciate that differentiating themselves from most of society hurts their chances of accomplishing their goals in life. Bronies are proud of themselves and their artistic accomplishments, and they should be. Bronies are proud of their communities and rightfully so. Bronies don’t appreciate that “outsiders” will always view them with suspicion because, to most of our culture, it just doesn’t make sense that grown men would love a cartoon targeting little girls. Society sees this as creepy in the scariest sense of the word. Bronies think “sincere, nice, intelligent, creative, hard working”, and outsiders think “weird”, or worse yet, “pedophile.”
The outsiders are wrong, of course. Bronies are just the new Trekkies. Maybe weird, but harmless. Harmless isn’t even the right word. More like loving and caring contributors to society. But that’s not what the general public will think when they hear about bronies. And I can’t think of anything else that compares with pedophilia on the creepiness scale or the disgusting scale.
This being said, the wrong interpretation of the above is him saying it isn't okay to be a brony. It is. You just don't have to display it. And I know at least one person will compare this to trying to suppress homosexuality, or maybe religious beliefs, and the right to free speech, yadda yadda: THE POINT IS, if you want the most benefits out of social interaction, you don't obsess over the show. End of story. Be subtle about your participation, in my opinion. I wear a monochrome Rainbow Dash pin; when anybody asks what it is, I answer 'It's a pegasus.' I don't want to dictate anybrony's life here but I do think it's good advice, which is why I'm preaching it. You have to earn people's trust in order to introduce them to a stranger portion of your life. Alienating them at first impressions helps nobody.
5. BRONIES PASSION FOR THE COMMUNITY CLOUDS THEIR JUDGMENT
“I know I’m not a pedophile. You know I’m not a pedophile. My friends know I’m not a pedophile. So why should I worry about what the rest of the world might assume just because they are ignorant about who and what bronies are?”
To most people, the answer to this question is obviuos: “BECAUSE YOU DON’T WANT ANYBODY TO ASSUME THE WORST ABOUT YOU. FOR WHAT?!! A CARTOON? SERIUOSLY, YOU’RE WILLING TO RISK THAT PEOPLE WILL ASSUME YOU’RE A SEXUAL DEVIANT OUT OF LOYALTY TO A TV CARTOON? WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU?! EVEN IF YOU’RE COMPLETELY NORMAL, YOU HAVE SERIOUSLY QUESTIONABLE JUDJMENT.”
So, why do people choose to identify themselves as a brony? Because they don’t see it that way. They don’t imagine that people will view them so negatively. They certainly haven’t done anything to deserve such derision. Except to choose to ignore the obvious suspicion of “the uninformed.” BUT THAT IS THE POINT! Choosing to ignore the suspicion of society is CRAZY!
Bronies don’t see it that way because their judgment is clouded. In some ways, they are like a cult. “I like it here. I’m happy. I have found love and respect and meaning in my life. You should join us.” And all of this is true. I’m not disparaging bronies or cults. I don’t care to pass judgments on people who join cults. Honestly, they may be great for some people, as long as they don’t cut people off from their families. But, back to bronies, the mentality seems to be, “I’m doing nothing wrong, by anyone’s standards. Leave me alone.”
Unfortunately accurate. I've felt this way often, before my father pounded some sense into me. As great as the community is, you can give up public display and still enjoy the hobby. Again, while my father seems more to imply that any participation at all is taboo, that isn't the case. Just obsession, and being overly defensive of the fandom and the show that created it.
6. THE BRONIE BRONY (sigh) COMMUNITY HAS BEEN GOOD FOR MY SON
My son is a very good writer (oh stop it you), and he has found a very appreciative audience for his writing among the brony community. My son has made some great friends online in the Brony community. I don’t share my son’s passion for the brony community, partly because, at my age, it is impossible for me to appreciate the show the way my son does. Not because of the quality of the show - the quality is good. But I’ve lived through more drama than the show can express. I’ve learned the lessons of heartache and betrayal and fear and perseverance that come with life experience. I see the stories more as cute, and less as profound. The show is well done, but I’m beyond it.
My son’s fan fiction stories are much deeper than the stories presented in the cartoon. They are very deep for a sixteen-year-old. My son has learned a great deal about the writing process and collaboration. The skills my son has developed will benefit him for the rest of his life. And the friendships he has made may last him the rest of his life.
I can attest to this as well.
7. BRONIES MUST GROW UP AT SOME POINT
If people think it’s creepy for a young man to be an ardent fan of My Little Pony, just imagine how people would feel about an old man being a fan, collecting plushies and writing stories featuring cartoon ponies. On “The Big Bang Theory” the characters collect action figures and the audience finds this quirky, eccentric, and a bit immature. But it’s not considered creepy. It’s considered innocent. That will not be the case with old men bronies collecting plushies of My Little Pony characters. It will happen, though.
Some of today’s young men bronies will persist in their passion until they are old men, and they will be ridiculed, ostracized, and they likely will die alone because as soon as a woman learns they are a brony and sees their collection of plushies, they will bolt for the door so quick, even Rainbow Dash couldn’t catch them (doubtful).
I want my son to make choices that maximize his options in life. Choose endeavors that you enjoy: ones that are likely to make more people admire and respect you. People like and want to be around people that they perceive to be like them or people that they want to emulate. This goes for friends, employers, mates, everybody. As we grow and life demands more of our time, we need to focus on the things that will enhance our opportunities. To be blunt, the brony community cannot possibly offer enhanced opportunities simply because of the social stigma associated with it. That’s what makes it a poor trade in the long run, even if it is a fantastic community for a teenager.
I think we'll cross that bridge when we get there, honestly. If the community persists to old age, well... well, I can't even imagine what would happen. Anyway, this is only a small concern in my opinion.
8. MLP EROTICA DOESN’T HELP, BUT THIS MAY NOT BE VERY RELEVANT
I formed my opinion without ever seeing any MLP erotic illustrations and without giving them any consideration. I mention this because my son, after reading points 1 through 7 suggested that the MLP erotica gives people the impression that all bronies are into that sort of thing, justifying the assumption that bronies are creepy.
My son assures me that bronies who are into that kind of material are in the minority, as are bronies who actually fall in love with the FIM characters. Certainly, these “outliers” as my son calls them don’t help the perception of bronies among people outside the brony community. However, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if most people are unaware of these outliers and their odd fetishes and/or emotional attachments. Most people aren’t even aware of the brony community, let alone subgroups of the brony community.
In short, the outliers aren’t giving bronies a bad name. It’s simply the idea that grown men being so passionate about these cartoons intended to target little girls that freaks people out. I believe that there is nothing that can be done about that.
Mainly to prevent the counterpoint. And I didn't suggest the idea, I merely stated he ought to mention it while he's mentioning everything else.
9. BRONIES HAVE A CHOICE
In point 7, I said that Bronies must grow up at some point. That’s not accurate. Bronies don’t have to do anything. They may choose to identify as a brony: collecting MLP paraphernalia; going to conventions; buying silly looking hats with pony ears; wearing MLP t-shirts; watching the show; writing fan fiction; reading fan fiction; contributing to charities collectively or individually; creating FIM art; collecting FIM art; dedicating all of their free time to MLP; and participating in many other activities related to MLP that I’m not aware of. They could do none of these things or all of them or anything in between. They don’t have to grow up. (yay peter pan)
However, people who choose to identify as a brony are choosing to be misunderstood. There always will be people trying to figure out the motivation of the brony community because they simply can’t wrap their heads around the whole phenomenon. I saw a video yesterday where a guy suggested that bronies are trying to be ironic - suggesting that bronies are people who are essentially saying, “I know it’s weird, but that’s how cool I am - I don’t care at all that you think it’s weird.” Essentially, this guy is saying that the bronies are trying to be cool by being nonconformist. (yay hipsterloo)
This is from a guy who didn’t do a lot of research, but he did take some time to try and understand what the bronies are about. My point is that he gave it more consideration than most people will, and still didn’t come close to getting it right.
So, bronies have a choice. Identify as a brony and be misunderstood, or choose to not identify as a brony and avoid the stigma and confusion associated with it.
Thoughts? I'm interesting in hearing your responses. For now, though, cheers;
-Mindblower
That's... pretty accurate, but I will say this before I became a brony you could find me by asking about the angry drunk Russian who drinks a lot of coffee, now I'm just the drunk Russian who likes ponies. Oh how times change, also I'm not Russian but I've been told I can pull off a convincing accent.
tl;dr: I was already misunderstood, not in the woe is me way, just people didn't get my sense of humor.
Your father is a very wise man.
As a mostly-asexual transgender self-loathing nerdy college dropout in my mid-twenties, it's virtually impossible for me not to be different, ponies or not, so in regard to bronydom being a choice of acceptance within a small community of nerds over a larger social acceptance outside the fandom, I was never going to fit in very well out there anyway. I'm here because I'm a grownup who still watches cartoons, and this one happens to be pretty fantastic. That's seriously about it.
Still, while I appreciate some of the ideas brought up in that post, I do have a problem with the assertion that being a fan of a cartoon (or more specifically, this cartoon) could somehow contribute to a lower quality of life. It almost sounds as though the guy considers it a negative thing, and that dropping this fandom could enhance your ability to survive in the real world. I'd like to contest that by saying I was severely depressed when I discovered Friendship is Magic, and it's played no small part in keeping me both sane and able to cope with my life through what have been some pretty tough times.
On top of that, it's entirely possible to be a fan of something without it being an all-encompassing facet of your life. I have several brony friends who just watch the show, and don't really participate in anything else to do with the community. They own little to no merchandise and, for the most part, you wouldn't know they were bronies unless you asked, much like you might not know a Doctor Who fan until you ask, or someone who watches Parks and Recreation. It's entirely possible to lead a perfectly normal and healthy life and still watch a cartoon once a week in the fall.
The only fans who are really going to suffer for it are the ones who advertise that they're fans, and they know exactly what they're getting into when they don that t-shirt. It's not being a fan of MLP that might get you singled out, so much as it's advertising that fact, which is a conscious decision and in no way a necessary part of being a fan.
Edit: Please forgive the rambling nature of this post; I've been awake for something close to 32 hours at this point.
I've always preferred subtle references over flamboyant displays of...whatever. My interests are my interests. I rarely talk about any of them simply because they're no one else's business.
1015220
Gotobed.
And yes, I was trying to lead away from the 'don't watch the show ever at all' conclusion. I'm pretty sure that's not the conclusion he was trying to make; as you say, he was more pointing toward those who advertise the fact. But I will disagree with you that everybrony who does so knows the consequences; most of us are kids, after all, some of us with less experience than others on the social chessboard. I don my pony shirts when alone, at a convention, or around family who
have to put up with itwill understand regardless.You have plushies? WANT.
...ahem.
I think one of the problems with any analysis of brony culture is that there is no such thing as a singular "brony" any more; we've grown so large that we've fragmented. We don't have stereotypes, we have archetypes. For every casual, everyday fan there's an asocial creep with a hundred just like him, bunched into their fractal sub-subcultures. Casual bronies are very different from hardcore bronies are very different from brony artists are very different from cloppers, and if you've got an image in your head of what brony culture is like there's bound to be someone, somewhere who it applies to. People are complicated. Everyone has different reasons for liking what they like and being what they are.
I will say this, though. This is a generation that prides itself on tolerance. After millennia of conflict, we're finally trying to turn humanity around and get us to stop hating each other for petty reasons. We're taught not to judge each other because of race, sex, sexuality, religion, nationality, political affiliations or preferred video game console, among other things. (Admittedly, some of these peace-mongering efforts have been more successful than others.) But despite all this progress, despite all these campaigns telling people that it's our differences that make us special and we should never be ashamed of ourselves for being who we are, this guy is seriously telling me that I should avoid identifying in public as a fan of a show because "ew different"!?
And yes, oppression of homosexuals etc. is an appropriate allusion, because this is exactly like that. It gives me flashbacks to when my mother tried to convince me not to support the pride club at my high school because she thought people might start to think I was gay. Or when my mother... never mind. But even if I don't harp on about that, what exactly are the alternatives? Should I never get into sports, because everyone thinks that jocks are dumb? Should I never go out dancing, because everyone thinks partygoers are sluts? Should I shave my head, because everyone knows readheads don't have souls? News flash: stereotypes are everywhere. Most of us have learned to deal with it without taking up a condescending attitude.
I personally wear my Discord hoodie both to show that I'm a fan of the show and because it makes me feel more like myself. I am, after all, a kind of chimera. When people ask me about it, which has happened around half a dozen times, I simply explain that it's based on a character from a show I like, and that show happens to be about pastel ponies. And throughout these many conversations with non-bronies with no interest in the show, I have not once been called a freak or accused of being a pervert. (Although one person did accuse me of having terrible taste.) It's almost as if most rational people don't have knee-jerk reactions to things that are new to them. Yes, obviously there's a time and a place; if I'm going for a job interview I'll wear a hoity toity shirt, not my Hoity Toity shirt. Anyone who doesn't have that kind of sense isn't going to be swayed by an article. But seriously, if the worst deterrent this guy can come up with is that I won't be able to get a lady in bed once she sees my Pinkie Pie figurine (because as you know, all bronies are male, and getting ladies in bed is the only thing that matters to men) then I think I'll live.
tl;dr: If you actually "don't want to sound judgmental" you can spread the word about bronies being basically normal people instead of telling us to hide because we look weird. It is not our job to change because we make you uncomfortable. And adopting an attitude of "well if you want people to think you're weird that's your choice" really isn't helping.
tl;dr tl;dr: If you're going to write an anti-brony article, at least be honest about it.
Point 5: (I have to do this) Typo in the first-sh sentence of 'obvious' (I HAD TO)
Point 7: On this site, Dusty Sage contradicts that whole 'old men/creepy' thing. He's really a nice guy.
General points from my perspective that may or may not be relevant;
-I am one of those people that wears the shirts all the time, but not the 'vector with slogan' ones. I own the ones with good art on them, mostly because it's difficult to find anything with a decent design on it, for a girl, that is not slutty. So it's pretty functional for me to have pony shirts. (I also have Pokemon ones, but that may just be me.)
-As I have said when
basically scraping the depths of my soultalking to MB here, I've basically been hated by everyone ever. I've rarely had more than two close friends as a child, as I moved every year up until Grade Two, and the two close friends I made there have been off-and-on. Before ponies, it was dragons; it's really the fact I can immerse myself in a world that lets me be who I am, and my academics and art have not been negatively affected by the intrusion of cartoon ponies.(What was that quote I used again? Ah, right; "[The topic at the time: My OC is a Changeling because] it's the aspect of change, that I can have a skin that people can damage and hurt without ever really reaching the real me."
-Ever since ponies, I've actually been a lot more social. I used to have the two friends I mentioned above, but now I have a decent circle of about six, not to mention I actually have acquaintances now. I've also made a few friends online, something that seemed rather impossible to me a couple years - hah, even a couple months! - ago.
-You may have your plushies, but I have a Nightmare Moon figure! Tremble before me!
-If anyone tries to hate on me because of my artwork, literature or style choices simply because they have miniature pastel equines in them, I really wouldn't do anything. If you're that dim, there's really nothing you can do to hurt me. Not to mention I'm pretty decent in self defense.
1015300
*jealous of your Discord hoodie*
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1015451
In his defense, he isn't anti-brony, not least that I can see.
And did I say I had plushies? I didn't mean to if I did. I do have a Vulpix plushie, but no pony plushies. I have some pony toys, though. Basically the same thing in terms of this letter.
>>Nonagon
My apologies if this came across as condescending or anti-brony. It isn't intended that way, nor is it intended to be judgmental. Just friendly advice. Believe me, if I could tell everyone, as you suggest, that "bronies are basically normal people", I would do that. (In fact, I do tell people that on the rare occasion that anyone asks.) Unfortunately, I don't have the attention of the masses. But that's the point of the opinion - the Brony community always will be a fringe community, and as a fringe community, it always will be little understood and its members will be stereotyped.
My point is not to suggest that Bronies hide in shame. There is no shame in being a brony. My point is to suggest that most of society will never get it, and you can't force them to see the truth. My point is that Bronies shouldn't let their love of MLP cost them job opportunities or relationship opportunities. Most Bronies probably already know this. But there are some who may not have considered it.
I am a fan of some cartoons. I like South Park and Family Guy (although some episodes are terrible.) I have friends that I share this with, and I have friends I don't share this with because they don't watch either show and wouldn't understand why I like to watch them.
I don't know if I'm being very clear, but I wrote this opinion for the benefit of one brony who I care about very much. I wrote it to try to explain why people would laugh at the joke by Seth Myers on SNL Weekend Update. "Quick, kids. Get in the car, it's a brony."
Some day, when I host Saturday Night Live, I will tell everyone that bronies are regular people.
I'm gonna have to sit down with a glass of orange juice and read this one a few more times to be able to properly comment on its content. Stay tuned!
Honestly, I'd say it's a pretty well-formed appraisal. I can't really gripe about anything in there at all.