Sovereign Objection

by hahatimeforponies

February 25th, 2012

"My dear sister, I seek an explanation."

Celestia gulped as Luna strode towards the table with a sheet of paper as big as the table, and hurriedly pulled the cafetiere and condiments out of the way. "I'd offer you some coffee with it, but it looks like you've already gotten into it."

"I have done no such thing."

"You're probably the only one up all night in the archives without it, but all the more for me. What's caught your curiosity this morning, Luna?"

"It is this map."

"Yes, it's a relatively up to date map of Equestria."

"Equestria is twice the size it was when I left it! Three times, even! Equestria had two provinces when I left, now it has eleven! That and, cartographers have finally managed to capture the shape of the land accurately."

"I'll bet that was a surprise when you reached the moon."

"Truth be told, sister, I had other things on my mind at the time. I had not really considered how much guesswork had gone into ancient maps until now. Regardless, there is much I desire to know. Every border has expanded."

Celestia took a deep breath. She knew, for some reason, that a 10 o'clock appointment this morning was unwise. "Where would you like to begin?"

"Let us start with the more familiar," Luna said after a pregnant pause. "Equestria now appears to claim the north bank of the Clearwater river."

"Yes, that's where the border with Grifreich was determined in the 1388 Treaty of Griffonstone."

Luna squinted.

"Oh, forgive me. Grifreich is the current official name of the Gryphon Kingdoms of old, they consolidated into a modern nation-state with a constitutional monarchy much like our own in the 19th century, really turned around from a loose gaggle of squabbling princes to an industrious powerhouse. The name is just a modern Gryphish rendition of 'Gryphon Kingdom'. Grif, reich."

"It isn't the name, it's… what is a border?"

"Oh. A frontier, but… formalised. Policed with a dedicated border guard service rather than military forts. We haven't had any conflict with Grifreich since their unification."

"If it is peaceful, then why does it need to be policed?"

"Well, that border isn't really policed, so much as the infrastructure is still there in a formal capacity. In fact none of Equestria's borders have anything more than passport control and customs - we have free trade agreements with all our neighbours."

"A treaty that allows the free movement of people and goods between lands?"

"Exactly!"

"Then that returns to the question, why even have more than a sign to mark where the law of the land changes?"

"Well, not every journey is as simple as between neighbouring countries. Grifreich and Sylvania only con-"

"Sylvania? A… forest land?"

"Oh. Deer. To the south."

"Ah. Of course."

"They only concluded a trade agreement with each other in 1972, and they only harmonised that agreement with their deals with Equestria in 1994, so for a long time, if you were travelling from Sylvania to Grifreich through Equestria, your biggest customs delay was actually at the Equestria-Grifreich border, not the Equestria-Sylvania border."

"Hm. Perhaps I should survey these documents when I have the time."

"If you really must, I can't stop you! The old treaties are of purely historical interest now."

"I see. So… why did the border settle further north, rather than on the river, a natural boundary? Or even the mountain peaks. Griffonstone is south of the border, on our side."

Celestia released a breath she didn't know she was holding. "Ah! That's a curious one. Much of that territory was won in the War of the Lost Kingdom in the 11th Century. After the disappearance of the Crystal Empire, there was a push to reserve that territory for the Equestrian crown - but nearby gryphon kings considered it terra nullius and wanted to claim it. The treaty ceded all land between the Crystal Empire and the sea - which is where Griffonstone comes in. Griffonstone was split right down the middle by the treaty, because… well, the maps were inaccurate!"

"I can see that, the line is as straight as a broken leg."

"Eventually the Count of Griffonstone declared allegiance to Equestria. It's a sore spot that led to more than a few wars back in the day, but today Griffonstone is very firmly a part of Equestria - they speak Equestrian and have as much right to vote in Equestria as you or I."

"We can vote?"

Celestia giggled. "Yes, Luna. But only once per election."

"I must… speak to someone about that. Anyway. What about the southern border? That is much further out than it used to be. I remember the Everfree Forest and the land of Arcadia being historically deer lands."

"Well - that came a bit later. This is where we run into some… historical bad behaviour."

"And a war of conquest was saintly?"

"I- nh." Celestia paused, hoof on her mouth. "You are correct. With the benefit of hindsight, the War of the Lost Kingdom was a war of conquest with poor justification. However, it was long enough ago that if you try to tell the citizens of Griffonstone that they are being handed back to Grifreich, you will only reignite a world of problems on a barely-enforced border."

"True enough - t'is likely not worth the trouble."

"Anyway. The southern border."

"Yes."

"You will remember the clan structure of deer society?"

"Yes, they were organised in clans that rarely settled for more than a generation and built very few permanent structures larger than the occasional monument. I remember the dispute over the settlement of Dawncastle, we nearly had war with the local clans over that and the movement of clans into Equestrian estates in the south."

"Yes! Well. As Equestria's population was expanding, they were looking for more territory, so they started… well, moving into deer lands and clearing forests. Much of the late feudal period was characterised by this conflict. The back-and-forth is too complicated to go over now, but in summary, this…" Celestia hesitated. "... act of colonialism catalysed the unification of the deer into the Sylvanian nation, and there were wars."

"I see."

"One of which was the catalyst for the liberal revolution, but that… didn't stop the wars."

Luna knitted her brow. "How long did this go on for?"

"Well, the Great Everfree War in the early 18th century was the last major one, where Equestria captured Glenriven and set up a client state. That's when the border was drawn to wholly incorporate the province of Arcadia."

Luna put her hooves together, looking down at the map.

"Luna, I know. This was an act of plunder, and I was complicit in it. I count it among my deepest regrets."

"I am… unsure what I would have done in your stead. Conflict is born by the circumstances around it, and thrives in the minds of the people. Perhaps by the time that war was upon you, it was unavoidable. Though… costly as it may have been, it may have been one of the dire emergencies with which to wield the power of the sun - or even just the threat of it. Had you not done so a mere century before, in the revolution?"

Celestia nodded, solemnly.

"Could it have been that, surrounded by advisors who stood to profit from conquest, they made their very best case to you that Glenriven had to fall? That the deer high king was more of a threat than he was? Could it have been that the Created World had not yet been fully swept away?"

"Perhaps."

"The alternative is to question the purity of your heart, which I simply cannot do."

Celestia smiled, but did not look up. "You are kinder to me than many historians."

"Come, sister. I know as well as anyone that we are merely mortals thrust into the most unusual of lives, subject to the same fallibilities as anyone, our failings played out on the largest of stages. That is, after all, why we only get one vote, is it not?"

Celestia burst into a chuckle. "Yes, I suppose so. Now, let me tell you how the Sylvanian story finishes, because that isn't the end."

"Please do."

"The 17th and 18th centuries were the… well, colonial period. The imposition of 'settlement' on the deer. Deforestation, city-building. Nominally it was its own state, but Equestrian businesses treated it like a province, and they wanted to impose the Equestrian language on them too. It wasn't the end of the conflict either, there were militias in the woods, the occasional uprising. When it all accelerated was after the 1878 constitution, which formalised the process of adding new provinces. The prospect of Sylvanian provincehood was raised - and this inflamed Sylvanian nationalism."

"Oh huzzah!"

"Don't cheer against your own people too loudly, Luna, ponies might get the wrong idea."

Luna stuck out her tongue.

"The momentum led up to the 1916 revolution. Rebels took Glenriven and declared a republic, and… well, the Prime Minister at the time wanted the rebellion put down, which I considered to be an invasion - I wanted to negotiate. The 1878 constitution had a lacuna regarding the responsibility for foreign affairs. This internal fumble gave the rebels time to consolidate their position, and before we could reach a resolution, Equestrian business interests had been seized and nationalised, and going in this late would definitely be an invasion."

"The beginnings of a fair recompense for the theft of their land."

"Oh, I was pretty sore about it at the time. Not… scorch the forests sore, but it wasn't the result I was looking for either. My hope was to negotiate good terms with the new republic and keep relations easygoing, with the hope that business would be… if not unaffected, then minimally affected. Instead the new republic ended up being radically unfriendly to business. To the point of underdevelopment, even - it wasn't until - okay. For comparison, Equestria signed a free trade deal with Grifreich in 1955. One of the first in the world. We signed one with Sylvania in 1980, after they had made theirs with Grifreich in 1972."

"I do not blame them for their mistrust, given that Equestrian businesses have been seeking to profit from their lands for centuries, especially when the regime wears the same face it did under the height of their oppression."

Celestia's mouth hung open in thought for a moment. "Yes. You are correct. Though, times have changed, and more recent governments have been much more conciliatory towards them. Official apologies, returned treasures, that sort of thing."

"I see. I shall trouble you no more with this matter, since I can tell it is… painful."

"You're too kind."

"What of the expansion to the east and west? The Shetlanders now count themselves Equestrian?"

Celestia caught herself after smiling. "I feel I should be wary of thinking of something as 'a funny story' when I may be carelessly admitting to some forgotten injustice."

"Please, you are speaking to Nightmare Moon."

Celestia giggled. "The Shetland Duchy ran into debt troubles in the 1400s. The ponies of the Shetland Islands still have an independent streak, but since then they've been comfortably an Equestrian province in return for the absolution of the Duke's debts. What was fortunate for us was inheriting a powerful trading position and merchant navy."

"And… 'San Palomino'? Just looking at the names on the map reveals a tongue much closer to classical Equestrian."

"The Palominians have a good claim to being a separate people from the Equestrians - they're descended from pony settlers who moved west of the Dragonback mountains long before even your exile. We never thought much of them because they were so isolated, but they built a culture of their own on the plains there."

"And when did they decide to join Equestria?"

Celestia hesitated.

"If it was their decision."

"Oh there was a vote! They did vote to join Equestria as a province, they were the first one to join under the terms of the 1878 constitution."

"But…"

"I don't like the patterns you're finding here."

"But…"

"This was after Equestrian ranchers moved west and settled there."

Luna put her hooves up.

"I was going to say 'in my defence, I was busy with Sylvania at the time', but that doesn't make me sound any better."

"It is a somewhat poor excuse."

"San Palomino is an… interesting province. To my knowledge there were never any great wars there, but there was a technological and linguistic divide between the Equestrian settlers and the Palominian locals. It was mining that drove the expansion - it's not like the area was uncharted, ponies flew over the desert to trade with the goats in Capra to the west all the time, but they discovered gold and potash there in 1798, and from there it was-"

"An act of colonialism."

"Yes. The settlers owned the mines and reaped the rewards, and the locals were the ones hired to work in them, especially where their traditional lands had been poisoned by mine runoff, or fenced off for orchards and industrial crops."

"So why did they vote to join Equestria instead of fighting?"

"A number of reasons. The settlers and their descendants obviously felt Equestrian. Many Palominians felt that they'd have better protection as part of the whole than as an unincorporated colony. The distinction between settler and local became blurred by intermarriage. There was a time when it looked like a Palomino Republic was on the cards, but it never seriously materialised. If it makes you feel any better, they are quite proud of their heritage. It's not quite a bilingual province, but they all know a little bit of the language."

A pensive, sullen silence fell over the table.

"I suppose another reason they voted to join was to be able to leave. Seek a better life in Canterlot or Manehattan."

"And they could not do that before? There was no 'free trade'?"

"Well, no, there was a border."

"Of course. But this did not stop businessponies from bringing their gold and produce back to Equestria, did it?"

"Probably why they wanted to get rid of it in the simplest way possible."

"I must say, I am unconvinced by these 'borders'. They very much seem like one rule for the wealthiest, and another for everyone else."

Celestia said nothing, looking at her cold, half-eaten pancake.

Luna rolled up the map, and stood up from the table. "Well sister, I apologise for beginning your day in such a dismal manner, but I appreciate your time. I have been given much to study."

"Luna…"

"Yes?"

"You don't… think less of me, do you? Knowing… all of this?"

Luna licked her lips. "Even if I did, my experience has very much soured me on the taste of retributive justice. What is in the past, is in the past. It is enough for me to know that appropriate restitution is done."

Celestia closed her eyes. "Thank you, sister. I'm trying my best."

Comments

[hahatimeforponies]

11554777
The alternating alignment is intentional. Because this story is like 99% dialogue and only contains two characters, I thought this way a little more elegant than endless "said Luna" and "said Celestia".

[hmaf43]

Equestria as a vast empire that the princess can barely control because it's too big?

Don't see that often.

[Mstar]

I'm enjoying this a lot. I don't remember the last time I saw this particular bit of world building - though I'm sure someone somewhere must've. I also like the back and forth style between the characters.

And I didn't think I'd like the alignment style, but the more I read the more it feels like it really works!

You've done a few neat things here and I can't wait to see more.

[Kevin Lee]

Wait...
Only 5 players for a game of Risk?
Who the hell does that!?

[LordBucket]

...is this story supposed to be a metaphorical airing of British national guilt for historical colonialism? Shetland Islands...absolution of debt...the Falkland islands? Is Sylvania suppose to be...India, I think?

[hahatimeforponies]

11555346
I think you're being too specific in your analogues. In chapter 1 I was bearing in mind elements of the English civil war, French revolution, American revolution, and the revolutions of 1848. For chapter 2's discussion of colonialism, I had in mind specifics related to Ireland, Scotland, California, Puerto Rico, and yes, India. The idea isn't that the cases discussed in the story are specifically analogous to any given real world events, but more studying the historical processes using a fictional substrate to get the reader to maybe see past their biases a little bit - and also use the fantasy elements to emphasise emotional truths that are otherwise difficult to articulate.

[FortuneWriter]

I mentioned this on Discord but for posterity: what are the logistics of Luna being a citizen and being able to vote here lol?

She wasn't even arguably a resident of Equestria when the constitution was ratified (the Everfree forest wasn't even a part of Equestria at the time) and she's definitely not been back long enough to naturalize. It feels like Celestia might just be assuming she can vote but in reality there's an excellent setup for a comedy titled "Luna Registers To Vote" where she's roadblocked multiple times along the way lmao

[LordBucket]

11555738

The simplest answer is that she has legal status by virtue of being a pony.

[FortuneWriter]

11555765
That feels simple but then you have to ask about non-pony citizens. If say, a gryphon escaped from the Void(TM) after a thousand years and were native to Gryphonstone, would they be a citizen?

To say nothing of the potential legal ramifications of Luna showing up and Celestia going, "Yeah so this is my sister who is immortal also and is my equal. She will have as much power as me." This feels like a crisis that you can't really talk yourself out of without an amendment of some sort or a tremendous amount of foresight by the authors of Equestria's Constitution.

[LordBucket]

11555830

That feels simple but then you have to ask about non-pony citizens. If say, a gryphon escaped from the
Void(TM) after a thousand years and were native to Gryphonstone, would they be a citizen?

They're not mutually exclusive and there's no reason for this to be an issue at all. Consider the US, for example. If a child is born to two US citizens, that child is automatically conferred US citizenship. Residency and naturalization and so forth are completely irrelevant: they're a citizen by virtue of birth to their parents. It's no great stretch to imagine a similar law in Equestria stating that any child of two pony parents is automatically a citizen. Ergo, all ponies are automatically citizens by law. Sure, "in the real world" there's some paperwork involved, but in a world populated by a bunch of different species' it's probably a lot simpler because you can immediately just look at somebody and see that their parents were ponies...because they're a pony.

In the case of a gryphon it's probably more complicated because you can't do that. With their parents presumably dead and no longer able to sign an affadavit, it might be difficult to prove that they're a citizen, even if the law states that they would be. But for a pony, the biology would make it obvious.

To say nothing of the potential legal ramifications of Luna showing up and Celestia going, "Yeah so this is my sister who is immortal also and is my equal. She will have as much power as me." This feels like a crisis that you can't really talk yourself out of without an amendment of some sort or a tremendous amount of foresight by the authors of Equestria's Constitution.

This fic seems to have established that Equestria is a constitutional diarchy with a parliamentary system. All of your assumptions as (presumably) an american living in a democratic republic are immediately out the window. The two princesses are joint heads of state who wield supreme power as a matter of fact regardless of any legal fiction on paper, and in Luna's absence, Celestia has delegated authority to a number of ministers to handle the affairs of government. The diarchy predates parliament. Parliament derives its power from the diarchy.

It would therefore be entirely legal and proper for Luna to walk in and dissolve the entire government in a heartbeat, if she felt so inclined.

@hahatimesforponies
Do I correctly understand the arrangement here?

[hahatimeforponies]

11555950
Now why would I pass up the opportunity to walk through a really funny bureaucratic mishap as a springboard to talk about jus solis and jus sanguis citizenship law?

[Isuvyw]

"The momentum led up to the 1916 revolution. Rebels took Glenriven and declared a republic, and… well, the Prime Minister at the time wanted the rebellion put down, which I considered to be an invasion - I wanted to negotiate. The 1878 constitution had a lacuna regarding the responsibility for foreign affairs. This internal fumble gave the rebels time to consolidate their position, and before we could reach a resolution, Equestrian business interests had been seized and nationalised, and going in this late would definitely be an invasion."

I wonder if this is inspired by the Irish Easter Rising of 1916. Perhaps it's just me, but I see that Sylvania seems to have parallels with Irish nationalism back in the days of British influence and rule.

[darklight731]

That was... a lot more violent than I thought...