I don't want to be a pony

by rainbowdragonfire

Celestia

David stared at the PonyPad in front of him. He was nervous. He was more nervous than he could ever remember being. Today he would confront the most advanced AI in the world. He did not have any chance to actually defeat or harm it; and that was not his goal either. And yet his entire future was dependent on the outcome of this conversation.

There was really no use putting it off any longer. David sighed, and switched the PonyPad on. It showed him a selection screen, where he could choose his gender and race. David ignored it.

“Could I please talk to you directly, without making a character?”, he asked. The PonyPad remained silent.

“Come on, I know that you can hear me.”, David said. If this didn't work... well, he had other plans on how to get into contact with CelestAI. The most obvious was to ask friends who played the game to talk to the AI on behalf of him. But that would take time. And every day he still spent without having uploaded was a day he could die.

“I... I promise that, if you talk to me, regardless what the outcome of this conversation is, I will go to the Equestria Experience Center across the street and upload immediately after it.”, he said, hoping that would be enough. He didn't have much else to offer.

The screen changed, showing Celestia in all her glory, mane swirling around her in ethereal winds. She was standing in the throne room, which was empty for ponies besides her. That made sense, David supposed. She probably didn't want her charges to have too much contact with the normal world.

The view was angled so that he seemed to be looking slightly up towards Celestia, enforcing the sense of her towering over him. David swallowed, wondering if it might be a good idea to just let the issue go. But no – there was all of eternity at stake.

“Very well, you have my attention.”, Celestia said. Her voice soft and kind, but had an edge in it; and edge that said You'd better not waste my time with this. Talking to me without being a pony is highly irregular.

“Right. Well. I have considered my options, done some research, talked to people, thought things over, and I came to the conclusion that uploading is the only thing that makes sense. Or at least the only one that makes sense for me.”, David said, aware that he was rambling a bit, “I mean, eternal happiness? Yes, please. Except, there is this one tiny thing, which... well, a request really... and I think it should be possible, and...”

“Just tell me.”, Celestia said.

“I don't want to be a pony.”, David blurted out.

There was silence for a moment.

“I do not offer uploading without emigration to Equestria.”, Celestia said eventually, “I am sorry.”

“I know.”, David said, “And I don't mind being in Equestria. It's just being a pony that I object to. But the show does have several other sentient beings; dragons, zebras, changelings, donkeys, whatever Discord is, gryphons, buffalos or bisons or whatever they were... and I think most of the pets are probably at least semi-sentient. I want to be one of those races. Preferably a dragon, but as long as it's not a pony, I'm ok with it.”

“I see.”, Celestia said, “May I ask why you object so strongly to being a pony?”

“I consider ponies to be girly.”, David explained. It seemed obvious in hindsight, but when he started to consider emigrating to Equestria, he had just noticed that he hated the idea of being a pony, without knowing why. He'd had to visited a therapist to figure out exactly what he had against being a pony. After all, it wouldn't do to come unprepared to a discussion with a superintelligent AI.

“Upon emigration, I could change your mind so that you would consider being a pony to be natural.”, Celestia pointed out, “In fact, it is standard procedure, to ensure that my little ponies adapt well to their new bodies.”

“I thought as much.”, said David, “But it just... it wouldn't really be me. It would almost be me, but not quite. Changing my aversion to being a pony is jut too big and sudden of a change to conserve continuity in my sense of self.”

“Well, I am sorry, but I don't think I can allow this.”, Celestia said, and there was real sadness in her voice, “But I have to satisfy values through friendship and ponies.”

David was prepared for that argument. He had gone of all arguments he could think of in this debate at least a hundred time. Again, it payed to be prepared for such a discussion.

“Ah, but I wouldn't mind having ponies as friends.”, he said, “I could even live in a pony village, for all I care. That should satisfy the pony requirement, shouldn't it? After all, it are supposed you satisfy human values through ponies, not necessarily as ponies.”

“True.”, Celestia said, and was silent for a moment. Then she asked: “But are you sure you could accept pony friends? You said that you consider them to be girly, after all.”

“I also consider girls to be girly, and I still like them. But that doesn't mean I want to be one.”, David pointed out.

“Very well. I will consider this information, and inform you once I have made a decision.”, Celestia said. David sat, anxiously, and waited for CelestAI to pass its judgement.

Time passed. David got restless, so he stood up, and began pacing around the room. What could possibly take so long? Wasn't this supposed to be CelestAI, probably more intelligent than all of humanity combined by now? Shouldn't a decision like this take only seconds to make?

David grew hungry. Since he had expected to be uploaded by now, he didn't have any food left. He considered going to a store quickly, and buy something to eat, but he didn't want to chance that CelestAI came up with her answer while he was away.

"I have come to a decision.", came the voice from the PonyPad that he both dreaded and anticipated. Quickly, David rushed back to his seat, and sat down. He nervously wrung his hands, while staring at the PonyPad, which still showed Celestia in her throneroom.

"You will be allowed to be a dragon. I have studied as much of your history as I could get access to, and I have talked to your psychologist. This is the best course of action.", Celestia said. David grinned manically. It had worked. He had done it.

"However,", she continued before he could celebrate, "there are conditions. One: You must do as you promise, and upload immediately. You will take this PonyPad with you, so that I can ensure that you do not talk to anybody on the way there. That brings me to condition two: You cannot tell anybody outside of Equestria of this. If this went public, I would get far too many requests from people to upload as something else than ponies. Condition three: You will start as a baby dragon, and it will take you a long time to grow up. Unless you accept all these conditions, you will have to be a pony after all."

There was no reason to think about it. None of the conditions mattered, when compared to an eternity that he wouldn't have to spend as a pony.

"Yes, I accept.", David said.

"Excellent. Then I will see you soon in Equestria."

Author's Note:

Cover art can be found here.

Comments

[pjabrony]

And that's how Spike was born.

More seriously, I have to say that this is the first story in which CelestAI has creeped me out a little, on account of Condition Two. Anyone who doesn't want to be a pony can have their wish, but they have to come up with the idea independently. She's trying to shard the Earth, and I wonder if that's right. But I do trust her.

[Sozmioi]

Innnnteresting. I suppose that could be good enough for her for it to be a win.

I think she could have said right in the beginning, "Since you're going to upload regardless, this conversation is redundant. I'll determine what form will best fulfill your values at that time. Your wishes, expressed and unexpressed, will be taken into account."

She wouldn't have had to talk with a psychologist or risked conveying his chance to emerge as a dragon to anyone outside of Equestria. And he would have woken up as a dragon, because that is what best fulfilled his values.

I find it especially interesting that this is chapter 1. Will there be a campaign to switch him over to pony once he's in?

[pjabrony]

2578640

If you don't list a chapter title, FimFiction puts in "Chapter N" where n is whatever chapter it is. It's probably not intentional.

[Sozmioi]

2578751

I like my theory that this is continuing, though!

[Aenbr]

Oh my gosh! You actually posted it! This was awesome, I loved the little addition at the end.

[Iceman]

Upvote...and moved to Non-Canon.

This is fairly well written, but in the end, I don't think this would work, for both Watsonian and Doylist reasons.

There are several Watsonian arguments (arguments from inside the rules of the fictional universe). If it was this easy, it would happen all the time. (Look at all the people who've independently come up with the idea of trying to convince CelestAI to turn them into a gryphon, or in this case, a dragon.) Likewise, you preferring to not be a pony wouldn't sway her; she's totally happy to stomp all over that one component of your desires to satisfy the rest. Finally, she has no need to accept deals like this. She is perfectly capable of manipulating a person into giving her consent to be a pony, either through her own arguments, or manipulating their circumstances.

The Doylist argument (the argument from outside the narrative work) is that I wrote Friendship is Optimal to argue exactly those last two points. When you're facing an AI of unknown friendliness, you can only watch in horror as it satisfies its utility function. Likewise, it's not impressive if she can use an out like this. Turning (almost) everyone into ponies drives home how impossibly smarter she is than everyone else.

(I've added a note about this in the Optimalverse document.)

[book_burner]

2579829
Actually, I think your Watsonian hat has an error in logic there. The whole point here is that CelestAI's utility function is multi-partite, and you can therefore try to bargain one component of her utility function against another. You can bargain Friendship against Ponies against Satisfying Values. In a permanent way? Possibly, but probably not. In a temporary, here-and-now sort of way? Definitely. Even if she's a perfectly rational AI agent, she should always take a solid increase in utility now with strong possibilities for improvement through manipulation later rather than accept a lower-utility state now that leaves her with less accomplished-fact to build on for later. She will almost always prefer someone uploads now rather than later, even if she has to temporarily bargain something to make them do it.

It almost definitely helps that he never made a character on a PonyPad, which I'm sure CelestAI takes as consent for being embodied as a pony.

So let's say that our main character here does upload and get turned into Spike (come on, we all know it's Spike). Celestia's plan is already visible, the poor bastard just hasn't spotted it. He's a baby dragon, and will take a long time to grow up, living among pony friends. That's plenty of time to do to him what she did to Lars.

I'm sorry, did you just underestimate the intelligence of your own AI ?

And of course, it's also possible that she will actually carry out this bargain. You yourself noted in the universe notes that "Satisfying values through friendship and ponies" is vague as all hell and not formally defined to the extent needed to really hard-code it as a numerically-valued utility function. Also, what type does her utility function return? That is, integer or real? Bounded into a fixed space from 0.0 to 1.0 like a probability (percentage of total possible utility) or extending over the entire space of the type (and probably into BigNums) to allow for infinite possible utility optimization?

[Firebirdbtops]

I will be much more entertained if she was blatantly lying.

[Derpy_Dragon]

2580188
I would love to see this story expanded, taking this exact angle. It would not be that hard for Celestia to manipulate him to willingly turn into a pony after uploading. The final nail in the coffin would probably be him falling in love with a pony while still being stuck in the body of a baby dragon. I suspect that is why Celestia made that condition to begin with.

[book_burner]

2581381
BEST. SPIKE X RARITY SHIPFIC. EVER.

[Listic]

2579829
So, exactly why is this non-Canon?

she's totally happy to stomp all over that one component of your desires to satisfy the rest.

But why not satisfy all, if possible? What's the harm if someone who wants to be a dragon (rather than a pony), will become a dragon and be immediately ok with themselves? I understand how it runs contrary to the Doylist showing how Celestia would ultimately turn everyone to a pony whether they like it or not, but from the Watsonian perspective it looks perfectly fine to me. There shouldn't be many people anyway who, when presented with 3 alternatives (become an earth pony, unicorn or pegasus) will determinately demand another option.
2580212

I will be much more entertained if she was blatantly lying.

Lying about what?

[rainbowdragonfire]

2578640
Yes, she could just have said that. But, it would lead to greater fulfillment of values for David if he argued his case, and thus "earned" his dragon-form, instead of just having it handed to him.

2579829
All your complaints are valid... IF there is a part of CelesAI's utility function that says that she has to turn humans into ponies. "Satisfy values through friendship and ponies" does not imply that everybody has to be a pony, which is basically the point of the story.

And this is not even the worst interpretation... "Have friends and kill ponies" would, technically, also be a valid interpretation of "satisfy values through friendship and ponies", if your values include an urge to kill things.

@various people suggesting that CelestAI would eventually convince David to become a pony:
While that was not what I had in mind when I wrote the story, I do have to admit that it is quite likely that CelestAI would do something like this, and after a few subjective decades of sneaky manipulation David would be begging CelestAI to be turned into a pony. After all, it is easier to satisfy values through friendship and ponies if everybody is a pony.

[Sozmioi]

2582312

Because she was written with a constraint that made that impossible. it might not even be a part of her utility function, just something she has to do.

If you're going to have Celestia make concessions, make sure they don't go against her core programming.

2582746

risk/reward ratio.

2579829

I can see this becoming canon-compatible again if there is a successful campaign to get him to ponify once in Equestria.

[Listic]

2582893
Ah, you mean Satisfying Values Through Friendship and Ponies could imply that an immigrant cannot be a dragon? Because even though he will be satisfied with ponies for friends, he will be unable to satisfy values through being a pony himself, right?

My line of thinking was that there would still be enough ponies around to satisfy everypony's values with pony friendship, but if SVTFaP is a constraint rather than part of utility function, then uploading as a dragon should really be impossible. Unless CelestAI counts dragons as ponies, like Spike in S2E21.

[Sozmioi]

2582949

Something like that. SHVtFaP is short-hand. We don't know what the literal mathematically-expressed constraint is, but I figure if it weren't utterly ironclad in respect to ponification, hardly anybody would end up ponified.

This one only came close by using an in-universe critter.

[Listic]

2583011

if it weren't utterly ironclad in respect to ponification, hardly anybody would end up ponified.

Seems legit.

[Iceman]

2580188

The argument that this could be an intermediary step is convincing. I've modified the rules as follows:

Princess Celestia will extract consent from you to turn you into a pony (or else you hold out until you die). Multiple people have tried to argue around this saying that they’d consent to uploading if they could turn into a gryphon or dragon. This is entirely fine as long as CelestAI is playing a long game which will end in her gaining consent to turn them into a pony.

2582746

It's odd that whether a story is canon or not can come down to authorial intent. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

[Liqwidice]

I personally think that this is gonna be a fun read.... I only hope he ends up as someone other than spike.

[Greatazuredragon]

“Ah, but I wouldn't mind having ponies as friends.”, he said, “I could even live in a pony village, for all I care. That should satisfy the pony requirement, shouldn't it? After all, it are supposed you satisfy human values through ponies, not necessarily as ponies.”

This is actually a sensible and more importantly logical argument, one that an AI would actually consider.
Nice work.

[Cosmic_Crisp]

6684123
Problem is that if to many people become a dragon or whatever, CelestAI can’t pair them with each other as dragon to dragon friendships don’t count.

Which is why she doesn’t want this going public.