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Fizzy Orange
Group Admin

3584183 I like a lot of your suggestions.

3584258 When you're right, you're right!

Here is what I suggested in the Brainstorming thread:

I think one thing this story need is a serpent. Puissance just SUDDENLY deciding to get the other horseshoes? When she's been pretty darn obsessive about that sort of thing in the past? Nah.

I think it would work MUCH better if someone, preferably someone later revealed as a Changeling, were to approach her and tempt her with that first Horseshoe. That way Puissance's death could be seen as both her fault AND Chrysalis!

I'm still not convinced Puissance is THAT unhinged.

I'd be more comfortable with her dying if it's framed as a tragedy and not just a 'AH! Serves that bitch right!' like you seem to be heading for.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585569 : Hmm...

In all honesty, while I'm fine with Puissance getting killed off by the horseshoes, if she does in fact survive and make it long enough for Scepter to talk to her and for her to find some manner of redemption... I don't think I'd want to kill her off after that. Like RDD was saying before, it'd be like if Scrooge saw the 3 Ghosts, repented, reformed, and then was hit by a bus on his way back to give Bob Cratchet the day off.

I'm okay with her dying unredeemed, but if she does get redeemed, I'd much rather her live and actually spend the last few months or year of her life with her family, as a good pony.

Fizzy Orange
Group Admin

3584782

Though as for the armor, just how much power does Puissance really need to be up the "threat index". This story already has the four horseshoes themselves, do we really need a fifth artifact of power cluttering up the narrative. What abilities does the armor really grant her that we couldn't just assign to the horse shoes instead. I'm not asking you to cut the armor, just to consider what purpose it's actually serving and if the story might not be simpler and more straight forward without it.

Maybe the Armor has a Tamberlaan gem cut in the shape of a unicorn horn on the helmet, allowing its wearer to use telekinesis?

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3585663
Agreed wholeheartedly about her surviving and spending some time with her family.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585670 : The idea behind the Armor, IIRC, was that:

* It granted the basic tribal abilities of all 3 tribes to whomever was wearing it. Anypony who wore it would be able to fly, use simple magic like telekinesis, and have the strength of an earth pony.
* It granted Alicorn-level abilities based on the tribe of whom was wearing it. So if Puissance put it on, she'd have the flight, speed, and cloudwalking power of an alicorn (and basic magic and strength). If Trixie put it on, she'd have the magical power of an alicorn (and basic flight and strength). If Greenie put it on, he'd have the strength, stamina, and growing abilities of an alicorn (and basic flight and basic magic).
One idea I had was that Puissance could let one of her pegacorns use her Armor, since the pegacorn is of two tribes (and thus would have 2/3 alicorn powers using it), though I never really developed the character I wanted to have use it.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3585628

She can't die a natural death, no, it has to be self-inflicted by her own stupidity because she's a horrible pony that deserves it. Apparently.

Sometimes fiction, much like life, isn't fair -- Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life.

Granted, I'm willfully ignoring the second half of that quote to make a point -- Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. In the land of or own fictional making, however, we really do sit in such judgment over all our characters. We really can both giveth and taketh away in equal measure, so I'm not sure it makes much difference.

Is it a pathetic and tragic end? Perhapse, but at least for my own part it has nothing to do with any malice toward the character; it's just the kind of story I'd like to tell here. As a rule I prefer happy endings, but not all endings can be such.

he has all the narrative room he could want to write Puissance's death as something that actually means something and accomplishes something besides simply killing her off

And I agree in full. I'm no more satisfied with the vindictively hatful version he seems to want to make of it either. Yet I still want to work with him on this, to get past that and make this a story that could maybe mean something.

Or at the very least I want the opportunity to write my own follow-up. I guess technically I don't need his story to do that. I can frame my own needs around a natural death as easily as any other. However, RK was my original inspiration, and for all he and I disagree about many things, I still feel like I owe him the chance to try telling his story first.


3585663

I'm okay with her dying unredeemed, but if she does get redeemed, I'd much rather her live and actually spend the last few months or year of her life with her family, as a good pony.

Sometimes we just run out of time before we can fix our mistakes.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585687
3585682 : I guess, to clarify my perspective:

I'm okay with her dying at the dig site once she gets the horseshoes, particularly if we set it up like I suggested earlier. She's lived a long and greedy life, with her greed concealed by government service and (presumably) public works like the orphanages mentioned in EoI. But she's never tempered her greed, only hidden it behind platitudes and political power, and so perhaps it has grown, maybe even to the point where her public works and duties are only the thinnest of coverings for her desire to own it all. If at the end of the quest, with the final horseshoe in reach, she takes that one final step, her unchecked greed at long last overwhelming what remains of her self control and compelling her to go for the horseshoe even as the dungeon collapses behind her and endangers the lives of her companions--if at the end of her life, she finally succumbs to the greed she never cared to control and does something monstrous along those lines--then I'm fine with her taking up the horseshoes, fighting Trixie, and dying when her armor breaks. It would be an appropriately tragic story about a mare who gave in to greed until it consumed her, who started out just coveting a few more coins and ended up willing to sacrifice lives to find treasure. That could be a good story.

Alternately:

I'm okay with her surviving the dig site, possibly slightly wounded if the horseshoes do blow up in some non-lethal manner, subsequently talking with Trixie and Scepter, repenting, and spending several months to a year with her family and trying to make amends before she passes away. If the horseshoes don't work--or if, perhaps, at the very end, she does make the right choice and shields Scepter from harm rather than obtain the final horseshoe--I think it could be a really good story for her to talk with those two and learn what she's been missing all her life. And I think it could be really sweet if we then learned that Puissance went to her family, apologized for her ways, and tried to be better. And I think it would be a great story for Trixie, helping to counsel one of her Night Court elders and effect a positive change in their life. Plus Scepter could continue to be adorable. This seems to be the end RDD supports, and I find it very promising as well.

We could even work the party in Emeral and I were talking about before. If Puissance is injured by the horseshoes, maybe while she's recuperating she learns there was a rumor that she's dying. Confused, she asks where her family is, if ponies think she's on her deathbed. And Scepter has to break the news to her that they're partying like its Summer Sun Celebration. And that drives home just how badly she's screwed up with her famliy, encouraging her to try and fix things.

What I don't like is the compromise scenario where Puissance uses the horseshoes, is mortally wounded, clings to life just long enough to learn that she's awful, and then dies before she can meaningfully change. That just seems gratuitously cruel, to be honest.

Sometimes we just run out of time before we can fix our mistakes.

Maybe in real life, but that makes for a crummy story, in my opinion.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3585808
The second ending is indeed the one that I basically support, and the only one involving Puissance dying that, at this point, I'd give a "yea" vote to. The former one certainly sounds more interesting than the original outline and maybe even something I'd enjoy reading as a fanfiction, but at the moment it probably would get a "nay" - probably (it's still considerably more pessimistic then I want to allow in the Lunaverse anymore), but not definitely.

The second version is more optimistic, yes, but more to the point it feels like it's accomplished more. Trixie should know that life isn't fair and people who don't deserve it die - her own grandfather, for example, or her mother, whom she never got a chance to know. But the idea that it's possible to change even during the twilight of one's life, and more importantly for Trixie to actually succeed in helping somepony change at that time, just carries more gravitas.

I dunno. Invariably during these brainstorming sessions I start thinking up how I'd write the fic, and right now three words from Puissance to Scepter have been sticking in my brain, said when the horseshoes have failed to deliver on their promise for whatever reason and Puissance has to face the fact that there will be no miracle to extend her life:

"I'm scared, Scepter."

I could write an entire fic just to get to that one line.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3585808
See, I kind of want it to be both. I want her end to be tragic, but not entirely without hope. I want her greed to lead to her own downfall, but in the aftermath I want her to finally learn and change for the better, even if she has little time to act upon that change.

However, I don't need her to die the instant after her heart opening epiphany with scepter (maybe lingering on yet an extra week or two). I've got a few ideas of things she could yet do in that limited duration to make at least partial amends with her family, and even if only in a small measure leave behind a better legacy.

Maybe in real life, but that makes for a crummy story, in my opinion.

A tragic story, yes, but that doesn't make it a bad story. This site has a "tragedy" tag for a reason.


3585849

I dunno. Invariably during these brainstorming sessions I start thinking up how I'd write the fic,

I often do the same myself, and indeed this is fast proving to be one of those times for me as well.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585849 : I do like that line... and I can just see Scepter giving his great-grandmum a big hug to try to comfort her.

Actually, I think one other important conversation Puissance might need to have is with Luna. Puissance I imagine is always somewhat haughty and imperious... it could be interesting seeing Puissance admitting her fear to Luna, maybe even asking if she knows what happens after death, or asking if Luna understands what it's like to feel so powerless. All the power and wealth Puissance has collected can't forestall the Reaper, he's coming inexorably, and there's nothing she can do... I wonder if Luna would have some advice for her.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3585939
I think a talk with Luna might be fitting as well, but if I see Scepter as Puissance's "Ghost" of Christmas Future, I see Luna as maybe being her "Ghost" of Christmas Past, and Scrooge isn't supposed to fully reform until the last.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585961 : Wouldn't Scepter be the future? I could see it going Luna->Trixie->Scepter, with maybe Luna coming before the team heads out to the mountains for the archeological dig.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3585982
Yes, Scepter is "future", I typoed... :facehoof:

...and yes I was thinking that Trixie might be "present", and that Luna's chat could come at the prelude, but that would really be up to RK, and I'm not sure that's the story he'd want to write. So if not, then Luna could maybe instead be past as the first of a three part webisode-epilogue.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3585939 3585961
Agreed, both for Puissance talking to Luna and Luna probably being one of the first "ghosts" that she talks to (though the first ghost, our "Marley," should be Puissance's personal physician)

For the record, my personal belief is that Luna knows for a fact that there is an afterlife, but she's basically clueless about what it's like, since the doorway is one-way even for her.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3586006 : Hmm... as a Marley, might it fit better for it to be another old pony who had already seen the light as he lay dying? Only for Puissance to conclude, "Well, maybe you're dying, but I'll find my way out of it yet!" And then she meets Luna and so forth?

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3586023
Might work. Strictly speaking Marley is supposed to have had all the same problems Scrooge did...Baron Fields might actually work in that regard.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3586050 : He didn't seem terribly greedy, though... but I'm sure Puissance knows some other old pony who spent most of their life chasing stuff. Maybe even another noble.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3586006 3586023
I think I like the physician better. He'd be the one who tells her she's dying and so she should start putting all her affairs in order, which is ostensibly what kicks all the subsequent events in motion. Besides, we're already playing fast and loose with the ghosts scenario anyway.

Some other random old and dying pony seems utterly superfluous. Plus, as much as I want to kill puissance with this fic, I don't think we need to create some other character whose only purpose in exiting is to die at the outset.

Baron Fields might actually work in that regard.

I know enough about what T&T has planed to know that probably won't be an option, but it's not really my place to give specific spoilers.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3586057
Well, no, he didn't, but then Luna doesn't seem like a child and Trixie isn't a pony who lives for only one day and Scepter isn't going to dress in a big black cloak. The metaphor is a loose one already. The point being that Baron Fields is a pony who was a member of the Night Court and did a number of bad (though not terrible) things, and who also was at least something like a friend to Puissance for many years. If as he's dying he tries to convince Puissance to change her ways while she still has time (this could be months before the fic itself takes place), he serves the same basic narrative function.

3586078

I know enough about what T&T has planed to know that probably won't be an option, but it's not really my place to give specific spoilers.

Fair enough. He's just my first thought after "physician."

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3586084

The point being that Baron Fields is a pony who was a member of the Night Court and did a number of bad (if not terrible) things,

Oh. I didn't know the last bit... but I'm not necessarily up to date on the latest developments from CtM. I'm only up to the last published chapter. That works, then.

vazak
Group Contributor

I only have a small motive, and expertise to weigh in here, and I am falling more towards RDDs earlier points so I'm just going to make a few minor notes. On the LD and SSS involvement, I agree with them not being carted off to prison, even if things did get illegal they probably didn't sign up for it knowingly (and as RDD said seeking immortality isn't innately evil) And while I'm not necesarilly 100% on her going crazy evil ETC, the idea of her going on a power mad rant and them not liking it could be interesting.

P: I will rule all of Equestria, everything, everyone. will. be. Mine!
LD: Buck!
SS: This wasn't part of the deal you hag!
P:Silence!
LD: Screw that lets fight!

Ensuing magical lightning bolt and magic blast that, at least hurt a bit, before the heroes save the day and at the end Trixie sees them in intends to "not notice" if they leave.

Ttrixie: Well I suppose that flash of your may have blinded me and I just...
RD: Um Trixie, they're gone. Motions to empty space where they were standing (insert magic cricket sound and a left over tumbleweed respectively).
Trixie: Those brats, I was going to let them go!
Cheerilee: Did they actually commit any crimes today, or-
Trixie: How dare they run out on a classic like that!

Also I'm personally not much for Scepter, I know he's become rather popular but he just sort of feels a bit overly pure (I have never met a pure child) and sort of unnecessary in my eyes. Though I do sort of imagine Butters talk with his grandma whenever him talking to Puisance is brought up.
Still that's just me, sorry if I missed some decision being made regarding this stuff or if this isn't helpful or just gets in the way.

Talon and Thorn
Group Contributor

3585047

Generally in her few appearences in Mountain I've tried to Humanise (Equinise?) Puscience a little, the picture of her with her husbands, a few interactions with Max in the chapter I'm writing at the moment.


3585442

Maybe have Trixie and Ditzy go along on to the dig? Trixie to learn to be a noble and Ditzy because Dinky is showing some interest in archaeology?

That way you can get Dinky / Sceptre interaction and if Puissance is talking about leaving a legacy for her family Ditzy can talk about learning to let go and let your children stand on their own four hooves as she's recently learnt with Dinky.

3585849

"I'm scared, Scepter."

:fluttercry:

It might also be interesting to look at what Ponies think happens after death, if anything.
I'd favour some form of reincarnation.

3586050
3586084
3586107

Well Baron Field's might work as a rather more literal Marley. At present I'm planning to have him die peacefully in his sleep at the end of season 1 after retiring and passing on his role to Buttercup. I could possibly see his death as one of the contributing factors to Puscences search for immortality, he was one of her last peers at court and his death might remind her of her own mortality.

However, I am working with the possibility that they might have been lovers once so I could certainly see him appear as a ghost / hallucination during her last days / hours.

Although I've not worked it out in depth, yes he's one of the nicer courtiers but as Luna pointed out on one there is clean, he's done some bad things over the decades he's been at court.

3583972

I'm fairly sure, "You're going to die and none of your wealth/philosophy of life can help you," is a pretty big game-changer when it comes to personalities.

Depends highly on maturity of personality. Generally, 'everybody dies, sooner or later, including me' is something people accept somewhere around their thirties or forties or break. And that's not saying, that there is no need in terminal illness to trigger hunt for immortality, the mere mention of immortality-granting artifact is enough.

That's NOT saying, that in case necromancy is allowed in the setting (I remember references to old DnD magic system), there is a much more direct and simple way to stick around.

3583825

8. Puissance thinks she doesn't need it. By now she's pretty unhinged and hopped up on her power, declaring she'll overthrow Luna and rule Equestria.

What for? Unless the artifacts degrade mental facilities heavily, even in case of accepting this as long-term goal, the most clever step is to hide and act from shadow. Open fight against a system is winnable only in case of enough resources available, and something says me it is not the case.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3586378

That's NOT saying, that in case necromancy is allowed in the setting (I remember references to old DnD magic system), there is a much more direct and simple way to stick around.

Dunno if you've read The Return of Tambelon yet, but in fact necromancy is allowed, and Grogar's goal in it is basically the same as Puissance's: he wants to become immortal because he's afraid of dying.

The difference being that his fear drove him to commit mass genocide in order to transform into a lich, a creature that would have to continuously kill people to fuel its immortality.

Puissance is pursuing a set of four magical artifacts that, near as I can tell, don't actually require her to at any point hurt anypony, neither in order to acquire them nor in order to get them to work.

3586486
I didn't, but I found reference in some of the threads.

AFAIK, DnD liches didn't have to be souleaters, but even if we stick with it, there are many more types of undead, and there are spells like soul jar, as long as DnD analogy works. As last resort, polymorph-like spells used to transform into something ageless by definition or necromancy spell used to trap soul in kind of magical construct are as much acceptable for a character that actually want to stick around.

Anyway, quite a set of ways. Given Puissance seems to be a really wealthy person, in case she really wants to keep going, she should have some plans launched already. And seriously, I really hope you, people, do not see immortality as inherently immoral goal.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3586528
Of course not, as long as you're not hurting anyone in the process of trying to achieve it.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3586528 3586538
Like RDD says. Immortally isn't immoral, but for the purposes of our setting it also isn't easy. Otherwise every rich pony would probably just go out and buy it.

Talon and Thorn
Group Contributor

3586528

Maybe necromancy is possible but always has some sort of side effect which makes it less than palatable even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

Start of Darkness the prequel to order of the stick springs to mind where Xykon realises that as a lich he has not sense of taste, and it was the taste of that first cup of coffee in the morning that really made living worth it.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3586528 : I wouldn't say that pursuing immortality is evil, but I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility that, if some method for immortality were suspected or discovered, Luna would suppress it. We already know that certain spells are illegal--use of illegal magic was one of the charges against Twilight. Luna might want to classify 'immortality' spells as illegal and suppress them, if only to prevent a Malthusian catastrophe.

I'm not saying we have to go this route, but it's an option.

That all said, I'm growing fonder of the ideas RDD proposed about the horseshoes just not working (or not doing what Puissance wants) and her instead having to come to terms with it with Trixie and Scepter.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

(On a side note, I wonder if Puissance would will Trixie something if Trixie did succeed in changing her heart a bit. I can just see Trixie either getting something sentimental instead of valuable, since she convinced Puissance that love and friendship are more important than wealth, and Trixie griping that she taught Puissance too well. "I didn't say wealth was totally unimportant! It's very important in certain situations, like when you're willing things to Knights of the Realm!" Or maybe she gets a goofy white-elephant style gift.)

Fizzy Orange
Group Admin

3588039 A giant Toltec Head!! :p

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3588072 : I loved that Simpsons episode. :-)

A little more seriously, I dunno, maybe a college fund for Dinky or something would be a nice thing to will her, without really changing the dynamics of Ditzy's Perpetual Poverty for the time being, since it wouldn't unlock for several years in-universe.. And I bet Dinky would love to be going to school one day on the Vicereine Puissance Noctilucent Optiebeurs-Golo scholarship. (Although, if she does reform, perhaps just a modest anonymous scholarship).

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3587338

Luna might want to classify 'immortality' spells as illegal and suppress them, if only to prevent a Malthusian catastrophe.

I'd rather we just vaguely leave it at any and all magic related to immortality is just extremely rare and even more extremely difficult to actually use. No need to go putting a downer on our magical fantasy world by suggesting our already immortal god queen is suppressing the knowledge for socioeconomic reasons. That just adds a whole kettle of needlessly unfortunate implications to the mix.

A little more seriously, I dunno, maybe a college fund for Dinky

Willing something completely useless to Trixie could be good for a one-off laugh, but over all I don't think we need Puissance intervening in the L6's lives. Besides, given her Ditzy's already famous status as a hero of the land, which is only likely to increase with each season (not to mention Dinky being a modal student with excellent grades), I don't think college scholarships are going to ever be a problem. Dinky will probably have her pick of any school in Equestria with or without any help from Puissance.

Besides, if we start having her hand out gifts, eventually we'd reach Carrot Top, and it's hard to do anything there without seriously changing the dynamics of her farm.

Talon and Thorn
Group Contributor

3588227

Her own train station given she seems to find them so romantic?

I don't know what it is but they just call to me in some way you know, the hellos, the goodbyes, the hustle and bustle, the trains, the way the pistons go in and out, in and out, in and out.... Is it me or is it hot here? Oh look it's Written Script, I need to go, um, talk! Yes, Talk to him!:rainbowwild:

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3588227 : Hmm...

Puissance's Will: "Rather than dole out financial largesse, I have decided to give each of the knights a more sentimental treasure I think they will value more. To Dame Carrot Top, I bequeath... a basket of carrots from the Isle of Delicious Vegetables. Accessible for only one week of the year, these carrots cannot be grown elsewhere and are said to be the most delicious carrots in the world. They--"
Trixie: "What?! A bunch of carrots! She could have given you something to help your farm! She could have given you money, or a tractor, or--or--even fencing! What are you going to do with a bunch of stupid carrots you can't even grow more of?"
Carrot Top: *chomp* "Oh wow, these are delicious! Best gift ever!" *chomp chomp chomp*
Trixie: "..."
Carrot Top: "What? I like my gift."

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3588241
Well it's worth a laugh if nothing else. :twilightsheepish:

I guess my other concern is that "reform" should never equate to turning a character's entire personality insideout. Puissance can become a nicer pony without the sudden need go about performing random acts of altruism. If a character changes too much all at once then it's not really so much reform as "replacement". Besides, I'd think much of her efforts in whatever little time she has left might need to be reserved toward trying to mend relations in her own family first.

Though I also think we might be getting ahead of ourselves. This thread is supposed to be for discussing RK's fic, and it's starting to feel like we might be hijacking that.

3588316

Besides, I'd think much of her efforts in whatever little time she has left might need to be reserved toward trying to mend relations in her own family first.

Ahem, what for? I'm serious. I can understand that this is a family-friendly aesop, but damn it. If a self-centered slightly sociopathic bitch finds that her plans can't work and she is going to die anyway, there is only one thing to do. Fall down gloriously. It may be a week-long party, culminating in drinking poison (and informing guests that they already did the same), or, as she literally has nothing to loose, taking with her some of her enemies in a spectacular fashion (yes, I remember Lunaverse policy of lightheartedness, these examples are taken to extreme to illustrate the point). Anything to laugh from the bottom of her black heart as she falls into grave. And yes, her will likely to be something to make everyone involved mad.

Fizzy Orange
Group Admin

3588535 the good old haunted house clause!!

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3588535 : Seems a bit dark... and kind of a weird ending. I'm not sure 'Puissance learns nothing and spends her last few months tormenting her enemies' is a good way to end the story.

3589241
>Seems a bit dark...

Yes, a bit dark, and I'm not happy with it either, but I can't think of any other believable end except her breaking completely. And who said she learns nothing? She may learn that friendship and family mean allies, and allies are always good. But embracing values of love and friendship is a completely different thing and does not happen overnight. People - and ponies - who don't believe in friendship, love and tolerance have a reason for it, and it does not vanish simply because death is near.

There is a good book with related ending, "The sea-wolf" by Jack London. I recommend it.

Upd.
Hm. Actually, I can.

"Dear element of Kindnes, I will die in a year. Neither I want my collection of ponies to dissolve, nor I want you happiness. The funny thing is, that they can live together, but the feel very uneasy in society. Moreover, their unique heritage gives them interesting capabilities to earn their income. So, I'm going to entrust my collection to you. Hell, I'll even provide the funds for you to start an agency of unusual services. And yes, I'm going to watch and laugh as long as I still can watching you straggle with unwanted responsibility you cannot pass because of your nature. Now ciao, I have my other collections to entrust and flank to laugh off."

La Vallett1
Group Contributor

3585496 Why did the flashback remind me a little of when Margaret Thacher (did I spell it right?) died?

Talon and Thorn
Group Contributor

3590055

This is an example of the um.. strong feelings about our ex-prime minister (recorded a few years before she died)

And no it's Thatcher.

La Vallett1
Group Contributor

3590120 Sorry if I have offended anyone. It just reminded me of the news showing groups of people (mainly Irish) celebrating her death.

Talon and Thorn
Group Contributor

3590139

I'm certainly no fan and my grandmother actively hated her.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3590120
Heh,.. my favorite line might have been the part about giving everone shovels and delivering her straight to Satan. Though was she really that unpopular, or is it just my ignorant Americanness rendering me incapable of grasping the finer subtleties of British comedy?

Anyway, I'm not sure Thatcher is a great comparison to Puissance outside of both being female leaders. Puissance might be a greedy old bat, but she does at least maintain a magnanimous public image. I'd say our Thatcher equivalent would have more so been Fisher -- before he went completely off his rocker insane. Not really in regards to the particulars of political philosophy, but more so in both being uncompromisingly hardnosed leaders who never gave two fucks about what anyone thought of them.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

3590139 3590145
Funny you should mention the Irish, 'cause my dad grew up, and currently lives, in the Republic and loved her, even though she was never his PM.

I...have no strong opinions one way or the other.

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

On another point:

On LD and SS. I think they could be interesting as sort of dungeon guides ("We do this thing all the time!") but Im not sure if they really fit, particularly with some of RDD's ideas about how the dungeon crawl is less a race between competing teams and more a conventional dig with Trixie and Scepter tagging along. Anyone have thoughts?

GrassAndClouds2
Group Admin

3585514 : Small point on this:

with Trixie's big lesson here being that she should learn to look at the Big Picture the way that Puissance has always had a talent for doing - but she should learn to do it without forgetting the little ponies along the way.

This is more an issue with Fisher than Puissance. Fisher was the one who cared only about the Big Picture ("Equestria must be strong!") and didn't know how to look at the little things as well (e.g., the fates of individual citizens). Puissance believes firmly that you can both handle the big and little things if you just try hard enough and control things firmly enough, as shown in the first chapter of Ice Hearts. And she generally tries to do this, making sure not only that her provinces and Equestria are awesome, but that the little things within each province and place work properly as well.

I would say she has almost the opposite problem. She wields too much control over things, micromanaging everything so it comes out perfectly like she wants. From her, Trixie might need to learn when to back off and let things naturally take their course, or when to allow others to do what they want even when she (Trixie) thinks it's a bad idea and she has the power to stop them.

La Vallett1
Group Contributor

3590161 Judging from what I remember reading about her, plus from what my dad told me, she really was as popular as dry rot. And I mentioned Thatcher because of the flashback G&G2 wrote in his comment about Puissance's family members rejoicing her death.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

3590176

From her, Trixie might need to learn when to back off and let things naturally take their course, or when to allow others to do what they want

I don't think micro managing is a problem Trixie is ever going to have to overcome. She's already got the let somepony else do the work thing down pat. :scootangel:

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