Ooh, I recently got my poll card.

What's the opinions on the referendum, chaps and chapettes?

Do you know who you're voting for? Can you be swayed? Are you underage/foreign, but would like to cast your opinion on one of the more important votes the UK has to offer?

I'm voting Out in the referendum. The EU is a wonderful, brilliant concept that has helped keep the peace in Europe since 1945 and helped Western Europe rebuild after the war and I have nothing against it. However, it's a trading bloc.

A monetary union between so many different and diverse economies is a recipe for disaster. If it was just stable economies such as Germany and France, then it might work. But the idea that you can tie together strong (Us) and weak (Greece, Spain, Eastern Europe) economies is just bonkers. It was never designed to do that, never mind be a political union.

So I say we cut ourselves off from it, and watch it crash and burn. At which point, the Germans will have to (again ) pay for their mistakes. That's why they're so concerned with us leaving remember. We go, our banks go too.

I want to stay in because I like their labour laws for one thing! You know, like that deal where employers have to give you one months notice and redundancy pay before they let you go? That's not a perk of the job, that's the law and an EU law at that so if it goes away employers can all of a sudden just tap you on the back of the shoulder one day and say "Hay you? Yeah, your fired. You have half an hour to get out of here." Especially note worthy if you work for a European firm who will suddenly find owning facilities in the UK far less sustainable without the EU tying things together.

So yeah. there's my two pence.
Worst thing is though, this isn't going to be the last one for a reasonable while if we choose to stay. The anti-EU block is just going to push for more and more referendums until they get what they want.

Edit: Oh, I also kind of like the open boarders and work where ever you like thing so if the government here really screws up I can just emigrate away. Probably have to learn a new language but at such a point that would be a small price to pay.

I'm leaning to in myself, mainly because of the EU regulations that help like workers rights as mentioned above, but also because many leave arguments are factually inaccurate to mislead voters. We're not part of the free travel zone so we don't get hoards of Europeans in easily to 'steal' our jobs, and the other argument I see is EU ruined our steel industry, when in fact the EU has been pushing for tariffs on cheap Chinese steel to protect EU steel, and who's been blocking the measure? The Tories.

The EU is not without its faults, but it needs fixing, not abandoning. You don't pluck weeds from a garden with napalm.

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A monetary union between so many different and diverse economies is a recipe for disaster.

You could say the same about London versus mid Wales.

5241492 I'm more for staying in.

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I'm a Scot living in France, la coeur de l'union europénne, and I believe that the EU promotes a healthy trading relationship with the rest of Europe. It also keeps us together; if we start separating and breaking deals, it will hurt our relations with the rest of Europe. Not to mention, the fact that going in and out of France and other EU countries is made much easier by the free movement laws.

Since I'll be returning to the UK before the referendum, I'll be firmly voting to stay in the EU. Vive la France! Vive l'union europénne!

Interesting views! I've heard many times that the younger votes have a much higher bias towards voting in, and this has been no exception.

I'm personally interested in leaving the EU. I like democracies, and the EU certainly has a lot of things to fix on that front. When we're not allowed to vote our own laws in, it starts becoming less of a democracy led in Britain, moreso a dictatorship led in Brussels.

I'm also a fan of some of the things Nigel Farage has to say. I've watched both sides, including the debate (Which I would encourage everyone to watch to get some kind of understanding of it, whatever your opinion), So I can't say I'm uneducated in it.
(I'll link the debate at the top)

But one thing that I should say, is that I can't say I'd agree with whatever side I was on: The amount of fear-mongering that has been thrown at us on the TV, mostly by in supporters. Whatever happens, this is not the end of the UK. One let's us run ourselves, the other makes us a vassal of the EU. Neither option is promoting "The end times", not while we're still in NATO.

5241521 Yes, and you would be correct. Everyone in the UK is now being made to pay to 'save' a dead steel industry that can never be profitable. It's the same with Europe. Staying in, we will have to pay to save knackered economies like Greece and Spain that simply can't operate in the same way the UK and Germany can.

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but also because many leave arguments are factually inaccurate to mislead voters.

The stay campaign has done quite a bit of fear mongering though. We can survive and prosper outside Europe. The only reason the EU wants us, is because the Germans want another strong economy to help take the strain of supporting the many failing economies in the Euro zone. According to the stay propaganda, if we leave, we'll have no trade, to money, no one will have any protection from the evils of big business, and anyone who votes out is a racist skinhead.

You are right though on one thing; the EU does need fixing. It needs to contract. Greece and other countries that effectively play the system, gaining the advantages without really contributing, should leave. Turkey certainly shouldn't be allowed to join. But that isn't going to happen, not when Germany desires an 'ever closer union' which it can effectively control.

I'm voting to Leave. The reasons are the idea of a federated Europe disturbs me, I want to use imperial measurements more than metric, I don't like the monetary union, the immigration issue's led to a threat upon Britain's green space and farmland, the open borders make it harder to keep track of suspects in criminal cases and Britain was only interested in joining the common market (EEC) not establishing a European version of the USA.

5241697

the immigration issue's led to a threat upon Britain's green space and farmland

Sorry, would you mind elaborating on this? It's not something I've heard of before.

As for the referendum, I haven't decided which way I'm voting yet.

5242206 Then let me spell it out for you. An influx of thousands of people on a regular basis increases the population of the UK without increasing the land area, this means that the quantity of housing is insufficient to ensure everyone has a roof over their heads, those who have rundown places tend not to pass them on to the authorities for the sake of the impoverished and these things lead to more housing being built whereby open countryside and farmland get dug-up and replaced with cheap, ugly new-build estates. And if that weren't enough the increased housing means a greater demand for water and electricity and more traffic on the roads since there's a surprising lack of people willing to stick with public transport and traveling by their own muscle power.

If anyone's interested, here's another doc:

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Well, I can't vote, but I say out. Don't like the fact that we have to let all the migrants in when we can't provide for our own people anyway, and they could easily be terrorists.

5243957 Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

5245880 Bit of a diversion but... I doubt that. The methods used by refuges to get to and into European countries tend not to be the most reliable; slow at best potentially lethal at worst not to mention be a fugitive of sorts once they have entered the country. Even legally doing so there are a plethora tests they have to pass and and whatever settlement programs that are keeping an eye on them they will have wait out or work behind the backs of. It isn't a valid avenue for terrorists. Besides, looking at those who have already committed acts of terrorism we find they tend to either be people already living in the country who have become radicalised or people who have used more legitimate means to enter the country.

Not say we should let them in (a different point altogether) just that it is unlikely terrorists are going to pose as refuges to get into the country.

5246086

Not say we should let them in (a different point altogether) just that it is unlikely terrorists are going to pose as refuges to get into the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/world/europe/germany-refugees-isis.html?_r=0
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-two-suspected-isis-militants-found-posing-as-refugees-in-austria-a6775456.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12006892/International-manhunt-underway-after-French-police-let-Paris-attacks-suspect-slip-through-their-fingers.html

These links seem to say otherwise.

My point exactly

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Unlike something like the USA, we in the EU are unable to vote in and out the president even if we knew who he or she was (apparently there are 4!!!).

This is because the EU doesn't have a president. Various institutions within the EU have presidents (such as the European Council, and the European Commission), but these roles are not "head of state" type roles like the president of the United States is. They're just like a committee chairman sort of role, similar to, say, the Speaker of the House of Commons (who we also don't get to directly elect).

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Sensationalist politically motivated new letters, rumours and vague accusations vs a little logic?
Well if that's what you want to put your trust in I guess I won't change your mind.

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Nope, I know where I stand. Take the guy who murdered his wife but then came over here... And then murdered a 14 year old. Or the burglar who came over here and then murdered an elderly couple... The list goes on. There's enough attacks by our own people without more coming in. I, for one, am much more in favour of the Australian system.

5246385 If you think that the telegraph, independent and new York times are "politically motivated" to support brexit, or that they are spreading 'rumours' and 'vague accusations' with those headlines, then I think you'll have to explain yourself a bit more.

5246391 So one or two violent guys came through? Okay. How many came through and started productive lives? How many would have died if they weren't admitted?

Honestly, I'm on the fence about this but I can't say I've heard many good arguments from those who want to block immigration and refugees from getting a fair chance at what they need.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the prospect of saving lives. But we can't provide for our own people and we're an island, we've only got limited room and limited resources. We can't give every single one of the immigrants a house, a job, and so on.

5246407 Most news papers are politically motivated these days, though I never said anything about any support for leaving the EU, just the on handling the refugee crisis.

specifically though? The Telegraph usually has links between it's editors and the leadership and the Conservative party leadership and tends to take a right wing stance including anti-immigration sentiments.

The Independent I can't say I know all that well but I can tell you that the leader of the Paris attacks was Fabien Clain and was of French nationality himself and his cohorts were all EU citizens from before the current Syrian refugee crisis and quite a few of them already wanted men, so yeah, vague and out of date accusations.

As for the New York Times being an American paper I'm a little suspect of their ability to accurately reach into European affairs but I'm a fairly open person. Regarding the article they cover it's true enough. The couple did attempt to enter the country claiming to be Syrian refugees... and they were caught. If we can catch the ones who do try I fail to see why we should condemn the rest who are in legitimate need of aid.

Like I said this is a bit of a tangent from the topic. I've already said my piece and opinion on the EU.

5246454 Ah, I thought you were specifically going on the point of this thread discussion.

That said, I looked at a couple of other telegraph posts, and appears that they do hold an anti-immigration consensus there. I can assume from this that you've read up this a lot more than me, so I've got to say I was wrong here!

5246435 Not able to provide for our own people? Last I checked there was a food surplus, supermarkets jump the gun a lot and end up throwing out grotesque amounts of food for trivial reasons. We could feed everyone but it seems too few people are willing to spare some for free. As for space, we already have around sixty million crammed onto our little island, a fifth the population of the USA... but Japan has over one hundred and twenty million and they only have about thirty percent more land mass. A few thousand, even a couple of tens of thousands of refugees, some of them even temporary isn't going to make too much difference to our problems now or in the future.

Jobs? Yes, a problem but not one that originates from having too many people. One I could probably start another tangent about but won't for now. (Though I will mention economical speaking immigration tends to be a good thing, though with some short term damage to job prospects.)

But like I said, I am on the fence and I will share why; I don't think perspective immigrants or refugees understand what they're getting when they ask to settle here, at least not enough of them. We have a culture that is fairly secular, openly accepting of those considered to be strange for various reasons (at least for the most part) and with an emphasis on freedom of speech, even when that speech might insult deeply held beliefs, important traditions or strongly held point of view. These things aren't as conmen in the Middle East and the culture shock might be disturbing to them and end painfully for a lot of people. I think we have responsibility as those far better off and better equipped to help them, I'm just not sure if this is the place for them as things stand.

5246486 No biggie. I tend not to trust news papers specifically but I like to keep broad contacts as far as keeping up with the world goes. On a side note, oddly enough I find satirical works to be the most honest, though not terribly informative.