3773461

I did, and I still don't agree with the analogy. Again, she was already living in a world where everything was ridiculously easy for the majority of the people living there. CHS, being a world just now slowly gaining magic, is the 'harder' levels. Because she actually had to work for what she's earned here instead of being the magic prodigy she was. She pretended at being friendly while in Equestria until she let her ego get ahead of her, at which point she ended up going to the human world. Now that she's actually trying to genuinely BE a nice person, she's having to actually work at it in a place where her ability to live up to what she's tried to become is something she'll never have to stop working at, whereas magic would come to her ridiculously easy, given how well she did at it before.

3773465

Getting a little defensive there, bud. You shouldn't be getting mad at someone for voicing their opinions and pointing out things that have been said while in a discussion about a subject.

Also telling me to just do what someone else says...really does not sit well with me. If I have my own opinions on something, I am well within my rights to speak those opinions. Trying to suppress me will do you no favors.

3773473 Yes, magic's easier to use in Equestria than at CHS, but don't video games usually start you off with crappy weapons/items before giving you better ones? Plus, there aren't crazy flesh-eating, soul-stealing monsters (or there are, but they're very rare by comparison) at every corner in the human world, and Sunset already knows a lot of the locals and she could experiment with the different types of people there (especially since they're counterparts/effigies of ponies she may meet in Equestria) and see what would work and what doesn't for later when she goes back so that she knows who to make friends with and who to avoid later on.

To me, Sunset spending time in the human world now seems like the equivalent of starting a new game so she can work back to where she was the right way. So thanks, Warwolf. Even if it was completely unintentional, you've reconstructed my vision of the human world from a death trap for unicorns to a proving ground for unicorns.

I still wish she just went back to Equestria, but now I think a little extra time in the human world wouldn't do much harm.

3772424
I agree. I want to see Sunset return to Equestria (and see her her in pony form again)!
Maybe come Season 5 or 6?
We can only hope, right?

3773500 Hey, I am just sticking up for my friend and sticking by him.

3773507

Enh, again, I don't really see it that way. There are games where you do start out with everything and then lose it and have to work your way up to getting back to that level again.

Castleviania: Symphony of the Night is a great example. Alucard starts out with incredible power and weapons, and loses all of them after what is effectively a tutorial stage, and has to work his way back to regaining all his lost powers.

I see Equestria as Sunset's tutorial stage. One where she failed. But since it's a tutorial, she's thrust right into the thick of it afterwards. Thus, the world of CHS is the world where she has to work to better herself and/or regain what she's lost.

3773578 Whatever, man. Why don't you (PLEASE!) just be grateful I now think that staying at CHS a little longer would be productive for Sunset Shimmer? Because I really don't want to argue any more than I have to.

3773606

Oh I never said it was a bad thing that you believed that. Just that I don't think your video game analogy fits.

3773614 Okay, yeah. I guess her stint as Celestia's student was one of those Symphony of the Night-esque tutorial levels, but CHS could still be the early levels, and (hypothetically) returning to Equestria would be the later levels that have all the harder obstacles, yet offer a wider variety of options, larger environments, and better weapons/items.

3773633

Mmm, I dunno. Given that they've revealed that the world where CHS is is slowly gaining magic, I'd still call that the main world of the game, while Equestria would be akin to either a place to meet up with a mentor character who passes along information, or a place like a store where you get new items/weapons. But that's just me.

3773657 Sounds like you're into Zelda-type adventure games, but even then I'd think ought to be the other way around. What I'm going with is a sandbox approach, because there are games like GTA where certain areas are cut off and certain features and items aren't available until you complete a certain number of missions.

The more I talk about this, the more I want someone to make an RPG or sandbox-type game with Sunset Shimmer as the protagonist that goes just like I described. It's just too good to pass up! XD

3773666

Never played GTA. Played Godfather though. I get the analogy, but I still don't think it fits, since again, the CHS world fits that better, what with that world gaining magic, while Equestria is a world she already knew very well since she was born there.

3773685 So would that make Sunset returning to Equestria the sequel/expansion/DLC? LOL.

3773704

Mm, kinda sorta. Again, I see her popping into Equestria as a short term thing at best, not a case where she'd return to Equestria while making her appearances at CHS the occasional thing.

3773753
*sighs*

Look, if you don't mind, I'd like to just drop this whole conversation right now. I've got other stuff to do, and I think this is as good as it's going to get. We have our opinions, so let's just cherish them and move on to something else. We've been at this for hours and it's starting to get off-topic anyhow. I don't want my newly-found optimism to be spoiled by further arguing.

3773756

I thought this was more a spirited discussion more than an argument. But ok.

3773243
No, I think it's a very fair comparison. First of all, how many times has Twilight returned to Canterlot since she moved to Ponyville? There was the gala, her birthday party, the wedding, a few times Celestia summoned her to help with a national disaster, her coronation, and the second Summer Sun Celebration. Basically, she only went there for big events and to deal with villains. As far as we can tell, aside from a few extraordinary circumstances, Twilight's only interaction with Canterlot at all were her letters to Celestia. It's been over a year since Twilight moved to Ponyville, and she probably hasn't been back to Canterlot for even a week in that time.
Now with Sunset, if anything, it's easier for her to return to Equestria now that Twilight can open the portal whenever she wants. All she has to do is just ask Twilight to open the portal, and then there you go.

But I still say that this is exactly like Twilight staying in Ponyville. After defeating Nightmare Moon, Twilight could have chosen to return to Canterlot and make new friends there. But she didn't want to because all she had in Canterlot were Celestia, her studies, and her family (though she probably didn't actually see her family much if she had no idea that Shining Armor and Cadance were engaged or dating), but in Ponyville she had her friends, who actually gave her something worth living for.
Now what does Sunset have in Equestria? Twilight and Celestia. And she can talk to Twilight whenever she wants to now, and we really have no idea of what her relationship with Celestia is actually like, but I would argue that nothing actually seems to suggest that they're that close anymore. But at CHS she has friends, she's probably seen as a hero now, and since she's been living there for several years, she must have some sort of life going for her.

So basically, Sunset returning to Equestria for anything more than a visit makes about as much sense as Twilight moving back to Canterlot.

3774005 Umm...I just made up my mind in the previous comments. Sorry, but you're a bit late to the punch.

3774010
Sorry, but I really didn't feel like reading though 50+ comments that, from what I did read, didn't seem to be getting anywhere and were using different arguments from me.

3773243
It is not a fair comparison because it is actually a lot easier for Sunset to get to Ponyville than it is for Twilight to get to Canterlot.

As I understand it, the portal is permanently open. All you have to do is walk to the front of the school and you are in Twilight's castle. It literally takes less than a 5 minutes, albeit you probably don't want to go through the bodily transformations on a regular basis.

3774662 Actually, I recall that the portal's only open when a magical object is channeling magic into it, and only from Twilight's side. And Twilight probably wouldn't want to keep the portal open all the time in case someone tries crossing through one side to the other that isn't supposed to. Plus, Sunset would have only that book to send messages to Twilight.

3774662
3774713

You're both kinda right. Supposedly the portal works at any time now because of the book that allows messages back and forth, since the CHS book's link to the Equestria book is always active, so as long as it's in the machine Twilight hooked up to it, it's always open. if it's not in the machine, then the portal opens up the way it would normally do so, which would be once every 30 moons. Unless Twilight is working on another means to open the thing.

However, when the portal IS open, anyone can walk through it. And given that Twilight has somehow acquired the mirror (which was last seen in the Crystal Empire, unless she just made her own....which is possible, now that I think about it.), anyone wanting to jump through the mirror to either world could do so whenever the portal is open, assuming they knew what to look for. Anyone from CHS can jump on through anytime they want, so long as the link is open. It might be a bit harder for ponies to do so since I don't know how open Twilight is with access to her new castle. But theoretically, if the portal was open and someone knew about it., they could very easily hop on through and go to the human world.

Though for all we know, channeling magic into the mirror with that machine she built the first time may have just wrenched the gateway open. There's just no real way to tell. However it IS easier to get to Ponyville via the portal than it is for Twilight to get to Canterlot. And quicker to boot.

3775088
3774662

But it doesn't hide the fact that Twilight's just one town away from Canterlot and there's tons of ways to travel between the two locations, whereas Sunset is in a completely different world that can only be accessed or exited by that one portal that can only be opened from one side (which makes it seem more like a vault than a proper doorway when you think about it). Time isn't a factor here, but space is.

If say, the train/railroads between Ponyville and Canterlot got wrecked, there'd still be other ways to get from Point A to Point B. You could walk/drive a cart along the roads, fly there if you're a pegasus or are in an airship, teleport there if you're an exceptionally skilled unicorn/alicorn, or climb up/down the mountain. It may take forever depending on how you do it, but it'd still be possible. But if something bad/unfortunate happened to the portal between the human world and Equestria, then no amount of walking, climbing, swimming, or flying would get you to the other world.

And that is why I don't think it's a fair comparison.

3775522

One thing you're forgetting. The portal itself would still exist. It would just require magic to open it, which means it would just need a new physical medium. We also know that if anything happened to the mirror, another could be created. We know this because Starswirl created at least two of them. One of which could go to multiple worlds, while another, one that is presumably somehow stable, is the one that leads to the world of CHS. So if anything, the portal to the human world is far more accessible, especially since the two books that maintain a magical link with one another across dimensions provides an easy way to find that world again if a new mirror needed to be created to give the gateway a physical medium to work. And all it would take is a good enough magician to cast the spell to create the new mirror and attune it to that reality.

3775670 That still sounds more complicated than just traveling from one town to the other. Which makes me wonder why Sunset Shimmer should have to deal with those "special" accommodations just for something as simple as making a few friends. Not to be pessimistic, but that just seems like more trouble than it's worth compared to Twilight moving to Ponyville.

3775689

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with it. Your beef was that if the portal were destroyed, Sunset would be stuck on the side of the portal she already chose to be on. I'm simply pointing out that trapping her on either side of it would be more difficult than you think.

3775789

And I'm trying to point out that magic on both sides or not, staying in/going to a completely separate world from the one you came from just to make friends sounds more impractical than simply moving to another town to make friends. I mean what if Sunset Shimmer did have a family in Equestria and they wanted to visit? Would it be easier for them if they just took a train from Baltimare/Vanhoover/wherever to Ponyville/Canterlot or if they followed some overly complicated magical process with a portal and get their bodies warped beyond recognition just to say "Hey!" to Sunset?

By the way, if there is a legit reason why Sunset would completely prefer staying in the human world to returning to Equestria, it's most likely this: Stockholm Syndrome.

She was stuck in the human world without the option to leave for so long that she probably developed an unhealthy psychological attachment to it, and couldn't imagine life back in Equestria being better because of it. In short, she was brainwashed by human society without realizing it.

Trust me, I've taken Psychology classes when I was in High School, and this sounds like the most fitting and logical reason. You see it happen a lot in people that served an extended period of time in prison or were stranded on an island for a long time without being rescued. They've been there so long, that even though they had a life outside, they don't want to go back now that they've spent such a long time in that isolated location, whether it was good for their health or not.

And when that happens, it might take someone else going out of their way to make them leave, plus the victim would need lots of therapy to get over the separation and function like they did before they were put in that isolated location.

I'd like Sunset to come back too but it probably wouldn't happen, or it'd just be for a day or too: all of her friends are in the humain world and it'd be the first time she talks to their equestrian equivalents, who probably didn't forgive her as much for trying to kill Twilight :/.

3775789 Read the comment I posted before this one.

3775802

Okay, firstly, no mention is ever made of Sunset's family. So on that, all we have is speculation.

Secondly, if we assume that the portal opens every two years, we have to assume that Sunset is somehow aware of this and/or can use the statue on the other side of the mirror to see what's happening in Equestria. We know that the mirror can show people things, so the mirrored surface at the base of the statue of CHS probably allows for the same. This would explain how and why Sunset learned of the return of the Elements of Harmony despite the portal still being closed. In short, Sunset knew how long the portal stayed open and as such went in to the human world fully aware of the fact that it would close behind her. If she did indeed know this, it would give her plan in Equestria Girls a base of logic to it. The plan was simple, yet would have been considerably sound: get the crown, go back to CHS, put the crown on, and then enslave its student (and possibly faculty) population to try to bring Equestria to its knees.

As such, no, I don't believe this to be any case of Stockholm Syndrome. (Which by the way indicates a sympathetic view of one's captor , not the place of imprisonment. And even then, she was never a prisoner.) She was clearly planning to go back to Equestria to conquer it. She in fact says as much at the climax of the film. So that blows that idea out of the water.

I have to say that at this point you seem to be grasping at any and all straws available to try to make it seem like Sunset was somehow coerced or otherwise forced into staying in the human world. Again, she's had multiple opportunities to leave, and the portal can be opened at will at this point. Yet she hasn't made any attempt to leave. This is by her own choice. Not because she's developed a mental condition or something. She's made that very clear. So you should stop complaining about her choice and respect it. Her choice is what it is in canon. If you want her to make a different choice in a fanfic, that's fine. But you shouldn't be complaining about the fact that she obviously made a very blatant choice in the canon.

3779156

You know I'm right. Just accept it. You're just being stubborn and butt-hurt because you want Sunset to have stayed in the human world of her own accord, and are using every last detail you can analyze to justify it.

3779188

Actually, no. I know you're wrong. And so do you. So you should accept it and move on. Again, she made her choice. Respect it. I don't need to justify her choice, because it was very clear that she made the choice she made.

3779192 You're the one grasping straws here, not me. You're literally throwing everything you can at me to get me to believe that Sunset Shimmer made her own choice to stay, yet I am still not convinced. Other than a Stockholm-esque mental attachment, nothing can justify a choice like that. At least not if the other choice is a quasi-paradise like Equestria. If Sunset actually was raised in the human world like Tarzan or Superman, she was a wanted fugitive with loads of enemies in Equestria that could easily kill her, or Equestria was a dying realm, then it'd make sense, but not if she only recently came to the human world from a world as enchanting and diverse as Equestria.

And even if she did choose to be there, it doesn't mean she should be there, or that she's staying for the right reasons.

3779281

Really? Look, seriously. She chose to go through the mirror. She chose to stay, and this was shown by the fact that despite all the times she could have gone back home, she did not.

And if Equestria is such a paradise, why does it need Elements of Harmony?

What it all boils down to is that Sunset stayed because she wanted to stay. And as such you should respect that choice and not try to make it sound like she chose wrongly based only on what you feel. You're you, and Sunset's Sunset. She made her choice, and clearly it's working out for her.

You'll never convince me she was somehow coerced into staying. And again, Stockholm Syndrome is the incorrect terminology there.

Simply put, I'm using the facts as the movies have shown them to point out what the films already told us. She chose to stay. You're the one trying to come up with reasons why you think she should have left or else was somehow forced to stay. So while one of us is backed up by canon, the other is not. And of the two of us, one of us is respecting the canon which clearly details that she made her choice, and the other is not. Which of us do you think is which?

3779348 Respecting canon is one thing, but blatantly ignoring its flaws is another. I like a lot of things about the show besides just Sunset Shimmer, but I'm still willing to accept there's stuff that's silly/stupid even by the standards of a kid's show, and acknowledge it when it comes along. Does it make me less of a fan for doing so? No. It shows that I'm smart and insightful, and not some fanatic that thinks the creators can do no wrong. Tell me, was there anything about the show/movies that troubled you (even a little) that nobody else seemed to mind?

I have actually been wondering the same thing! I totally agree that she should come back to Equestria.

3779381

To be honest, yes. But that's less to do with a character's choices and more to do with the behavior of the writers of the show.

Now again, you don't have to like the choices the character makes in canon. What you do have to do, is respect those choices because those are their choices. At least insofar as the canon itself goes. You may not like it, but you shouldn't try to say that how you feel about the canon should somehow invalidate the canon. Fanfics aren't canon by their very nature, whether or not you stay true to a character's personality in the fics. So if you want to claim she has stockholm syndrome in a fanfic, as much as the idea might seem silly and incorrectly termed, or even like someone nerdraging at the fact that a character didn't make a choice you wanted them to make, you can still do it in the fanfic.

In this case, it really does come off as a case of you nerdraging that Sunset made the choice to stay in the human world, and trying to come up with some kind of justification for why she should leave. Or at least for why she should want to leave. But again, look at the thread title. It's about how YOU want her to go back to Equestria. The problem is that even as far back as the first post in this thread, you're trying to say that Sunset SHOULD feel the same way as you do and tried to tell everyone ahead of time that they should ONLY agree with you. But the fact is that Sunset herself disagrees with you simply through the act of actually staying on the human side of the portal.

Again, if you want her to leave....do a fic about it. Cause at this point, I don't see her leaving (not permanently, at least) the human world anytime soon for Equestria in the canon.

3779533 Well guess what? Writers can always change their mind. Ever hear about the video game Fallout 3? It had an ending so stupid and had pissed so many people off that the developers made an entire expansion for the sole purpose of throwing that awful ending out the window. I'm not saying that Sunset Shimmer staying in the human world is as bad as that game's ending, but the point is that the writers can easily change their mind later and have her come back to Equestria anyway, if only for one episode of the show.

3779561

Fully possible, yes. However what I've been saying this whole time is that just because you didn't like the ending doesn't mean everyone else had to dislike it. I also never said she wouldn't pop back in for possible visits to Equestria. Just that I don't think she's ever going back to Equestria permanently, because she's chosen to stay on the CHS side of the mirror and make her home there.

3779566 All you've been saying is that Sunset has no interest in going back to Equestria, even if there's no evidence that supports it. That's what I've been trying to explain! I don't mind if she has more friends in the human world than in Equestria, or if the human world is where her residence can be found, but she shouldn't act like she's forgotten about Equestria, especially since that's where she actually came from. Hell, even Rainbow Dash considers Cloudsdale (where she came from) her home as much as she does Ponyville (where she currently lives), so why not Sunset Shimmer with the two worlds?

3779606

The main problem with that is that, again, if you look at the first post you made— and most of the posts you made thereafter— indicate that you want her to just return to Equestria for good, rather than popping over for an occasional visit. In effect, wanting her to forget about the human world altogether. That's the problem. She has obviously come to consider the human world her home, so saying she should just abandon it for Equestria runs counter to your comments about how Rainbow Dash considers both Cloudsdale and Ponyville to be home.

Bear in mind also that in real life, many people decide to call one place home over another and that this is often why they move. Now to be fair, I was born in New York City and have always considered the place my true home since it wasn't my choice to leave it, and if I ever get the chance, you can bet I'll go back, and I do visit now and again. But not every person feels the same way about every place they've ever lived. Sunset on the other hand, willingly chose to go to the world of CHS. As such, she's clearly come to favor it over Equestria. So yes, that is her home now. So I don't see her abandoning it to make a full time return to Equestria like you wanted. I do see her maybe coming over to visit once in awhile. I never said that.

I simply said she's not going to abandon the human world the way you wanted her to just to go back to Equestria.

3779625

Sunset Shimmer may be my favorite MLP character, but the idea of her staying in the human world for more than 50% of her time is a very stupid idea. If it was any other type of character, it would be fine, but why Sunset Shimmer? Just why?!?! She doesn't even seem like a character that belongs in the EQG universe, in-universe or meta! I mean Suri Polomare or Dr. Caballeron would've fit better than her, even though they weren't introduced until after the first EQG movie was released.

Yes, I said I wanted her to just go back to Equestria to stay, but I'm willing to come to a compromise. Besides, we're talking about completely different worlds not cities. I can understand if she just went to Fillydelphia or Baltimare or something, but not if she moved to a completely different world that Equestria's not only not a part of, but where Equestria's rules aren't even compatible. You turn into a human upon entry in that world, whether you wanted to or not. So that already takes away one of the freedoms you would have if you just stayed in Equestria: being yourself. And you'd have no choice but to live like a human, or else look like some freak that belongs in a mental institution.

Is it really worth putting up with that kind of crap and blowing any chance you had of living your dream in your native world just to make a few friends? If you had no friends in New York City, but found a portal to an alternate world where dogs were the dominant species and you're turned into a dog upon entering it and had all the impairments that come with being a dog, would you stay there and forget about NYC just because you found a couple of dogs that didn't mind being your friends?

3779692

Okay, let's take this one by the numbers.

Firstly, Sunset Shimmer is basically a 'film only' character, who lives in a separate world. They created her to be someone who despite her start in Equestria as part of her backstory, is designed to be a character who lives in the human world.

Not everyone turns into a human on the other side of the mirror, either. Spike, for example, turns into a dog. Even though we've seen that actual DOGS would turn into humans there. But that's a whole other can of worms.

Sunset, as stated before, has had ample opportunity to go home if she genuinely wanted to. Hell, she was even planning to CONQUER her home at one point. But afterwards, even when she had the chance, did not go back. We also know she could easily ask Twilight to open the gate to go home if she wanted. Since the portal does exist, it's essentially the same as being able to go there whenever she wants. Same as if you were going to take a vacation from New York to say, Los Angeles. In fact, she can do so far quicker since she just needs to jump through the gate.

The human world does work on rules similar to ours, yes. However with the introduction of Equestrian magic into the world of CHS, it's fully possible that Sunset may regain her ability to manipulate magic. We don't know what she might be able to do with magic as it continues to grow in that world. But we do know she grew up being able to utilize magic. So while the rules may have changed a bit, it doesn't make it impossible for her to live there with magic. And maybe she doesn't even care about magic overall anymore, given how much it messed her up when she finally got the power she claimed she wanted. While the portal may change the shape of the body, it does NOT change the shape of the mind. So Sunset is very much free to be herself, even if she's not in her original form. It certainly didn't stop Twilight or Spike from being themselves, after all. Nor did it stop the Sirens, who were sent to that world for that very purpose, and which as we know, failed miserably.

I think in this case, the application of the MST3K mantra may be of use to you here: It's all just a movie, you should really just relax.

3780132

Even though we've seen that actual DOGS would turn into humans there.

Okay, just when the actual HELL did that happen?

3780132 Okay, it looks like we're really not getting anywhere here. Let's just stop this argument now before we're out for each other's blood.

3780230

Those guys who help Rarity with the piano in the shorts that precede Rainbow Rocks? Those are the human counterparts of the Diamond Dogs, believe it or not, who kidnapped Rarity in a Dog and Pony Show. So yeah, we know that sentient dogs would turn into humans. This makes me wonder why sentient species such as a dragon are somehow relegated to pets. Spike is pretty much the baseline there.

3780253

Enh, I saw this more as a spirited debate than an actual argument, but whatever.

3780359 Oh, you were talking about the Diamond Dogs. I thought you were talking about normal dogs. Boy, I'm glad I was able to stop myself from flipping out at that part, or I would've just made myself look like an idiot.

Well, we've got our opinions on whether or not Sunset should stay or go, so let's respect them and just get on with our lives.

3780387

*shrugs* Fine by me.