Here's a question that I though about after Watching "It ain't easy being Brezzie" what are the limitations of magic in Equestria. For me in terms of storytelling magic is always a muguffin or contrivance in order to aid or hurt a character and keep the plot moving forward. I'm not saying I dislike magic not at all (Why would I watch the show if I didn't like magic) but I've always found it difficult to write magic and make it... not realistic...but regulated I guess is the best word. Magic should have rules and regulations on it in order to keep the world grounded. Well grounded for a fantasy setting at least and while Twilight's transformation spell didn't bother me since transformation spells are quite common in magical lore (Harry Potter being a good example of this) it got me thinking on how far the show should go with its magic. A great example would be using Discord, he has reality bending powers and abilities. A snap of the finger and crazy things happen .However I question on whether he (Or the Princesses Celestia and Luna for that matter) are limited in their magical abilities. Also I'm one of the few people who thinks Discord is not a god but rather just a really powerful magic user. For me at least my personal limits of magical abilities, meaning magic can only go up to this point is as follows. I think Magic should not bring people back from the dead or make people fall in love with you. (Hearts and Hooves days doesn't count since that love potion was a poison, it wasn't true love. Also I don't think Cadence makes people fall in love with you but rather takes away negative emotions.) More powerful spells require concentration and years of practive. (One reason why I like magic duel and the aging spell) .Time travel is another limit for but I'm pretty liberal in terms of using Time Travel spells (Because Harry Potter had one in Prisoner of Azkaban with the Hourglass thing) as long as they are difficult to use and not something taken lightly then I think you can get away with it. And Finally my big thing when it comes to using magic...It should always come with a price. (Once Upon a Time reference) .So what are some of your limits of magic and how far do you think the show should take it in terms of Twilight's or any other magical users abilities.

3135282
I tend to use Fullmetal Alchemist as part of my basis of magic (with some Harry Potter, Discworld, Avatar, and Golden Sun thrown in for flavor). I have magic bound by the Laws of Physics, magic has to follow the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, and the Laws of Thermodynamics. I consider that a fairly practical limit on things

As seen in canon in MLP, magic appears in really only two forms. I like to call them Natural magic and Affective magic. The mechanics are pretty sketchy, but that's the way they've been writing magic.

Natural magic manifests in biology. Maud Pie, I have a hard time accenting, but basically shows that earth ponies have magic, but of a natural, biological kind. She can harden her hooves enough to drill rock and has extreme strength. Pegasi also have this in the fact that they can fly and can handle clouds.

Affective magic is the use of magic powers to create an affect, such as the movement of cosmic bodies, time travel, aging, reversal of physical laws, telekinesis and teleportation. Affective magic specifically depends on several things:
1) Power
2) Knowledge
3) Talent
4) Dedication/Discipline
5) Creativity

Let's compare Trixie and Twilight: Trixie lacks power, knowledge and discipline, but excels at talent and creativity, as shown when she purchases the Alicorn amulet which provides her with raw power. Twilight, on the other hoof, excels in raw power, knowledge, talent and dedication. She lacks creativity, often only performing magic that she has read about, researched or experienced before, although she can be creative in her application of magic.

Also, let's examine Twilight's progress in the series: in the very first episode, she teleports past Nightmare Moon to the old elements of harmony crystals. She rubs her head as if the teleport was painful, but in subsequent episodes where she uses teleportation, she no longer experiences the strain. Thus, we know that with practice, at least, one's magic can improve, as long as one's raw power can enact said magic.

That's why we rarely see other unicorns performing more than telekinesis; they just don't have the talent, interest, discipline or power to pull off more.

Magic in MLP canon tends to not be of the incantation sort of spell, but rather seems to be attempting to dip into your personal pool of magic to create a desired effect.

Discord, who has tremendous raw power, talent, knowledge and creativity, lacks discipline. He only seems to use it for his own entertainment, and doesn't bother doing more.

We do know that they have potion making, at which Zecora is a master and we've seen it in Twilight Time, and also can create relics as in the Alicorn Amulet.

3135282

I can be fine with magic that makes less physics sense and relies on poetic sense, like pegasi roosting on clouds, but I'm a balance freak in universe design and critique.

(Things like wanting dragons to be small enough that a band of warriors would have some faint resemblence of a fighting chance against one and a general aversion to anything invadilating traditional combat.)

I wouldn't have let magic be anywhere near as strong as it is in MLP, personally, aside perhaps the
Elements of Harmony.

Keeping levels of power and capabilities to a reasonable scale in important in any setting, or they risk trivializing much of it.
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I borrow some headcanon from FO:E on Telekinesis that it mostly makes the thing weigh less and applies limited force on it, though MLP canon shows Twilight, an extremely powerful unicorn, can apply more force.

(I wouldn't go as far as Kkat takes magic in it, though.)

I also take the headcanon that Unicorns are limited to magic relating to their special talent, with the rare exception of the special talent being a broader range of magic.

I also go with Earth Ponies having a more innate physical magic such as 3136638 says with a potential for something like druidic magic, though in my headcanon their disconnect with nature within civilization and loss of knowledge makes that rarer.

There just has to be something magical about Pegasus flight for it to get as rediculous as it does...and I wouldn't go as far as MLP does with the limits.
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Were I asked to change it, I'd make Twilight a not particularly powerful unicorn with a normal limited range of spells, teleporting chief among them, but emphasize her smarts to solve problems.

I'd also tone down Rainbow's speed into something that wouldn't require jet propulsion while maintaining her status as a very fast flier- emphasizing skill in flying more than absurdly superior ability.

(For better or worse, it would be a cold day in hell for me to design something as overpowered and free to act as Discord.)

3136638
3188611
It has been said by Ms. Faust that Earth Ponies do have magic, so in a way it has been confirmed by canon back in S1/2. Along their enhanced strength and "green hoof" I do add one more thing to an EP's magics, they are the best natural magic sensors you can find. They can feel the flow of magic through the environment in such a way that that it would take an unicorn years to train in order to do what a Earth Pony foal can sense.

Unicorns can actively use magic, while Pegasi and Earth Ponies have passive magic. Alicorns are a mix of all three. But no matter what it is still confined by their innate tales and elemental alignment.

The show doesn't really provide much consistency when it comes to magic although they have made one very clear border. The amount of raw magic powers available to one individual. Most normal unicorns can only do levitation and usually one spell that connects to their cutie mark.

Twilight has a much greater raw magic reservoir at her disposal. As seen in "Cutiemark Chronicles" Twilight had some very high magic burst outs which she over time learned to weave into spells. The reason Twilight was capable of doing so may big spells was, not just because she a lot of training, but because she had much more energy at her disposal.

Another sign that all ponies have finite raw magic powers is seen in "A Canterlot Wedding" where Celestia and Chrysalis fight each other. They both use a very basic spell where they just channel raw magic power through a directed beam. The only variable here is the amount of energy being used. This proves that both Celestia and Chrysalis has a much higher raw power level,

All other boundaries I don't think I can think of any. This is probably the only barrier shown in the show, so I wouldn't get to much into specific detail about spells themselves as non of that is canon and mostly speculation.

I do however like to think, as 3135433 said, that the actually power needed to perform a spell is the same is there would be needed in real life physics. Levitation requires just as much energy as holding something in you hand so that spell isn't very costly. Things like teleportation and transformation requires moving and rearranging molecules so they are very costly to use.

If I had to make some details about the spells themselves I like to separate them into two categories. Passive and active spells. Active spells are the ones used by unicorns as they actively need to cast the spell in order to use it. Passive spells are spells that doesn't require conscious thought to use and maintain. Pegasi's ability to walk on clouds and earth ponies connection to the nature is passive spells. The magic plants in the forrest that Zecora uses are holding passive spells.

btw. OP. I don't consider Discord a god nor a magic wielder. I think of him as a personification of chaos and magic itself.

3135282 You can't create life unless you have proper alchemical training or Discord-level powers. similarly, there's a size limit. Celestia can only nudge the sun at close to sunrise or sunset, but isn't powerful enough to do more than that.

similarly, group magic can be used to move large objects, such as a population of changelings moving an entire castle through the air.

3135282 I will use my necromantic powers to bring this thread back to life!

In my headcanon (which is heavily influenced by Darren Shan's Demonata series, LOTRO's Runekeepers, and a dash of my own originality) MAGIC! works like a battery, sort of. You need to charge and recharge, and you need to do so with the help of Runestones, or these basically huge rock things that glow and make humming noises.

A unicorn, and basically anyone, can charge up on the MAGIC!al energy stored within these stones, which is finite, never forget. Once the unicorn, or anyone, has had their fill of the MAGIC! he/she can use MAGIC! as he/she pleases, until the charge runs out, after which he/she would need to recharge.

Rock farms actually specialize in finding these Runestones, which are vital to the survival of Pony Civilization. Thus, Rock Farming is actually fairly lucrative. Think of it like finding oil.

The fun part is that not everyone can use the MAGIC! in the same way. Unicorns can use it very directly, while Pegasi need it to fly, Earth Ponies need it to be excellent at growing food/being super-strong, and other races utilize them in different ways. Ex: Zebras use the MAGICS! to help with potion brewing.

Wat think?

3135282 3135433 3238394 3238442

I'd say the limits of magic have everything to do with science because magic, as I've always believed, is the manipulation of quantum fields. Let me explain.

There was an episode of Iron Man Armored Adventures, which doesn't use magic, had Doctor Doom appear. Now for those of you who don't know, Doctor Doom uses armor like Iron Man and is a brilliant scientist. However in the comics, and some cartoon adaptations, he's also a skilled magician and uses magic.

Now in the episode he appeared in they didn't just say his powers came from his armor, they went a step further and explained that his "magic" was actually quantum fields that he was manipulating with his armor. In other words he was creating magic, being able to do things that to anyone else would appear to be magic like summon tornadoes, lightning from his hands, teleportation, etc.

Magic, as a general term, DOES exist as it simply means that its a force not many can understand. A mysterious force that causes things to happen. Quantum Field manipulation, as it stands, isn't something many can understand and would be easier for a lot of people to call it what it looks like which is magic.