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Impossible Numbers


"Gather ye rosebuds while ye may, Old Time is still a-flying, And this same flower that smiles today, Tomorrow will be dying."

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Sep
2nd
2021

Equestria Girls Special: "Sunset's Backstage Pass" Under the Spotlight · 8:43pm Sep 2nd, 2021

Blog Number 148: "The Cool One and the Zany One" Edition

Yes! Now we're talking!

I could honestly stop the review here: one look at the screenshot, and you'll know why I like it.


Before we talk about all the ways Sunset Pie is awesome and incredible and everything I didn't even know I wanted from Equestria Girls but am really glad I got... let's talk about the Main Six for a mo.

Yeah, you notice who's not in this special? Much?

To be brutally honest, the "AU humanized cast" concept reads a lot like an easy emotional shortcut. Go back to the first movie: we've got a whole human AU here, but why create an entirely new cast of characters from scratch when you've got the old one in the recycle bin? Why not nab the automatic goodwill carried over from the existing pony show? Or just do an AU that's actually interesting?

Read one way, it's a simple way to convey the point that friendship transcends universes. Read another way, it's a fanfic cheat to help save time developing anything fresh.

Hence we get a rinse-and-repeat of the pony series premiere, except without much challenge because Twilight already knows these crazy mares/girls can be friends, so this is inevitably going to work out well. I'm not cynical enough to say that was the actual backstage plan, but it's hard to look at the copy-paste worldbuilding result without thinking along those lines.

(Actually, I'm being generous calling the first movie a "rinse-and-repeat of the pony series premiere": they don't even get their individual elemental moments till the third movie).

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. For the most part, the EQG Six (well, Five really, but bear with me a sec) function as a single entity, a cast herd who orbit Sunset, Twilight, or Sci-Twi while themselves mostly reminding us of their individual gimmicks or juggling a single plot point between them. The advantage is that, well, we can focus on Sunset, Twilight, or Sci-Twi, all without getting bogged down in subplots and side character arcs.

I mean good ones.

Once we're past the high-scope plots of the first few movies, though, and have entered a more relaxed and flexible period in the EQG franchise, it's a bit more obvious the rest of the cast doesn't have the gravitational pull needed. They basically serve as sideshows. "Dance Magic" I think was the first major example, wherein we mostly got a modest rehash of "Rarity Takes Manehattan" without the meaningful drama. "Movie Magic" was basically a Scooby-Doo lark, "Rollercoaster of Friendship" didn't really delve into the RariJack beyond "they broke up, they made up", and it's fair to say "Forgotten Friendship" - while having an in-universe justification for keeping the EQG Six out of the picture - did way more for Trixie of all people than it did for them.

(I'm not complaining too much, mind, because the focus on Sunset, Twilight, and Sci-Twi is very good).

Then we get to "Sunset's Backstage Pass", and at first glance it looks like it fits the pattern. The Time Twirler plot is unravelled mostly by Sunset with Twilight's help, and Pinkie's contributions often fall under the "funny stuff off to the side" category. What's different this time is that this doesn't overshadow or compete with the relationship drama the same way it (arguably) did for "Rollercoaster", or focus chiefly on the individual horror and desperation of Sunset the same way it did for "Forgotten". This time, the funny stuff off to the side is front-and-centre, top-to-bottom, start-to-finish the actual point of the special.

I really, really wish they'd done the "Sunset + One Main Six character focus" idea more often, because holy guacamole! :pinkiehappy:

Creepy doll aside, this is breaking my heart.



The Sunset Pie (yes, I'm calling them that, because "the Dynamic Duo" was already taken) really is the heart and soul of this special, and one of the most obvious signs of that is PostCrush.

"Rollercoaster of Friendship" was tame compared to this screenshot.

A common criticism I see hurled at PostCrush is that - as villains - they're pretty lame, especially compared to showstoppers like the Dazzlings.

There's a very simple reason for this: they're not villains.

Understanding their function is key. The first and most obvious point is that they're foils to the heroes, which doesn't by itself qualify them for villainy. The comparison is made unambiguously clear early on: Sunset and Pinkie map themselves onto K-Lo and Su-Z within the first few minutes of the special.

Also, though PostCrush are the genuine instigators of the plot, both duos find themselves in the same boat. We're not here to marvel at the scope and depth of K-Lo's diabolicality: we're here to judge the duos, compared and contrasted, specifically by how they handle the loop. PostCrush are the cautionary tale, the ones who need to be enlightened after Sunset Pie learn from their own reckless mistakes.

Enlightenment: the real reason why Pinkie Pie has a third eye. :ajsmug:

The second, subtler point is that their motives aren't really nefarious. Selfish and short-sighted, definitely - make no mistake, they are jerks - and it's true that repeating the same day over and over without anyone else's consent (and pettily perma-banning the two most likely to stop it) is a seriously bad idea. But we're a long way from the anti-human callousness of Vignette Valencia or the deeply hostile spite of Wallflower Blush. Comparing them to the Dazzlings is a mug's game, but then who said we ought to?

For one thing, who's harmed by the loop? Each day is no more painful for anyone than it would've been anyway, Sunset's guitar-whacked butt notwithstanding. For another, they're not stealing anything from anyone's soul like emotions or memories. For a third, the result they're aiming for is so mundane. They're legitimate musicians putting on a show for fans, and they want to get it right. If they'd accomplished their goal on the third try, literally nothing of consequence would've happened except that Sunset would have some very confused memories and no one else would be harmed, deprived of anything, or really any the wiser.

Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd see in any of my reviews: "Sunset's guitar-whacked butt".

The third, basic point is that the focus isn't on what they're doing to the heroes (which itself is a narrative side effect), but to their own internal struggle. K-Lo's the most driven (to somewhat selfish extremes) and obsessed with doing things right, while Su-Z's the one who's clearly loving and ditzy yet is upset by all the repetition because it's no longer fun.

Replace "K-Lo" with "Sunset" and "Su-Z" with "Pinkie", and give or take a few tweaks, we're really not far off (well... Pinkie's sort of upset by Sunset's attitude here and there). I think this is the real takeaway from what little we see of PostCrush: not "Oh, so they're the lamer versions of the Dazzlings", but "Oh, so they're the lamer versions of Sunset Pie".

Which admittedly sounded better in my head. You know what I'm trying to say, though, right?

Therefore, the word we want here is not "villain", but - at best - "antagonist", more along the lines of Lightning Dust and Iron Will than Nightmare Moon and Queen Chrysalis. Although honestly I prefer the original "foil" as the term closer to the truth, since PostCrush barely even antagonize Sunset Pie, and that's for a couple of scenes at the end.

So, after all that, what do I think? Of them? As characters?

Well... OK.

"That's it? After all that? What, are you serious?"

As much as I like the parallelism that invites further dot-joining, it is sort of a version of the "AU humanized cast" trick I was talking about earlier: that's why Sunset Pie is the focus of so much of the special, and thus ends up doing most of the dramatic heavy-lifting. However narratively inevitable the final showdown was, it's also why PostCrush feels almost like an afterthought.

Another downside is that we only really get a thumbnail sketch of two personalities who simply don't have the showstopping presence of ambitious villains like Adagio, Aria, and Sonata (who in their debut got their songs right on the first try every time). Which is probably why the Dazzlings being red herrings with a few good lines left more of an impression than the outright "villains" managed.

It clearly wasn't pandering: after all, who puts in the taco reference but not the fruit punch one!?

I don't think they're bad, by any means. They fit into the pattern of the story well, have their own look, feel like they could be comfortably developed further, evoke a little pathos in their somewhat misguided-but-still-good intentions, and are distinct and decent enough characters to provide some entertainment. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to expand on them in a fanfic. And, as I already indicated, they contribute indirectly to the strength of what is the central attraction, which is tons and tons of Sunset Pie.

Also, the song is admittedly killer.

🎵I'm not joking: I had this thing on a loop when I wrote the whole review. I'm probably still listening to it.🎵


Now, back to what it's really all about: tons and tons of Sunset Pie!

I haven't got anything witty to say: this is just bloody adorable. :heart:

What really makes this work is the "warts and all" approach to the relationship. This isn't just two buddies hanging out for nearly an hour, or two "buddies" torn apart by an external conflict that's Obviously WrongTM. This is two buddies having to come to terms with the fact that they're on different wavelengths, will upset each other, and get their wires crossed, and that's OK, because it's the fires from which their friendship's forged and strengthened.

Pinkie gets on Sunset's nerves not because PostCrush is manipulating her or pushing her out of her normal zone, but because she's Pinkie. That means running around like a child, having a three-second attention span, and not immediately picking up on the fact that Sunset's temper is about to blow.

It's hard to fault Pinkie for this mentality, either: they both went to Starswirled to have fun, and in the absence of any higher stakes, a fun-fun-fun attitude is swimming in its element. Keeping her sympathetic is that she plainly does notice the problem and tries to resist here and there, plus the fact that she's so damn loving towards Sunset it's heartbreaking.

"You deserve to have a good day, Sunset." No matter how many time loops I personally go through, this line will get me every time.

We can say the same broad thing for Sunset Shimmer, give-or-take alterations of an "insert-word-here" nature. In her case, we've still got remnants of the self-interested hothead from way back, and however much Sunset Shimmer is redemption done right, I love the idea that she's still carrying some leftover flaws around.

See, it's not being flawless that makes her compelling, but watching her struggle through those flaws. It's her being awesome about it. Ditching Pinkie for a concert is easily the nastiest thing she's done in a long time, but we've not only seen her good side for umpteen adventures - enough to see this as a lapse - we've also seen the frustration that makes the move understandable, even as we're shaking our heads going: "What the hell, Sunset?"

Thing is, Sunset is a bit more complicated. Her various reactions to the day's events and to the time loop attest to that. It's the clever effect of the time loop plot that it's basically a controlled character experiment: with everything else staying the same, we get our clearest exploration of one character and their reactions to it, and Sunset goes through a fair few. Confusion, impatience, boredom, self-absorbed bliss, guilt, curiosity, desperation, resentment, realization, and giddy enthusiasm. Quite a range we get out of a basic slice-of-life scene mixed with one magical gimmick.

Emotions: Sunset could take on all the roles for Inside Out, and I wouldn't complain at all.

(The interesting thing is that Sunset takes a long time to apologize to Pinkie Pie, and it doesn't immediately fix things. We probably don't even need the explicit apology: just watching Sunset and Pinkie's reactions to each other speaks volumes. Look at the lengths Sunset goes to after the Dazzling confrontation, and her expressions of guilt throughout the special).

It reminds me a lot of "Legend of Everfree", except more focused and less prone to drifting off and seeing what the rest of the Main Six are doing. That movie was focused on Sci-Twi and Sunset getting a feel for how far they can trust and be trusted by each other, and one of the few Equestria Girls media to acknowledge that reformations aren't a quick patch at the end of an ep, but a long-term commitment. A matter of care and patience, not a quick bit of character brain surgery.

We get exactly that here, and that's why I wanted to see this sort of thing more often. Just because Sunset and Pinkie start and end as friends, doesn't mean they get to slack off in-between. We see them deal with the rough patches in their friendship, and that, the sheer relentless goodwill even in the midst of a crisis, really gets to the heart of the show, in all its gush-worthy glory.

It's just so pure in its intentions here, with everything else - plot points, surrounding cast, setting and concept - feeding it or giving it room to breathe rather than smothering it.

And that's why "Sunset's Backstage Pass" is one of my favourite Equestria Girls specials. 🎵 A true, true original.🎵

Seriously, I am never getting that song out of my head. :rainbowderp:

All for one, one for all, and three for the price of two!


But OK, let's talk about miscellaneous:

  • The Time Twirler really does not compare well to the Memory Stone. The latter had an actual attempt at backstory. The former, though? Whether for pacing reasons or because they just didn't want to do the whole "Forgotten Friendship" thing twice, they're not even trying.
  • That said, the eye design on it is freaky. Seriously, who the hell made that thing?
  • That that said, I like the effect of it opening and bursting with light each time K-Lo touched it. Very distinctive, and nicely creepy.
  • The Security Guard is hilarious. Takes his job way too seriously, then melts at the first sign of a kitten. He's a great comic side character, and I could easily imagine him popping up in other apparently unrelated locations.
  • So yeah, the Dazzlings. I like their guest appearance, not just as a curtain call, but also as a sort of closure/confirmation of their fate. It's kind of sad to see them resigned to their fall from grace rather than doing much about it (tell me someone as driven as Adagio wouldn't be up to something evil down the road), but she gets arguably the single best line in the whole thing: "What I'm saying is we already get a do-over with every new day. It's called living life." 😈
  • I also love the detail that their voices have to be processed now. Nice bit of continuity there.
  • Speaking of continuity, I see Wallflower made a new friend in the background. Derpy and Wallflower: now there's an odd friendship, all right.
  • Starswirled? Really? Such an odd way to reference a pony character. Did the rapping he committed in the comics have a hand in that?
  • I like the little detail of K-Lo losing the guitar pick to Sunset, which turns up later in the montage (I think) as one of the reasons PostCrush considered that concert imperfect.
  • Seriously, though, Sunset should've learned to dodge Rainbow's guitar sooner. How many whacks did she take?
  • Arguably best line out of context: "In your face, mud!" :rainbowlaugh:
  • One thing that felt a bit off was when Sunset got thrown out of the festival despite doing nothing wrong. In one instance, she actively tried to stop Pinkie wrecking the churro stand. How is that fair?
  • Also kinda find it iffy when the Security Guard lets them back in at the end. Whether or not he personally thought the girls were OK, you'd think he'd be professional enough to do what he was told. Besides, it's not like he witnessed what happened between Sunset Pie and PostCrush.
  • However, it would be remiss of me not to admit that I loved this exchange just when Sunset Pie are about to break back in:
    Security Guard: So I thought, "Hey, self, these gals aren't crazy fans. They're just fans. And they didn't do anything... illegal."
    Pinkie Pie: Weren't about to, either!
  • Odd how the chef at the music festival churro stand is the same one from the Lux Deluxe Cruise. That sinking ship must have really set her back.
  • I'm with Sunset: those churros sound horrible. :pinkiesick: Doesn't help I can't stand tough food. Though I do like how they're set up as a Chekhov's Gun, only to be rendered null and void by the Security Guard's last-minute change of heart.
  • As much as I've been avoiding comparisons to Groundhog Day (someone else can do it), it's nigh-inevitable when we get to the "Are you a witch?" scene. That's oddly the bit I remember the most from the movie, apart from the suicidal car crash bit (Guess which bit I was thinking of when Sunset went nuts and drove the RV?).
  • Have to admit I got confused by whether or not Pinkie was also immune to the time loop effect. Initially I thought she wasn't, but I swear later on she already knows about it without being prompted (like during the scene before Twilight copy-pastes the Time Turner - sorry, Time Twirler - design to them). That could just be the editing, though...
  • Speaking of Twilight, I like the understated Sci-Twi contributions, introducing the concept of the time loop and later making a very bad "deja vu" joke.
  • You can pretty much fall in love with Sunset Pie from the first scene, when they pull off the odd art shift just to explain who K-Lo and Su-Z are. Pinkie got Sunset's sass, Sunset got Pinkie's excitement, it's adorably infectious! :heart:
  • Ooh, I like the maze design, with the neon lights strewn along the hedges and into a rosebud shape. It's a simple little scenery design, but I dig it.
  • Sunset leaving "breadcrumb" candies is pretty funny, but what makes it more hilarious is when - in a later time loop - Pinkie comes out to watch.
  • I'm confused as to when the time loop starts in earnest. The beginning indicates the magic really kicked off near the end of the first day, when Sunset's moping on the hill over the festival. Yet K-Lo's memory flashback makes it clear "tomorrow has to be perfect", which suggests they found it the day prior. So what was the flash of light Sunset saw? If it's when the Time Twirler activates, why do we only see it the once, and why doesn't Sunset pick up on the pattern?
  • Look at the montage of imperfections - things that go wrong - in K-Lo's memory flashback. Now count how many different things went wrong each time. Yeesh, this concert was riding a hell of a disaster curve, wasn't it?
  • One possible counter to my "they're not villains" argument is the bit where K-Lo responds to Sunset's "never perfect" speech by claiming they'll never stop looping. I think it's framed too much like a spur-of-the-moment petty comeback to be a legitimate threat, but that's practically a permanent time stop, and there I would absolutely draw the line. 😡
  • Er... how does the Time Twirler go into one CD player and pop out of another? I'm pretty sure they don't work like that.
  • I did consider complaining about yet another "easy redemption" for PostCrush, but that's a criticism I usually reserve for obvious villains, and I refer you to my argument above. Given how simple the problem turned out to be, I think I'll give it a pass anyway. It's no deep psychological dive, but then these two aren't deep psychological characters, so there you have it.
  • The weird thing about the Dazzlings is that, despite how they arguably should feel thrown in for easy fandom points, their scene actually works real well on its own terms. Partly because one of their strengths was bullying in the first place, and partly because Adagio manages to be menacing even when giving a simple "life sucks" speech.
  • I've mentioned before that I'd consider this a superb finale to the Equestria Girls series (in fact, "Forgotten Friendship" would make an excellent series finale, not least because it's explicitly reminiscent and nostalgic from pretty much the first opening number onwards). One obvious reason I'd nominate "Sunset's Backstage Pass" is because of the emphasis on friendship, even if only between two characters rather than the whole cast. Another is because the antagonists being divas seems oddly appropriate an ending note for the Rainbooms. And a third is simply because it's such a joyful episode to go out on. I really do feel good after watching it. :twilightsmile:

Well, that's all for now. "Sunset's Backstage Pass" was great fun to watch, and I hope you've enjoyed this review, and possibly those of the other EQGs too. The last near-half-day has been the longest quick review of my life. :scootangel:

That's all for now. Impossible Numbers, out! (But hopefully not for long: stay tuned, folks!) :raritywink:

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Comments ( 7 )

A matter of care and patience, not a quick bit of character brain surgery.

Never mind the bit of rainbow laser brain surgery at the end, as opposed to Twilight making peace with the part of her that actually wants to understand and explore magic, grumble grumble...

But yeah, very good analysis of this one. My guess with the Time Twirler is that it's yet another item Star Swirl tossed into the human world. Possibly one he made, then disposed of when he realized it could actually be used to alter history. And yeah, it does feel like Adagio shouldn't take her defeat lying down as much as she seems to, but we don't know what she has planned long-term...

Oh, and final note on this being a suitable finale: As with the first movie, the climax involves Sunset Shimmer tussling with several other people while trying to grab a magical artifact. Bookends!

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Never mind the bit of rainbow laser brain surgery at the end, as opposed to Twilight making peace with the part of her that actually wants to understand and explore magic, grumble grumble...

That last bit I honestly wish had been an ongoing element for Sci-Twi...

But yeah, very good analysis of this one. My guess with the Time Twirler is that it's yet another item Star Swirl tossed into the human world. Possibly one he made, then disposed of when he realized it could actually be used to alter history.

Heh, the Equestria Girls universe as Star Swirl's dumpster. :trollestia:

It could also have been one of Clover's other trials. Like master, like apprentice, after all.

And yeah, it does feel like Adagio shouldn't take her defeat lying down as much as she seems to, but we don't know what she has planned long-term...

Forget Sci-Twi becoming interested in magic: why wouldn't the Dazzlings do so? If they'd found the Memory Stone before Wallflower Blush, they'd have been devastating opponents.

Oh, and final note on this being a suitable finale: As with the first movie, the climax involves Sunset Shimmer tussling with several other people while trying to grab a magical artifact. Bookends!

Good point. :ajsmug: Although if we're talking bookends, how about: Sunset breaks into an enemy's living quarters, attempts to steal an item of great magical power off them, does so because she's convinced it doesn't belong to them, watches it ricochet around in improbable ways, and ends up having a harder time of it because she trips at the wrong moment?

I really, really wish they'd done the "Sunset + One Main Six character focus" idea more often, because holy guacamole! :pinkiehappy:

Sunset's relative level headiness does make a good spring board for the rest of the groups zaniness.

Although I do like the rest of the "Human Five's" interactions, and the "Slice of Life" stuff they get up to on the side. I actually enjoy the shorts (compared to most of the movies) for that reason.

"Dance Magic" I think was the first major example, wherein we mostly got a modest rehash of "Rarity Takes Manehattan" without the meaningful drama.

The main show of MLP shined best character wise in Slice of Life or creating action shots. Because EQG was mostly Slice of Life, that equated to drama.

I think in Dance Magic (as in other areas) they were relucted to show the characters at odds with one another, and it limited the story they could tell.

Not helping was the fact that it was both shorter then the typical special, and also had to contend with juggling the Shadow Bolts as foils for the Main Six.

I personally think they would've worked better as supporting characters for some of the shorts, given how we last left them. Kind of like the role Flim and Flam or Zephyr Breeze served in the Seasonal Shorts. Or maybe a cameo like the Sirens.

Either way, the special wasn't long enough to both flesh them out, and give other characters the screen time they desperately needed, to both set up the plot with high enough stakes, and resolve it adequately.

Creepy doll aside, this is breaking my heart.

Eh, looks surprisingly good, for something Pinkie must've stitched together in a few hours.

Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd see in my review: "Sunset's guitar-whacked butt".

Honestly it looks more like a actual paddle to me. Which begs the question why Rainbow Dash is carrying one around. Was she planning on going rafting, or does she just carry sports memorable everywhere she goes? That would've been cool to explore some more.

Which is probably why the Dazzlings being red herrings with a few good lines left more of an impression than the outright "villains" managed.

They proberbly could've used the Dazzlings as the villains and had it work just as well, but I did like Post-Crush as characters, and the parallels that you brought up between them are interesting (I honestly never thought of them that way before, but I see it now).

Plus it's nice to see the Dazzlings settled down and be acceptive of their fate (even if I would've characterized their individual interactions somewhat differently).

That means running around like a child, having a three-second attention span, and not immediately picking up on the fact that Sunset's temper is about to blow.

A bit exaggerated perhaps, but better done then in "Trivia Trot".

It's hard to fault Pinkie for this mentality, either: they both went to Starswirled to have fun, and in the absence of any higher stakes, a fun-fun-fun attitude is swimming in its element. Keeping her sympathetic is that she plainly does notice the problem and tries to resist here and there, plus the fact that she's so damn loving towards Sunset it's heartbreaking.

This. This is why this episode worked, and "Trivia Trot" did not.

camo.fimfiction.net/fTY83SVT1fsOZazLT54J6fMIlo2_Oin685MoG-4b2jE?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fmlp%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff8%2FSunset_feeling_a_little_ashamed_EGSBP.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20200106055916

Pouty Sunset Shimmer is just Too Darn Cute!

We probably don't even need the explicit apology: just watching Sunset and Pinkie's reactions to each other speaks volumes.

I like that they put it in though because it sums up what their feeling in a way that makes it feel more genuine. It's how you know that someone else knows their in the wrong and I'm glad they communicated it here, rather then never brining it up, the way they did in Season 8.

  • That said, the eye design on it is freaky. Seriously, who the hell made that thing?

Starswirl the Bearded probably. We know he was studying time travel in the past with a very similar spell on display as evidence. It makes sense if the Time Twirler was a refined version of those early attempts at time travel.

(tell me someone as driven as Adagio wouldn't be up to something evil down the road),

True but that's more or less referenced by Aria's line about them calling dibs if any new Equestrian Magic shows up.

They've not entirely given up on the whole world domination thing, but neither are they going to exhaust themselves too hard to reach that point, which fits the Sirens in character laziness quite well.

  • Speaking of continuity, I see Wallflower made a new friend in the background. Derpy and Wallflower: now there's an odd friendship, all right.

I do love these references where they show past characters doing their own thing in the background. A great way to reference past continuity, and to show that the creators remembered what came before and are willing to think about how they use the models when working them in.

  • I like the little detail of K-Lo losing the guitar pick to Sunset, which turns up later in the montage (I think) as one of the reasons PostCrush considered that concert imperfect.

Probably one of this best callbacks in the series if I'm being honest. (At least I think that's the definition of a callback.)

  • Seriously, though, Sunset should've learned to dodge Rainbow's guitar sooner. How many whacks did she take?

In fairness, she did just wake up.

  • One thing that felt a bit off was when Sunset got thrown out of the festival despite doing nothing wrong. In one instance, she actively tried to stop Pinkie wrecking the churro stand. How is that fair?

I know right? You'd hope someone would notice and cry foul.

Also kinda find it iffy when the Security Guard lets them back in at the end. Whether or not he personally thought the girls were OK, you'd think he'd be professional enough to do what he was told. Besides, it's not like he witnessed what happened between Sunset Pie and PostCrush.

Perhaps. But they needed the plot to happen. Plus it turned out to be a good thing he did. Ultimately the fact that he didn't see what went down, makes it even more questionable that they were barred from the event. I was more bothered that he let them in because of a bribe, then the fact that he let them in at all.

Security Guard: So I thought, "Hey, self, these gals aren't crazy fans. They're just fans. And they didn't do anything... illegal."
Pinkie Pie: Weren't about to, either!

That comes across as such a red flag: I honestly thought they might get kicked out after that, and wind up vaulting over the wall, with the help of Rainbow Dash or something.

  • Odd how the chef at the music festival churro stand is the same one from the Lux Deluxe Cruise. That sinking ship must have really set her back.

It is curious to be sure but I honestly didn't think much of it. The cruse line would've lost a tone of money with that ship; it makes sense they'd be hard pressed to keep those employees on the pay role. And that assumes she wasn't just temporarily working there in the first place.

Initially I thought she wasn't, but I swear later on she already knows about it without being prompted (like during the scene before Twilight copy-pastes the Time Turner design to them).

It was proberbly a reference to her ability to know stuff she had no possible way of knowing, like in the first Equestria Girls movie.

If it's when the Time Twirler activates, why do we only see it the once, and why doesn't Sunset pick up on the pattern?

Possibly because when she does see it she's higher up on the hill overlooking all the acts including the stage where Post Crush was performing and in all the other loops she's at ground level. That's just a theory though.

As for why it takes so long for time to reset for her, your guess is as good as mine. Same with the reason as to why she was immune to the time loop in the first place.

I think it's framed too much like a spur-of-the-moment petty comeback to be a legitimate threat, but that's practically a permanent time stop, and there I would absolutely draw the line. 😡

Well it's both petty and a obvious escalation of what Sunset said. Humans have a tendency to let others lead them to respond in kind, without thinking much about it.

More likely she meant they would never stop until they got the loop perfect, and she believes, or is trying desperately to convivence herself that it is still a attenable goal.

Basically she would loop forever if that's what it took, but she doesn't really believe it will get that far; the fact that they back down pretty quickly, gives attentional weight to this idea.

I did consider complaining about yet another "easy redemption" for PostCrush, but that's a criticism I usually reserve for obvious villains, and I refer you to my argument above.

I never did get the easy redemption argument myself as it pertains to this show, but maybe that's just because I've rarely seen one that wasn't easy inside of the show itself.

Let's be honest, both Sunset Shimmer and Luna were redeemed with ridiculous ease, and they are only the first in their respective series. There are plenty more blatant examples throughout both series.

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Honestly it looks more like a actual paddle to me. Which begs the question why Rainbow Dash is carrying one around.

Huh, I'm wondering what that thing is now. I just thought "guitar".

This. This is why this episode worked, and "Trivia Trot" did not.

Not just worked, but shone. This is such a sweet, lovely special. :scootangel:

Pouty Sunset Shimmer is just Too Darn Cute!

Sunset is simply great, isn't she? Character, design, and on so many other levels. I'd have loved to see her make an appearance in the main pony series, and not just for her rapport with the rest of the cast.

I like that they put it in though because it sums up what their feeling in a way that makes it feel more genuine. It's how you know that someone else knows their in the wrong and I'm glad they communicated it here, rather then never brining it up, the way they did in Season 8.

That's perfectly fair. I was making the point that it would still work tremendously well because of other factors shining through.

Starswirl the Bearded probably. We know he was studying time travel in the past with a very similar spell on display as evidence. It makes sense if the Time Twirler was a refined version of those early attempts at time travel.

Heh, that's two for two for the "Star Swirl did it" theory. Imagine if it was some completely unsuspected pony, like Princess Luna trying magical experiments, or Doc finally getting his time machine working (and miniaturized!).

I do love these references where they show past characters doing their own thing in the background. A great way to reference past continuity, and to show that the creators remembered what came before and are willing to think about how they use the models when working them in.

They are great, aren't they? I remember noticing the Shadowbolts making cameos in "Rollercoaster of Friendship", and of course there are consistent cast herds in the school itself. Although I always appreciate a good Derpy cameo too, and she gets plenty of those.

I know right? You'd hope someone would notice and cry foul.

To be fair, it's probably for the same reason the Security Guard lets them back in later: the plot requires Sunset to get mad at Pinkie, and guilt by association takes care of the rest. Interesting, then, how he's willing to give them both the benefit of the doubt later. Could be a character note.

It was proberbly a reference to her ability to know stuff she had no possible way of knowing, like in the first Equestria Girls movie.

Good point! I hadn't even thought of that.

Same with the reason as to why she was immune to the time loop in the first place.

My own guess is that Sunset was the first to mess with Equestrian Magic, and you don't get bigger messes than when you try wielding the Element of Magic itself. Perhaps it bends the rules around her as a result, though it clearly doesn't exempt her completely (otherwise effects like Vignette's phone and Wallflower's Memory Stone wouldn't work on her at all).

Basically she would loop forever if that's what it took, but she doesn't really believe it will get that far; the fact that they back down pretty quickly, gives attentional weight to this idea.

Yes, that's my suspicion too. An actual permanent time loop would be counterproductive to her goal, and it is such an odd-one-out line in context, regardless.

I never did get the easy redemption argument myself as it pertains to this show, but maybe that's just because I've rarely seen one that wasn't easy inside of the show itself.

I love me a good redemption arc, but even discounting the fact that so many characters get redeemed across the show (which feels excessive), the vast majority of them feel either rushed or unearned to me. Even the good ones feel a bit too pat, here and there.

Sunset's in the first movie is no exception, though I love how Rainbow Rocks made it work retroactively. With cases like Luna's, I'm willing to give (at least to some degree) the benefit of the doubt when it's implied dramatic magical corruption was involved. That usually has an obvious and massive hand in distorting their minds well beyond what's normal (Sci-Twi is an excellent example of that).

I could probably write a whole blog post about this topic: suffice it to say, the use of redemption in this show is a mixed bag for me.

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I'd have loved to see her make an appearance in the main pony series, and not just for her rapport with the rest of the cast.

I can't tell if they held off on using Sunset in the show, because they were afraid of ticking off people who didn't like Equestria Girls, or if they just genuinely missed a trick, but it certainly would've been cool to see Sunset Shimmer in a more expanded capacity.

I was making the point that it would still work tremendously well because of other factors shining through.

Perhaps, but after episodes like School Daze and Marks For Effort, I was just glad for a apology that felt genuine.

Heh, that's two for two for the "Star Swirl did it" theory. Imagine if it was some completely unsuspected pony, like Princess Luna trying magical experiments, or Doc finally getting his time machine working (and miniaturized!).

Perhaps, those are certainly valid theories.

But since Starswirl is the only one in the series that we know is capable of making magical artifacts (including his own journal, which shares artistic choices with the Time Twirler's design) and since he is the most prominent experimenter of time travel magic* Starswirl remains the best bet.

*We have no idea how far along the doc is, and Starlight basically skipped over the experimental phase altogether, and into a working prototype.

They are great, aren't they?

Indeed they are. I remember seeing Wallflower Blush and Juniper Montage in their cameo roles and thinking how nice it was that they showed up again.

Even if it was merely a way to save on drawing new characters, the fact that Juniper appears at the mall and in uniform, at least shows they were paying attention to events of the specials.

Perhaps it bends the rules around her as a result, though it clearly doesn't exempt her completely (otherwise effects like Vignette's phone and Wallflower's Memory Stone wouldn't work on her at all).

Certainly plausible, and proberbly better then my theory. I assumed it was because she wasn't native to this dimension.

I love me a good redemption arc, but even discounting the fact that so many characters get redeemed across the show (which feels excessive), the vast majority of them feel either rushed or unearned to me. Even the good ones feel a bit too pat, here and there.

Perhaps. I don't mind a excess of characters being forgiven, nearly as much as I mind the quality of redemptions, which (for me) is more about how moving it is, how believable their reasoning is, and how much I like the character on their own merits.

As far as initial face heel moments go, I can't think of many shows I've seen where it isn't done instantaneously. The follow up may be more drawn out, but it's rare you get as much as a episode of consistent, well done, character growth, in their initial turn from good to evil.

Discord was a example whose reformation wasn't all that believable at first, because he was a skilled liar, who shot down much more genuine, and advantageous overtures from Pinkie Pie. While "Twilight's Kingdom" fit in terms of "Keep Calm and Flutter On", it still didn't work that well in comparison to "The Return Of Harmony".

And although Rainbow Rocks did a great job at making Sunset Shimmer likeable as a character, it's actually a pretty lackluster story, in terms of explaining her heel face turn. It's more written from the perspective of Sunset being spontaneously good now, rather then addressing how that happened.

With cases like Luna's, I'm willing to give (at least to some degree) the benefit of the doubt when it's implied dramatic magical corruption was involved.

It didn't really resolve Luna's personal issues though. She still tried to outshine her sister by blocking out the sun, and she still clearly has issues with her image when we see her again.

The fact that it is so easy for her to go crazy through the use of magic, and the fact that her image issues are never fully dealt with, makes her power even more problematic, when looked at in the context of what she might or might not do further on down the road.

And while it's touched on and addressed indirectly a couple of times, we never really see her realize her issues fully, or take any successful steps to resolve her situation.

That usually has an obvious and massive hand in distorting their minds well beyond what's normal (Sci-Twi is an excellent example of that).

True but Sci-Twi, Glorissa Daisy, Juniper Montage, Sunset Shimmer, and Luna all retain the same motivations under the influence of magic (even if their thinking or perceptions are compromised).

And as we see in the "Legend of Everfree" Twilight is no longer motivated by a obsession with magic, and it's strongly implied that her obsession was a substitute for the friendship she was lacking.

"The Legend of Everfree" further shows that she's grown out of her need for magic, and that (ultimately) she can handle it, when it comes roaring back into her life.

Luna never really got that closure, the sense that she could handle her problems without resorting to magic, or overly dramatic measures.

I don't even necessarily have a problem with Luna's reformation, but on the face of it, it's pretty weak from a story perspective.

This special is odd. Odd in the way the whole thing is slanted in Pinkie Pie's favor.

Pinkie spends a lot of her screentime here messing everything up, but reprimanding her about this is treated as an act of wanton cruelty. Pinkie Pie's habit of running off in pursuit of random things causes Sunset to get frustrated and angry, but the special treats this as unacceptable behaviour. Getting thrown out of a concert you really wanted to see feels like a justifiable reason to get mad, but the writers seem to disagree. Apparently, Pinkie Pie should be allowed to do whatever she wants, but Sunset is not allowed to tell her off, not even when the result of Pinkie's actions is a disaster.

So, in a nutshell: when Sunset makes Pinkie sad, it's Sunset's fault. But when Pinkie makes Sunset angry, it's also Sunset's fault. Wait, what?

Now, it's okay for characters to behave badly in the course of telling a story, as long as the offending character apologizes, learns their lesson, or suffers some kind of comeuppance.

For some reason, Pinkie is exempt from any of this. Look at what the story considers to be the moment of reconciliation between Sunset and Pinkie. The only way for Sunset to "win" is to let Pinkie do all the things she wants to do. Sunset has to abandon the ONE THING she wanted, while letting Pinkie do EVERYTHING she wants.

I really don't understand why the whole thing is so one-sided. It's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.

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Sunset has to abandon the ONE THING she wanted, while letting Pinkie do EVERYTHING she wants.

Technically she does go to the concert, so she does kind of win in that regard. But yeah, it's still biased. This unfortunately, is nothing new for MLP. Still, while the story is slanted, it is still better written overall than similar episodes (especially in the later seasons).

First off it shows Sunset see the concert enjoy it, and latter becoming disillusioned with for her "best day ever". This ties into what Sunset tells Post Crush: that experiences are best enjoyed with your friends. It's not a perfect delivery, but it's better then some.

There's also the fact that Pinkie Pie does notice Sunset's frustrations and steps aside, so Sunset can have her ideal day without Pinkie Pie getting in the way, showing that Pinkie Pie actually does care about Sunset and doesn't want to drag her down.

Also it's Sunset who makes the choice to hang out with Pinkie Pie. Yeah she feels guilty, but ultimately the decision to hang out with Pinkie is hers, not the Dazzling's, or even the Rainboom's. And it says something that Sunset made that decision, without even a plan to break the loop first.

Personally I think that Sunset was well characterized, and her frustration was totally understandable: even though she had to learn something, she was still a person, not just some symbol for the writers to deface. And Pinkie was well written enough, to the point of being somewhat likeable.

In the end they pulled off something I don't think many of the Season 8 writers were able to do; they made their protagonists likeable, even the ones who wound up learning something. I think this episode was a win in that regard.

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