Geek boy, aspiring writer, and proud Brony with a story to tell.
Just a heads-up for those following me but not following RQK, but Sunrunner and her parents have made a small appearance in the latest chapter to their story, Divergence.
Go read this story, and its prequels! They're fantastic, and the Quiververse might make a nod to them in the future!
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Ooh, interesting! I'll have to check this out
I read that when it came out and was jumping with excitement. I can't wait to see what nods you end up making.
Please don't. It's bad enough that A Shimmering New Year was ruined - and possibly the Quiververse itself damaged, if Faire's claims of being needed to stop the Nightmare were accurate - by changing it into a side-story to Reflections. We don't need to see things get worse because of yet another AU being given power over your stories.
5030556
Well, we'll see what happens. A lot of stuff is still vague at this point.
5030556
If I may ask how did it ruin A Shimmering New Year? How is a reference to another AU giving it power over his stories?
5030937
On the surface, it was a mistake on its own. Introducing a character from another AU altogether that previously had no connection to the story right at the climax just to have them participate in the climax is poor form in and of itself. It's made worse by what it accomplishes - namely, it distracts from what was supposed to be Sunset's first true step towards recovery by putting the focus on Faire and changes the battle from being Sunset's triumph to Faire's triumph, while adding nothing of value to the story. Things get even worse when you consider the implications. There are two possibilities: either Faire's claims that she was needed to defeat the Nightmare were accurate (which changes to the battle from the original suggest), or they weren't (which has no in-universe indication, but Echo had once told me via PM... which I can't prove, unless Echo himself confirms it). If the latter were true, then doing all of the above was completely pointless, and that's the lesser of the two evils here. If Faire was right, then the story's alterations mean that in the Quiververse, the forces of evil are more powerful than the forces of good, and the latter are dependent on a character from an entirely different AU to save them. And it indirectly makes Faire, not the main characters, the hero of every Quiververse story from now on, since without her, Twilight, Luna, and the Rainbooms would all be dead, and Sunset would either be dead alongside them, or the Nightmare's newest host. In addition, consider: a story where, in the original version, things are handled by the previously established characters is altered to make them unable to triumph so an OC can come out of nowhere to effortlessly provide a solution and save the day where the canon heroes fail. That's the basic formula for a Mary Sue fic - which A Shimmering New Year now is if Faire is right. And again, aside from a single bit of Word of God that was never made publicly available (and thus the existence of which can't be proven by anyone but Echo himself), all data - and all in-universe data regardless - points to Faire being right.
After consideration, I may have jumped the gun on that comment. I wrote that in the assumption that the events of that AU would be made canon to the Quiververse, which would make the author of that AU able to influence the events of the Quiververse with their writing (and, given that the author of that AU is also the author of Reflections, and that he used the first Q&A session to gloat over the fact that Faire is the hero of A Shimmering New Year now, assuming that he'd abuse that potential doesn't look like an unreasonable assumption to me). If the planned reference is just a reference, and not what I'm fearing above, then my objection can be ignored.
5030954
...I did gloat a little, didn’t I? Yeah... I should not have done that.
I’ve admittedly thought about this sort of thing from time to time. And I do have to agree to an extent. I mean, obviously, the reason I like it is because someone actually thinks something I did was cool enough to do stuff with it themselves. I feel like I’ve contributed something in that case. But yeah, the form leaves something to be desired, essentially for all the reasons you described. It makes sense if you’re a Reflections person looking in, but the other way around? Not so much.
Also yeah, the most Echo could do with this other AU is a nod. Anything more than that would be a super bad idea. So we’re in agreement there too.
And as far as the implications go, looking at it through the lens of Quiververse-folk, both readers such as yourself and in-universe characters, yeah, this doesn’t feel good. Reflections kinda touches on this aspect of her being needed for things, but only for a bit at the beginning. In this case, let’s try looking at this from a probabilistic standpoint (because reality is inheritly probabilistic); there should be infinitely many Quiververses where this chain of events played out. We can say that Sunset and company being able to take care of things on their own happens in a majority of them, because they are capable people and they are greater than the forces of evil. We just happened to see one of the few scenarios where they didn’t. That’s just the nature of probability.
It’s my understanding that Echo wants to clear this up, based on conversations we’ve had. And I agree; it’s a good idea to give the heroes of the Quiververse their due agency. So, with any luck, future material will make people happy~
5031000
First off, I owe you an apology. I had assumed that, if you even bothered to respond here at all, it would be to taunt me over this matter, and definitely not concede I had a point. Obviously, I was wrong about you. So I'm sorry for assuming the worst of you.
However...
Considering that none of these hypothetical others that could handle things on their own are actually canon, and the one where evil is apparently superior actually is, that doesn't help things at all. It's reassuring that you at least want to make things right, but as long as the above is true, that's impossible, because the above is by far the biggest problem. The only way to mitigate the damage and to keep it contained to just A Shimmering New Year would be to somehow, be it by retcon or by future installment (and I have no idea how the latter could work), establish that Crystal Faire's interference was completely, utterly, 100% unnecessary.
5031016
It’s cool.
I have to disagree. That just changes the problem from you have a thing taking away agency to a thing being actual dead weight to the story. That doesn’t feel good either, especially since there have been repercussions in later stories. The only actual way to do this would be to revert the story to its original form, before she was retconned in. That doesn’t seem feasible at this point.
And I’ve been introduced to the Quiververse through these dealings, and I want to see where its stars go. But I can also say I would be a very sad panda if it was a 100% deal. So... can we do 98%?
5031020
Unfortunately, it's a binary situation. Either Crystal Faire wasn't needed, or evil would have won without her; there's no possible in-between.
5031022
Then we evidently don’t see things in the same way. Let’s just agree to disagree, then~
5030954
I see your points and mostly agree with them. In fact I shared a few of them before you even mentioned them.
One thing where I don't agree is because Crystal was the one who helped it became all about her. Reading the scenario I look at it this way. The only significance that Crystal played was added strength to the shield Luna had up protecting everybody. That is something that the other Twilight or even the Quiververse Celestia could have been there for. Crystal is a replaceable character in the scenario for any other pony that could apply sufficient magical strength to the shield. Thus had it been anypony else like say Celestia from the Quiververse would it still have been about Celestia rather than a big moment for Sunset and the Rainbooms? I don't think so. Even if the story still said that without them they would have failed. Crystal just happened to insist that she be the one taken as the extra strength for the shield. Thus the role of having an extra to boost the strength of the shield is what is important and who it was doesn't matter so long as they can provide sufficient strength.
Edit: In regards to evil beating good in this case I only think it possible because Twilight was too caught up in her own guilt in this scenario when in most she wasn't. It is a what if scenario of life that plays out here. This one happens to need to have somepony else be there to help Luna with the shield.
The other I don't agree upon is your stance that adding or mentioning another AU at a particular moment is poor form. I agree fully that it can be bad if not done right. However I also think it could be absolutely brilliant if done right. This one, I think, falls in the middle.
That said every reason that I don't agree with you is fully dependent on Crystal being replaceable in the role she plays but not the role itself.
Thanks for explaining.
5031176
That comment so completely missed the point that the only way I can make sense of it is if you think that the current version of A Shimmering New Year is the only one that's existed. If that really is the case, know this: the story from chapter seven onwards is not in its original form. In the original, there was no intervention from Faire, nor any other connection to Reflections at all, and the native heroes were able to triumph on their own. The story was rewritten with a more powerful Nightmare purely so that Faire could come waltzing in out of nowhere to save the Quiververse natives from otherwise certain defeat - and thus, yes, stealing the spotlight and claiming the status of hero for herself. There were some other changes to other chapters, but the ones not attached to Reflections were neutral-to-positive in their impact.
5030954
I don't think it's possible to be more on point.
5031211
...Wow. That's a big oof, as the kids say.
5031211
No. You clearly missed my point. Case in point you thinking that I think that this is the only version that existed. I also think it would be easier to just say my opinion on the entire matter rather than potentially run in circles trying to explain things. It would be better if I were to make sure that we are on the same page and then say a few things.
I agree that Crystal playing hero was bad. I also agree her inclusion into the story was done poorly. She showed up and immediately played a big role. The entire thing was, in my opinion, poorly done. That said I'm going to break a few things down.
The need for a second to strengthen Luna's shield protecting everyone from the nightmare is a writers decision and there really is no issue with it from a pure writing perspective. Thus there is nothing wrong with this being the case. Case in point Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep showed Luna needed help from the Mane 6 dealing with the Tantabus that she created to punish herself when it got too powerful for her to control. Thus the logic for needing a second is actually rather sound from that point of view. As a result debating if a second was needed is a pointless one to make. A second being there to help in of itself does not change anything in regards to the story. Hence me saying what I did in my prior reply. This is what that reply was about.
The fact that Crystal is the one that fills it by randomly showing up from out of nowhere and plays hero is the problem. The fact that a second is needed to strengthen Luna's shield is not a relevant factor in why Crystal's appearance is an issue. That said she still could have been involved in the story in a more low key manner by being included earlier and by being more an advisor. For example she could have been the therapist that came in and only advised Luna that she might want to take another, like say Celestia, just in case. Less distraction and doesn't play hero. Can it be argued that the second was created just for her? Absolutely. However I would point out that, based upon canon, a second would have been needed if the story were to have been considered accurate and true to canon. That said I would have avoided it being Crystal.
As I said I largely agree with what you said. That said I also realize that with better planning and writing her inclusion could have been done much better without being much of a distraction or taking away from the story or even changing what largely went on in the story. That said I don't think her inclusion goes so far as to destroy the story or take it over as much as you say. She doesn't actively beat the nightmare fragment herself. That said that is pretty much the only thing that kept her inclusion from ruining the story in my mind. Thus the way she participated ended up taking away from the story however she still left it up to Sunset to beat it. To me it did severely dull the moment for Sunset however it didn't completely ruin it. It was something akin to a Pyrrhic victory in that sense.
Ultimately better planning and execution of the idea would have made it possible to include Crystal without her being a distraction and avoiding her taking away from Sunset's story and it could have been done without much change to the story.